Tan lovers or regime

Not all city fans are of the regime belief but that doesn't make us tan lovers. Believe it or not there is a middle ground.

Not all city fans are of the regime belief but that doesn't make us tan lovers. Believe it or not there is a middle ground.

I agree. I have always been in the Tan camp as he is our owner and supporting him felt like supporting the club or if you invert that statement, attacking him felt like attacking the club. But it is very difficult to argue that his apathy to the club has translated to the field.

I am losing interest like Vinny, I go because its a day out with my now adult daughter, but if she moves away it would be a struggle at the moment. I like seeing our kids come through and don't need the premier league, but i need some excitement or belief.

This is a summary of how I see things:

- Tan has undoubtedly financially backed every manager we have had.
- Those who are anti-Tan will praise managers for promotions and blame Tan for relegations.
- Those who are pro-Tan will praise him for promotions and the poor transfer dealings of the manager for relegations.

From my perspective, our debt has increased since Tan took power. This isn't always a bad thing as long as you progress. It could be argued that we're not receiving weekly wind-up orders, which is progress.

While that is true, on the pitch, despite two promotions to the Premier League, we are financially worse off in terms of debt, we've gone backward on the playing side, and we have a divided fanbase. The club has lost its soul, identity, and culture, and we're essentially lost and demoralized.

I am grateful for Tan's positive things and think this would be a good time to part ways.

Just on the point of debt. I don’t look at the accounts, but I assume the assets have also increased to reflect the value of the stadium. If the stadium is part of the club finances then it’s logical the debt would have increased. Not many people can build a house without a mortgage. I’m neither for or against Tan and not hung up on whether he stays or goes in time. I went to ninian park as a kid and get the romantic view of our old stadium, but would it have been considered for the Euefa Super cup in 2014? There’s pros and cons to it all isn’t there.

All good post here so far and it's good to read other peoples opinions.

When Tan first appeared I thought at last we have someone who can afford to invest in us and get us to the promise land. So I welcomed him but like everything else I do I see how it turns out. It was long before I started to question him. There are ways of doing things and it soon became clear Tan did it his way regardless if it was the right way or not. That's another subject but it made me uneasy. Then along comes the Rebrand.

Besides detesting this I believe it was the start of us going to where we are now. We should be an establish Premier club at best and a Yoyo club at worst. Now we will be lucky to remain a Championship club. You know the saying, "It's not where you start but where you finish". We were a United club when Tan first came but now we are divided. His lack of interest in us has spread through the club and down to the fanbase which is the life and soul of the club. He has done a lot of damage and his leaving us is long overdue.

Just on the point of debt. I don’t look at the accounts, but I assume the assets have also increased to reflect the value of the stadium. If the stadium is part of the club finances then it’s logical the debt would have increased. Not many people can build a house without a mortgage. I’m neither for or against Tan and not hung up on whether he stays or goes in time. I went to ninian park as a kid and get the romantic view of our old stadium, but would it have been considered for the Euefa Super cup in 2014? There’s pros and cons to it all isn’t there.

The stadium was built before the Tan era, therefore, any additional debt relating to the stadium should be minimal. Ideally, after being built, the stadium would be paying for itself.

All good post here so far and it's good to read other peoples opinions.

When Tan first appeared I thought at last we have someone who can afford to invest in us and get us to the promise land. So I welcomed him but like everything else I do I see how it turns out. It was long before I started to question him. There are ways of doing things and it soon became clear Tan did it his way regardless if it was the right way or not. That's another subject but it made me uneasy. Then along comes the Rebrand.

Besides detesting this I believe it was the start of us going to where we are now. We should be an establish Premier club at best and a Yoyo club at worst. Now we will be lucky to remain a Championship club. You know the saying, "It's not where you start but where you finish". We were a United club when Tan first came but now we are divided. His lack of interest in us has spread through the club and down to the fanbase, which is the life and soul of the club. He has done a lot of damage and his leaving us is long overdue.

Particularly agree with your second paragraph, which is essentially what I mean by being a demoralized fan base.

I think the fans have lost their fire and passion. While I am sure the love is there, I don't think people feel connected with the club anymore, and as you have stated, this comes from the top. As an owner, especially of football league clubs, the local community should be a priority. Instead, I feel like we're treated as consumers.

When you weigh everything up, we're in a worse position now than we were when he took over, in my opinion. The only thing I can place on the "improvement" side is that we no longer have weekly wind-up orders.

Some fantastic posts here and none more than the apathy from the top has spread through the whole club.

Great to see whats happening at Wrexham and the involvement with the owners and fans.

a club needs enthusiasm and direction from the top, we have not had this for years.

Some fantastic posts here and none more than the apathy from the top has spread through the whole club.

Great to see whats happening at Wrexham and the involvement with the owners and fans.

a club needs enthusiasm and direction from the top, we have not had this for years.

The one thing that really stood out for me from the Wrexham documentary is how the owners put the community at the center of everything. Such a difference to the way not only Cardiff but other Championship and Premier League clubs are now run, where the local community is just a commodity.

I do think this goes deeper than just Tan, though. The politicization of everything at football, for me at least, makes it almost insufferable. I just want to enjoy a football game, with friends, without having Ukraine, BLM, LGBT etc. rammed down my throat. Although, that's probably a separate topic in itself.

Some fantastic posts here and none more than the apathy from the top has spread through the whole club.

Great to see whats happening at Wrexham and the involvement with the owners and fans.

a club needs enthusiasm and direction from the top, we have not had this for years.

Totally agree with you some fantastic posts here.

You say in yours that the apathy at the top has spread down, here’s another way of looking at it maybe the apathy at the bottom (supporters) has spread up?

Some fantastic posts here and none more than the apathy from the top has spread through the whole club.

Great to see whats happening at Wrexham and the involvement with the owners and fans.

a club needs enthusiasm and direction from the top, we have not had this for years.

Totally agree with you some fantastic posts here.

You say in yours that the apathy at the top has spread down, here’s another way of looking at it maybe the apathy at the bottom (supporters) has spread up?

Made my point for me.

We can’t make out this is a Tan thing. Apathy was present well before Tan, we had such highs under Sam that the lows really affected us. That’s what happens with drugs, alcohol etc. We settled as a mid table championship side and crowds were lower than we had in the bottom league. Excitement was gone when we weren’t signings big name players anymore and in fact were selling our assets.

Let’s not kid ourselves. When we beat Norwich (just three months ago) we were all excited at the new signings and exciting new manager. The apathy has come since because we are losing and down the bottom end of the league.

We don’t have patience and that spreads onto the pitch and engulfs the club.

While I am not saying we are currently being run well. We aren’t without blame. Callum signing at the start of the season would have made a huge difference and we wouldn’t be having these negative posts were we up the top end which at times we have threatened.

There has been progress. We were days away from folding and facing weekly demands for debt payments. Our debt is higher but it’s responsibility lies with one man and not on the club. Massively different.

We do a need a change though. We need the excitement back.

Yep, I think the OP has nailed it.

Tan has delivered a Carling Cup Finals, 2 promotions and financial stability virtually unheard of in this club for the 50 years I’ve been a fan.

That said, maybe we do now need a change but those calling for “Tan out” need to be sure that any change doesn’t take us back to the bad old days of debts, HMRC, etc.

And by change I mean real change. Not this romantic idea of an ex-owner coming back over the hill to “save us” that would be even more divisive than the current regime.

So if a takeover is in progress (I’ll believe that when I see it !!) let’s be sure it’s right for the club and will build on the stability that we currently have.

Are we worse off? Upto a point we are but got to look at present financial situation in football to see we are in a better position than most clubs even those that been promoted after us and been relegated are suffering Norwich/wba examples of this.... what I cannot fathom out is getting in a manager like Edward's wont cost club money he wont need new players as such yet tan insists on path that is dangerous in respect
of staying in championship? I'm sure dalman as more to do with this than tan.... but it is time for all to leave and new owners to come in easier said than done..
Interesting stat for promotion to premier league its not only players wages that go up one club had to increase one dept from couple staff to 150 to cater for the extras that being in premier league brings to club.. perhaps that gives indication where the money goes...

From my perspective, over the years, I have seen many owners. I think starting with Stefan Terlezki, Bob Grogan and Kenton Utilities and a phrase that has always been used is that an owner is merely a custodian of the club. I trully believe in this.

For me I loved the Sam years. I loved the buzz he gave the club and undoubtedly he turned the club around.

I will not criticise him for running out of money and I love the fact that he has always remained a bluebird.

As for VT I am also grateful for what he has done for our club (apart from the red shirts) but as with any club we need to look forward and not look backward.

We cannot alter the past but we can alter the future

So for me the future is a simple question. VT are you prepared to invest sufficient funds into the club to take us to the Premiership?

If the answer to the question is Yes - then just do it and take us there

If the answer to the question is No - then pass the ownership onto someone who does want to take us there

From my perspective, over the years, I have seen many owners. I think starting with Stefan Terlezki, Bob Grogan and Kenton Utilities and a phrase that has always been used is that an owner is merely a custodian of the club. I trully believe in this.

For me I loved the Sam years. I loved the buzz he gave the club and undoubtedly he turned the club around.

I will not criticise him for running out of money and I love the fact that he has always remained a bluebird.

As for VT I am also grateful for what he has done for our club (apart from the red shirts) but as with any club we need to look forward and not look backward.

We cannot alter the past but we can alter the future

So for me the future is a simple question. VT are you prepared to invest sufficient funds into the club to take us to the Premiership?

If the answer to the question is Yes - then just do it and take us there

If the answer to the question is No - then pass the ownership onto someone who does want to take us there

Paul,

Same here, seen them all.

I am with you on most what youve just stated

From my perspective, over the years, I have seen many owners. I think starting with Stefan Terlezki, Bob Grogan and Kenton Utilities and a phrase that has always been used is that an owner is merely a custodian of the club. I trully believe in this.

For me I loved the Sam years. I loved the buzz he gave the club and undoubtedly he turned the club around.

I will not criticise him for running out of money and I love the fact that he has always remained a bluebird.

As for VT I am also grateful for what he has done for our club (apart from the red shirts) but as with any club we need to look forward and not look backward.

We cannot alter the past but we can alter the future

So for me the future is a simple question. VT are you prepared to invest sufficient funds into the club to take us to the Premiership?

If the answer to the question is Yes - then just do it and take us there

If the answer to the question is No - then pass the ownership onto someone who does want to take us there

Great post, Paul and I concur with all of that having seen all of those mentioned and a couple more...

Our club is only worth only what people are willing to pay for it, thats reality

Just on the point of debt. I don’t look at the accounts, but I assume the assets have also increased to reflect the value of the stadium. If the stadium is part of the club finances then it’s logical the debt would have increased. Not many people can build a house without a mortgage. I’m neither for or against Tan and not hung up on whether he stays or goes in time. I went to ninian park as a kid and get the romantic view of our old stadium, but would it have been considered for the Euefa Super cup in 2014? There’s pros and cons to it all isn’t there.

The stadium was built before the Tan era, therefore, any additional debt relating to the stadium should be minimal. Ideally, after being built, the stadium would be paying for itself.

Thought it was built about 2008 for £48m and Tan came on board 2009. I see £30m mentioned a lot as already being owed to Langston prior to the stadium build. Does that mean debt was around £78m when stadium completed? Whoever owned the club?

Just on the point of debt. I don’t look at the accounts, but I assume the assets have also increased to reflect the value of the stadium. If the stadium is part of the club finances then it’s logical the debt would have increased. Not many people can build a house without a mortgage. I’m neither for or against Tan and not hung up on whether he stays or goes in time. I went to ninian park as a kid and get the romantic view of our old stadium, but would it have been considered for the Euefa Super cup in 2014? There’s pros and cons to it all isn’t there.

The stadium was built before the Tan era, therefore, any additional debt relating to the stadium should be minimal. Ideally, after being built, the stadium would be paying for itself.

There was debts around 20 million on the stadium, Tan paid them off, fit out and pmg s loans.

Just been brought to my attention:

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I started this post because I'm fed up of people trying to push agendas and labelling anyone who doesn't agree a tan lover.
As far as I'm concerned all I want is what's best for my club, if there isn't anyone who will be better than tan atm he needs to stay, if there's someone who's going to buy us and move us forward then he needs to let this happen. All I care about is the future of the club.

I started this post because I'm fed up of people trying to push agendas and labelling anyone who doesn't agree a tan lover.
As far as I'm concerned all I want is what's best for my club, if there isn't anyone who will be better than tan atm he needs to stay, if there's someone who's going to buy us and move us forward then he needs to let this happen. All I care about is the future of the club.

What you want the best for our club, don’t make me laugh , the Dictator changed our identity for 4 years and made us a laughing stock and divided our club beyond and broke so many hearts

Well Tan 100% is not interested in the future of our club

If you really were there in the 80’s you would hate Tan beyond for what he did stripping us of our identity
Our club also should have an identity and ours is BLUE and not a badge with a worm on it.

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Just been brought to my attention:

That is such a load of rubbish.

He said he wouldn’t change our colours but wouldn’t invest the money he planned to. This resulted in a huge reverse from lots (not all) of fans.

We wanted the investment.

The majority didn’t seem to mind the red when we were winning the championship in Red with average crowds well over 22k. Higher than the previous season.

Granted there were people who hated the Red and stood their ground and they deserve massive respect, but most just wanted money in.

You can google the above. Supporters clubs were massively on board with changing colour to get investment.

Just been brought to my attention:

That is such a load of rubbish.

He said he wouldn’t change our colours but wouldn’t invest the money he planned to. This resulted in a huge reverse from lots (not all) of fans.

We wanted the investment.

The majority didn’t seem to mind the red when we were winning the championship in Red with average crowds well over 22k. Higher than the previous season.

Granted there were people who hated the Red and stood their ground and they deserve massive respect, but most just wanted money in.

You can google the above. Supporters clubs were massively on board with changing colour to get investment.

I was at every meeting, were you Neil?

We were told to our faces , NOTHING WOULD BE CHANGED

Then a few days later all change

Many were lied to red or dead.


Your right many who were glory hunters and fans who had not been going long did not care and where were they yrs ago? And where are they now?

Just been brought to my attention:

That is such a load of rubbish.

He said he wouldn’t change our colours but wouldn’t invest the money he planned to. This resulted in a huge reverse from lots (not all) of fans.

We wanted the investment.

The majority didn’t seem to mind the red when we were winning the championship in Red with average crowds well over 22k. Higher than the previous season.

Granted there were people who hated the Red and stood their ground and they deserve massive respect, but most just wanted money in.

You can google the above. Supporters clubs were massively on board with changing colour to get investment.

Aye that's right.

But you are wrong in your assessment. Most who accepted it did so because of the threat of winding up orders. No one and I mean no one wanted it but went along with it because of that and that only. Tan basically black mailed us. A bit like having a gun put to your head while the robber threatens to rape your family. In our case we were raped by having the Soul of our club destroyed.

This identity thing really makes me laugh. Yet theees no mention of all previous badge changes and kit changes that list our identity. Even our last owner changed our badge. Why was there outcrying of losing our identity then? Our previous owner also at his other club wanted to relocate them to other cities including Dublin. So seems to me our last two owners have no respect then for the club’s identities. Only difference really between them is one has had us facing winding up orders, taken the club to court to make a personal profit out of it.

There’s no doubt a new owner would be great but as it stands there won’t be one, why would anyone want to invest in us in this current climate.

Just been brought to my attention:

That is such a load of rubbish.

He said he wouldn’t change our colours but wouldn’t invest the money he planned to. This resulted in a huge reverse from lots (not all) of fans.

We wanted the investment.

The majority didn’t seem to mind the red when we were winning the championship in Red with average crowds well over 22k. Higher than the previous season.

Granted there were people who hated the Red and stood their ground and they deserve massive respect, but most just wanted money in.

You can google the above. Supporters clubs were massively on board with changing colour to get investment.

I was at every meeting, were you Neil?

We were told to our faces , NOTHING WOULD BE CHANGED

Then a few days later all change

Many were lied to red or dead.


Your right many who were glory hunters and fans who had not been going long did not care and where were they yrs ago? And where are they now?

Things change Annis.

Tan was assured the fans were on board. Many were as it meant significant investment. That was the consensus. Walesonline had a poll that showed this.

You know I admire you and others like you who were steadfast in your resolution that you didn’t want your colours changed. This isn’t a Tan thing for you. You said the same to Sam when he changed the badge.

I wasn’t at the meeting. I watched from afar in Cyprus. I must admit I wanted investment. I wasn’t arsed about the colour we wore as I wanted my team to have the investment needed to push on.

The ones I can’t be arsed about that are those that now say I never wanted Red and was always against it. They are lying. There was a couple hundred of you at most. Massive respect to those that never changed. It says a lot about peoples characters that they can stand up to the intimidation present at those meetings. That was horrible.

Still, doesn’t change that what that chap wrote on Facebook was bollocks.

Just been brought to my attention:

That is such a load of rubbish.

He said he wouldn’t change our colours but wouldn’t invest the money he planned to. This resulted in a huge reverse from lots (not all) of fans.

We wanted the investment.

The majority didn’t seem to mind the red when we were winning the championship in Red with average crowds well over 22k. Higher than the previous season.

Granted there were people who hated the Red and stood their ground and they deserve massive respect, but most just wanted money in.

You can google the above. Supporters clubs were massively on board with changing colour to get investment.

I was at every meeting, were you Neil?

We were told to our faces , NOTHING WOULD BE CHANGED

Then a few days later all change

Many were lied to red or dead.


Your right many who were glory hunters and fans who had not been going long did not care and where were they yrs ago? And where are they now?

Neil posted this guy was a bigger fan than me. I wonder if Neil thinks that now of him?

Just been brought to my attention:

That is such a load of rubbish.

He said he wouldn’t change our colours but wouldn’t invest the money he planned to. This resulted in a huge reverse from lots (not all) of fans.

We wanted the investment.

The majority didn’t seem to mind the red when we were winning the championship in Red with average crowds well over 22k. Higher than the previous season.

Granted there were people who hated the Red and stood their ground and they deserve massive respect, but most just wanted money in.

You can google the above. Supporters clubs were massively on board with changing colour to get investment.

Aye that's right.

But you are wrong in your assessment. Most who accepted it did so because of the threat of winding up orders. No one and I mean no one wanted it but went along with it because of that and that only. Tan basically black mailed us. A bit like having a gun put to your head while the robber threatens to rape your family. In our case we were raped by having the Soul of our club destroyed.

Are you seriously comparing what happened to us to a family being raped.
My god.

Just been brought to my attention:

That is such a load of rubbish.

He said he wouldn’t change our colours but wouldn’t invest the money he planned to. This resulted in a huge reverse from lots (not all) of fans.

We wanted the investment.

The majority didn’t seem to mind the red when we were winning the championship in Red with average crowds well over 22k. Higher than the previous season.

Granted there were people who hated the Red and stood their ground and they deserve massive respect, but most just wanted money in.

You can google the above. Supporters clubs were massively on board with changing colour to get investment.

Aye that's right.

But you are wrong in your assessment. Most who accepted it did so because of the threat of winding up orders. No one and I mean no one wanted it but went along with it because of that and that only. Tan basically black mailed us. A bit like having a gun put to your head while the robber threatens to rape your family. In our case we were raped by having the Soul of our club destroyed.

Are you seriously comparing what happened to us to a family being raped.
My god.

Yeah, on an emotional level.