Has any football club got a divine right

Has any football club got a divine right to success ?

For 40 years I have followed our beloved Bluebirds and watched them for 9 years in Division 4, when many say they were there yet our home crowds were were as low as 1,500 and our away support was as low as 11 fans, so u do get to remember the faces.
I am not having a go at any fans for not being there, everyone has a reason, some were not even born.


The last 12 years in my opinion has been nothing but success compared to the old days ,it's been a dream come true on the pitch, 4 Wembley appearances and to think I would of accepted 1
The problem is sometimes success can come at a price if you over spend and we all get carried away with this, in the past we have nearly gone under on numerous occasions .


There are many many clubs who have spent their entire lives in the lower divisions,their fans are together and united as one.
There are some who say we deserve to be in the top flight and deserve success more than most clubs ?

My personal opinion is that u earn success on your own Merritt and u deserve to be where u are.

How can us fans finally unite ?

On the field of play, I can not see a problem, we should all get behind our team, they are playing for us.

Off the field I can't accept this rebranding and will never accept it and that's my divine right and belief, I should be respected for it and so should others. Yet sadly some City fans have intimidated,threatened,belittled and made some of the fans who still believe in us being Blue feel very uncomfortable on forums and even at meetings. If City fans still want to wear their Blue shirts this season, then they should be totally respected for it, surely ?

I am over the moon with our signings so far, but as we know they came at a price, our identity.
I believe most fans accepted the rebranding, believing we wiill be debt free, this needs to happen now, not later as our debts are mounting daily, at this current moment they are near £90 mill, call me negative, but surely all our fans should take notice of this ?

I believe more fans will believe and respect Tan, the day he makes us debt free.

I will be there on Friday night to watch u play Huddersfield and cheering us on.

Couldnt agree more. Success but at what cost? Leicester spent big last year and finished mid table. In hindsight i just wish we were more prudent and sensible in the past so this rebranding would never have had to happen

Sureley it goes both ways though, you stated fans who believe in staying blue have felt uncomfortable on forums and in meetings but what about the fans who believe in wearing red? theres already a topic on here about a fan wearing red got started on by bunch of idoits when walking through his home town wearing the red top, sureley its about time both sets of fans stop this arguing and put it to one side and just get on with supporting the club.

Has any football club got a divine right to success ?

For 40 years I have followed our beloved Bluebirds and watched them for 9 years in Division 4, when many say they were there yet our home crowds were were as low as 1,500 and our away support was as low as 11 fans, so u do get to remember the faces.
I am not having a go at any fans for not being there, everyone has a reason, some were not even born.


The last 12 years in my opinion has been nothing but success compared to the old days ,it's been a dream come true on the pitch, 4 Wembley appearances and to think I would of accepted 1
The problem is sometimes success can come at a price if you over spend and we all get carried away with this, in the past we have nearly gone under on numerous occasions .


There are many many clubs who have spent their entire lives in the lower divisions,their fans are together and united as one.
There are some who say we deserve to be in the top flight and deserve success more than most clubs ?

My personal opinion is that u earn success on your own Merritt and u deserve to be where u are.

How can us fans finally unite ?

On the field of play, I can not see a problem, we should all get behind our team, they are playing for us.

Off the field I can't accept this rebranding and will never accept it and that's my divine right and belief, I should be respected for it and so should others. Yet sadly some City fans have intimidated,threatened,belittled and made some of the fans who still believe in us being Blue feel very uncomfortable on forums and even at meetings. If City fans still want to wear their Blue shirts this season, then they should be totally respected for it, surely ?

I am over the moon with our signings so far, but as we know they came at a price, our identity.
I believe most fans accepted the rebranding, believing we wiill be debt free, this needs to happen now, not later as our debts are mounting daily, at this current moment they are near £90 mill, call me negative, but surely all our fans should take notice of this ?

I believe more fans will believe and respect Tan, the day he makes us debt free.

I will be there on Friday night to watch u play Huddersfield and cheering us on.

I haven't got a problem with anything you say here and yes the current financial position does need keeping an eye on.On the rebrand front I think everyone knows where you stand and I personaly haven't got a problem with that either,however,in this kind of argument theres actually no moral right on either side,theres just a difference of opinion on the way forward.As for people feeling bullied because of their point of view that too is a pity really but those that now feel bullied should remember that it always cuts both ways.

I'll be honest here.When this rebrand stuff first broke you and a few others on this board were outraged(as is your right)and if I'm not mistaken expected a massive anti-rebrand surge from an overwhelming majority of the rank and file city fans.That to your surprise did not happen.There was a lot of insults and personal abuse from both sides.Some of it was so bad it was quickly taken off again.Nobody want's to see city fans at each others throats and I'm glad if your trying to set an example as the owner of this board should do.

Totally agree with this as ive said before i will still support the boys but i will NEVER wear red

Annis your entitled to your own opinion re the rebranding..
Both sides are just as bad ive seen and heard pro blues belittling fans calling them soulsellers,sell outs and plastics.
Only the other night on here a poster who is a part of the so called peaceful Kcb was threatening posters and not for the first time.
None of us actually want the rebranding its just the majority will accept it.
We all need to put our diferences to one side and unite behind the team

Well said!

The debt free part of the deal is what all fans want to see, if and when that day comes then the rebrand will be a little easier to except for all fans

Annis your entitled to your own opinion re the rebranding..
Both sides are just as bad ive seen and heard pro blues belittling fans calling them soulsellers,sell outs and plastics.
Only the other night on here a poster who is a part of the so called peaceful Kcb was threatening posters and not for the first time.
None of us actually want the rebranding its just the majority will accept it.
We all need to put our diferences to one side and unite behind the team

Well said

What chance have we got to put differences to one side when Annis post's re-branding, lost identity, beer mat badge Tan's a liar KCB etc !!! Then ask's " How can us fans finally unite ?" Answer... give your opinion by all means but it's getting to be more like propaganda when we get it day in day out

I think it's time you got off your Pity Pot Annis, and move on a bit mate.

Come on annis it works both ways, that post wa so one sided, its no suprise all the people agreeing are the pro blues, how about the fan wearing a red shirt and got some abuse? The blues are just as bad as the reds, and i honestly feel 99% of the people who have accepted red only have because the debt to equity swap not because we want the colour change! I see the reds get a bashing every day on here but you only make out that its the reds doing the abusing! The amount of times dazzyt has asked where people sit, or to meet them for a chat on here is no short of a joke! Why is this not mentioned! I agree that everyone has an opinion annis and youre entitled to yours, but dont try to make out its just one way abuse at least VT has bought it up about turning debt to equity, if it happens thats a different thing, for one he does not have to pay sam, its the clubs debt, and whilst we are on that why did sam not turn his "loans" to equity? Surley we wouldnt be having this convo now if he did?

You need to tell Sam this Annis as until he comes to an agreement with VT over his debt then nothing will happen.

Unless of course we go up, which will be the biggest game changer.

I wouldn't be surprised if both parties were settled back waiting to see what happens between now and May.


How do you now get the debt as £90m, it was only £70 in May ? Sure we've spent a net say £4m on players, and maybe also lost a few mill in between, but it can't have grown by £20m in 3 months surely.

No club has divine right to success. Liverpool FC fans think they do as do Man Utd which is why I hate clubs like that.

What frustrates a lot of us is the sight of smaller clubs like Fulham Swansea, Wigan and Reading in the top flight and the fact that clubs like Bradford and Swindon have had the taste of honey. Unfortunately for us we have been run badly for as long as I remember and as such we are where we deserve to be at the moment.

I firmly believe that we have a very good chance this season and if/when we get there it'll be a great moment.

Both sides are just as bad ive seen and heard pro blues belittling fans calling them soulsellers,sell outs and plastics.

Speak as you find.

The divide will still be there somewhere for at least another 15 years. IMO the only way it could be fixed is if we drop down the divisions and spend a few years there with low crowds, so that the 'part timers' would leave and the so called 'hardcore fans' would still be there. I wouldn't want it to happen but I'd still be there if it did.

However I don't like the thought of success being bought. I think it should be done properly by being smart in the transfer market and using the youth systems well. We were in that position in DJ's years but now we are looked at as a 'money club' which I don't really like. Anyway, roll on Friday

However I don't like the thought of success being bought. I think it should be done properly by being smart in the transfer market and using the youth systems well. We were in that position in DJ's years but now we are looked at as a 'money club' which I don't really like. Anyway, roll on Friday

Yes, I agree. It should be done properly, no unethical acts such as corporate style rebrands.

Is there a dangerous undercurrent in this river of politics.It sounds to me that if you don't agree with the re-brand you are safely on the boat and if you do agree you have to swim.

How often can the same thread be re-packaged under a different heading, most of them by Annis it seems?
All I'll say is this:
1. We are all pro-blue, just some accept the change easier than others
2. To suggest only those who are vehemently opposed to red have been abused, belittled etc is nonsense as both sides have dished it out at times.
3. We are still Cardiff City, still the bluebirds and play in the CCS. I don't agree we've lost our identity and our history remains in tact
4. Why can't we just give VT time to sort the clubs finances out instead of bleating on every day about the debt? We are already past the point of no return so I'm not going to worry about it as can't affect it. As a fan I'll do my bit my supporting the team on the pitch.
5. In the past 12 months I've attended the funerals of 5 family members and close friends. I'm sure you all have had your losses. The world is in turmoil, financially and politically and within this I have to bring up my young child. Sorry but the colour of a shirt is way down on my list of priorities
6. I respect all views but can't see why true supporters can't see past this current phase in the life of Cardiff City and stand behind the team. It's about the bigger picture and that's the progress of the club

Enjoy the rest of the weekend all

Well said mate it certainly puts it all into perspective and grounded me for sure.

I hope nobody thinks we have a divine right to be successful or be a premiership club. But what I think a lot of fans want is for us to be in a position to kick on and get to the prem, once there nobody will be silly enough to think of silverwear,just to consolodate and finish 17th or relegated and bounce back. Years ago we wouldn't have thought this was possible, but it actually could be possible now. Now its time to take that chance and actually give it a shot, if we lose out and don't make it, we can all talk about the days when we nearly made it. I'd rather talk about making or nearly making it than being a typical brit who is scared of success and critises what they are unsure of. Not long ago we were div 4 no fans, no money, no good. So if we fail and fail so badly that somehow our first top top billionaire owner doesn't run the club properly and we end up skint and back in league 2, we can at least say we had ago. Because does anyone really want to be a scunthorpe or a lincoln, where nothing happens and nobody outside the club could care.

Nobody wants red, but I personally want to see what this man VT could do for our club. Initially under sam everything was rosey, then the true extent of our finances exceeded his capability, beofre that we've never had an owner willing to back his mouth. VT is showing slowly that he will, we aren't in court every week, we don't have the riddler near our club, and we have the best squad I've ever known us to have.

Let's united for once, and see what can happen

posted this in another thread, this is the right thread pls delete the double in Gwyn's thread...cheers


Am I behind the team? YES
Am I excited bout the new players? YES
Am I behind Malky? YES
Do I consider myself a City-Fan? F**K YES
Do I accept the red and (even worse) the beermat? NO chance
Do I have trust in our "owners"? Hell NO

A lot my passion is gone, tbh. And that's partly due to the re-branding but also to see so many of us fans accepting our identity being wiped out by one guy, who prefers red and a dragon and who spends money on us. And I can't accept the change, it is selfish and disrespectful, not mentioning he said so differently a few weeks before he announced his changes.
There was no need for it, it has nothing to do with marketing or better merchandise sales. You think the kids who bought the red CB39 shirts in the last 2 days wouldnt have if they were blue and had our real crest on it? Don't think so...

Some say the Malaysian will walk if anyone protests against the changes, I highly doubt it. First of all Whiteley already stated they werent walking anyways.
Then, ask yourselves, if you're a businessman and you invest sh1tloads of money into a project and your customer/clients (call em as whatever you like) say to you "we like your project, but we dont like your logo, colour, marketing campaign etc..., will you just walk away, shut down and loose all your money you have invested? I dont think so. You'd either listen to your customers/clients and change again to make your business successful or you are pissed off and you sell your project to somebody else, cos you want your money back.

Transfer this to us in our situation, sell the club to another buyer... will be hard to find anyone with all that debt. Even IF you'd find a new "owner" would he just drop the club and loose all his money? No of course not...
So, the only answer is, the Malysians are staying on, fullstop!

Everybody is entiteled to his/her opinion, and mine is clearly known. I accept everyone who took the red/beermat on board, wont fall out with those, but pls accept my decision never ever to buy/wear/accept the "new face" we got. And as we've been lied to, I don't trust the Malaysians a single inch (same as I mistrusted Sam and Riddler). And it is everybody's right to voice their concern and protest. That's what democracy is all about.

I am not saying that having a rally and holding up signs will change all that. But that is part of opposition, as well as people behind the scenes lobbying the "owners" (God I hate that word) into changing it back to what we all want. But this has to be organised and coordinated and supported by the large number of us fans. KCB were the only opposition group, whilst many just accepted the changes. I had hopes that KCB would unite us fans to get back what was taken off us. This is not the case.

What now? Just give up? No chance. I still have hopes that one day we will stand up for the values and our identity. But we need to start, otherwise nothing will ever happen. Being inactive means for the mighty they can get away with it and whatever they are planning next. For them its just a brand, a product, for us it is part of our lives that we feel passionate about. I never felt passionate about Magners or Clark's Pies, altho I like em a lot.

What we need is for us fans to unite, have open and meaningful discussions, without name-calling, threatening people, belittling others etc, and have an organised and coordinated campaign. Most pro-reds on here state the would rather have blue but accept the red for the time being, fair enough but then stand by your words and support a united campaign.

United we stand or divided we fall!

At the same time, we as fans should get behind our boys, cheer them on and be passionate out our team when they play. This is prob the best Cardiff team we have seen in our lifetime (well for me being 40 and supportiung the City since 1990 anyways). Bellers back...FECK YES!!! Now get Ledley back and I will be happy (maybe add Kavanagh to our coaching staff too ). Sing you hearts out for the lads, this could be our year.

Blooobiiirds

Annis it works both ways fans who don't support the red rebrand should also respect those that do don't know why you missed that out

[quote="Forever Blue"]Has any football club got a divine right to success ?

For 40 years I have followed our beloved Bluebirds and watched them for 9 years in Division 4, when many say they were there yet our home crowds were were as low as 1,500 and our away support was as low as 11 fans, so u do get to remember the faces.
I am not having a go at any fans for not being there, everyone has a reason, some were not even born.


The last 12 years in my opinion has been nothing but success compared to the old days ,it's been a dream come true on the pitch, 4 Wembley appearances and to think I would of accepted 1
The problem is sometimes success can come at a price if you over spend and we all get carried away with this, in the past we have nearly gone under on numerous occasions .


There are many many clubs who have spent their entire lives in the lower divisions,their fans are together and united as one.
There are some who say we deserve to be in the top flight and deserve success more than most clubs ?

My personal opinion is that u earn success on your own Merritt and u deserve to be where u are.

How can us fans finally unite ?

On the field of play, I can not see a problem, we should all get behind our team, they are playing for us.

Off the field I can't accept this rebranding and will never accept it and that's my divine right and belief, I should be respected for it and so should others. Yet sadly some City fans have intimidated,threatened,belittled and made some of the fans who still believe in us being Blue feel very uncomfortable on forums and even at meetings. If City fans still want to wear their Blue shirts this season, then they should be totally respected for it, surely ?

I am over the moon with our signings so far, but as we know they came at a price, our identity.
I believe most fans accepted the rebranding, believing we wiill be debt free, this needs to happen now, not later as our debts are mounting daily, at this current moment they are near £90 mill, call me negative, but surely all our fans should take notice of this ?

I believe more fans will believe and respect Tan, the day he makes us debt free.

I will be there on Friday night to watch u play Huddersfield and cheering us on. [/qu
Dont think most people ever thought we had a divine right for success but i know i am 100% certain of is you need to have as much ,luck,forward planning,support,experience,and financial backing as possible to have a decent pop at succedeing.

It's not about success, its not about history, its about people and shared experiences.
As your children get older and leave home you know you'd happily give up your memories for one more day on the beach with them, one more kick around the yard.
There will come a day when the 2012/2013 season will be long forgotten and nothing more than a statistic in an old book.
Embrace this season, sing loud, love it and enjoy it as you will never have it again.

How can it not be about success? How many players have we wanted out for not being good enough, same about managers, how many times have we booed after defeat. Its always about success, what's why there is a league and that's why we compete.

How can it not be about success? How many players have we wanted out for not being good enough, same about managers, how many times have we booed after defeat. Its always about success, what's why there is a league and that's why we compete.

Every game i have ever been to watch the city that we have not won/drawn i am gutted, so you are right in my eyes

Has any football club got a divine right to success ?

For 40 years I have followed our beloved Bluebirds and watched them for 9 years in Division 4, when many say they were there yet our home crowds were were as low as 1,500 and our away support was as low as 11 fans, so u do get to remember the faces.
I am not having a go at any fans for not being there, everyone has a reason, some were not even born.


The last 12 years in my opinion has been nothing but success compared to the old days ,it's been a dream come true on the pitch, 4 Wembley appearances and to think I would of accepted 1
The problem is sometimes success can come at a price if you over spend and we all get carried away with this, in the past we have nearly gone under on numerous occasions .


There are many many clubs who have spent their entire lives in the lower divisions,their fans are together and united as one.
There are some who say we deserve to be in the top flight and deserve success more than most clubs ?

My personal opinion is that u earn success on your own Merritt and u deserve to be where u are.

How can us fans finally unite ?

On the field of play, I can not see a problem, we should all get behind our team, they are playing for us.

Off the field I can't accept this rebranding and will never accept it and that's my divine right and belief, I should be respected for it and so should others. Yet sadly some City fans have intimidated,threatened,belittled and made some of the fans who still believe in us being Blue feel very uncomfortable on forums and even at meetings. If City fans still want to wear their Blue shirts this season, then they should be totally respected for it, surely ?

Couldn't agree more and this calling fans plastic and red lovers and selling your soul for thirty pieces of silver and arse lickers and sell outs, just because some fans are more interested in what's best for the club rather than what suits them, shouldn't mean they face such abuse, but I'm sure as time goes by it will get watered down bit by bit and the more successful we are the quicker it will happen, Someone said to me it's not the bully boys or the old regular fans who will ensure the future is not affected over a colour, it will be the kids who have been buying the red shirts as if there's a sale on, one yougster I seen proudly wearing his new red shirt on Friday was asked by an older bloke, why you wearing red then, and the boy in all innocence and simplicity, said it's because it's the colour MY TEAM play in, summed it up quite nicely I thought. But back to the point, the name calling and threats off both side is not needed, we are all Cardiff fans, and if you love the team and the club as you say, let's do what's best for them and get behind the boys.

I am over the moon with our signings so far, but as we know they came at a price, our identity.
I believe most fans accepted the rebranding, believing we wiill be debt free, this needs to happen now, not later as our debts are mounting daily, at this current moment they are near £90 mill, call me negative, but surely all our fans should take notice of this ?

It's hardly our debt though is it, and the majority of it is owwed to one man who is the owner, the only way he can get it back is to make us successful and sell us, and that will suit most of us, we should even be able to get the blue back then As for going bust, which I can't see with the amount VT stands to lose now, even if we did go bust, it may as well be for one million as one hundred million, same cost to us fans it will be at the end of the day.

I believe more fans will believe and respect Tan, the day he makes us debt free.

Will we ever be debt free? and who is we? the debt isn't mine or yours or any other fans really, the debt is in the most VT's so if he switches all his investment to equity, has the debt gone, because the club as we see it is then owned by him lock stock and barrel, so we don't own it, we never will and technically we are totally indebted to him then. What most of us hate is the winding up orders, the transfer embargoes[color=#0040BF], players not getting pais, local business's being owed money and not prepared to deal with us anymore, luckily those days are gone now
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I will be there on Friday night to watch u play Huddersfield and cheering us on.

What's happened has happened. Like many others, I am very unhappy with our home shirts being anything other than blue, but hopefully that can be reversed in the future. For this coming season it is red at home and blue away, barring a colour clash with the home side. As for the fans' divide; I have not been to any of the away friendlies, but was there yesterday, and it passed off peacefully! Did see two lads being escorted out of the Canton stand, but don't know the reason. It was a typical pre-season friendly, complete with hot weather. Personally, I would not be seen dead in a replica shirt, of any colour. Besides, at 54, I don't really have the silouhete any more!

But Blue remains our away colour. When, eventually, the blue away shirts go on sale, surely there will be no problem if people wear them? This season's away kit? Nor with this season's home kit? Whatever our views, we sink or swim together. Looking around the club shop yesterday, there are some new blue and white only, bluebird themed items. Looks like the club realise that some damage has been done. Actually bought a Ninian Park mug, after swearing blind not to buy any merchandise this season. Oh, and a programme

On Annis' point of remembering faces. I can honestly claim to have been there in divisions 3 (eg 75/76) and 4 ( late 80s). Still see some fans that I knew then. My away record is more patchy, although for various reasons it has been better over the last two seasons. Did go to Chelsea, Millwall, the Bristol clubs, Newport, and Swansea in the basement years. Looking forward to Northampton on Tuesday. I'm trying (unsuccessfully so far) to persuade a mate of mine from north Cardiff to continue going to the games. He's unhappy with recent events. It will be a terrible shame if we lose fans over the re-branding. Like I said, we sink or swim together.

The team looked good yesterday, although Newcastle were poor, and did not seem too interested. So let's get behind the City. We can still have our views about the primary colours, but once the games start, we need to pull together. Other issues can be decided elsewhere.

But the promise for the re brand was explained as debt free. He has not delivered on this. So how long are the red camp willing to wait to be debt free ? 6 months a year or is there no time limit So as some says it does not matter how much the debt gets to Holly shit mobiles yes it does. If its one million then a player sale will cover that. But over 100 million then there will be no coming back. In a sense we are gambling everything and i mean everything on getting to the Prem. If we fail and i give it two attempts at most and we are finished, no red no blue.
Yes we got a good team and a good manager but would you bet your house on us going up this season or even next. Gwyn you said come January if the debt has not been sorted you will be first over the wall and behind you in there bright red shirts are big Sam and Macca with your tin hats on. Will this still be the case ? Would rather climb that wall together instead of me being already on the other side facing you lot

But the promise for the re brand was explained as debt free. He has not delivered on this. So how long are the red camp willing to wait to be debt free ? 6 months a year or is there no time limit So as some says it does not matter how much the debt gets to Holly shit mobiles yes it does. If its one million then a player sale will cover that. But over 100 million then there will be no coming back. In a sense we are gambling everything and i mean everything on getting to the Prem. If we fail and i give it two attempts at most and we are finished, no red no blue.
Yes we got a good team and a good manager but would you bet your house on us going up this season or even next. Gwyn you said come January if the debt has not been sorted you will be first over the wall and behind you in there bright red shirts are big Sam and Macca with your tin hats on. Will this still be the case ? Would rather climb that wall together instead of me being already on the other side facing you lot

THE RED CAMP, who the f*cking hell is in the red camp, isn't it wearing thin now, how many times do you have to read no one wants red, there is no red camp, no red lovers, just a lot of Cardiff fans who will reluctantly accept what is best for the club they love, not what suits them as individuals , but what is best for the club. Sometimes in life we have to make sacrifices and to many of us, this is one..
As for debt free, yes none of us want to see us owing the tax man, other clubs, local firms, players wages etc, and that is happening already, the deal with Langston can not be sorted by one party and needs both to agree, we can only hope it happens but are helpless to do anything coz its not in our hands,

But even when this is all done, do you think we will own the club or VT, coz at the end of the day, he may own the club, but he will want a few hundred million to sell it, we will always be in debt to who ever own us, like it or not, it's mot our club, it's the owners, end of. Step forward if you got the money to buy it, because there was no big rush before tha Malaysians saved us.