SELF DESTRUCTING REGIONAL RUGBY

Watched the program last night on regional rugby, and the only surprise I had was they can't seem to understand where their audience has disappeared to.

They have created 4 regions with little identity, other than the Scarlets which is the one area with crowds, all these are based along the South Coast with nothing 3 miles north of the coastline.

The old rivalry and identity people felt for their clubs such as Pontypridd, Pooler Ebbw vale, Bridgend etc.has been diluted or destroyed, these araeas are no longer part of the community and don't identify with their fans.

The kick off times as with football are all over the place to suit TV, and the competitions keep changing names.

I have always had an interest of sorts and identified with Pontypridd, and even played there long after I had been a fan first( but only when not clashing with the City, anyone who questions my loyalty to the City, really don't know me)

Now personally I don't know what competition the Blues even play in, is it still the Anglo Irish cup or league, or the European League or some sort of shield etc, ain't got a clue, don't even know who their rivals are, I know Munster and Leinster are big Irish teams and we play them some times, but what competition is that, don't even know when their season starts or ends now days.
They on self destruct, and so be it.

Gwyn, I am not a rugby fan as you know, but I watched the whole programme, regional rugby in Wales is in serious trouble. The 3 main clubs average 7,500 and the other 5,500. They need to include the Pontypridd's and Pontypool's of this world. Personally if club rugby is to survive in Wales they need to go back to the days of clubs like Neath and Pontypridd.

f**k em.

The sooner the Ospreys piss off to Neath or Bridgend the better for us Jacks.We had the best surface in the country a couple of years ago.Now we have Arsene Wenger saying our pitch is poor.4000 crowds in a 20k arena just aint working.

Gwyn,
Loved the quote last night, "Cardiff Blues only attract half the crowds that City do"
Well every time I flick the TV over when they are playing, to say half the crowds is streching it by about 4-5 k.

Yeah, it has also ruined local rugby clubs around the valleys. We used to play skittles across the valleys in the Whitchurch and District League and about 10-15 years ago the rugby clubs we played at in the valleys were buzzing. However, now they are all derelict and barely surviving.

I was never a rugby fan but if it went back to local club rugby I think I would actually be more interested in it. The Blues have such a generic identity now that they may well be "Cardiff" but I just see them as a random team and don't have any affiliation with them.

Is it too late for them to go back to playing the way they did though? I would love to see a Welsh league with only Welsh teams in it though.

football in wales in mainly played on the coast with nothing 3 miles north of the coastline.....remind me again how much cardiff city are in debt?.....how much are the malaysians pumping in each month to keep the club going?....

Agree, places like Pontypridd, Bridgend, etc were thriving rugby strongholds before the introduction of the regions. Then we had the Celtic Warriors and at the time their identity was lost they were arguably the strongest region. There was a gulf between The Blues in the east and the Ospreys in the west. A large number of rugby following supporters were lost overnight.

I suggest that a lot of supporters could not identify themselves with either region and did not want to travel the distance to go and see a region some distance away. I believe Neath are currently well supported. In comparison look at the crowds at the Liberty Stadium. With the quality of players on view the crowds should be a lot bigger. Even though money is tight the fan base is not there. There are thousands of rugby supporters just not interested in going to support teams that they are not 'affiliated' with.

Watched the program last night on regional rugby, and the only surprise I had was they can't seem to understand where their audience has disappeared to.

They have created 4 regions with little identity, other than the Scarlets which is the one area with crowds, all these are based along the South Coast with nothing 3 miles north of the coastline.

The old rivalry and identity people felt for their clubs such as Pontypridd, Pooler Ebbw vale, Bridgend etc.has been diluted or destroyed, these araeas are no longer part of the community and don't identify with their fans.

The kick off times as with football are all over the place to suit TV, and the competitions keep changing names.

I have always had an interest of sorts and identified with Pontypridd, and even played there long after I had been a fan first( but only when not clashing with the City, anyone who questions my loyalty to the City, really don't know me)

Now personally I don't know what competition the Blues even play in, is it still the Anglo Irish cup or league, or the European League or some sort of shield etc, ain't got a clue, don't even know who their rivals are, I know Munster and Leinster are big Irish teams and we play them some times, but what competition is that, don't even know when their season starts or ends now days.
They on self destruct, and so be it.

the whole regional rugby episode has been a farce because when the WRU disbanded the warriors they left two of the most passionate regions within welsh rugby like pontypridd and bridgend without a team in the top tier of rugby.
Some of those morons actually thought that ponty fans would attach themselves to cardiff blues.
The whole regional thing was to amalgamate area's to make welsh rugby stonger but the truth of the matter is llanelli are still a stand alone club(not region) alongside cardiff and newport.
all the advent of regional rugby has done is seen giants like neath, pontypool, pontypridd and bridgend who had big fan bases and fantastic histories be downgraded to the same status as teams like caerphilly and bedwas ( no disrespect to those clubs)

Ponty v Cardiff on Boxing day had a crowd of well over 5,000 which is not bad for what's now the 2nd tier and sometimes semi-pro league of Welsh rugby , Gwyn Im a Ponty fan too and no way can I relate to or even consider following a region . Cardiff Blues always will be Cardiff RFC for me and no way will any Ponty fan support them , how many Neath fans gave up on the Ospreys when they were based in Swansea ? Valley fans ned a new region but I somehow cant see it happening without a major financial backer ..... and huge improvement to Sardis Road too .

I can remember going to see Ponty play Neath in the cup final (SWALEC I think?) and you couldn't get a ticket for love nor money. That was in the old stadium but it wasn't that long ago. The interest in those cup finals were incredible.

These days you could play that cup final in my back garden and I'd not need to borrow chairs off next doors patio.

The levels of shear complacency is criminal in the rugby game. Fuelled by a jobs for the boys policy, where they truely beleive that rugby people make better business people. My answer to that is the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Going back a few steps - They were faced with dwindling crowds. Their answer was to reduce the number of sides. That was unbeleivable really. If for instance they got rid of Merthyr FC, would those fans go to Newport? Would they f**k! If they got rid of Cardiff City FC, would those fans go to Swansea? Please, don't make me laugh. Best part is, the people running the game STILL won't accept that.

Now I hear their latest answer to dwindling crowds is to reduce the number of sides even further. The answer to building the crowds has always been there for them to see.

You can take the regions out of Ponty ..........

For what its worth, when they switched to the regions, my old man would never go anywhere near the Ospreys games. On the flipside, if Swansea RFC were playing, he hardly missed a match.

I always thought it was a bad idea, and let's not forget that Neath were also well and truly shafted (one of the best supported teams in Wales with a rich history ). Same thing happened in Scotland, they kept Edinburgh and Glasgow going ( where hardly anyone takes any notice ) but scrapped the Borders? Probably the home of rugby in Scotland.

I didnt see the program but wish I had.
Used to love nothing more than standing at pontypool/ebbw vale in -5 condtitions
Used to love going to ponty to, remember calling Benazzi something (old ponty hooker? about his rugged good looks) and he just snarled at me, and I was terrified
Its sad to see it going the way it is, especially when you watch a match between munster and leinster and they have well over 50,000 there just for a bog standard league game.

A very sad situation.

The only way to recover is a massive overhaul.
A 12 club league just in South Wales to rekindle derby passions for starters.

Get rid of all the nonsense cups and leagues.

The national side look likely to dominate the northen hemisphere for a good while though?

I didnt see the program but wish I had.
Used to love nothing more than standing at pontypool/ebbw vale in -5 condtitions
Used to love going to ponty to, remember calling Benazzi something (old ponty hooker? about his rugged good looks) and he just snarled at me, and I was terrified
Its sad to see it going the way it is, especially when you watch a match between munster and leinster and they have well over 50,000 there just for a bog standard league game.

Get it right now....Leinster lady Boys

I think the WRU missed a trick when introducing the Regions.

When first started only Neath/Swansea and Pontypridd/Bridgend took to the Regions.

The other 3, LLANELLI Scarlets, CARDIFF Blues and NEWPORT Gwent Dragons were just like super clubs.

I can only look at it from my perspective, but as a kid I followed Newbridge Rugby, and loved the old derby games - Pontypool, Cross Keys, Newport etc......
But once it turned to NEWPORT Gwent Dragons there was no way on this planet I was going to support NEWPORT.

The WRU needed to get rid of these club names and move the games around the regions.

I think the WRU missed a trick when introducing the Regions.

When first started only Neath/Swansea and Pontypridd/Bridgend took to the Regions.

The other 3, LLANELLI Scarlets, CARDIFF Blues and NEWPORT Gwent Dragons were just like super clubs.

I can only look at it from my perspective, but as a kid I followed Newbridge Rugby, and loved the old derby games - Pontypool, Cross Keys, Newport etc......
But once it turned to NEWPORT Gwent Dragons there was no way on this planet I was going to support NEWPORT.

The WRU needed to get rid of these club names and move the games around the regions.

Wales was always too divided, when it came to rugby and they couldn't come up with some contrived regions to get people to unite behind them. Add that to the fact that they overestimated the popularity of rugby in this country and disaster was sure to follow.

Let's face it, most of the country watch the Six Nations but, other than that, they don't tend to bother.

They need to reintroduce a valleys Regional side because with the demise of the Celtic Warriors a massive amount of support was lost from the Valleys who watched Ponty and the Bridgend area who obviously watched Bridgend i don't believe very many of these supporters go to watch either the Blues or the Ospreys.

The big stumbling block to introducing a valleys based region is money but if they don't do something and soon all our best players will be playing abroad and the crowds will shrink even further I love the City and they will always come first but I also enjoy my Rugby and i am involved with our local Club but I really do fear for the professional game in Wales

They need to reintroduce a valleys Regional side because with the demise of the Celtic Warriors a massive amount of support was lost from the Valleys who watched Ponty and the Bridgend area who obviously watched Bridgend i don't believe very many of these supporters go to watch either the Blues or the Ospreys.

The big stumbling block to introducing a valleys based region is money but if they don't do something and soon all our best players will be playing abroad and the crowds will shrink even further I love the City and they will always come first but I also enjoy my Rugby and i am involved with our local Club but I really do fear for the professional game in Wales

I watch Neath now and again, home and away and they've got some great supporters. Most of them don't watch the Ospreys, either in person or on the telly, because they feel it's Swansea RFC by another name, since they deserted The Gnoll.

Posted about this subject last night;

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70909

Didn't realize that BBC Wales broadcast a program about it last night,,,,kept that quiet!

Gwyn, I am not a rugby fan as you know, but I watched the whole programme, regional rugby in Wales is in serious trouble. The 3 main clubs average 7,500 and the other 5,500. They need to include the Pontypridd's and Pontypool's of this world. Personally if club rugby is to survive in Wales they need to go back to the days of clubs like Neath and Pontypridd.

That simply wasn't working. Even our best clubs were getting hammered by the best English and French teams simply because our best 20 players of international class were distributed between 12 clubs ie. just one or two per club. Now that there are just four regions our best 20 players are spread between four teams ie an average of 5 per team thus making them far more competitive (although still room for improvement). Also the regions have far greater resources because the WRU pumps money into 4 regions instead of 12 clubs therefore they have more money to develop their academies which are now producing an excellent crop of good young players. There is no way that they can do away with the regions...and generally they are working in the way in which they were intended but they are having terrible problems connecting with supporters. They need to address that problem by becoming far more innovative and by working together on the problem. Not impossible but will take some time and effort. Anyway the clubs are still there but they have a differnt role these days.

A counter argument is the national team is stronger that its been since the 70s/80s. Has that been helped by all our players pooled into 4 regions?

A counter argument is the national team is stronger that its been since the 70s/80s. Has that been helped by all our players pooled into 4 regions?

no just luck

A counter argument is the national team is stronger that its been since the 70s/80s. Has that been helped by all our players pooled into 4 regions?

no just luck

The regions and regional academies are not just luck. They are the future.

Spot on Gwyn ! I'll always be a Bluebird first! but i'ts a shame that the WRU hav n't taken into account the true feelings of the population of the valleys, which is huge ! There should be a regional team that is closer to the valleys and identifies with the communities. This is where the WRU have failed to recognise.

I didnt see the program but wish I had.
Used to love nothing more than standing at pontypool/ebbw vale in -5 condtitions
Used to love going to ponty to, remember calling Benazzi something (old ponty hooker?PROP U COCK about his rugged good looks) and he just snarled at me, and I was terrified
Its sad to see it going the way it is, especially when you watch a match between munster and leinster and they have well over 50,000 there just for a bog standard league game.

duh

Gwyn, I am not a rugby fan as you know, but I watched the whole programme, regional rugby in Wales is in serious trouble. The 3 main clubs average 7,500 and the other 5,500. They need to include the Pontypridd's and Pontypool's of this world. Personally if club rugby is to survive in Wales they need to go back to the days of clubs like Neath and Pontypridd.

That simply wasn't working. Even our best clubs were getting hammered by the best English and French teams simply because our best 20 players of international class were distributed between 12 clubs ie. just one or two per club. Now that there are just four regions our best 20 players are spread between four teams ie an average of 5 per team thus making them far more competitive (although still room for improvement). Also the regions have far greater resources because the WRU pumps money into 4 regions instead of 12 clubs therefore they have more money to develop their academies which are now producing an excellent crop of good young players. There is no way that they can do away with the regions...and generally they are working in the way in which they were intended but they are having terrible problems connecting with supporters. They need to address that problem by becoming far more innovative and by working together on the problem. Not impossible but will take some time and effort. Anyway the clubs are still there but they have a differnt role these days.

how many teams are home international footballers shared with??

A counter argument is the national team is stronger that its been since the 70s/80s. Has that been helped by all our players pooled into 4 regions?

milly a lot of our better players are now crossing the channel to play in france

Watched the program last night on regional rugby, and the only surprise I had was they can't seem to understand where their audience has disappeared to.

They have created 4 regions with little identity, other than the Scarlets which is the one area with crowds, all these are based along the South Coast with nothing 3 miles north of the coastline.

The old rivalry and identity people felt for their clubs such as Pontypridd, Pooler Ebbw vale, Bridgend etc.has been diluted or destroyed, these araeas are no longer part of the community and don't identify with their fans.

The kick off times as with football are all over the place to suit TV, and the competitions keep changing names.

I have always had an interest of sorts and identified with Pontypridd, and even played there long after I had been a fan first( but only when not clashing with the City, anyone who questions my loyalty to the City, really don't know me)

Now personally I don't know what competition the Blues even play in, is it still the Anglo Irish cup or league, or the European League or some sort of shield etc, ain't got a clue, don't even know who their rivals are, I know Munster and Leinster are big Irish teams and we play them some times, but what competition is that, don't even know when their season starts or ends now days.
They on self destruct, and so be it.

IMO Gwyn we havent moved on from the Whitbread Merit league we used to have. My local team at that time were Newbridge now whenever they played Cardiff, Llanelli, Pooler, Newport, Neath etc it was packed to the rafters , the floodlights on and a great atmosphere. The same all over crowds were up you could go to Pontypridd thered be 8,000 there, Newbridge were taking hundreds away to Neath on a Weds. All I see now is a sad state of afffairs and massive fragmentation. The fans have walked and also the youngsters are not playing rugby in the schools and the greats are fading away. Soon the 6th Nations will become like the Superbowl an even bigger event all for the crack and piss up and the club sides will fall away. It really does seem to be dying on its feet at grass roots level. i would abolish the regions and create a top flight again with leading club sides and watch the crowds return