British

Being half English,half Welsh,i have always considered myself British,and very proud of my country most of the time,but every now and then a story breaks which leaves me in total contempt of the spineless morons who lead this great country of mine,apparently,yesterday 7 brave British soldiers were arrested for murder,was it the case that these soldiers crept into a Afghan village under the cover of darkness and massacred the villagers...answer No,was it the case that these British soldiers shot and killed Talaban terrorists in cold blood after the scum had surrended.....answer No,what we are told the reason for their arrest for murder was that they broke the rules of engagement,i kidd you not....what kind of rules of engagement are being forced on our brave servicemen and women for Gods sake that leaves them open to the charge of murder in moments of combat, i would just love it, to have these gutless,spineless morons who dreampt up these crazy rules of engagement placed on the front line in Afghanistan,i was going to say for a week,but i doubt they could hack it even for a day

News agency are claiming the insurgents had surrendered and were then shot......not sure how true that is

http://news.sky.com/story/996601/seven- ... han-murder

Normally these cowards open fire, then when someone fires back, or they think the soldiers might fire back, they throw down their weapons and say they were not involved or just walk away pretending they were not involved.

F*****g raghead cowards all of them.

All they are interested in now is compensation money and propaganda, it is nothingto do with justice.

If this can happen and the soldiers can get arrested for it then the tali's have won already. For too long our soldiers have been hindered by rules of engagement (having to see someone you KNOW is enemy with a weapon in his hand and firing at you before you start engaging for instance) and there have been times when people have died because they seean enemy but aren't allowed to engage because he isn't firing at them. It's bullshit. And you're exactly right, the taliban will fire on civi's or troops then as soon as our lads retaliate they drop their weapons and pretend they weren't involved... I don't give a shit if they surrendered, they should all be shot on the spot. Those marines did the right thing and the biritsh public should be backing them 100%.

In fact just read that 7 members of their company (I think it was company anyway) were killed during that tour. They lose good mates and then when they want to get back at the taliban they get arrested. Gobshite.

If we weren't there in the first place none of this shit would have happenned.

Same old, same old.....decent guys getting busted for politicians sound bites.

And why are we in Afghanistan? I've tried to justify a good reason but it escapes me!

It beggars belief. Our soldiers should be backed to the hilt. It is a war zone. They should be earning top money for risking their lives, not worried that they could get tried for murder. I could f*cking scream blood sometimes when i hear things like this. Honour our warriors, not punish them.

Shoot anything that moves

Shoot anything that moves

Especially the ones that live in caravans

Shouldnt have been there in the first place....

Cracking post Chief

Shoot anything that moves

Especially the ones that live in caravans

Your making light of this why?

A good mate R.I.P, served with the welsh guards, was telling me about there rules of engagement and how pathetic it was for over there, because there not fighting an army, they haven't a clue who the enemy is, they hate training the afghan army/police, just so happens it was because of the idiot they was training he lost his life.
A lot of good this will do to the morale of the boys over there, politics and war don't mix, maybe they they should spend a few weeks at a forward base and go out on patrols

If we weren't there in the first place none of this shit would have happenned.

Same old, same old.....decent guys getting busted for politicians sound bites.

And why are we in Afghanistan? I've tried to justify a good reason but it escapes me!

Massive amount of minerals have been found in the mountain range near the Pakistani border.

Oh and cause of Russia (in my humble opinion).

It beggars belief. Our soldiers should be backed to the hilt. It is a war zone. They should be earning top money for risking their lives, not worried that they could get tried for murder. I could f*cking scream blood sometimes when i hear things like this. Honour our warriors, not punish them.

A good mate R.I.P, served with the welsh guards, was telling me about there rules of engagement and how pathetic it was for over there, because there not fighting an army, they haven't a clue who the enemy is, they hate training the afghan army/police, just so happens it was because of the idiot they was training he lost his life.
A lot of good this will do to the morale of the boys over there, politics and war don't mix, maybe they they should spend a few weeks at a forward base and go out on patrols

Whats politics got to do with anything, these are the rules of engagement set out by the military for the military. They were arrested by the Royal Military Police, who have seen a fair bit of action in their time. Thousands of troops have managed to operate within the rules of engagement. However much respect I have for our Royal Marines and trust me I do, if these individuals have broken the law they deserve to be punished. If you have killed someone outside the rules of engagement its an unlawful killing and can be charged with murder. Thousands of hours of training is put in by these guys to ensure they dont break the rules of engagement.
Nothing to do with politics its military law, law which has stood the test of time tried and tested. Its kept our troops safe in very dangerous circumstances throughout history.

A good mate R.I.P, served with the welsh guards, was telling me about there rules of engagement and how pathetic it was for over there, because there not fighting an army, they haven't a clue who the enemy is, they hate training the afghan army/police, just so happens it was because of the idiot they was training he lost his life.
A lot of good this will do to the morale of the boys over there, politics and war don't mix, maybe they they should spend a few weeks at a forward base and go out on patrols

Whats politics got to do with anything, these are the rules of engagement set out by the military for the military. They were arrested by the Royal Military Police, who have seen a fair bit of action in their time. Thousands of troops have managed to operate within the rules of engagement. However much respect I have for our Royal Marines and trust me I do, if these individuals have broken the law they deserve to be punished. If you have killed someone outside the rules of engagement its an unlawful killing and can be charged with murder. Thousands of hours of training is put in by these guys to ensure they dont break the rules of engagement.
Nothing to do with politics its military law, law which has stood the test of time tried and tested. Its kept our troops safe in very dangerous circumstances throughout history.

......do you think the taliban insurgents use rules of engagement. ? Please get a grip.

Being half English,half Welsh,i have always considered myself British,and very proud of my country most of the time,but every now and then a story breaks which leaves me in total contempt of the spineless morons who lead this great country of mine,apparently,yesterday 7 brave British soldiers were arrested for murder,was it the case that these soldiers crept into a Afghan village under the cover of darkness and massacred the villagers...answer No,was it the case that these British soldiers shot and killed Talaban terrorists in cold blood after the scum had surrended.....answer No,what we are told the reason for their arrest for murder was that they broke the rules of engagement,i kidd you not....what kind of rules of engagement are being forced on our brave servicemen and women for Gods sake that leaves them open to the charge of murder in moments of combat, i would just love it, to have these gutless,spineless morons who dreampt up these crazy rules of engagement placed on the front line in Afghanistan,i was going to say for a week,but i doubt they could hack it even for a day

so easy to be judgemental -

if these ppl could apply context to their decision making then maybe we'd be moving towards being the great nation we think we are.

after considering the 'context' of the charges, are the wise still happy to condemn (while in their 3 bed semis) ....

i'm guessing they are still outraged

as they will be outraged that waitrose offer up a 2009 red from venezuela


this country, my country, should always fight the good fight

A good mate R.I.P, served with the welsh guards, was telling me about there rules of engagement and how pathetic it was for over there, because there not fighting an army, they haven't a clue who the enemy is, they hate training the afghan army/police, just so happens it was because of the idiot they was training he lost his life.
A lot of good this will do to the morale of the boys over there, politics and war don't mix, maybe they they should spend a few weeks at a forward base and go out on patrols

Whats politics got to do with anything, these are the rules of engagement set out by the military for the military. They were arrested by the Royal Military Police, who have seen a fair bit of action in their time. Thousands of troops have managed to operate within the rules of engagement. However much respect I have for our Royal Marines and trust me I do, if these individuals have broken the law they deserve to be punished. If you have killed someone outside the rules of engagement its an unlawful killing and can be charged with murder. Thousands of hours of training is put in by these guys to ensure they dont break the rules of engagement.
Nothing to do with politics its military law, law which has stood the test of time tried and tested. Its kept our troops safe in very dangerous circumstances throughout history.

......do you think the taliban insurgents use rules of engagement. ? Please get a grip.

No they dont and I doubt they ever will but we have standards and those standards need to be maintained, if we lose those standards we lose the right to judge others based on those standards. If you accept that British troops can and are allowed to murder people including insurgents and deem the rules of engagement void, we lose the right to label insurgents as murderers themselves. When you sign up you know the standard you have to maintain and if you cant meet that standard you have no right being there.
Nobody said it is easy but thats why this countries Armed Forces have the best reputation in the world. Not because we fight the hardest, or we have the best equipment or we have the largest military, its because our standards are the best in the world and our training is the best in the world. If these Marines are guilty they forgot that training and they forgot that standard and as soon as they did that they lost the right to be named a Royal Marine Commando because other Commandos have been in worse situations and managed not to murder anyone.

A good mate R.I.P, served with the welsh guards, was telling me about there rules of engagement and how pathetic it was for over there, because there not fighting an army, they haven't a clue who the enemy is, they hate training the afghan army/police, just so happens it was because of the idiot they was training he lost his life.
A lot of good this will do to the morale of the boys over there, politics and war don't mix, maybe they they should spend a few weeks at a forward base and go out on patrols

Whats politics got to do with anything, these are the rules of engagement set out by the military for the military. They were arrested by the Royal Military Police, who have seen a fair bit of action in their time. Thousands of troops have managed to operate within the rules of engagement. However much respect I have for our Royal Marines and trust me I do, if these individuals have broken the law they deserve to be punished. If you have killed someone outside the rules of engagement its an unlawful killing and can be charged with murder. Thousands of hours of training is put in by these guys to ensure they dont break the rules of engagement.
Nothing to do with politics its military law, law which has stood the test of time tried and tested. Its kept our troops safe in very dangerous circumstances throughout history.

......do you think the taliban insurgents use rules of engagement. ? Please get a grip.

No they dont and I doubt they ever will but we have standards and those standards need to be maintained, if we lose those standards we lose the right to judge others based on those standards. If you accept that British troops can and are allowed to murder people including insurgents and deem the rules of engagement void, we lose the right to label insurgents as murderers themselves. When you sign up you know the standard you have to maintain and if you cant meet that standard you have no right being there.
Nobody said it is easy but thats why this countries Armed Forces have the best reputation in the world. Not because we fight the hardest, or we have the best equipment or we have the largest military, its because our standards are the best in the world and our training is the best in the world. If these Marines are guilty they forgot that training and they forgot that standard and as soon as they did that they lost the right to be named a Royal Marine Commando because other Commandos have been in worse situations and managed not to murder anyone.

Do you know what those 'rules of engagement' are?? NO? Thought Not!!

The United States came up with something called 'Courageous Restraint' But THEIR troops
fucked it off and said NO WAY.

Britain went for it. Lets show the World how much we want to make friends with the
Taliban.

It means...

If a smelly fucker walks towards a checkpoint and ignores orders to stop. As he is getting closer
the British soldier is supposed to think..

Hmmm. perhaps he's deaf?

Smelly fucker getting closer

Hmmm. perhaps he's partially sighted too and cannot read the signs

closer

Hmmm. perhaps he's mentally retarded

right on top of the position now

Hmmm. well I've courageously waited as long as possible, but he's muttering
to himself now. Shit, is that an electrical wire hanging from his sleeve? f**k
this. he's getting one in the h

BANG

Feller. Your words are touching and oh so righteous. Lets do it legally. What happens when
our lads stick rigidly to the pathetic Rules Of Engagement is this: They die!

Do you know that part of courageous restraint also means that if you see a feller pop up in
a poppy field with an AK47 in his hands, your not supposed to shoot unless you are 100% sure
he intends to shoot at you. Serious. Those are the rules. Our politicians GENUINELY want our
lads to take incoming rounds before firing back. Three months ago The Royal Marines lost
lads through an IED. They caught the feller planting one a few nights later, he threw down
his weapon and surrendered. They took him in. A few days after that, he 'escaped' from the
ANP. A week after that, another British Soldier was killed, rumour has it that the IED had all
the hallmarks of the same man. Its a WAR they are fighting. Kill or be killed. If our lads were
guilty of shooting unarmed school kids or women, or rape, or atrocities. Throw the book at
them. But after a contact, when some of their mates have been killed... if some Taliban c**t
decides he DOESNT believe in all those Virgins anymore and chucks down his weapon smiling...

Too late. Slot the c**t.

A good mate R.I.P, served with the welsh guards, was telling me about there rules of engagement and how pathetic it was for over there, because there not fighting an army, they haven't a clue who the enemy is, they hate training the afghan army/police, just so happens it was because of the idiot they was training he lost his life.
A lot of good this will do to the morale of the boys over there, politics and war don't mix, maybe they they should spend a few weeks at a forward base and go out on patrols

Whats politics got to do with anything, these are the rules of engagement set out by the military for the military. They were arrested by the Royal Military Police, who have seen a fair bit of action in their time. Thousands of troops have managed to operate within the rules of engagement. However much respect I have for our Royal Marines and trust me I do, if these individuals have broken the law they deserve to be punished. If you have killed someone outside the rules of engagement its an unlawful killing and can be charged with murder. Thousands of hours of training is put in by these guys to ensure they dont break the rules of engagement.
Nothing to do with politics its military law, law which has stood the test of time tried and tested. Its kept our troops safe in very dangerous circumstances throughout history.

......do you think the taliban insurgents use rules of engagement. ? Please get a grip.

No they dont and I doubt they ever will but we have standards and those standards need to be maintained, if we lose those standards we lose the right to judge others based on those standards. If you accept that British troops can and are allowed to murder people including insurgents and deem the rules of engagement void, we lose the right to label insurgents as murderers themselves. When you sign up you know the standard you have to maintain and if you cant meet that standard you have no right being there.
Nobody said it is easy but thats why this countries Armed Forces have the best reputation in the world. Not because we fight the hardest, or we have the best equipment or we have the largest military, its because our standards are the best in the world and our training is the best in the world. If these Marines are guilty they forgot that training and they forgot that standard and as soon as they did that they lost the right to be named a Royal Marine Commando because other Commandos have been in worse situations and managed not to murder anyone.

Do you know what those 'rules of engagement' are?? NO? Thought Not!!

The United States came up with something called 'Courageous Restraint' But THEIR troops
fucked it off and said NO WAY.

Britain went for it. Lets show the World how much we want to make friends with the
Taliban.

It means...

If a smelly fucker walks towards a checkpoint and ignores orders to stop. As he is getting closer
the British soldier is supposed to think..

Hmmm. perhaps he's deaf?

Smelly fucker getting closer

Hmmm. perhaps he's partially sighted too and cannot read the signs

closer

Hmmm. perhaps he's mentally retarded

right on top of the position now

Hmmm. well I've courageously waited as long as possible, but he's muttering
to himself now. Shit, is that an electrical wire hanging from his sleeve? f**k
this. he's getting one in the h

BANG

Feller. Your words are touching and oh so righteous. Lets do it legally. What happens when
our lads stick rigidly to the pathetic Rules Of Engagement is this: They die!

Do you know that part of courageous restraint also means that if you see a feller pop up in
a poppy field with an AK47 in his hands, your not supposed to shoot unless you are 100% sure
he intends to shoot at you. Serious. Those are the rules. Our politicians GENUINELY want our
lads to take incoming rounds before firing back. Three months ago The Royal Marines lost
lads through an IED. They caught the feller planting one a few nights later, he threw down
his weapon and surrendered. They took him in. A few days after that, he 'escaped' from the
ANP. A week after that, another British Soldier was killed, rumour has it that the IED had all
the hallmarks of the same man. Its a WAR they are fighting. Kill or be killed. If our lads were
guilty of shooting unarmed school kids or women, or rape, or atrocities. Throw the book at
them. But after a contact, when some of their mates have been killed... if some Taliban c**t
decides he DOESNT believe in all those Virgins anymore and chucks down his weapon smiling...

Too late. Slot the c**t.

Im not going to justify murder, forget it not going to happen.
The accusations of the failings of the Parachute Regiment in Northern Ireland were damaging not only to the regiment but also to the whole of the Armed Forces. This has the potential to have the same problem. We have been in this war for over 10 years and these types of accusations are very few and far between from a British point of view. So we are doing something right. This incident does not fit into just war doctrine. You said after a contact, is this the first contact British troops have been involved in? If no why couldnt these guys restrain themselves when thousands of other troops have and can? Or maybe these guys were the first to lose friends in a fire fight?
Commandos are elite troops (you know this) and their reputation has always been pretty good but if these guys are guilty, any man carrying a dagger on his arm is now a major target more than any other soldier. So whos job has now got harder? Which guys are now at more risk? This action will probably cost 10 Marines their lives in revenge attacks. All this can be avoided if you follow the rules.

Yes it could cost more lives. Thats why the charges should never been brought up . f**k them taliban cunts. They should shoot everyone of the rats. They dont want democracy. They like living in the stoneage,and 99% are heroin addicts.

Yes it could cost more lives. Thats why the charges should never been brought up . f**k them taliban cunts. They should shoot everyone of the rats. They dont want democracy. They like living in the stoneage,and 99% are heroin addicts.

Oh i see war is hell doctrine, whatever it takes. Doesnt work like that my friend and it never has done. Grow up this isnt some stupid row on a terrace where people are pretending to be hard. If people do something wrong they should be punished thats a fact of life. Soldiers have been punished for breaking the law since time began dont see why that should change, the law is the law. Just because your enemy doesnt follow the law or has signed up to different conventions doesnt give you the right to throw away those laws yourself. These are professional soldiers, they fucked up. Simple really. They are in no different a situation than any other soldier. Others Soldiers have been in fire fights and not broken the law, so why should these guys be allowed to get away with it. Other soldiers have lost friends and colleagues in battle and not broken the law, so why should these guys get away with it. Other Soldiers have taken prisoners and managed to control themselves and not break the law, so why should these guys get away with it.
You have two choices and none of them involve the enemy. You either praise these 7 Marines call them heroes for what they have done and congratulate them for their bravery whilst calling every other serviceman including the rest of the Marine Corps cowards for not following their example. Or you praise the good work of the armed forces and especially the good work of the Marine Corps, for working within very hostile and dangerous conditions with dignity and honour and within the rules of engagement, accept that people will break these laws though in very isolated incidents and it is not acceptable and will be punished. Your choice.

What apparently happened is not good to say the least, plus it was filmed.

An injured Taliban insurgent was laying on the ground, the fire fight was over.....some marines took him back to a house or somewhere and were sat around talking with him in the middle and instead of tending to his wounds they basically executed him......Im not passing judgement as ive never been in a war.

Maybe it was wrong maybe it wasn't. Looking at it they probably shouldn't have done it, then again I don't even know what happened - none of us do... BUT if you spent months fighting an enemy that was too cowardly to even reveal himself, relying on dirty tactics like IED's to try and blow you to bits, you'd want to hit out at them too. If the insurgent had been arrested there's a decent chance that he would have been released simply because nothing can be proved (again, I don't know what happened so can't say this with any certainty). What I do know is that 7 members of their company had been killed in that tour. Which probably included members of their platoon, even section. Their mates. You'd want revenge and big time - I know I would. And I really hope no one argues something along the lines of "they knew this when they signed up, it was their choice"... no one really knows the full extent of being in a combat zone until it happens. I'm in the process of considering joining the army but I know that it's going to be 100x as hard as anything I've ever done. Whether they were wrong or not we can't understand what they go through unless we do it oursleves. It's a shame that it happens at all but it does and they need to be supported.

I dont give a f**k what you think Jonny. I have never read one post where you agree. I wont cry for the Taliban

What apparently happened is not good to say the least, plus it was filmed.

An injured Taliban insurgent was laying on the ground, the fire fight was over.....some marines took him back to a house or somewhere and were sat around talking with him in the middle and instead of tending to his wounds they basically executed him......Im not passing judgement as ive never been in a war.

I love the "instead of tending to his wounds" bit

If some c**t shot your mam or dad in the face and you managed to capture him and he was
in a bad way, would you tend to his wounds?

Yes it could cost more lives. Thats why the charges should never been brought up . f**k them taliban cunts. They should shoot everyone of the rats. They dont want democracy. They like living in the stoneage,and 99% are heroin addicts.

Oh i see war is hell doctrine, whatever it takes. Doesnt work like that my friend and it never has done. Grow up this isnt some stupid row on a terrace where people are pretending to be hard. If people do something wrong they should be punished thats a fact of life. Soldiers have been punished for breaking the law since time began dont see why that should change, the law is the law. Just because your enemy doesnt follow the law or has signed up to different conventions doesnt give you the right to throw away those laws yourself. These are professional soldiers, they fucked up. Simple really. They are in no different a situation than any other soldier. Others Soldiers have been in fire fights and not broken the law, so why should these guys be allowed to get away with it. Other soldiers have lost friends and colleagues in battle and not broken the law, so why should these guys get away with it. Other Soldiers have taken prisoners and managed to control themselves and not break the law, so why should these guys get away with it.
You have two choices and none of them involve the enemy. You either praise these 7 Marines call them heroes for what they have done and congratulate them for their bravery whilst calling every other serviceman including the rest of the Marine Corps cowards for not following their example. Or you praise the good work of the armed forces and especially the good work of the Marine Corps, for working within very hostile and dangerous conditions with dignity and honour and within the rules of engagement, accept that people will break these laws though in very isolated incidents and it is not acceptable and will be punished. Your choice.

there's another option..

These lads spend 6 months on every tour wondering if the next step is going to be their last
they see their friends blown to shreds, and become adept at carrying body parts of ex mates.
They get absolutely shit money for what they do. Their politicians do f**k all for them except
take away benefits, bonuses, equipment, weapons and even rations...

... you could just give them the benefit of the doubt. Innocent until proven guilty?

nah, how silly of me. Nasty soldier men. Your a steward. Admit it, you failed the medical for
the Salvation Army didnt you

What apparently happened is not good to say the least, plus it was filmed.

An injured Taliban insurgent was laying on the ground, the fire fight was over.....some marines took him back to a house or somewhere and were sat around talking with him in the middle and instead of tending to his wounds they basically executed him......Im not passing judgement as ive never been in a war.

I love the "instead of tending to his wounds" bit

If some c**t shot your mam or dad in the face and you managed to capture him and he was
in a bad way, would you tend to his wounds?

If u read my post i said im not passing judgement on them as ive never been in a war and have no idea what they r going through.

I just posted what apparently happened.

What apparently happened is not good to say the least, plus it was filmed.

An injured Taliban insurgent was laying on the ground, the fire fight was over.....some marines took him back to a house or somewhere and were sat around talking with him in the middle and instead of tending to his wounds they basically executed him......Im not passing judgement as ive never been in a war.

I love the "instead of tending to his wounds" bit

If some c**t shot your mam or dad in the face and you managed to capture him and he was
in a bad way, would you tend to his wounds?

If u read my post i said im not passing judgement on them as ive never been in a war and have no idea what they r going through.

I just posted what apparently happened.