Well Done Qantas for taking hard-line action

Thats double standards saying that and having an avatar such as yours is'nt it?
Oh and by the way, i think you are wrong.

and kicked the unions right into touch.

i agree that unions can be very disruptive and extreme,but the ordinary working man needs protection from some employers

and kicked the unions right into touch.

i agree that unions can be very disruptive and extreme,but the ordinary working man needs protection from some employers

These days unlike the 70's and 80's you have employment rights and thats were ACAS come into play and they do not charge a monthly fee to pay for the union leaders' pay.

Bollocks. the Working man had rights in the 70's and 80's!! Difference was
that the employers knew they had the Unions to contend with too. Some
Unions went too far. Now employers shit on staff at every turn.

ACAS can be handy if you've been unfairly dismissed

Try ringing ACAS if you've had your contract of employment terminated
and are told to re-apply for your job (at £100 a week less).. they will say
its 'not within their parameters'

Try ringing ACAS if your employer hasnt given you a pay rise for 5 years

There was a lot wrong with Unions, but Thatcher disabled them completely
and left the doors wide open for Employers to shit on their workers

"Notts miners - your jobs are safe, dont trust the Unions!"

On your Tory soapbox again watch you dont fall off

Where is your source on scar gill's house being paid for? Just think long and hard before you answer as Arthur is a good mate of mine

and kicked the unions right into touch.

I bet in your past life you were one of them that applauded Churchills troops in Tonypandy

and kicked the unions right into touch.

i agree that unions can be very disruptive and extreme,but the ordinary working man needs protection from some employers

These days unlike the 70's and 80's you have employment rights and thats were ACAS come into play and they do not charge a monthly fee to pay for the union leaders' pay.

Bollocks. the Working man had rights in the 70's and 80's!! Difference was
that the employers knew they had the Unions to contend with too. Some
Unions went too far. Now employers shit on staff at every turn.

ACAS can be handy if you've been unfairly dismissed

Try ringing ACAS if you've had your contract of employment terminated
and are told to re-apply for your job (at £100 a week less).. they will say
its 'not within their parameters'

Try ringing ACAS if your employer hasnt given you a pay rise for 5 years

There was a lot wrong with Unions, but Thatcher disabled them completely
and left the doors wide open for Employers to shit on their workers

"Notts miners - your jobs are safe, dont trust the Unions!"

If people don't like a job for whatever reason then look elsewhere. Until union leaders give up their HUGE salaries then why should the working man/woman trust them to represent them..? Scargill still gets his home in London paid for by NUM!!!!

Well thats you to an unsurprising tee.

I believe in a fair days work for a fair days pay. You obviously dont.

and kicked the unions right into touch.

i agree that unions can be very disruptive and extreme,but the ordinary working man needs protection from some employers

These days unlike the 70's and 80's you have employment rights and thats were ACAS come into play and they do not charge a monthly fee to pay for the union leaders' pay.

Bollocks. the Working man had rights in the 70's and 80's!! Difference was
that the employers knew they had the Unions to contend with too. Some
Unions went too far. Now employers shit on staff at every turn.

ACAS can be handy if you've been unfairly dismissed

Try ringing ACAS if you've had your contract of employment terminated
and are told to re-apply for your job (at £100 a week less).. they will say
its 'not within their parameters'

Try ringing ACAS if your employer hasnt given you a pay rise for 5 years

There was a lot wrong with Unions, but Thatcher disabled them completely
and left the doors wide open for Employers to shit on their workers

"Notts miners - your jobs are safe, dont trust the Unions!"

If people don't like a job for whatever reason then look elsewhere. Until union leaders give up their HUGE salaries then why should the working man/woman trust them to represent them..? Scargill still gets his home in London paid for by NUM!!!!

Well thats you to an unsurprising tee.

I believe in a fair days work for a fair days pay. You obviously dont.[/quote]

People know the terms bvefore they accept a job and signed acceptance forms. We dont live in the USSR where you have to take jobs you are offered you know.[/quote]

So you dont believe in a fair days work for a fair days pay then?

and kicked the unions right into touch.

The unions had too much power in the 70's however the bosses now have way to much power workers need unions to protect them

and kicked the unions right into touch.

i agree that unions can be very disruptive and extreme,but the ordinary working man needs protection from some employers

These days unlike the 70's and 80's you have employment rights and thats were ACAS come into play and they do not charge a monthly fee to pay for the union leaders' pay.

Bollocks. the Working man had rights in the 70's and 80's!! Difference was
that the employers knew they had the Unions to contend with too. Some
Unions went too far. Now employers shit on staff at every turn.

ACAS can be handy if you've been unfairly dismissed

Try ringing ACAS if you've had your contract of employment terminated
and are told to re-apply for your job (at £100 a week less).. they will say
its 'not within their parameters'

Try ringing ACAS if your employer hasnt given you a pay rise for 5 years

There was a lot wrong with Unions, but Thatcher disabled them completely
and left the doors wide open for Employers to shit on their workers

"Notts miners - your jobs are safe, dont trust the Unions!"

If people don't like a job for whatever reason then look elsewhere. Until union leaders give up their HUGE salaries then why should the working man/woman trust them to represent them..? Scargill still gets his home in London paid for by NUM!!!!

Well thats you to an unsurprising tee.

I believe in a fair days work for a fair days pay. You obviously dont.

People know the terms bvefore they accept a job and signed acceptance forms. We dont live in the USSR where you have to take jobs you are offered you know.[/quote]

So you dont believe in a fair days work for a fair days pay then?[/quote]

Once again you are trying to put words in my mouth. Is there not a law in this country that states an employee should receive a minimum amount ?

I am a firm believer that you make your own luck in this world. I have 3 full time jobs because I've made a couple of mistakes along the line but want my household income to stay the same. Because of this my personal life is far worse than it used to be but that is my fault and no-one else's.

So the point I am trying to make is that this country would be far better off if people took personal responsibility more seriously rather than blaming any old tom, Dick or abdul for their problems..[/quote]

If people don't like a job for whatever reason then look elsewhere

Your words not mine.

Forget the lazy scroungers for a minute. cos there are far more honest people out there
who are struggling like f**k to make ends meet. They CANNOT leave a job if it dont pay
enough, not unless they find one that pays more cos the DSS wont give them any money.
By the same token, decent people cannot turn down shitty jobs because.... the DSS will
stop their money. Its called the poverty trap. Scargill never engineered it. The Tories and
British Industry did. The minimum wage is an absolute disgrace, families cannot have a
life living on that kind of shite

You got three jobs? Cant fault you. I personally have to travel all over Britain all week every
week to make ends meet, to keep my head above water. Not everyone is in a position to do
that. Not everybody can FIND three jobs, not everyone has the means to travel to one job let
alone three.

Employers SHIT on workers in Britain. That shit is called the minimum wage, and the government
have the brass neck to make out they've done British people a favour by bringing it in

Well that that flat was written in Scargills last employment contract perhaps he should go to Acas - bell end !!!

Employers SHIT on workers in Britain. That shit is called the minimum wage, and the government
have the brass neck to make out they've done British people a favour by bringing it in[/color]

Tarring all employers as being 'SHIT' (your word) just shows the ignorant mind which you have. 'If' people don't like being an employee then its simple to set-up on your own.

You tarred ALL Trade Unionist Leaders as greedy bastards, thats ok then is it? Not ignorant?


If people don't like a job for whatever reason then look elsewhere

The most ignorant statement you've made on here since, erm... Cardiff City going
after Man City defenders

Unemployment is at 3 million and rising. Walk into a job centre and you will see the vast
majority of jobs are "satisfies minimum wage requirements".... where do you suggest all
these people look. Remembering of course that in your own words, if they dont like a job
they can look elsewhere. I will go anywhere for work. But am fully aware that not everyone
else is in a position to do that. So i dont look down my nose at them

Employers SHIT on workers in Britain. That shit is called the minimum wage, and the government
have the brass neck to make out they've done British people a favour by bringing it in[/color]

Tarring all employers as being 'SHIT' (your word) just shows the ignorant mind which you have. 'If' people don't like being an employee then its simple to set-up on your own.

You tarred ALL Trade Unionist Leaders as greedy bastards, thats ok then is it? Not ignorant?


If people don't like a job for whatever reason then look elsewhere

The most ignorant statement you've made on here since, erm... Cardiff City going
after Man City defenders

Unemployment is at 3 million and rising. Walk into a job centre and you will see the vast
majority of jobs are "satisfies minimum wage requirements".... where do you suggest all
these people look. Remembering of course that in your own words, if they dont like a job
they can look elsewhere. I will go anywhere for work. But am fully aware that not everyone
else is in a position to do that. So i dont look down my nose at them

No you just look down your nose at every employer.

I believe in fair play. From both sides.

Again, in YOUR OWN WORDS... You reckon if an employee isnt happy... tough shit

Employers SHIT on workers in Britain. That shit is called the minimum wage, and the government
have the brass neck to make out they've done British people a favour by bringing it in[/color]

Tarring all employers as being 'SHIT' (your word) just shows the ignorant mind which you have. 'If' people don't like being an employee then its simple to set-up on your own.

You tarred ALL Trade Unionist Leaders as greedy bastards, thats ok then is it? Not ignorant?


If people don't like a job for whatever reason then look elsewhere

The most ignorant statement you've made on here since, erm... Cardiff City going
after Man City defenders

Unemployment is at 3 million and rising. Walk into a job centre and you will see the vast
majority of jobs are "satisfies minimum wage requirements".... where do you suggest all
these people look. Remembering of course that in your own words, if they dont like a job
they can look elsewhere. I will go anywhere for work. But am fully aware that not everyone
else is in a position to do that. So i dont look down my nose at them

No you just look down your nose at every employer.

I believe in fair play. From both sides.

Again, in YOUR OWN WORDS... You reckon if an employee isnt happy... tough shit

How on earth can you believe in fair play if you think ALL employers are SHIT!!! You don't give fair play to every employer as you already called them SHIT!!!

You are some hypocrite Taff

"Employers SHIT on workers in Britain. That shit is called the minimum wage, and the government
have the brass neck to make out they've done British people a favour by bringing it in"

That was my statement. I did not say ALL employers, that would be stupid. There are obviously
decent gaffers who believe that their workers deserve a fair wage for helping them keep their
businesses ticking over

"If people don't like a job for whatever reason then look elsewhere"

That WAS your statement. You silly man. You ARE saying that whatever hardships
or working conditions or crap wages are thrown at a man. Tough shit.

Its like shelling peas with you, you really are an idiot

People know the terms bvefore they accept a job and signed acceptance forms. We dont live in the USSR where you have to take jobs you are offered you know.

And what if those terms are changed by the employer? Such as the bullcrap about people being made redundant, and then being asked to reapply for their jobs but for less money and less perks?

I don't care what the media say there ARE jobs out there FACT.

Not enough for everyone looking for a job though.
And that is the problem.
You can have as many jobs out there as you want, but if more people are competing for those jobs than there are jobs available, you are always going to have a problem.

That is in the public sector where this happened in the private sector a long time ago because Gordon Brown robbed millions out of the private sector pensions. Yet its ok if a socialist government do it to the private sector workers but when the centre right government do it to the private sector then all hell breakes lose.

Two wrongs do not make a right though.
And if you look at what the unions are saying, they are supporting private sector employees who are unhappy with how they are being treated too.

Nothing stopping people taking more personal responsiblity and setting up on their own FACT

Apart from:
1 - Skills.
2 - Experience.
3 - Money.
4 - Other practicalities such as a place of business etc etc.
5 - Time (some people help look after ill relatives etc).

And the fact that I very much doubt there is room for 2.5 million new businesses.

she would make sure that I would get a bucket and ladder to clean windows rather than being lazy.

So what would you do if there were already more than enough window cleaners about? Which is exactly what would happen if everyone who is unemployed took your advice.

They are saying that now years after the private sector workers got done over by the socialist government. There's no way the unions would have taken on the Labour government at the time. Yet when the government changes colour then they want to help everyone. BLOODY HYPOCRITES

First point, the last Labour government were no where near socialist (indeed they pushed for more private involvement in the public sector - which is pretty much the opposite of what a socialist government would do).
Secondly, if you actually look, then yes the unions were up in arms about many things Labour tried to do.

Sorry how many national strikes did public sectors workers take out during a labour government..? NONE

Mainly because they didn't need to.
This time they are fighting for their livelihoods. You have to be a bit stupid not to fight for that.

but yet they didn't give a shit when it was only effecting the private sector workers.

And you really think it would be any different if it was the other way around??

Let me tell you and this is from someone who is employed by BOTH sectors. It is a complete MYTH that public sector workers are worse off then public sector workers and absolute myth.

It depends on what job you are doing.
The reason the averages are lower in the private sector is because a lot of the low paid work that needs to be done in the public sector has been outsourced to private companies. If you take similar jobs, then there really isn't much difference at all.

In any case, I don't see why that matters.
People like you seem to love employers shitting all over their staff. Why?
You clearly are bitter about it happening to private sector employees (even perhaps yourself), so why are you so happy for public sector workers to have to suffer?

There were plenty of private sector workers supporting the miners

I mean now. As a society we have gotten a lot more selfish since the miners strike.
Indeed, it is shown by the fact many people (indeed like yourself) seem to be enjoying the idea of people not getting a fair deal from their employer (the state).

My taxes go towards the public sector and I want whats best for my money. Is getting the best deal for your money such a bad thing..?

I am guessing you have never heard of the idea about keeping workers happy?
Happy workers will give you a better deal.
Employees who are pissed off and who are frightened for their jobs will not give you a better deal.

There were plenty of private sector workers supporting the miners

I mean now. As a society we have gotten a lot more selfish since the miners strike.
Indeed, it is shown by the fact many people (indeed like yourself) seem to be enjoying the idea of people not getting a fair deal from their employer (the state).

My taxes go towards the public sector and I want whats best for my money. Is getting the best deal for your money such a bad thing..?

I am guessing you have never heard of the idea about keeping workers happy?
Happy workers will give you a better deal.
Employees who are pissed off and who are frightened for their jobs will not give you a better deal.

The amount of time Ive been in recruitment I can tell you one thing and that is whatever package you offer a person they always want more.

In many public sector jobs you have things like flexi time, day off for the queens birthday, day off for christmas shopping, weeks and weeks of holidays, fantastic pensions, constant team building exercises and so on. So what else would you want my taxes to pay for with regards to keeping public sector workers happy..?

Remember this country is partly in the state it is because the amount of public sector employees shot up during Labours years.

id love to see you try and survive in your world
scrap human rights
scrap civil liberties
scrap employment law and unions
how exactly do you intend to live without being persecuted by everyone and anything with power

Midfield general sounds like he's got issues!

Jesus Christ, IT gets worse....

I don't care what the media say there ARE jobs out there FACT.

Not enough for everyone looking for a job though.
And that is the problem.
You can have as many jobs out there as you want, but if more people are competing for those jobs than there are jobs available, you are always going to have a problem.

Nothing stopping people taking more personal responsiblity and setting up on their own FACT. My mother used to drum it into me and said if I never had a job she would make sure that I would get a bucket and ladder to clean windows rather than being lazy and its that mentality which should be drumed into more and more people these days.

How on earth do you have 3 full time jobs and still manage to spend a big part of your day on here?
Do you not sleep? Do you not have a life? Or do you spend part of your working day on here using your employers time?

I don't care what the media say there ARE jobs out there FACT.

Not enough for everyone looking for a job though.
And that is the problem.
You can have as many jobs out there as you want, but if more people are competing for those jobs than there are jobs available, you are always going to have a problem.

Nothing stopping people taking more personal responsiblity and setting up on their own FACT. My mother used to drum it into me and said if I never had a job she would make sure that I would get a bucket and ladder to clean windows rather than being lazy and its that mentality which should be drumed into more and more people these days.

How on earth do you have 3 full time jobs and still manage to spend a big part of your day on here?
Do you not sleep? Do you not have a life? Or do you spend part of your working day on here using your employers time?

The wonders of working from home plus the use of modern mobile phones. Also as one of my jobs is my own company then I will do what I like with my working arrangements around that position.

However you are right in the respect of at the moment I have roughly around 3/4 hours sleep per day and my personal life isn't the best these days. However I made mistakes and working myself out of the hole Ive recently got myself into. Personal responsiblity you see and I know Im the only one to blame.

Fair enough, we all make mistakes, I've made plenty and will soon more than likely be paying the price.
Onwards and upwards.
I still disagree with you regarding the minimum wage. If we had a living wage then our tax payers money wouldn't need to be wasted on tax credits, if that means that companies make less profit then boohoo. Chief executives are currently paying themselves more than ever in the middle of this so called turbulant economic time, funny how it only effects some of us

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

There were plenty of private sector workers supporting the miners

I mean now. As a society we have gotten a lot more selfish since the miners strike.
Indeed, it is shown by the fact many people (indeed like yourself) seem to be enjoying the idea of people not getting a fair deal from their employer (the state).

My taxes go towards the public sector and I want whats best for my money. Is getting the best deal for your money such a bad thing..?

I am guessing you have never heard of the idea about keeping workers happy?
Happy workers will give you a better deal.
Employees who are pissed off and who are frightened for their jobs will not give you a better deal.

The amount of time Ive been in recruitment I can tell you one thing and that is whatever package you offer a person they always want more.

In many public sector jobs you have things like flexi time, day off for the queens birthday, day off for christmas shopping, weeks and weeks of holidays, fantastic pensions, constant team building exercises and so on. So what else would you want my taxes to pay for with regards to keeping public sector workers happy..?

Remember this country is partly in the state it is because the amount of public sector employees shot up during Labours years.

id love to see you try and survive in your world
scrap human rights
scrap civil liberties
scrap employment law and unions
how exactly do you intend to live without being persecuted by everyone and anything with power

I have not mentioned human rights but now you've mentioned it I would like the human rights bill to be re-visited.
I have not mentioned civil liberties but now your've mentioned it I would like that issue to be looked at too.
If you look at the whole of the topic I have constantly stated that we have employment laws in this country so whats the point of unions. Not once have I mentioned about scraping employment laws.
I would once again state that this country would be far better if personal responibility was more taken on board by people rather than blaming anyone for their problems. If it was up to me everyone would be classed as self employed in this country and you watch the work ethic change overnight if that was put in place.

you have mentioned these scrapping human rights laws and such like in other topics
whats the point of unions with the amount of employment law we have in this country is this
Do you understand every employment law legislated in this country if you do good for you but a lot of people dont and thats what the unions do tell you your rights if you dont understand them and if your heirachy at work abandons you and doesnt believe your issues you have with the company be it pay problems or bullying issues your union will step in and throw a bit more muscle in than you are capable of, unions have existed for centuries i wouldnt blatantly abandon them so quickly.
As for your idea of making every one self-employed yeah you would watch the work ethic disappear look at Greece at the moment all their citizens are self-employed and their country is in one hell of a mess where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer with no voice to cry out with which has no led to large protests.
Personal responsibility is an admirable trait but if you cant defend yourself who would you turn to in your perfect eutopia.
People like you dont know how lucky you are and i doubt you really understand the costs of what you are calling for and when you get what you want will be the first to complain thats its not fair and you want your rights back but by then my friend it will all be to late and you will find yourself living in a totalitarian state which would make the nazi party look weak.