All This Sam Hammam Stuff..........

Can you all remember near the end of Sams reign??..........we were all panicking,and wondering whether we would still have a club to support......NEVER FORGET THAT FEELING!!!!

Trouble is wolfy a lot of people have short memories.

It seems there are plenty on here that have been seduced by sams self promotion and charisma...again.

He is a clever, manipulative man .

Sam lit the touch paper that got the club firing again.

Trouble is, he damn near burnt the club down in the process.

I dont ever wish to see clemo, wright, cadman, kumar, ridsdale involved with our club again...add sam to that list too.

The main questiion I have


If you took your employer to court and threatened to put them out of business would you expect one day to get
back a job with them.

Not withstanding the bitterness towards Carl/Annis (the 3 of you are passionate city fans but someone should knock your heads together - Gwyn is ccertainly big enough)! I thought the content and the construction of tlg's article was well thought out.

Onwards and upwards.

The main questiion I have


If you took your employer to court and threatened to put them out of business would you expect one day to get
back a job with them.

There are thousands of examples of employees taking their employers to Tribunal and getting their jobs back.

Also when Sam/Langston took CCFC to court it was not with a view to putting the club out of business.

Can you all remember near the end of Sams reign??..........we were all panicking,and wondering whether we would still have a club to support......NEVER FORGET THAT FEELING!!!!

Yea I remember that feeling, top of the league 6 points clear.....

For those of you that want sam back, can i paint a potential scenario for you...

Its march, city are still second in the league, a couple of points behind qpr.

Sam arrives as director of football in a blaze of publicity. Splitting the city fans like never before.

Effectively Jones now has to report directly into sam, a man he told the media some time ago that he couldnt work for.

Jones resigns and a puppet manager is instsalled or worse still there are huge fractures in the clubs hierarchy as jones and hammam try to work together.

The last thing that a promotion chasing team needs is an earthquake like sam hammam arriving in a blaze of publicity, hugely dividing the fans at the business end of the season.

Its total madness. Surely even the most one eyed hammam fan can see that ?

maybe and i stress the word maybe, maybe having sam back is the next step in the future of cardiff city, maybe the way things are we need him as a stepping stone to the next level of development for the club....... imo the mistakes made before will not be repeated and maybe without him we might not reach the next level anytime soon.......... the other solution is that a big money man comes in and pays off ALL the clubs debts inc sams !!!!!!!

most of us DONT want sam back, i dont! but i do appreciate that he took us on when no-one would and proberly never would have, yes he went mad and didn;t really have a clue but the passion was there and it ran away with him, cardiff city was finally on the map and has continued to be thanks to him

Can you all remember near the end of Sams reign??..........we were all panicking,and wondering whether we would still have a club to support......NEVER FORGET THAT FEELING!!!!

But he was never going to close the club, it was all about a power struggle and PMG exploited the weakness in the deal, they had the nap hand at the time and the choice was to Sam, sign over the club to the new group and wait for them to honor their deal to pay it back, whether this was by loan not 2 or loan note 8 it's all to complex for me.

If they had stuck to their agreement instead of moving the goals post by jumping above Langstons as secured creditors I' feel we would never have heard of SAM again. Un-fortunatley the promises made by the new (multi million pound hedge fund investors we were promised, and as for short memories, how come people some to forget about that broken promises,almost instantly) group never materialised.

If Sam hadn't signed the club over, yes we'd have gone into admin, and possibly looking back that may have been the better option.
It would never have closed, there was too much potential profit, which has come and gone and been milked by those involved.

The main questiion I have


If you took your employer to court and threatened to put them out of business would you expect one day to get
back a job with them.

As I understand it, mafor, the request was for summary judgment due to the club's activities.

ie Not informing Langston when the heads of agreement was signed off.

Was only deemed a minor breach of the contract by the judge, not enough to grant a summary judgment, but the fact remains the club breached the agreement.

Was Hammam/Langston right to do that? Probably not. Were the clubs activities whiter than white? No. Where those club activities undertaken by the Malaysians? No.

It's not a black and white scenario.

Can you all remember near the end of Sams reign??..........we were all panicking,and wondering whether we would still have a club to support......NEVER FORGET THAT FEELING!!!!

But he was never going to close the club, it was all about a power struggle and PMG exploited the weakness in the deal, they had the nap hand at the time and the choice was to Sam, sign over the club to the new group and wait for them to honor their deal to pay it back, whether this was by loan not 2 or loan note 8 it's all to complex for me.

If they had stuck to their agreement instead of moving the goals post by jumping above Langstons as secured creditors I' feel we would never have heard of SAM again. Un-fortunatley the promises made by the new (multi million pound hedge fund investors we were promised, and as for short memories, how come people some to forget about that broken promises,almost instantly) group never materialised.

If Sam hadn't signed the club over, yes we'd have gone into admin, and possibly looking back that may have been the better option.
It would never have closed, there was too much potential profit, which has come and gone and been milked by those involved.

Gwyn, even if we accept sams version of events, which most of us dont ,you'd have to concede that the whole business over the correct identity of langston is murky in the extreme ?

Do we really want a man back at our club who operates in such a cloak and dagger way?

Do we want a man back who will split the fans to such a huge extent and at such an important time ?

Step outside of your friendship for sam and look at it completely objectively...some of you are simply too close to view things rationally.

Can you all remember near the end of Sams reign??..........we were all panicking,and wondering whether we would still have a club to support......NEVER FORGET THAT FEELING!!!!

But he was never going to close the club, it was all about a power struggle and PMG exploited the weakness in the deal, they had the nap hand at the time and the choice was to Sam, sign over the club to the new group and wait for them to honor their deal to pay it back, whether this was by loan not 2 or loan note 8 it's all to complex for me.

If they had stuck to their agreement instead of moving the goals post by jumping above Langstons as secured creditors I' feel we would never have heard of SAM again. Un-fortunatley the promises made by the new (multi million pound hedge fund investors we were promised, and as for short memories, how come people some to forget about that broken promises,almost instantly) group never materialised.

If Sam hadn't signed the club over, yes we'd have gone into admin, and possibly looking back that may have been the better option.
It would never have closed, there was too much potential profit, which has come and gone and been milked by those involved.

Gwyn, even if we accept sams version of events, which most of us dont ,you'd have to concede that the whole business over the correct identity of langston is murky in the extreme ?

Do we really want a man back at our club who operates in such a cloak and dagger way?

Do we want a man back who will split the fans to such a huge extent and at such an important time ?

Step outside of your friendship for sam and look at it completely objectively...some of you are simply too close to view things rationally.

Firstly, Spot on Gwyn.

Why are so many people so hell bent hung over on the identity of Langston thing? What f**king difference does it make who is owed the money? If I owe a lot of money to the Principality I don't barge in there demanding to know who exactly their investors are and how much each one has a stake in my house. It doesn't matter, I owe the money simple as that.

That's all we need to know is we have a loan with Langston and to be fair whoever they are they are very patient people. If you were owed the best part of £30m would you have been as patient as they have been?

Anyway the people who invested in Langston might have reasons why they don't want the world and his dog to know where their money is invested. In fact why don't you announce to the world all your financial investments OR you could just say - why the f**k should I, it's my business who and where I've made investments. I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure that hedge fund investments, like most investments, rely a lot on confidentiality.

Can you all remember near the end of Sams reign??..........we were all panicking,and wondering whether we would still have a club to support......NEVER FORGET THAT FEELING!!!!

Yea I remember that feeling, top of the league 6 points clear.....

Yeah, I remember that. Great days. Then 10 minutes from bankruptcy

Can you all remember near the end of Sams reign??..........we were all panicking,and wondering whether we would still have a club to support......NEVER FORGET THAT FEELING!!!!

Yea I remember that feeling, top of the league 6 points clear.....

Yeah, I remember that. Great days. Then 10 minutes from bankruptcy

You know that to be true do you? Or were you just buying in to the spin that was being put out at the time? As part of that exact same spin, they were telling staff at the club, in a meeting that I was in, that Sam has gone and the club is now debt free. When a member of staff asked them what about the Langston debt they said that was "Sam's debt and nothing to do with the club." Then repeated that the club was now debt free!
I suppose that was true as well was it? 10 minutes from bankruptcy my arse!

Yeah, I remember that. Great days. Then 10 minutes from bankruptcy

You know that to be true do you? Or were you just buying in to the spin that was being put out at the time? As part of that exact same spin, they were telling staff at the club, in a meeting that I was in, that Sam has gone and the club is now debt free. When a member of staff asked them what about the Langston debt they said that was "Sam's debt and nothing to do with the club." Then repeated that the club was now debt free!
I suppose that was true as well was it? 10 minutes from bankruptcy my arse!

I suppose you can prove that it wasn't true that the club were minutes from bankruptcy then?

And I mean proof, not quotes from someone who knows a guy.



There's a lot of bold statements being bandied about online but the truth of it is this - not one of us, not Carl, not Annis, not the Gunman, not me, not anybody posting on some two-bit internet forum, which in the cold light of day is all that we're doing, knows exactly what's happening at the club.

To take anything said on any internet forum as the truth is sheer stupidity and small mindedness.

Yeah, I remember that. Great days. Then 10 minutes from bankruptcy

You know that to be true do you? Or were you just buying in to the spin that was being put out at the time? As part of that exact same spin, they were telling staff at the club, in a meeting that I was in, that Sam has gone and the club is now debt free. When a member of staff asked them what about the Langston debt they said that was "Sam's debt and nothing to do with the club." Then repeated that the club was now debt free!
I suppose that was true as well was it? 10 minutes from bankruptcy my arse!

I suppose you can prove that it wasn't true that the club were minutes from bankruptcy then?

And I mean proof, not quotes from someone who knows a guy.



There's a lot of bold statements being bandied about online but the truth of it is this - not one of us, not Carl, not Annis, not the Gunman, not me, not anybody posting on some two-bit internet forum, which in the cold light of day is all that we're doing, knows exactly what's happening at the club.

To take anything said on any internet forum as the truth is sheer stupidity and small mindedness.

Exactly! So I await your evidence that the club really was 10 minutes from bankruptcy. I won't hold my breath though because I know it wasn't true.

Kavanagh, Thorne, Gabbidon, Collins, McAnuff and probably Earnshaw. Everyone goes on about the players sold under Ridsdale like Ramsey, but read those names and remember we had to get rid of them due to the debts that Hammam had built up. And also remember his promise that he would never sell our crown jewels

Exactly! So I await your evidence that the club really was 10 minutes from bankruptcy. I won't hold my breath though because I know it wasn't true.

So where's your truth that we weren't 10 minutes from bankruptcy. Ok, so I believed the spin at the time and have no reason to disbelieve it now. But why are you so sure that you believe the contrary

he was no worse than the riddler was he? we will take longer to recover from the riddlers cock ups than we did to recover from sams.

Exactly! So I await your evidence that the club really was 10 minutes from bankruptcy. I won't hold my breath though because I know it wasn't true.

So where's your truth that we weren't 10 minutes from bankruptcy. Ok, so I believed the spin at the time and have no reason to disbelieve it now. But why are you so sure that you believe the contrary

Okay. The fact that the club had more assets via players alone than debts is a good start. Admin maybe, but bankruptcy definately not.

Now it's your turn to show evidence that the club was 10 mins from going out of existance please.

Exactly! So I await your evidence that the club really was 10 minutes from bankruptcy. I won't hold my breath though because I know it wasn't true.

So where's your truth that we weren't 10 minutes from bankruptcy. Ok, so I believed the spin at the time and have no reason to disbelieve it now. But why are you so sure that you believe the contrary

Okay. The fact that the club had more assets via players alone than debts is a good start. Admin maybe, but bankruptcy definately not.

Now it's your turn to show evidence that the club was 10 mins from going out of existance please.

All valuable playing assets sold yet still the debt was £24 million (before negotiations to get it down). All our 'crown jewels' sold, Sam says he won't take us to court despite the Langston debt (something I've pointed out many times on here yet still people choose to ignore) so what assets did we have that would be worth more than the debt we had? We had NP and that was it apart from the players. So extinction was very much a possibility, surely?

Exactly! So I await your evidence that the club really was 10 minutes from bankruptcy. I won't hold my breath though because I know it wasn't true.

So where's your truth that we weren't 10 minutes from bankruptcy. Ok, so I believed the spin at the time and have no reason to disbelieve it now. But why are you so sure that you believe the contrary

Bankruptcy doesn't happen in 10 minutes mate. Firstly there would have been a period of administration which could have last months

Hang on Nottage. All the f**king assets were sold AFTER he was forced out.

Anyway lets not turn this around. You made a bold statement that the club was 10 minutes from bnkruptcy. Where is your proof exactly? You are the one making the bold accusation so how about you answer some questions? Start digging out your evidence so support your claim.
How about I start making bold accusations about your employers and their financial perils without backing them up?

Can you all remember near the end of Sams reign??..........we were all panicking,and wondering whether we would still have a club to support......NEVER FORGET THAT FEELING!!!!

But he was never going to close the club, it was all about a power struggle and PMG exploited the weakness in the deal, they had the nap hand at the time and the choice was to Sam, sign over the club to the new group and wait for them to honor their deal to pay it back, whether this was by loan not 2 or loan note 8 it's all to complex for me.

If they had stuck to their agreement instead of moving the goals post by jumping above Langstons as secured creditors I' feel we would never have heard of SAM again. Un-fortunatley the promises made by the new (multi million pound hedge fund investors we were promised, and as for short memories, how come people some to forget about that broken promises,almost instantly) group never materialised.

If Sam hadn't signed the club over, yes we'd have gone into admin, and possibly looking back that may have been the better option.
It would never have closed, there was too much potential profit, which has come and gone and been milked by those involved.

Gwyn, even if we accept sams version of events, which most of us dont ,you'd have to concede that the whole business over the correct identity of langston is murky in the extreme ?

Do we really want a man back at our club who operates in such a cloak and dagger way?



Do we want a man back who will split the fans to such a huge extent and at such an important time ?

Step outside of your friendship for sam and look at it completely objectively...some of you are simply too close to view things rationally.

I keep repeating myself " I DON'T GIVE A FLYING f**k WHO LANGSTONS ARE" I don't know ho runs owns or earns profit from my mortgage with the building society, they lent me the money, I pay it them back.

If part of the agreement for what ever reason, some people who are part of Langston wish to remain anonymous, then I respect that wish, if that was the only way we could get the necessary finance to take over the Cit bank debt who amongst us wwould have objected if as it did it stopped us going into admin or out of business.

If It's sam's brother, his wife his mates. Ron Noades, Alan Sugar I JUST DON'T GIVE A f**k.

Can you all remember near the end of Sams reign??..........we were all panicking,and wondering whether we would still have a club to support......NEVER FORGET THAT FEELING!!!!

Yea I remember that feeling, top of the league 6 points clear.....

Yeah, I remember that. Great days. Then 10 minutes from bankruptcy

Are you sure or just mis informed?

But he was never going to close the club, it was all about a power struggle and PMG exploited the weakness in the deal, they had the nap hand at the time and the choice was to Sam, sign over the club to the new group and wait for them to honor their deal to pay it back, whether this was by loan not 2 or loan note 8 it's all to complex for me.

If they had stuck to their agreement instead of moving the goals post by jumping above Langstons as secured creditors I' feel we would never have heard of SAM again. Un-fortunatley the promises made by the new (multi million pound hedge fund investors we were promised, and as for short memories, how come people some to forget about that broken promises,almost instantly) group never materialised.

If Sam hadn't signed the club over, yes we'd have gone into admin, and possibly looking back that may have been the better option.
It would never have closed, there was too much potential profit, which has come and gone and been milked by those involved.[/quote]

Gwyn, even if we accept sams version of events, which most of us dont ,you'd have to concede that the whole business over the correct identity of langston is murky in the extreme ?

Do we really want a man back at our club who operates in such a cloak and dagger way?



Do we want a man back who will split the fans to such a huge extent and at such an important time ?

Step outside of your friendship for sam and look at it completely objectively...some of you are simply too close to view things rationally.[/quote]

I keep repeating myself " I DON'T GIVE A FLYING f**k WHO LANGSTONS ARE" I don't know ho runs owns or earns profit from my mortgage with the building society, they lent me the money, I pay it them back.

If part of the agreement for what ever reason, some people who are part of Langston wish to remain anonymous, then I respect that wish, if that was the only way we could get the necessary finance to take over the Cit bank debt who amongst us wwould have objected if as it did it stopped us going into admin or out of business.

If It's sam's brother, his wife his mates. Ron Noades, Alan Sugar I JUST DON'T GIVE A f**k. [/quote]

And if Hammam had 'borrowed' the money from Langston against football league rules, leading to our club being docked points or chucked out of the football league WOULD YOU GIVE A f**k THEN ?

Are you sure or just mis informed?

Maybe mis-informed, Gwyn. I'm glad you're taking the level headed answer route instead of the raniting route though I remember we were told, when Sam was ousted that the club were 10 minutes from going out of business, or going into administration, that's my information. It was a long time ago and I don't have a photographic memory, or whatever it takes to remember exactly what happened at the time. If I have been mis-informed and have projected that mis-information on here, I apologise. However, what I won't apologise for is the fact that I don't want Sam back anywhere near the club and he has been responsible for some pretty woeful mis-management of the club. He is not alone in managing things badly by any means, but what can't be disputed is he did go back on some promises and he did get the club into a hole we almost never got out of

Now it's your turn to show evidence that the club was 10 mins from going out of existance please.[/quote]
All valuable playing assets sold yet still the debt was £24 million (before negotiations to get it down). All our 'crown jewels' sold, Sam says he won't take us to court despite the Langston debt (something I've pointed out many times on here yet still people choose to ignore) so what assets did we have that would be worth more than the debt we had? We had NP and that was it apart from the players. So extinction was very much a possibility, surely?[/quote]

All the crown jewels sold, I think not, we were top of the league and six points clear when sam left, so there must have been a few crown jewels still here, and how much do you think the club raised from selling Sam's players after he'd gone, try and work it out.We sold ginge and gabs and replaced them with Johnson and Loovens, we sold kav and brought in Koumas, we sold Earnie and brought in Jerome and Chopra, sin't that how football clubs work.