" Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:41 pm
This sums up his tenure, from an outsider, fairly accurately.....thoughts??
6th March 2012.
Dave Jones at Sheffield Wednesday: what the fans can expect
Six things Owls fans can look forward to with the former Cardiff City manager Dave Jones at the helm
Dave Jones has been appointed as the new manager of Sheffield Wednesday after the dismissal of Gary Megson. Photograph: Andrew Matthews/PA
Since being sacked by Cardiff City in the summer, Dave Jones has spent a surprisingly long time unemployed. Sheffield Wednesday have finally given him a route back into management, with the Owls lying third in League One and the owner Milan Mandaric desperate for promotion to the Championship. So what can Jones bring to the Steel City? Here are six things (one for each of his seasons with the Bluebirds) Wednesday fans can expect: three that may frustrate, followed by three that are more positive.
1) Professional detachment
In his last job, Jones refused to pay the sort of lip-service to passion, commitment and undying love that are common currency in football, frequently commenting that he wanted Cardiff to succeed simply because it was his job and saying he would never claim to feel about the club the way fans do. This also led to common downplaying of the South Wales derby matches against Swansea, with Jones consistently stating that it was just another game, the same as any other.
Frankly, he may pay for being too honest here, there is a lot of truth to what he says but it is not the sort of rousing talk that gets fans onside. Another feature of this was Jones's awful relationship with the local press, who he once famously wished "a shit journey home" following an away fixture. These issues may not present huge problems in themselves, particularly when things are going well, but when things go badly they only add to the pressure and ill-feeling, as well as meaning that by the end there were few people willing to publicly fight Jones's corner.
2) 4-4-2
The tactical inflexibility Cardiff showed under Jones was a particular bugbear for many fans. It was flat 4-4-2 and flat 4-4-2 all the way. Rather than change tactics to accommodate players, Jones would choose to move players so that they fitted his template. In itself of course, having a preferred set-up isn't necessarily a bad thing, and 4-4-2 can (and frequently was) more than adequate.
However, in a team chasing promotion (as Wednesday are now), there was a persistent feeling that Cardiff became too predictable: more flexibility, particularly away from home, could have been useful. Ironically, one of the few times Jones did change tactics, at home to Swansea, the result was a 1-0 defeat and a dire performance.
3) Choking
The most common complaint from Jones's reign in South Wales. Cardiff's end of season collapses become so well known that a Daily Record headline reported Celtic manager Neil Lennon warning his side "Don't do a Cardiff" (before losing the subsequent match and the league title – ha!). 2008 saw a limp performance in the FA Cup final; in 2009 Cardiff missed out on the play-offs after only one point from the final four games; 2010 culminated in a poor performance in a play-off final defeat to Blackpool while Reading defeated the Bluebirds in the 2011 play-off semi-final.
In 2002, Jones's Wolves team managed to lose an 11-point lead in March to lose out on promotion, though it should be noted that they went on to win promotion the following year, winning a play-off final 3-0 (against Sheffield United!). With a famously trigger-happy chairman clearly desperate to see his club in the Championship, to keep his job Jones may have to do something he failed to do in South Wales and gain promotion.
4) Progress
Under Jones's stewardship, Cardiff undoubtedly made huge advances, on and off the field. Joining the club after they had narrowly avoided relegation, Jones improved the team year on year, going from mid-table to play-off challengers to top-six certainties. Only in his final season did his side undoubtedly finish in a position lower than they should have, while his reign also saw the Bluebirds historically reach the 2008 FA Cup final.
Off the field, the financial problems he had to deal with have been well-documented, but Jones's tenure still saw the club's stature grow consistently: the average attendance in his first season was 11,802 whereas by his final season (in a new stadium of course) that average had almost doubled to 23,231. Jones deserves immense credit for the clear progress made by the club during his time in charge.
5) Attractive football with talented players
Perhaps unlike his predecessor at Hillsborough, Jones's commitment to attacking football was apparent as Cardiff became one of the most attractive sides in the Championship. This style was reflected in the players brought to the club: Bluebirds fans were treated to seeing players such as Jason Koumas, Peter Whittingham, Michael Chopra, Jay Bothroyd and others. It is a testament to Jones that in his final season, Cardiff's players were referred to as "big names": apart from Craig Bellamy, none of those players had made their names before they were brought to South Wales and had developed into fine players under Jones's tutelage.
He had an aptitude for dealing with notoriously difficult characters – Jones was able to succeed where many others had failed and bring the best out of talented players such as Bothroyd and Koumas, who became excellent players for the Bluebirds.
6) Operating shrewdly on a small budget
As mentioned above, Jones was able to bring in a lot of very good players during his time at Cardiff. What made this more remarkable was that he was able to do so while consistently having to make money through the sale (and replacement) of key players. To do all this and continue the forward progress of the team was nothing short of remarkable.
Jones had to sell players such as Jobi McAnuff, James Collins, Danny Gabbidon, Cameron Jerome, Aaron Ramsey, Roger Johnson and numerous others. Of course, there were lots of cheap and short-term signings that did not work out, but in the market Jones was operating in that was all but inevitable and any failures are more than outweighed by signings such as Kevin McNaughton (free), Whittingham (£300,000), Bothroyd (£350,000), Roger Johnson (£275,000) and more; a hugely impressive record.
The memory of Jones's time at Cardiff was stained by the ultimate failure to gain promotion, particularly in his final season when the Bluebirds underachieved in finishing fourth. However, this has clouded what was otherwise an extremely impressive tenure, in which the club made huge strides on and off the field. He is not perfect, but he is good enough to give Sheffield Wednesday fans genuine cause for optimism.
6th March 2012.
Dave Jones at Sheffield Wednesday: what the fans can expect
Six things Owls fans can look forward to with the former Cardiff City manager Dave Jones at the helm
Dave Jones has been appointed as the new manager of Sheffield Wednesday after the dismissal of Gary Megson. Photograph: Andrew Matthews/PA
Since being sacked by Cardiff City in the summer, Dave Jones has spent a surprisingly long time unemployed. Sheffield Wednesday have finally given him a route back into management, with the Owls lying third in League One and the owner Milan Mandaric desperate for promotion to the Championship. So what can Jones bring to the Steel City? Here are six things (one for each of his seasons with the Bluebirds) Wednesday fans can expect: three that may frustrate, followed by three that are more positive.
1) Professional detachment
In his last job, Jones refused to pay the sort of lip-service to passion, commitment and undying love that are common currency in football, frequently commenting that he wanted Cardiff to succeed simply because it was his job and saying he would never claim to feel about the club the way fans do. This also led to common downplaying of the South Wales derby matches against Swansea, with Jones consistently stating that it was just another game, the same as any other.
Frankly, he may pay for being too honest here, there is a lot of truth to what he says but it is not the sort of rousing talk that gets fans onside. Another feature of this was Jones's awful relationship with the local press, who he once famously wished "a shit journey home" following an away fixture. These issues may not present huge problems in themselves, particularly when things are going well, but when things go badly they only add to the pressure and ill-feeling, as well as meaning that by the end there were few people willing to publicly fight Jones's corner.
2) 4-4-2
The tactical inflexibility Cardiff showed under Jones was a particular bugbear for many fans. It was flat 4-4-2 and flat 4-4-2 all the way. Rather than change tactics to accommodate players, Jones would choose to move players so that they fitted his template. In itself of course, having a preferred set-up isn't necessarily a bad thing, and 4-4-2 can (and frequently was) more than adequate.
However, in a team chasing promotion (as Wednesday are now), there was a persistent feeling that Cardiff became too predictable: more flexibility, particularly away from home, could have been useful. Ironically, one of the few times Jones did change tactics, at home to Swansea, the result was a 1-0 defeat and a dire performance.
3) Choking
The most common complaint from Jones's reign in South Wales. Cardiff's end of season collapses become so well known that a Daily Record headline reported Celtic manager Neil Lennon warning his side "Don't do a Cardiff" (before losing the subsequent match and the league title – ha!). 2008 saw a limp performance in the FA Cup final; in 2009 Cardiff missed out on the play-offs after only one point from the final four games; 2010 culminated in a poor performance in a play-off final defeat to Blackpool while Reading defeated the Bluebirds in the 2011 play-off semi-final.
In 2002, Jones's Wolves team managed to lose an 11-point lead in March to lose out on promotion, though it should be noted that they went on to win promotion the following year, winning a play-off final 3-0 (against Sheffield United!). With a famously trigger-happy chairman clearly desperate to see his club in the Championship, to keep his job Jones may have to do something he failed to do in South Wales and gain promotion.
4) Progress
Under Jones's stewardship, Cardiff undoubtedly made huge advances, on and off the field. Joining the club after they had narrowly avoided relegation, Jones improved the team year on year, going from mid-table to play-off challengers to top-six certainties. Only in his final season did his side undoubtedly finish in a position lower than they should have, while his reign also saw the Bluebirds historically reach the 2008 FA Cup final.
Off the field, the financial problems he had to deal with have been well-documented, but Jones's tenure still saw the club's stature grow consistently: the average attendance in his first season was 11,802 whereas by his final season (in a new stadium of course) that average had almost doubled to 23,231. Jones deserves immense credit for the clear progress made by the club during his time in charge.
5) Attractive football with talented players
Perhaps unlike his predecessor at Hillsborough, Jones's commitment to attacking football was apparent as Cardiff became one of the most attractive sides in the Championship. This style was reflected in the players brought to the club: Bluebirds fans were treated to seeing players such as Jason Koumas, Peter Whittingham, Michael Chopra, Jay Bothroyd and others. It is a testament to Jones that in his final season, Cardiff's players were referred to as "big names": apart from Craig Bellamy, none of those players had made their names before they were brought to South Wales and had developed into fine players under Jones's tutelage.
He had an aptitude for dealing with notoriously difficult characters – Jones was able to succeed where many others had failed and bring the best out of talented players such as Bothroyd and Koumas, who became excellent players for the Bluebirds.
6) Operating shrewdly on a small budget
As mentioned above, Jones was able to bring in a lot of very good players during his time at Cardiff. What made this more remarkable was that he was able to do so while consistently having to make money through the sale (and replacement) of key players. To do all this and continue the forward progress of the team was nothing short of remarkable.
Jones had to sell players such as Jobi McAnuff, James Collins, Danny Gabbidon, Cameron Jerome, Aaron Ramsey, Roger Johnson and numerous others. Of course, there were lots of cheap and short-term signings that did not work out, but in the market Jones was operating in that was all but inevitable and any failures are more than outweighed by signings such as Kevin McNaughton (free), Whittingham (£300,000), Bothroyd (£350,000), Roger Johnson (£275,000) and more; a hugely impressive record.
The memory of Jones's time at Cardiff was stained by the ultimate failure to gain promotion, particularly in his final season when the Bluebirds underachieved in finishing fourth. However, this has clouded what was otherwise an extremely impressive tenure, in which the club made huge strides on and off the field. He is not perfect, but he is good enough to give Sheffield Wednesday fans genuine cause for optimism.
Re: Cracking Dave Jones Write Up
Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:52 pm
Interesting article. As for having an aptitude for dealing with notoriously difficult characters, well i thought he just bombed them out of our club, or completely ignored them!
Re: Cracking Dave Jones Write Up
Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:01 pm
Good article that. well written and fair
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:37 pm
A very good write and a lot of honesty, but they forgot, what ever players Jones asked for on high wages the Riddler got him and the Malaysians backed him.
Just a few of many.
Basic wages/plus massive bonuses.
Eddie Johnson £20,000 a week.
Warren Feeney £6,500 a week.
Craig Bellamy £90,000 a week, we only paid about 20% of that.
Trevor Sinclair. £10,000 a week.
Robbie Fowler. £28,000 a week.
Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink. £15,000 a week.
Jay Bothroyd. £8,000 a week.
J Lloyd Samuel £20,000 a week.
Michael Chopra £24,000 a week.
The list is endless.
And gave away for nothing.
Joe Ledley/Neil Alexandra/ J Bothroyd/ Matthews.
Just a few of many.
Basic wages/plus massive bonuses.
Eddie Johnson £20,000 a week.
Warren Feeney £6,500 a week.
Craig Bellamy £90,000 a week, we only paid about 20% of that.
Trevor Sinclair. £10,000 a week.
Robbie Fowler. £28,000 a week.
Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink. £15,000 a week.
Jay Bothroyd. £8,000 a week.
J Lloyd Samuel £20,000 a week.
Michael Chopra £24,000 a week.
The list is endless.
And gave away for nothing.
Joe Ledley/Neil Alexandra/ J Bothroyd/ Matthews.
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:09 pm
Good article but missing one important word in my opinion.
Arsehole.
Arsehole.
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:46 pm
castleblue wrote:Good article but missing one important word in my opinion.
Arsehole.
Gary, you missed a word Arrogant Arsehole.
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:49 pm
Forever Blue wrote:castleblue wrote:Good article but missing one important word in my opinion.
Arsehole.
Gary, you missed a word Arrogant Arsehole.
I stand corrected Annis.
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:59 pm
castleblue wrote:Forever Blue wrote:castleblue wrote:Good article but missing one important word in my opinion.
Arsehole.
Gary, you missed a word Arrogant Arsehole.
I stand corrected Annis.
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:19 pm
Admittedly the author has missed some points out (my first thought was his non selection and treatment of young players - matthews prime example) but we're all too close to the matter, and we all have our opinions whether good or bad on Jonesy.
Either way, if he doesn't get Wednesday promoted this season, he never will!
Either way, if he doesn't get Wednesday promoted this season, he never will!
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:37 pm
An I in the wrong job?
Re: What the sheff wed fans say on JONES
by bloobirds68 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:53 pm
Plusses for Wednesday: He will get money to spend,if City was anything to go by, hopefully for players and not himself, alleged to be on £760k pa with us and backroom staff on mega money also.
Can turn a bad un into a good un. If Wed have any?
Minuses: Not good at PR and dealing with the Media but may have learnt after City. Dour most of the time.
Tactics: 4 4 2 frustratingly hardly ever changes things during match.
Subs: Usually only due to injuries.
Players: Usually old dogs, does not recognise young talent and will not play them. Ramsay eg Cup Final.
Motivation: Couldn't lift us at Wembley twice. Portsmouth,Blackpool, Ipswich, Reading all massive games where we were shite.
Fans: Does not respect fans or their feelings.
He did move us forward at a massive price but failed to deliver to Club and the fans.
I have been as honest as I can and wish Wed well as they are a big club with great support. bloobirds68
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:22 pm
Private messageE-mail bloobirds68 Top
Re: What the sheff wed fans say on JONES
by bloobirds68 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:53 pm
Plusses for Wednesday: He will get money to spend,if City was anything to go by, hopefully for players and not himself, alleged to be on £760k pa with us and backroom staff on mega money also.
Can turn a bad un into a good un. If Wed have any?
Minuses: Not good at PR and dealing with the Media but may have learnt after City. Dour most of the time.
Tactics: 4 4 2 frustratingly hardly ever changes things during match.
Subs: Usually only due to injuries.
Players: Usually old dogs, does not recognise young talent and will not play them. Ramsay eg Cup Final.
Motivation: Couldn't lift us at Wembley twice. Portsmouth,Blackpool, Ipswich, Reading all massive games where we were shite.
Fans: Does not respect fans or their feelings.
He did move us forward at a massive price but failed to deliver to Club and the fans.
I have been as honest as I can and wish Wed well as they are a big club with great support. bloobirds68
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:22 pm
Private messageE-mail bloobirds68 Top
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:01 pm
I think it's going a bit too far in saying that he doesn't respect fans or their feelings 
Good article though; sums things up pretty well.
Good article though; sums things up pretty well.
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:08 pm
Cwmann_Bluebird wrote:I think it's going a bit too far in saying that he doesn't respect fans or their feelings
Good article though; sums things up pretty well.
Perhaps? I know how gutted I felt after all these matches and did not feel that DJ gave any explanation or acknowledgement of our feelings or did I miss something?
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:34 pm
Sorry but that was a very PC version of how Dave Jones was like. "He bought the best out of koumas and Bothroyd 
. Jason Koumas : how many times did he play last season ? And when he did he had a brilliant 5 minutes at Doncaster. And Jay fook me he refused to play for Jones the last half of the season and when i say that i mean he wouldn't put a shift in.
Then he said he was forced to sell Ramsey fook me Ramsey was forced out of the Club by Jones. Sorry but that article made me want to throw up.
. Jason Koumas : how many times did he play last season ? And when he did he had a brilliant 5 minutes at Doncaster. And Jay fook me he refused to play for Jones the last half of the season and when i say that i mean he wouldn't put a shift in.Then he said he was forced to sell Ramsey
fook me Ramsey was forced out of the Club by Jones. Sorry but that article made me want to throw up.
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:55 pm
bought players for peanuts and sold on for big dollar
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:57 pm
Nuclearblue wrote:Sorry but that was a very PC version of how Dave Jones was like. "He bought the best out of koumas and Bothroyd
Then he said he was forced to sell Ramsey
fair play you talk some shit.
no wonder you get on so well with your bum chum from down west
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:15 pm
Koumas was coming back from a long term injury and wasn't match fit.for.a.while he wasn't the.same.player first time round Jones got him implant from wesr brim, how.can u say bothroyd wouldn't play for.Jones, he was.the reason he came in first place
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:17 pm
citybluechris wrote:Koumas was coming back from a long term injury and wasn't match fit.for.a.while he wasn't the.same.player first time round Jones got him implant from wesr brim, how.can u say bothroyd wouldn't play for.Jones, he was.the reason he came in first place
your wasting your time mate their idiots. jones was right. idiots.
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:21 pm
Think I need to re check my writing after using my mobile to post on here LOL polo your right no use trying to talk sense to some posters
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:23 pm
citybluechris wrote:Think I need to re check my writing after using my mobile to post on here LOL polo your right no use trying to talk sense to some posters
ive given up mate theres no point. bitter as lemons some and nukes especially just
follows what annis says.
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:43 pm
Always like Jones, I'll always think he did well for us.
He departed at the right time, I wish him well but now glad he has gone.
He departed at the right time, I wish him well but now glad he has gone.
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:44 pm
2blue2handle wrote:Always like Jones, I'll always think he did well for us.
He departed at the right time, I wish him well but now glad he has gone.
doing the business at wednesday already
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:47 pm
polo wrote:2blue2handle wrote:Always like Jones, I'll always think he did well for us.
He departed at the right time, I wish him well but now glad he has gone.
doing the business at wednesday already
Played Bury at home.
Wed already 3rd in the league.
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:52 pm
Forever Blue wrote:polo wrote:2blue2handle wrote:Always like Jones, I'll always think he did well for us.
He departed at the right time, I wish him well but now glad he has gone.
doing the business at wednesday already
Played Bury at home.
Wed already 3rd in the league.
Forever Blue wrote:polo wrote:2blue2handle wrote:Always like Jones, I'll always think he did well for us.
He departed at the right time, I wish him well but now glad he has gone.
doing the business at wednesday already
Played Bury at home.
Wed already 3rd in the league.
Hmm 4-1 in his first game. Working his attacking magic already.
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:04 pm
polo wrote:Nuclearblue wrote:Sorry but that was a very PC version of how Dave Jones was like. "He bought the best out of koumas and Bothroyd
Then he said he was forced to sell Ramsey
fair play you talk some shit.
no wonder you get on so well with your bum chum from down west
Fair play coming from the biggest bullshitter on here. You are a master at talking out of your arse
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:07 pm
citybluechris wrote:Koumas was coming back from a long term injury and wasn't match fit.for.a.while he wasn't the.same.player first time round Jones got him implant from wesr brim, how.can u say bothroyd wouldn't play for.Jones, he was.the reason he came in first place
Read my post again i said in the sense "he wouldn't put a shift in" And he didnt he spent all his time on his arse. Now please remove yourself from Polos backside.
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:21 pm
polo wrote:Forever Blue wrote:polo wrote:2blue2handle wrote:Always like Jones, I'll always think he did well for us.
He departed at the right time, I wish him well but now glad he has gone.
doing the business at wednesday already
Played Bury at home.
Wed already 3rd in the league.Forever Blue wrote:polo wrote:2blue2handle wrote:Always like Jones, I'll always think he did well for us.
He departed at the right time, I wish him well but now glad he has gone.
doing the business at wednesday already
Played Bury at home.
Wed already 3rd in the league.
Hmm 4-1 in his first game. Working his attacking magic already.
thanks for the comic relief
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:23 pm
Why wouldn't he put a shift in for Jones? And for the polo backside comment don't knw the guy agree with somethings he says and disagree with other things, my comment wasn't to back polo it was.from my own personal point of view but carry on with them silly comments by all means.
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:41 pm
citybluechris wrote:Why wouldn't he put a shift in for Jones? And for the polo backside comment don't knw the guy agree with somethings he says and disagree with other things, my comment wasn't to back polo it was.from my own personal point of view but carry on with them silly comments by all means.
"No use trying to talk sense to some posters" I dont need to add anything to that do i ? And regarding Bothroyd !! After his England Cap and he was refused permission to talk to Fulham do you honestly think Jay gave Cardiff City 100% ? Because in my opinion if not yours i dont believe he even tried for most games. Now i am in the opinion that Jay is a top notch player, he could of been a great but his attitude has let him down his entire career, and has done again at QPR. As i said that is my opinion.
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:47 pm
Yes I said some posters did not highlight you so don't think it was aimed at you I just agreed why polo said about some posters not because I replied to your orginal post, I agree bothroyd performancees dropped after England.cap but a lot of factors affects players form
Re: " Cracking Dave Jones Write Up "
Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:49 pm
Nuclearblue wrote:citybluechris wrote:Why wouldn't he put a shift in for Jones? And for the polo backside comment don't knw the guy agree with somethings he says and disagree with other things, my comment wasn't to back polo it was.from my own personal point of view but carry on with them silly comments by all means.
"No use trying to talk sense to some posters" I dont need to add anything to that do i ? And regarding Bothroyd !! After his England Cap and he was refused permission to talk to Fulham do you honestly think Jay gave Cardiff City 100% ? Because in my opinion if not yours i dont believe he even tried for most games. Now i am in the opinion that Jay is a top notch player, he could of been a great but his attitude has let him down his entire career, and has done again at QPR. As i said that is my opinion.
An opinion that N.Warnock and M.Hughes appear to share with you!