UPDATED VINCE ALM: “ No refund message on Season Tickets “

In England Radio 5 reporting this morning that stadium capacity in September will be a maximum of 30%, with 1 meter spacing. You will though be able to sit as a family of up to 4 people.
Every other row occupied with 1 meter spacing all around you.


If a club has a capacity of 30,000 Fans would see 1 in 3 games during a season.



Due to Govt law Cardiff City are being told they can not sell tickets to an event that at this moment in time or in the future dates that fans won’t be able to attend is illegal, so they can not sell tickets saying no refunds at all etc and have been advised to say the following:


The Club commits to reviewing policy at regular junctures over the coming weeks and months. Should government or governing body policy alter the intentions laid out in this statement, the Club will consider alternatives including the option of issuing pro-rata credits against future sales as recently undertaken for the 2019/20 season.



VINCE ALM:

Cardiff City Supporters Club


UPDATED:

VINCE ALM:

Current seats, moving seats for next season, can I sit in my seat?

Received quite a few queries in regards to keeping seats and moving seats as above.

These are questions I asked the club last week on behalf of the supporters and supporters club when England announced fans maybe able to return to stadiums with a 30-50% capacity in October / Nov . Unfortunately the football club were not in a position or able to put any information out regards these key questions as they have to date received no guidance from Welsh Government and local authorities on capacity and what social distance measures need to be put in place.



There will be no refunds.








viewtopic.php?f=2&t=216249



No refund message on Cardiff city website if a fixture is played behind closed doors and you do not want to have a streaming code or use one.

This has angered a lot of supporters since the announcement Monday and we totally sympathise with those feelings. We have received numerous message complaining about it and have taken it up with the football club since Monday for clarification.

We are hoping it is just a poor bit of PR as I am not sure it is legal if you cannot provide something you pay for and not have some sort of reimbursement option. Personally I think they should have at least be rolling over credit as a minimum for future tickets. I have spoken to some of the main people at the club and I am currently waiting for them to get back to me.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=216249

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=216249

Thanks Vince. It needs clarifying.

Thanks Vince. It needs clarifying.

It seems clear to me but what do I know

Cardiff City Football Club is pleased to announce that supporters will be able to secure Season Tickets for the 2020/21 season from Wednesday 22nd July at 10am, you can buy next seasons season tickets.


In the event that any home fixtures included as part of your Season Ticket are played behind closed doors, or with a reduced capacity (that affects your purchase) during the 2020/21 season as a consequence of the COVID-19 pandemic, it will be our intention (subject to governing body permissions) that you will be provided, free of any charge, a streaming voucher to view the fixture on line.

There will be no refunds on games that are not allowed crowds.

NO REFUNDS IF YOUR TOLD YOUR NOT ALLOWED TO ATTEND GAMES DUE TO SOCIAL DISTANCING / VIRUS INCREASES / GOVT RESTRICTIONS OR GAMES SAY BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

CARDIFF CITY FC:

Whilst I'm happy to renew' support your club and all that.
Live streaming on Club TV is not live.It can be as much as 2 minutes behind.
When we are on Sky I've got mates messaging yes 1 -0.I'm thinking f**k me are they a Clairvoyant,What I'm watching is still 0-0.
So the club needs to take a look at this because it ain't live T-V

Wht happens if only 10,000 allowed in staduim? Well done Vince for asking the question.

No loyalty off me if none given back.

It says no refunds on games that are not allowed crowds.

It doesnt say no refunds if reduced capacity applies but your ticket is invalid for that game.

It says if reduced capacity a voucher will be available but doesn't state thats instead of a refund.

Its either poorly worded and confusing or it means what it says as above

We are just a fan number and the club will milk you for every last drop of your cash. Sing their name and wear the shirt cause as much as you want cause the club couldn't give toss about you or the players.

Personally I think it’s a shocking move from the club. 5 of us go together and I don’t think any of us are considering renewing. Crowds have already been said to be banned until October at the earliest and I doubt it will be as soon as that anyways. 5 of us buying STs will be over £1700 or we can buy one tv code for a tenner for each game and watch it together. You don’t need a calculator to work out which one is easiest on the wallet

Should things improve as the season progresses I’m sure half season tickets will be sold. Very poor from the club imo

Thanks Vince. It needs clarifying.

It seems clear to me but what do I know

Thought was clear enough too.
But suspect club will change to credit for following season if complaints are enough and vosififorous enough.. sure it's legal what they done because they've said thats the conditions for buying ST ... dont get refund from millennium centre unless they can re sell tickets bought (terms and conditions) when bought

Whilst I'm happy to renew' support your club and all that.
Live streaming on Club TV is not live.It can be as much as 2 minutes behind.
When we are on Sky I've got mates messaging yes 1 -0.I'm thinking f**k me are they a Clairvoyant,What I'm watching is still 0-0.
So the club needs to take a look at this because it ain't live T-V

I've had it anywhere from a couple of seconds to 30 seconds out but never 2 minutes & I'm thousands of miles away, maybe you need to look at your internet connection/speed.

Cue the "my internet is 1000000 billion megabits per second fast and I still get a 2 minute lag comments".

Whilst I'm happy to renew' support your club and all that.
Live streaming on Club TV is not live.It can be as much as 2 minutes behind.
When we are on Sky I've got mates messaging yes 1 -0.I'm thinking f**k me are they a Clairvoyant,What I'm watching is still 0-0.
So the club needs to take a look at this because it ain't live T-V

I've had it anywhere from a couple of seconds to 30 seconds out but never 2 minutes & I'm thousands of miles away, maybe you need to look at your internet connection/speed.

Cue the "my internet is 1000000 billion megabits per second fast and I still get a 2 minute lag comments".

It's always been behind sky sports ! Do they delay broadcasting minute or so after game as started ?

Whilst I'm happy to renew' support your club and all that.
Live streaming on Club TV is not live.It can be as much as 2 minutes behind.
When we are on Sky I've got mates messaging yes 1 -0.I'm thinking f**k me are they a Clairvoyant,What I'm watching is still 0-0.
So the club needs to take a look at this because it ain't live T-V

I've had it anywhere from a couple of seconds to 30 seconds out but never 2 minutes & I'm thousands of miles away, maybe you need to look at your internet connection/speed.

Cue the "my internet is 1000000 billion megabits per second fast and I still get a 2 minute lag comments".

It's always been behind sky sports ! Do they delay broadcasting minute or so after game as started ?

Might be for you guys but it's either city tv or ESPN+ for me but never both at the same time. Maybe I get lag on both & don't know it unless it's having a really bad day.

Whilst I'm happy to renew' support your club and all that.
Live streaming on Club TV is not live.It can be as much as 2 minutes behind.
When we are on Sky I've got mates messaging yes 1 -0.I'm thinking f**k me are they a Clairvoyant,What I'm watching is still 0-0.
So the club needs to take a look at this because it ain't live T-V

I've had it anywhere from a couple of seconds to 30 seconds out but never 2 minutes & I'm thousands of miles away, maybe you need to look at your internet connection/speed.

Cue the "my internet is 1000000 billion megabits per second fast and I still get a 2 minute lag comments".

It's always been behind sky sports ! Do they delay broadcasting minute or so after game as started ?

Might be for you guys but it's either city tv or ESPN+ for me but never both at the same time. Maybe I get lag on both & don't know it unless it's having a really bad day.

I'm on vpn so that may be why I am behind ... funny vpn in USA!

Whilst I'm happy to renew' support your club and all that.
Live streaming on Club TV is not live.It can be as much as 2 minutes behind.
When we are on Sky I've got mates messaging yes 1 -0.I'm thinking f**k me are they a Clairvoyant,What I'm watching is still 0-0.
So the club needs to take a look at this because it ain't live T-V

I can relate to this. Who needs enemies when you’ve got mates to ruin the game for you.

Not sure a lag on a streaming service is the point here.

Club are stating very clearly there will be no refunds for games played in empty stadium. They can impose whatever conditions they like and we chose to accept or not by buying or not.

Its an abuse of the loyal fan who would like to show support by renewing without delay and attaches a value to his or her own seat.

Club is also using the play off and potential PL return angle to shoe horn purchases.

Club statement doesn't actually say when seats will be held until.

Wonder how many people would be currently willing to book up and pay for any travel if there was a clear no refund policy.

I think it's very clear what club mean but I hope they rethink.

I am assuming we don't go up as premier league TV rights is a whole different ball game.

There are two of us in my household who have season tickets, currently even with discounts that's well over £500. It doesn't matter how affluent you are, that is still a fair chunk of change out of your disposable income for any South Wales inhabitant, but we choose it because we like the live entertainment. We all know there are many "live" streams to watch but all season ticket holder choose to go.

Mankind is learning how we go, employers are trying their best to keep the wheels of commerce and industry ticking over as we have to pay for all this. Many (good) companies are asking their staff to adhere to stricter practises than governments official guidelines, discouraging foreign holidays and mass gatherings. There is a lot of pressure on people and if there is one thing the pandemic has taught us, it has prioritised what really is important to us all and mine and my families health is top of that list unfortunately CCFC is a fair way down that list.

I think the club has misread the market. I will review all my options over the weekend and if i lose the credit i lose the credit. I never had it anyway. Common sense tells me we wont't be in the stadium until Christmas at the earliest. We'll never be New Zealand we are far too connected to the outside world. I seriously doubt we'll see 25K in the ground until Aug 2021.

Can i buy a flexi ticket with the credit ?

I am assuming we don't go up as premier league TV rights is a whole different ball game.

There are two of us in my household who have season tickets, currently even with discounts that's well over £500. It doesn't matter how affluent you are, that is still a fair chunk of change out of your disposable income for any South Wales inhabitant, but we choose it because we like the live entertainment. We all know there are many "live" streams to watch but all season ticket holder choose to go.

Mankind is learning how we go, employers are trying their best to keep the wheels of commerce and industry ticking over as we have to pay for all this. Many (good) companies are asking their staff to adhere to stricter practises than governments official guidelines, discouraging foreign holidays and mass gatherings. There is a lot of pressure on people and if there is one thing the pandemic has taught us, it has prioritised what really is important to us all and mine and my families health is top of that list unfortunately CCFC is a fair way down that list.

I think the club has misread the market. I will review all my options over the weekend and if i lose the credit i lose the credit. I never had it anyway. Common sense tells me we wont't be in the stadium until Christmas at the earliest. We'll never be New Zealand we are far too connected to the outside world. I seriously doubt we'll see 25K in the ground until Aug 2021.

Can i buy a flexi ticket with the credit ?

Completely agree with you

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=216313

VINCE ALM:

Current seats, moving seats for next season, can I sit in my seat?

Received quite a few queries in regards to keeping seats and moving seats as above.

These are questions I asked the club last week on behalf of the supporters and supporters club when England announced fans maybe able to return to stadiums with a 30-50% capacity in October / Nov . Unfortunately the football club were not in a position or able to put any information out regards these key questions as they have to date received no guidance from Welsh Government and local authorities on capacity and what social distance measures need to be put in place.

I understand talks will start with the local authority in the coming weeks so they have a plan with the club in anticipation of the Welsh government allowing spectators to return to watching sport.


There will be no refunds.

I am sure the majority of you understand why you may not be able to sit in your seats during restrictions and maybe asked to move temporarily to comply with social distancing rules if we are allowed back into the stadium anytime soon

Thanks Vince. It needs clarifying.

It seems clear to me but what do I know

Thought was clear enough too.
But suspect club will change to credit for following season if complaints are enough and vosififorous enough.. sure it's legal what they done because they've said thats the conditions for buying ST ... dont get refund from millennium centre unless they can re sell tickets bought (terms and conditions) when bought

The T&C's have to be fair.

City are selling a service which is live entertainment inside the stadium. If you choose not to take up the service (i.e. the ST holder chooses not to attend the event) then that is not the fault of the service provider. So your analogy with the Millennium Centre having to sell a ticket on before providing a refund is not really a relevant one.

A better one is a cancelled holiday or flight ticket where you get either a refund or voucher. In the case of ST holders there is a fair remedy to provide an alternative through live streaming on City TV if City remain in the Championship but the problem arises if we were promoted to the PL.

Basically they are saying tough luck we can't provide the 'service' and we have no remedy like a streaming voucher or refund. This is where City might be breaking the law because their T&C's might fall foul of EU Unfair Consumer Contract Terms Directive. Despite BREXIT this directive still applies as all EU law has been incorporated into British Law and ST holders would have a right to challenge the club's failure to provide the service or an alternative in the Courts.

really cant believe the moans at all tbh..

but all this challenging in courts and talk of law...WTF...

really cant believe the moans at all tbh..

but all this challenging in courts and talk of law...WTF...

The law is there to protect the consumer. You can't have a situation where a Vendor can 'sell' something that doesn't exist and have no way of challenging that. You might have no worries about throwing £300 away but many others will.

All the club has to do is say that if we are promoted to the PL and fans can't attend the stadium a credit would be given to the ST holder towards the cost of the 21/22 ST ticket rather than just saying there will be no refund.

I purchased my 3 ST first thing yesterday because despite ALL these valid queries none of them will matter is the club isn't there because it's gone out of business. It's now been months since our club has received any income from ticket sales and it must be in need of money into the coffers.

There are so many things up in the air at the moment so it's difficult if not impossible for the club to cover all bases now. Things like when will the season start and the most important for me is will the stadium require a new safety certificate to hold matches with fans present? surely it will so right now maybe the club needs to establish the number of fans likely to attend. It did say it reserved the right to suspend ST sales without notice so maybe they already have a plan to make the CCS Covid safe. It would surprise me if they haven't and with the need for social distancing in my opinion it will involve some fans having to move seats. Would that be such a problem

If the stadium needs a new safety certificate will there be a need for "Trial" events and to that end there was a debate on Talkshite the other week where September maybe used for the early rounds of the Carabao Cup using these matches to trial reduced capacity games. If everything went OK then the EFL season could restart on the first Saturday of October which would provide more midweek dates for matches to allow the season to complete in May. The EFL are hoping capacity would be reduced to something like 30-50% of normal depending of course on how stadiums can be adapted.

I think we should give the club a break and let them get on with establishing what is possible within our stadium to get a safety certificate and wait until the EFL are in a position to present a plan to clubs on how the season will take place.

I purchased my 3 ST first thing yesterday because despite ALL these valid queries none of them will matter is the club isn't there because it's gone out of business. It's now been months since our club has received any income from ticket sales and it must be in need of money into the coffers.

There are so many things up in the air at the moment so it's difficult if not impossible for the club to cover all bases now. Things like when will the season start and the most important for me is will the stadium require a new safety certificate to hold matches with fans present? surely it will so right now maybe the club needs to establish the number of fans likely to attend. It did say it reserved the right to suspend ST sales without notice so maybe they already have a plan to make the CCS Covid safe. It would surprise me if they haven't and with the need for social distancing in my opinion it will involve some fans having to move seats. Would that be such a problem

If the stadium needs a new safety certificate will there be a need for "Trial" events and to that end there was a debate on Talkshite the other week where September maybe used for the early rounds of the Carabao Cup using these matches to trial reduced capacity games. If everything went OK then the EFL season could restart on the first Saturday of October which would provide more midweek dates for matches to allow the season to complete in May. The EFL are hoping capacity would be reduced to something like 30-50% of normal depending of course on how stadiums can be adapted.

I think we should give the club a break and let them get on with establishing what is possible within our stadium to get a safety certificate and wait until the EFL are in a position to present a plan to clubs on how the season will take place.

I agree fully with the sentiment and if the club said we need £500 contributions to save the club from going bankrupt then I would make a donation.

However, we are talking about ST's and not everyone is in a position to throw £300+ away on a vague promise. There is an economic Tsunami on it's way and thousands of ST holders are going to lose their jobs. They will then have to chose between paying the mortgage or buy a ST so that the players (who are mainly millionaires) still get paid even though they wouldn't take pay cuts during the height of the pandemic.

The club could help if they tackled the anomaly where your season ticket could prove a white elephant if we were promoted to the PL with a credit for any missed games. As for seat numbers etc. fans would have to be understanding and accept that due to social distancing they can't be guaranteed their usual ones.

really cant believe the moans at all tbh..

but all this challenging in courts and talk of law...WTF...

The law is there to protect the consumer. You can't have a situation where a Vendor can 'sell' something that doesn't exist and have no way of challenging that. You might have no worries about throwing £300 away but many others will.

All the club has to do is say that if we are promoted to the PL and fans can't attend the stadium a credit would be given to the ST holder towards the cost of the 21/22 ST ticket rather than just saying there will be no refund.

no i havent got 300 quid THROW AWAY...thats not what i did yesterday... i suggest if anyone remotely thinks supporting our club might be THROWING money away...shouldnt go .shouldnt buy...and really does not support our club { im not talking about those that cant afford, or have health concerns, more the phrase and attitude }... the T&C s are there buy or dont buy.... FFS do you want a football club or not..? take a good look at Wigan , Bury or the host of other clubs that have hit bad times.... courts of law my arse .. whats wrong with people...
as for the STs, once again they are reasonably priced.. probably priced accordingly with the current crisis in mind..

Thanks Vince. It needs clarifying.

It seems clear to me but what do I know

Thought was clear enough too.
But suspect club will change to credit for following season if complaints are enough and vosififorous enough.. sure it's legal what they done because they've said thats the conditions for buying ST ... dont get refund from millennium centre unless they can re sell tickets bought (terms and conditions) when bought

The T&C's have to be fair.

City are selling a service which is live entertainment inside the stadium. If you choose not to take up the service (i.e. the ST holder chooses not to attend the event) then that is not the fault of the service provider. So your analogy with the Millennium Centre having to sell a ticket on before providing a refund is not really a relevant one.

A better one is a cancelled holiday or flight ticket where you get either a refund or voucher. In the case of ST holders there is a fair remedy to provide an alternative through live streaming on City TV if City remain in the Championship but the problem arises if we were promoted to the PL.

Basically they are saying tough luck we can't provide the 'service' and we have no remedy like a streaming voucher or refund. This is where City might be breaking the law because their T&C's might fall foul of EU Unfair Consumer Contract Terms Directive. Despite BREXIT this directive still applies as all EU law has been incorporated into British Law and ST holders would have a right to challenge the club's failure to provide the service or an alternative in the Courts.

The world is full of T&C that appear wrong but sure club as looked at this and feel they can do it, and going on personal experiences I'm sure you've had T&C that have been wrong in your opinion same as I have..... for one minute dont think it's right but like all consumers I have the right to accept or decline the T&C of product I am buying, I have accepted the T&C knowing what it means.... I'm not sure you can challenge something you have not bought.

really cant believe the moans at all tbh..

but all this challenging in courts and talk of law...WTF...

The law is there to protect the consumer. You can't have a situation where a Vendor can 'sell' something that doesn't exist and have no way of challenging that. You might have no worries about throwing £300 away but many others will.

All the club has to do is say that if we are promoted to the PL and fans can't attend the stadium a credit would be given to the ST holder towards the cost of the 21/22 ST ticket rather than just saying there will be no refund.

no i havent got 300 quid THROW AWAY...thats not what i did yesterday... i suggest if anyone remotely thinks supporting our club might be THROWING money away...shouldnt go .shouldnt buy...and really does not support our club { im not talking about those that cant afford, or have health concerns, more the phrase and attitude }... the T&C s are there buy or dont buy.... FFS do you want a football club or not..? take a good look at Wigan , Bury or the host of other clubs that have hit bad times.... courts of law my arse .. whats wrong with people...
as for the STs, once again they are reasonably priced.. probably priced accordingly with the current crisis in mind..

It remains to be seen if you have thrown your money away. As stated above if the club are financially strapped and are close to bankruptcy and want donations then tell us that, I would donate.

There are thousands of fans losing their jobs all over the UK and they have to make difficult choices which will often mean putting their families first. If these people are asked to buy ST's then it should be on fair and equitable terms and conditions where they will get credits for any games in the PL which they are not allowed to attend.

If you have purchased a ST then well done. But taking a moral high ground standing and pointing fingers is not really the way to behave towards fans who may have a very worrying time at the moment and want to make value for money purchases rather than giving money on a vague promise.

really cant believe the moans at all tbh..

but all this challenging in courts and talk of law...WTF...

The law is there to protect the consumer. You can't have a situation where a Vendor can 'sell' something that doesn't exist and have no way of challenging that. You might have no worries about throwing £300 away but many others will.

All the club has to do is say that if we are promoted to the PL and fans can't attend the stadium a credit would be given to the ST holder towards the cost of the 21/22 ST ticket rather than just saying there will be no refund.

no i havent got 300 quid THROW AWAY...thats not what i did yesterday... i suggest if anyone remotely thinks supporting our club might be THROWING money away...shouldnt go .shouldnt buy...and really does not support our club { im not talking about those that cant afford, or have health concerns, more the phrase and attitude }... the T&C s are there buy or dont buy.... FFS do you want a football club or not..? take a good look at Wigan , Bury or the host of other clubs that have hit bad times.... courts of law my arse .. whats wrong with people...
as for the STs, once again they are reasonably priced.. probably priced accordingly with the current crisis in mind..

It remains to be seen if you have thrown your money away. As stated above if the club are financially strapped and are close to bankruptcy and want donations then tell us that, I would donate.

There are thousands of fans losing their jobs all over the UK and they have to make difficult choices which will often mean putting their families first. If these people are asked to buy ST's then it should be on fair and equitable terms and conditions where they will get credits for any games in the PL which they are not allowed to attend.

If you have purchased a ST then well done. But taking a moral high ground standing and pointing fingers is not really the way to behave towards fans who may have a very worrying time at the moment and want to make value for money purchases rather than giving money on a vague promise.

you dont need to be told that our chairman has kept us afloat having financially rescuing us...
or that the club have lost a big chunk of match day revenue due to the virus.
that most clubs are either going to or are already struggling
or that the larger part of these loses and future loses will be stumped up by Mr Tan...
well ill be honest..if i owned a malaysian club that i hadnt even heard of 10 years ago.. been as fair to them as VT has been here and then read these pathetic comments i be wondering why i should bother...
if you see it support the club....if you dont feel that way just dont.. talking about fans rights in courts... JUST NO.