Vince Alm: “ The Police This Sunday “

VINNCE ALM:

South Wales Police are looking to trial AFR again this Sunday at the South Wales Derby match.

This is a breach of thousands of people right to privacy, it is also the thin end of the wedge of an advanced surveillance state where your bio metric data will be checked and run through systems. This data can be stored against your knowledge and used in the future against you although the police WILL deny this there is evidence of this already occurring.

Football fans are yet again the guinea pigs for this new technology which has a shocking success rate.

If this technology becomes widespread it will be the beginning of the end of society as we know.

"Smarter recognition safer community" it is a lie!

"Smarter and more policing safer community" is more like the slogan that is required.

The serious criminality the police say they want to prevent by using AFR is a diversion. The serious criminals are already one step ahead of this technology, this will be used for minor offences as time goes like littering, using a mobile phone when driving.

Education and boots on the ground worked for 100s of years, but with all the technology already at their fingertips crime is increasing as both education and boots on the ground decreases from our society.



DO NOT BE FOOLED

If there is enough interest I don't mind organising a protest on Sunday before the game

VINCE ALM

This as been going on for ages on sloper rd by away supporters rd entrance! Can tell by recent case police not interested in peoples
rights more to do with lazy policing? 2 can sit in room watch pictures coming from a surveillance van with one man operation... with van load coppers sitting in van doing SFA waiting to pick up wrong person if the success rate of system is anything to go by..

Everyone wear a mask , balaclava or scarf in protest

Yet nothing is said about the CCTV images being obtained within the stadium by the match day policing team or the tactical officers stood at the front of the stands with a camcorder filming the supporters..... just because they’re putting the Facial Recognition van outside the stadium (and it’s been there on quite a few occasions trying to hide in the car park) then it’s an issue..... nothing seems to be said when it’s used in other areas such as the Elvis Festival down Porthcawl for instance....

Yet nothing is said about the CCTV images being obtained within the stadium by the match day policing team or the tactical officers stood at the front of the stands with a camcorder filming the supporters..... just because they’re putting the Facial Recognition van outside the stadium (and it’s been there on quite a few occasions trying to hide in the car park) then it’s an issue..... nothing seems to be said when it’s used in other areas such as the Elvis Festival down Porthcawl for instance....

Surely everyone looks like Elvis

Yet nothing is said about the CCTV images being obtained within the stadium by the match day policing team or the tactical officers stood at the front of the stands with a camcorder filming the supporters..... just because they’re putting the Facial Recognition van outside the stadium (and it’s been there on quite a few occasions trying to hide in the car park) then it’s an issue..... nothing seems to be said when it’s used in other areas such as the Elvis Festival down Porthcawl for instance....

Surely everyone looks like Elvis

You’d think so... they’ve picked a few people up from the SWP wanted list in the few years they’ve been using it down there

If you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to worry about!

If having the van there spots and prevents a potential terror attack then you would all be praising it

If having the van there stops the dickheads causing trouble getting to the ground resulting in lower policing costs that brings ticket prices down I'm all for it. It will also go a long way to stopping restricted games .

It has more pros than cons in my opinion for what I can see

If you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to worry about!

If having the van there spots and prevents a potential terror attack then you would all be praising it

If having the van there stops the dickheads causing trouble getting to the ground resulting in lower policing costs that brings ticket prices down I'm all for it. It will also go a long way to stopping restricted games .

It has more pros than cons in my opinion for what I can see

So let's allow camera's to monitor us in our living rooms, bedroom, place[s] of work and rest. Sorry, but the OP is so right. Our police stopped being a re-assuring presence years ago.

If you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to worry about!

If having the van there spots and prevents a potential terror attack then you would all be praising it

If having the van there stops the dickheads causing trouble getting to the ground resulting in lower policing costs that brings ticket prices down I'm all for it. It will also go a long way to stopping restricted games .

It has more pros than cons in my opinion for what I can see

So let's allow camera's to monitor us in our living rooms, bedroom, place[s] of work and rest. Sorry, but the OP is so right. Our police stopped being a re-assuring presence years ago.

You're home is Private that is different. When you are in a public place then most cameras are there for public protection. If something happens to you like being assaulted at a pub the first thing you would think of is do they have CCTV and can it help you.
At the end of the day the police need help to protect us from all kinds of threats these days and if they need this tool they should be allowed it.

If you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to worry about!

If having the van there spots and prevents a potential terror attack then you would all be praising it

If having the van there stops the dickheads causing trouble getting to the ground resulting in lower policing costs that brings ticket prices down I'm all for it. It will also go a long way to stopping restricted games .

It has more pros than cons in my opinion for what I can see

Trouble with your post is precisely why they use it to cut down on amount of officers used on the streets Especially at football games! Yes it cuts police costs but is of no benefit to ticket prices and it certainly wont stop restrictions at games because it would need far more cops to pick up so called trouble makers than to police game in normal way...... pros useful for weeding out activists at demos certainly for security work at conferences, but no pros at football because fans are neither terrorists or activists? And if coursectroublevyou get banned, So why single out football why not pop concert rugby internationals ect ect . The recent case they were on queen st taking photo of Joe public for their data base nothing to do with security ect ect, will get like China where they take pictures of absolutely everyone in a totalitarian state..

If you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to worry about!

If having the van there spots and prevents a potential terror attack then you would all be praising it

If having the van there stops the dickheads causing trouble getting to the ground resulting in lower policing costs that brings ticket prices down I'm all for it. It will also go a long way to stopping restricted games .

It has more pros than cons in my opinion for what I can see

So let's allow camera's to monitor us in our living rooms, bedroom, place[s] of work and rest. Sorry, but the OP is so right. Our police stopped being a re-assuring presence years ago.

You're home is Private that is different. When you are in a public place then most cameras are there for public protection. If something happens to you like being assaulted at a pub the first thing you would think of is do they have CCTV and can it help you.
At the end of the day the police need help to protect us from all kinds of threats these days and if they need this tool they should be allowed it.

Its its nothing to do with CCTV this is
personal data .. you cannot take picture of me without my consent it's an invasion of my privacy but they can for no reason what for? Don't forget recent case of private company using this technology without anyones permission with met police co operation I may add...

If you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to worry about!

If having the van there spots and prevents a potential terror attack then you would all be praising it

If having the van there stops the dickheads causing trouble getting to the ground resulting in lower policing costs that brings ticket prices down I'm all for it. It will also go a long way to stopping restricted games .

It has more pros than cons in my opinion for what I can see

So let's allow camera's to monitor us in our living rooms, bedroom, place[s] of work and rest. Sorry, but the OP is so right. Our police stopped being a re-assuring presence years ago.

You're home is Private that is different. When you are in a public place then most cameras are there for public protection. If something happens to you like being assaulted at a pub the first thing you would think of is do they have CCTV and can it help you.
At the end of the day the police need help to protect us from all kinds of threats these days and if they need this tool they should be allowed it.

Its its nothing to do with CCTV this is
personal data .. you cannot take picture of me without my consent it's an invasion of my privacy but they can for no reason what for? Don't forget recent case of private company using this technology without anyones permission with met police co operation I may add...

You can video and take pictures of anybody or anything on public land it is not illegal, you can take it up as a civil matter not a legal one. The ground has notices that video surveillance will be used in and around the ground at all times.

I dont see how it is a issue to be honest. We are watched 24 hours a day everywhere we go. Most people even have listening devices like Amazons Alexa in there house which is just as bad as facial recognition if not worse. Facial recognition will happen it's pointless fighting it as not enough people care enough
Data is collected from you pretty much everything you do now from entering a football ground to posting on here.

So wha,Ive got nothing to hide. Nothing against more security to weed out the racists, idiots and terrorists.
Freedom comes at a price and our tolerances are our weakness. Something like that , I've had a few drinks now.

SWP’s Facial Rec went under a judicial review in Sept 2019, it’s here to stay

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-49565287

Yet nothing is said about the CCTV images being obtained within the stadium by the match day policing team or the tactical officers stood at the front of the stands with a camcorder filming the supporters..... just because they’re putting the Facial Recognition van outside the stadium (and it’s been there on quite a few occasions trying to hide in the car park) then it’s an issue..... nothing seems to be said when it’s used in other areas such as the Elvis Festival down Porthcawl for instance....

Surely everyone looks like Elvis

Lol

So wha,Ive got nothing to hide. Nothing against more security to weed out the racists, idiots and terrorists.
Freedom comes at a price and our tolerances are our weakness. Something like that , I've had a few drinks now.

God help us.

So wha,Ive got nothing to hide. Nothing against more security to weed out the racists, idiots and terrorists.
Freedom comes at a price and our tolerances are our weakness. Something like that , I've had a few drinks now.

ive been free all my life without facial recognition cameras thanks.

i cant f*cking wait

Surely in the present climate a large group of people is under some threat from a terrorist attack, who would have thought the sea front in the south of france or a teenage pop concert in Manchester would be targets. If the Pokice didn't perceive a threat why have armed officers near the stadium for a number of months now. I dont mind my picture being taken (which anyone can do in a public place) if it assists in keeping 20,000 people in a confined space safe.

Given the current situation in the middle east, I wonder if those currently against use of this technology would change their mind if it resulted in a few arrests ahead of our game against the USA?

For people who say "if you got nothing to hide then whats to worry about" need to really understand human nature. On principal I do agree if you have nothing to hide then whats to worry about however, I do not trust humans to use the technology for good all the time.

If you take a look at the attached article at what is being trialled in china. A reward based system using facial reconognigtion.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50658538

A friend I work with travels to China on a regular bases and has said that in certain Cities/Towns the reward based system goes as far as, what you view online, watch on TV etc.. The more you follow the states way of thinkng the more reward points you get. When the time comes to needed a new job or access public services your points are viewed to see what your entitled to.

Now I know China is slightly different than the UK but the more this type of technology gets implemented into our lives the harder it will be to get rid of and easier for future police/governments to implement controls like in China.

I'm not sure the comparison is fair and is fear mongering not based on fact. A bit like the OP saying the system will be used for littering offences etc. I agree it should be monitored but the whole thing is a small price to pay for the extra security we need. Bearing in mind there has been strong links to terrorism in this City.

I agree with OP.

I don't think there is any chance AFR will stop a lone terrorist intent on doing his worse and the serious criminal set are miles ahead.

The technology use will only serve to facilitate more big brother surveillance. Whilst agreeing with the if you have nothing to hide to argument the ways in which technology invades our privacy and is changing our habits is frightening. We are all used to searching on line and then our social media throws up related adverts but the listening devices in our houses that do the same are for me disturbing. And show how much of our lives can be monitored. And monitored then by who? And with what intentions?

And all this whilst the issue of law and order remains a big one. You simply don't see police officers on the beat anymore and society is worse for it.

I would much prefer our police to have a more traditional visual presence rather than the surveillance culture that it has become.

Everyone wear a mask , balaclava or scarf in protest

They could stop you and ask you to remove it?

Yet nothing is said about the CCTV images being obtained within the stadium by the match day policing team or the tactical officers stood at the front of the stands with a camcorder filming the supporters..... just because they’re putting the Facial Recognition van outside the stadium (and it’s been there on quite a few occasions trying to hide in the car park) then it’s an issue..... nothing seems to be said when it’s used in other areas such as the Elvis Festival down Porthcawl for instance....

Surely everyone looks like Elvis

You’d think so... they’ve picked a few people up from the SWP wanted list in the few years they’ve been using it down there

I suppose that's really what it is for in this case, and to spot fams that are banned, they'll probably get quite a few of those, and stop some going as using this as a deterrent?

Yet nothing is said about the CCTV images being obtained within the stadium by the match day policing team or the tactical officers stood at the front of the stands with a camcorder filming the supporters..... just because they’re putting the Facial Recognition van outside the stadium (and it’s been there on quite a few occasions trying to hide in the car park) then it’s an issue..... nothing seems to be said when it’s used in other areas such as the Elvis Festival down Porthcawl for instance....

Surely everyone looks like Elvis

You’d think so... they’ve picked a few people up from the SWP wanted list in the few years they’ve been using it down there

I suppose that's really what it is for in this case, and to spot fams that are banned, they'll probably get quite a few of those, and stop some going as using this as a deterrent?

It will also act as a deterrent to potential trouble at the game, such as the Swansea fans throwing seats into the family stand!

I'm not sure the comparison is fair and is fear mongering not based on fact. A bit like the OP saying the system will be used for littering offences etc. I agree it should be monitored but the whole thing is a small price to pay for the extra security we need. Bearing in mind there has been strong links to terrorism in this City.

its not fear mongering at all.. CCTV is used more and more by environment officers to get numbers and fines up for fly tipping. what constitutes fly tipping these days though is more often than not leaving rubbish in the wrong place in recycling areas.. not unlike speed cameras that are placed where a road opens up a little .put a camera in an equation and the end result isn't about improvement of behaviour it becomes abouts numbers and pound signs.

So wha,Ive got nothing to hide. Nothing against more security to weed out the racists, idiots and terrorists.
Freedom comes at a price and our tolerances are our weakness. Something like that , I've had a few drinks now.

ive been free all my life without facial recognition cameras thanks.

Exactly. The state - and banks and multinationals - would love us to become a cashless society, have micro chips in our hands [as in Sweden], and be on camera 24/7 while outside our own homes, and then monitor what we are viewing while we are inside.

The argument that this is being done to 'protect us' is disingenuous at the very least. Anyway I'd rather take my chances of being blown up by a drug-raddled nutter, as opposed to being watched by a fat plod/private security employee 24/7..

For people who say "if you got nothing to hide then whats to worry about" need to really understand human nature. On principal I do agree if you have nothing to hide then whats to worry about however, I do not trust humans to use the technology for good all the time.

If you take a look at the attached article at what is being trialled in china. A reward based system using facial reconognigtion.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50658538

A friend I work with travels to China on a regular bases and has said that in certain Cities/Towns the reward based system goes as far as, what you view online, watch on TV etc.. The more you follow the states way of thinkng the more reward points you get. When the time comes to needed a new job or access public services your points are viewed to see what your entitled to.

Now I know China is slightly different than the UK but the more this type of technology gets implemented into our lives the harder it will be to get rid of and easier for future police/governments to implement controls like in China.

The Government literally playing God. A logical conclusion of Marxism.

Yet nothing is said about the CCTV images being obtained within the stadium by the match day policing team or the tactical officers stood at the front of the stands with a camcorder filming the supporters..... just because they’re putting the Facial Recognition van outside the stadium (and it’s been there on quite a few occasions trying to hide in the car park) then it’s an issue..... nothing seems to be said when it’s used in other areas such as the Elvis Festival down Porthcawl for instance....

Surely everyone looks like Elvis

You’d think so... they’ve picked a few people up from the SWP wanted list in the few years they’ve been using it down there

I suppose that's really what it is for in this case, and to spot fams that are banned, they'll probably get quite a few of those, and stop some going as using this as a deterrent?

It will also act as a deterrent to potential trouble at the game, such as the Swansea fans throwing seats into the family stand!

mate there are more than enough CCTV cameras aimed at the away end to catch anyone stupid enough to do such a thing as it is. and no amount can guarantee it not happening. . but what Vince is talking about here is something different