‘ Lee Tomlin issues ‘

An interesting read:







Cardiff City's Lee Tomlin opens up on his mental health torment

By Adrian Kajumba For The Daily Mail


Saturday 6th Jul 2019

The picture of his physical condition that Lee Tomlin posted on social media says it all.

The weight has fallen off and his hard work to get himself in shape for the new campaign has been worth it.

'I'm the fittest I've ever been,' he beams proudly, reflecting on a gruelling fitness regime that has seen him drop 13kg – just over two stone - in a matter of months.

Lee Tomlin has revealed his battle with mental illness which drove him to the brink of suicide

Tomlin posted to his social media to show that he is in the best physical condition of his life



However, there has also been a vast improvement to his mental state thanks to help at Cardiff

What is impossible to see in a picture is that the huge, suffocating weight on his mind that drove Tomlin to the brink of suicide has gone, too.





LEE TOMLIN:

'I've obviously had problems off the pitch,' he said in an understated way that, unlike his photo, didn't do anything like tell the full story. 'That's all sorted. I'm in the right frame of mind now.'

Throughout his career Tomlin's technical ability has never been in doubt. 'The issue has always been my fitness,' said the 30-year-old Cardiff midfielder.

Though he never imagined that mental health problems would come his way.

'I never took anything too seriously,' he says. 'I'd laugh things off if they were said, things like that. That was just me.'

But mental health problems don't discriminate, as he now knows. 'It just shows how strong and powerful the mind can be,' he says.

Tomlin's talents lifted him to the Premier League when he joined Bournemouth from Middlesbrough for £3.5million in 2015 but made just six appearances before leaving for Bristol City.

The Cardiff man believes his problems show how mental health problems don't discriminate



His performances earned a move to Cardiff in 2017 but by the start of last season found himself training with the youth team. It was then his problems quickly snowballed.

'The transfer window had shut, the loan window had shut, I couldn't go anywhere,' he explained. 'I found it difficult to find purpose.

'Everything that had happened in previous years, I had probably not dealt with properly and it just exploded.

'As you get older you mature and think more and I started focusing on worst case scenarios. For example after football, what do you do then? And life in general, overthinking everything took its toll on me.

'You always have bad days in football but to think the sort of things I was thinking at the time, it was obviously a lot deeper than that than your average bad day.

'I was sitting in bed at 2am, 3am with the worst thoughts … about hanging myself, slitting my wrists, sitting there crying. I'd have the tablets in my hand.'



On one occasion Tomlin recalls trying to end his life while driving home on the M69. 'I just pulled my car off the road into a ditch,' he says. 'Wrote it off. I kept it quiet, didn't say a word. Just went and got a new car.

'Do I remember much before it happened? Nope. Sometimes I don't even know how I got home from Cardiff to Leicester. Afterwards I remember thinking, 'What have I done there?'

'I thought I was going to get thrown in a mental institution so I just said to anyone who asked that I took the corner too fast. I knew that if I was honest I'm not going to be able to play football again, because, with the thoughts in my head I wasn't right.'

Confirmation came a few days later.

'I was playing in a reserve game against Coventry, my head was all over the place and I got sent off after 10 minutes,' he said.

'The ref gave a bad decision and I called him every name under the sun and carried on until I got sent off for dissent.

'The manager [Jarred Harvey] said, 'You weren't there. I could see in your eyes. Even before the game you weren't there. You were weird.'

'I said to him, 'I don't know what's happening, I don't really care.' Obviously I had a lot more things to think about.

'Once I got home I thought, 'You know what, this is only going to get worse and worse' and the same night he messaged [then academy coach] Craig Bellamy and told him because they were close.

'That night Bellamy rang me saying, 'Jarred is worried about you. There is something wrong in your head. I want you to make sure you're alright. You need to go and see someone as soon as possible.'

Tomlin revealed that an intervention from youth coach Craig Bellamy proved a pivotal moment



The former Wales international was alerted after Tomlin was sent off in a reserve match
That was the vital intervention Tomlin needed.

'Somebody like that saying it, along with my agents Clive Platt and Will Salthouse, they are the ones that made me think 'yeah, I really do,' he says.

'Neil Warnock and Michelle, the secretary at Cardiff, Clive, Will, The PFA and Sporting Chance too, what they have done for me and how much they have helped has been unbelievable, to get me in touch with people and start trying to sort myself out instead of just hiding and thinking the worst.

'I can't thank them all enough. Warnock knows literally everything that has gone on and got the club to let me go out on loan [to Peterborough] so I could basically be back home and try to get my head back into football.

'I was seeing a therapist in Loughborough who I had about 16 sessions with and it was there I got things off my chest and allowed me to speak about things that way.

'I'm really happy that I've done it sooner rather than later because you never know what could have happened.'


Attitudes in football have changed significantly since Tomlin started playing senior football aged 16 at Rushden and Diamonds.

Mental health is no longer a taboo subject highlighted by the increasing number of players who have bravely spoken out. His advice to any players who might be struggling?

'If you're having quite a few down days go and speak to a professional straight away. It doesn't have to be a deep conversation,' Tomlin says.


'Someone that won't judge you but will just be honest, then you don't feel ashamed because you don't know that person.

'If I had spoken to people like that years ago it wouldn't have got to the stage it did.'

It is surely no coincidence that, with his mind now free, Tomlin has been able to successfully address the fitness issues he has battled throughout his career, even if they have never stopped him being selected, earning moves or running the same distances as his significantly lighter team-mates.

Since the end of last season, Tomlin has continued the work he started with former Peterborough fitness coach Lee Taylor, eating the right foods, portions, drinking 'a hell of a lot more water' and sticking religiously to his training regime.

Tomlin has put himself through twice daily training sessions – treadmill running, weights, sit-ups and press ups in the morning and another run before bed – with a round of golf – 'that's what I love to do to try and keep me calm and relaxed' – in between, every Monday to Friday with only the weekend's off.

Even when he took his two boys Micah and Oscar to Dubai, Tomlin didn't stray from his plan. The slimline Tomlin back in pre-season training with Cardiff is a far cry from the player who returned from his summer break to Middlesbrough in 2015.

Tomlin admits he cannot wait to kick on after sticking to his strict pre-season training regime



He said: 'We were in Marbella for pre-season playing Leyton Orient and there was a side-on picture of me that was horrendous.

'It looked Photoshopped. Everyone was like, 'Jesus Christ'. I've got low ribs so they will always stick out and it will always look like I'm carrying a bit. 'My bodyweight can also go up and down. I'm that sort of build.

'I had to play the full game because [manager] Aitor Karanka said, 'What have you done, look at the state of you' but I could only play half a game and more or less needed an oxygen tank.'

Such his ability that didn't prevent him progressing. A few weeks later Tomlin joined Bournemouth ahead of their first ever Premier League campaign.

'Eddie Howe had me in from 8am to 5pm, running my t*** off,' he says. 'I got really fit then but when I compare it to now, it was nowhere near how good I am.'

Now there are no obstacles for Tomlin, mental or physical, which is why he can't wait for the new campaign.

'I want to see the reaction or excuse people can give to me now,' he says. 'I want to kick on. I know if I'm this fit I can play for anyone in the Championship. Hopefully I can play, get Cardiff back to the Premier League and stay there.'

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Good read. Poor fella and explains a lot.

Sounds like his head is right now though and well done to everyone at the club for supporting him. Plenty would've turned a blind eye! Let's hope he pays them back...

Fantastic read and insight as to what went on. Sounds like Warnock and the club moved heaven and earth to help him and now it looks like his head is right, if that’s the case we’ve got one hell of a player on our hands because a fit Lee Tomlin with his head right is probably one of the most gifted midfielders in the Championship.

Lee Tomlin’s situation is a timely reminder that we have no idea what sort of torment struggling players are experiencing and we should start treating them like human beings. Money and fame does not insulate you from pain and mental health issues. If anything, it makes it worse

Reading this has certainly changed my mind on wether he shoukd be given another chance.
By opening up on the subject he probably realised what a great talent he is wasting.
Perhaps the next fortnight in the USA will be a defining moment in wether he stays at the City.
One thing for sure if he has addressed his issues we have a a player that can be unstoppable.

Correct Annis, played only a small part but shows also that Bellamy also has a good side which many folk like to forget.

After reading that its a clean slate for him as far as I'm concerned.This boy has a lot to prove and I;ve got a feeling someone or some side will suffer at his hands.Well done also to the people that stood by him.

Interesting read.
Go on son, show us what you’re made of. We’re all right behind you.

Interesting read.
Go on son, show us what you’re made of. We’re all right behind you.

Spot on, he’s a great talent and I’m pretty sure he’s going to show us the real Lee Tomlin

I said a while ago, didn't I ,that we'd only find out the truth about his problems when he wrote an expose in one of the newspapers .
He's the latest in a long series of faulted players including some really great players who go along like this, and I'm afraid the newspaper "confessional" is usually the swan song rather than a renaissance. Of course I share the hopeful sentiments expressed here, and if he can correct the problem no one will be more delighted than me, but I think we'd be unwise to make any assumptions that anything will change.
It's a terrible thing that some very very talented players, which I think Lee Tomlin is, cannot cope with the pressures of success

Great the club have done the right thing and supported LT with his issues. Hopefully we will all see the quality we All know he possesses.
Should be like a new signing in a position were we a light at the moment. Good luck Lee

I said a while ago, didn't I ,that we'd only find out the truth about his problems when he wrote an expose in one of the newspapers .
He's the latest in a long series of faulted players including some really great players who go along like this, and I'm afraid the newspaper "confessional" is usually the swan song rather than a renaissance. Of course I share the hopeful sentiments expressed here, and if he can correct the problem no one will be more delighted than me, but I think we'd be unwise to make any assumptions that anything will change.
It's a terrible thing that some very very talented players, which I think Lee Tomlin is, cannot cope with the pressures of success

We can all make assumptions,which I did about this lad.But,like everyone else he deserves his chance and I don't think it was the pressure of being famous that done him,rather,personal issues closer to home.

I said a while ago, didn't I ,that we'd only find out the truth about his problems when he wrote an expose in one of the newspapers .
He's the latest in a long series of faulted players including some really great players who go along like this, and I'm afraid the newspaper "confessional" is usually the swan song rather than a renaissance. Of course I share the hopeful sentiments expressed here, and if he can correct the problem no one will be more delighted than me, but I think we'd be unwise to make any assumptions that anything will change.
It's a terrible thing that some very very talented players, which I think Lee Tomlin is, cannot cope with the pressures of success

Thank you, Job's comforter!

Let's just see what happens, shall we? It's over to Tomlin now and only time will tell; or do you have experience in psychology, precognition and a personal insight to the guys state of mind and character on top of all your other claimed (but hard to substantiate) traits?

Until now, people have judged Tomlin on his footballing prowess rather than his personal attributes and he has failed to be all that might have been expected. This 'article' may give him some leeway (I hope it does) but he will still be judged on what he does in a Cardiff City shirt and for the money he is on, that is how it should be

As an aside, this likely explains Tomlin's comments that the club (and manager in particular) have been nothing but supportive of him in his time at the club

Lee Tomlin’s situation is a timely reminder that we have no idea what sort of torment struggling players are experiencing and we should start treating them like human beings. Money and fame does not insulate you from pain and mental health issues. If anything, it makes it worse

Maybe he wasn’t the toxic person in the squad after all annis never know what someone is really going through

I said a while ago, didn't I ,that we'd only find out the truth about his problems when he wrote an expose in one of the newspapers .
He's the latest in a long series of faulted players including some really great players who go along like this, and I'm afraid the newspaper "confessional" is usually the swan song rather than a renaissance. Of course I share the hopeful sentiments expressed here, and if he can correct the problem no one will be more delighted than me, but I think we'd be unwise to make any assumptions that anything will change.
It's a terrible thing that some very very talented players, which I think Lee Tomlin is, cannot cope with the pressures of success

Thank you, Job's comforter!

Let's just see what happens, shall we? It's over to Tomlin now and only time will tell; or do you have experience in psychology, precognition and a personal insight to the guys state of mind and character on top of all your other claimed (but hard to substantiate) traits?

Until now, people have judged Tomlin on his footballing prowess rather than his personal attributes and he has failed to be all that might have been expected. This 'article' may give him some leeway (I hope it does) but he will still be judged on what he does in a Cardiff City shirt and for the money he is on, that is how it should be

As an aside, this likely explains Tomlin's comments that the club (and manager in particular) have been nothing but supportive of him in his time at the club

Sir Jimmy - me, me me ‘Scoular’

The man that invented the word pompous.

I said a while ago, didn't I ,that we'd only find out the truth about his problems when he wrote an expose in one of the newspapers .
He's the latest in a long series of faulted players including some really great players who go along like this, and I'm afraid the newspaper "confessional" is usually the swan song rather than a renaissance. Of course I share the hopeful sentiments expressed here, and if he can correct the problem no one will be more delighted than me, but I think we'd be unwise to make any assumptions that anything will change.
It's a terrible thing that some very very talented players, which I think Lee Tomlin is, cannot cope with the pressures of success

Thank you, Job's comforter!

Let's just see what happens, shall we? It's over to Tomlin now and only time will tell; or do you have experience in psychology, precognition and a personal insight to the guys personal state and character on top of all your other claimed (but hard to substantiate) traits?

Until now, people have judged Tomlin on his footballing prowess rather than his personal attributes and he has failed to be all that might have been expected. This 'article' may give him some leeway (I hope it does) but he will still be judged on what he does in a Cardiff City shirt and for the money he is on, that is how it should be

As an aside, this likely explains Tomlin's comments that the club (and manager in particular) have been nothing but supportive of him in his time at the club

Once again you divert from the thing being discussed to aim a personal attack upon me. What's more, I see that one of your little chums jumps in to try and tag team me.
I have no idea why you're so obsessed with my background because I've never "claimed" anything about it here. It's got nothing whatever to do with discussing football and, quite frankly , nothing to do with you. Insofar as I give a rats arse, ( which isn't much actually ), I assume that you feel challenged because you're used to talking down to people, but it's very unpleasant and impolite so I wish you'd stop it.

In an attempt to get back to the subject in hand, and since you ask, I have got experience of people losing the plot and that effecting their ability to carry out their duties or manage their personal affairs, but my comments here were specifically based upon a number of footballers who've had these problems - Denis Wise comes to mind as an example. They tend to follow a particular pattern, which is how I was able to foresee the " confessional " newspaper interview and, unfortunately it's usually far too late by the time it gets to that stage.
Footballers have a very short playing career due to age, and this is even more so than it used to be, so any improvement is time limited isn't it ?
If you want me to be blunt, then posting pictures of yourself in your underpants to prove you're fit and telling the press about your mental problems probably aren't indicators of a full recovery, and extreme sudden weight loss is more often a sign of depression than improved fitness. However, as you will undoubtedly point out, I'm not a psychiatrist, and it's not my intention to attempt an amateur diagnosis
Based upon all of this , I'm not quite as optimistic as some seem to be that we can expect a dynamic improvement in his contribution. I certainly hope I'm wrong because I think he's a very talented player who, if he could deliver, would solve many problems in our team. Far more importantly, I would like to see him happier and more content in himself.

No one would be more delighted than me if he made good for the team and himself this season, it's just that I don't think anyone should be holding their breath or relying upon it.

Mental health issues like Anxiety, agoraphobia and depression are awful to deal with, I know from personal experience.

Glad he is on the up at the moment but it is always there just under the smile no matter how hard you fight it, it does not go away permanently and little random things can set it off, they are you're triggers and once identified can be dealt with as long as you speak about them, the key is keeping it locked down and not letting it back out. A lot harder than people think.

Good luck to him

For me the sight of an all guns blazing Tomlin excites me more than our new lads(no disrespect).And it's great to see people on here(like me)who had written him off getting behind him.

I’ve always found the allegations that he’s ‘toxic’ in
The changing room a bit unfounded. Obviously social media will only give us a limited insight but he’s always bantering with the other lads.

Hopefully now the worst is behind him and he can kick on and be an asset for us this year but I’d hope that if he hits a slump people don’t jump on his back straight away.

I said a while ago, didn't I ,that we'd only find out the truth about his problems when he wrote an expose in one of the newspapers .
He's the latest in a long series of faulted players including some really great players who go along like this, and I'm afraid the newspaper "confessional" is usually the swan song rather than a renaissance. Of course I share the hopeful sentiments expressed here, and if he can correct the problem no one will be more delighted than me, but I think we'd be unwise to make any assumptions that anything will change.
It's a terrible thing that some very very talented players, which I think Lee Tomlin is, cannot cope with the pressures of success

Thank you, Job's comforter!

Let's just see what happens, shall we? It's over to Tomlin now and only time will tell; or do you have experience in psychology, precognition and a personal insight to the guys personal state and character on top of all your other claimed (but hard to substantiate) traits?

Until now, people have judged Tomlin on his footballing prowess rather than his personal attributes and he has failed to be all that might have been expected. This 'article' may give him some leeway (I hope it does) but he will still be judged on what he does in a Cardiff City shirt and for the money he is on, that is how it should be

As an aside, this likely explains Tomlin's comments that the club (and manager in particular) have been nothing but supportive of him in his time at the club

Once again you divert from the thing being discussed to aim a personal attack upon me. What's more, I see that one of your little chums jumps in to try and tag team me.
I have no idea why you're so obsessed with my background because I've never "claimed" anything about it here. It's got nothing whatever to do with discussing football and, quite frankly , nothing to do with you. Insofar as I give a rats arse, ( which isn't much actually ), I assume that you feel challenged because you're used to talking down to people, but it's very unpleasant and impolite so I wish you'd stop it.

In an attempt to get back to the subject in hand, and since you ask, I have got experience of people losing the plot and that effecting their ability to carry out their duties or manage their personal affairs, but my comments here were specifically based upon a number of footballers who've had these problems - Denis Wise comes to mind as an example. They tend to follow a particular pattern, which is how I was able to foresee the " confessional " newspaper interview and, unfortunately it's usually far too late by the time it gets to that stage.
Footballers have a very short playing career due to age, and this is even more so than it used to be, so any improvement is time limited isn't it ?
If you want me to be blunt, then posting pictures of yourself in your underpants to prove you're fit and telling the press about your mental problems probably aren't indicators of a full recovery, and extreme sudden weight loss is more often a sign of depression than improved fitness. However, as you will undoubtedly point out, I'm not a psychiatrist, and it's not my intention to attempt an amateur diagnosis
Based upon all of this , I'm not quite as optimistic as some seem to be that we can expect a dynamic improvement in his contribution. I certainly hope I'm wrong because I think he's a very talented player who, if he could deliver, would solve many problems in our team. Far more importantly, I would like to see him happier and more content in himself.

No one would be more delighted than me if he made good for the team and himself this season, it's just that I don't think anyone should be holding their breath or relying upon it.

He was in shorts in that pic you are referring to,you can only make out his calvins if you zoom in on it and no offence mate,having looked through your posts,you do come across as a bit of a know-it-all,it's one thing to have a opinion,completely different to professing knowledge on evergthing I have myself stated his fitness was an issue,but let me explain away your myth regards depression being more often a reason for "sudden extreme weight loss",this does not usually lead to a six pack and I can state for fact,that airing your problems can be the factor that leads to an improved sense of well being,and therefore fitness,no doubt you will shoot this theory down,but ffs the man has had demons,and looks to be doing the right thing to banish them.why do you assume people are holding their breath ,or more to the point,relying on him,good luck to him I say,only time will tell.in the meantime he deserves our backing and support,not fans writing off "his confessional " as a swansong.and before you start a retort, I work with terminally ill on a daily basis,so have a great understanding of depression,and the pitfalls that come with it.people who have depression need support mate,and it seems the majority of our fans are willing to do that,if he can keep his head,he will play a big part in the coming season, if he can't, well that's another matter,but until the season gets under way,we know jack.

Good luck Lee and show us what you can do

I said a while ago, didn't I ,that we'd only find out the truth about his problems when he wrote an expose in one of the newspapers .
He's the latest in a long series of faulted players including some really great players who go along like this, and I'm afraid the newspaper "confessional" is usually the swan song rather than a renaissance. Of course I share the hopeful sentiments expressed here, and if he can correct the problem no one will be more delighted than me, but I think we'd be unwise to make any assumptions that anything will change.
It's a terrible thing that some very very talented players, which I think Lee Tomlin is, cannot cope with the pressures of success

Thank you, Job's comforter!

Let's just see what happens, shall we? It's over to Tomlin now and only time will tell; or do you have experience in psychology, precognition and a personal insight to the guys personal state and character on top of all your other claimed (but hard to substantiate) traits?

Until now, people have judged Tomlin on his footballing prowess rather than his personal attributes and he has failed to be all that might have been expected. This 'article' may give him some leeway (I hope it does) but he will still be judged on what he does in a Cardiff City shirt and for the money he is on, that is how it should be

As an aside, this likely explains Tomlin's comments that the club (and manager in particular) have been nothing but supportive of him in his time at the club

Once again you divert from the thing being discussed to aim a personal attack upon me. What's more, I see that one of your little chums jumps in to try and tag team me.
I have no idea why you're so obsessed with my background because I've never "claimed" anything about it here. It's got nothing whatever to do with discussing football and, quite frankly , nothing to do with you. Insofar as I give a rats arse, ( which isn't much actually ), I assume that you feel challenged because you're used to talking down to people, but it's very unpleasant and impolite so I wish you'd stop it.

In an attempt to get back to the subject in hand, and since you ask, I have got experience of people losing the plot and that effecting their ability to carry out their duties or manage their personal affairs, but my comments here were specifically based upon a number of footballers who've had these problems - Denis Wise comes to mind as an example. They tend to follow a particular pattern, which is how I was able to foresee the " confessional " newspaper interview and, unfortunately it's usually far too late by the time it gets to that stage.
Footballers have a very short playing career due to age, and this is even more so than it used to be, so any improvement is time limited isn't it ?
If you want me to be blunt, then posting pictures of yourself in your underpants to prove you're fit and telling the press about your mental problems probably aren't indicators of a full recovery, and extreme sudden weight loss is more often a sign of depression than improved fitness. However, as you will undoubtedly point out, I'm not a psychiatrist, and it's not my intention to attempt an amateur diagnosis
Based upon all of this , I'm not quite as optimistic as some seem to be that we can expect a dynamic improvement in his contribution. I certainly hope I'm wrong because I think he's a very talented player who, if he could deliver, would solve many problems in our team. Far more importantly, I would like to see him happier and more content in himself.

No one would be more delighted than me if he made good for the team and himself this season, it's just that I don't think anyone should be holding their breath or relying upon it.

Sorry, it took some time to break that down into readable sections that made actual sense; but as I stated previously your use of written English isn't the best, despite your inferences that you and your opinions are a class above

I like the "in so far as I give a rat's arse (which isn't much)" part of your biting rant, as the evidence from that post alone suggests otherwise

You talk about me trying off the subject but a review of what I wrote will inform you that I stuck to the topic and simply disagreed with your assumption that everyone who goes through what Lee Tomlin appears to have done is doomed to failure when the evidence shows that isn't differently in my inimitable way by mocking your latest incarnation

You always use the words "obsessed/obsession" when the going gets tough and it has been known for you to use phrases similar to (quote) "What's more, I see that one of your little chums jumps in to try and tag team me" and that, as usual, is you being very disingenuous to those people as individuals who can think for themselves and see the evidence before them

I'm not obsessed, fella; I just react to what I see/read and of late (as I stated elsewhere) your halo has slipped a fair bit and your own obsession for being on here and always right is coming to the fore

It was only ever a matter of time!

I said a while ago, didn't I ,that we'd only find out the truth about his problems when he wrote an expose in one of the newspapers .
He's the latest in a long series of faulted players including some really great players who go along like this, and I'm afraid the newspaper "confessional" is usually the swan song rather than a renaissance. Of course I share the hopeful sentiments expressed here, and if he can correct the problem no one will be more delighted than me, but I think we'd be unwise to make any assumptions that anything will change.
It's a terrible thing that some very very talented players, which I think Lee Tomlin is, cannot cope with the pressures of success

Thank you, Job's comforter!

Let's just see what happens, shall we? It's over to Tomlin now and only time will tell; or do you have experience in psychology, precognition and a personal insight to the guys personal state and character on top of all your other claimed (but hard to substantiate) traits?

Until now, people have judged Tomlin on his footballing prowess rather than his personal attributes and he has failed to be all that might have been expected. This 'article' may give him some leeway (I hope it does) but he will still be judged on what he does in a Cardiff City shirt and for the money he is on, that is how it should be

As an aside, this likely explains Tomlin's comments that the club (and manager in particular) have been nothing but supportive of him in his time at the club

Once again you divert from the thing being discussed to aim a personal attack upon me. What's more, I see that one of your little chums jumps in to try and tag team me.
I have no idea why you're so obsessed with my background because I've never "claimed" anything about it here. It's got nothing whatever to do with discussing football and, quite frankly , nothing to do with you. Insofar as I give a rats arse, ( which isn't much actually ), I assume that you feel challenged because you're used to talking down to people, but it's very unpleasant and impolite so I wish you'd stop it.

In an attempt to get back to the subject in hand, and since you ask, I have got experience of people losing the plot and that effecting their ability to carry out their duties or manage their personal affairs, but my comments here were specifically based upon a number of footballers who've had these problems - Denis Wise comes to mind as an example. They tend to follow a particular pattern, which is how I was able to foresee the " confessional " newspaper interview and, unfortunately it's usually far too late by the time it gets to that stage.
Footballers have a very short playing career due to age, and this is even more so than it used to be, so any improvement is time limited isn't it ?
If you want me to be blunt, then posting pictures of yourself in your underpants to prove you're fit and telling the press about your mental problems probably aren't indicators of a full recovery, and extreme sudden weight loss is more often a sign of depression than improved fitness. However, as you will undoubtedly point out, I'm not a psychiatrist, and it's not my intention to attempt an amateur diagnosis
Based upon all of this , I'm not quite as optimistic as some seem to be that we can expect a dynamic improvement in his contribution. I certainly hope I'm wrong because I think he's a very talented player who, if he could deliver, would solve many problems in our team. Far more importantly, I would like to see him happier and more content in himself.

No one would be more delighted than me if he made good for the team and himself this season, it's just that I don't think anyone should be holding their breath or relying upon it.

Sorry, it took some time to break that down into readable sections that made actual sense; but as I stated previously your use of written English isn't the best, despite your inferences that you and your opinions are a class above

I like the "in so far as I give a rat's arse (which isn't much)" part of your biting rant, as the evidence from that post alone suggests otherwise

You talk about me trying off the subject but a review of what I wrote will inform you that I stuck to the topic and simply disagreed with your assumption that everyone who goes through what Lee Tomlin appears to have done is doomed to failure when the evidence shows that isn't differently in my inimitable way by mocking your latest incarnation

You always use the words "obsessed/obsession" when the going gets tough and it has been known for you to use phrases similar to (quote) "What's more, I see that one of your little chums jumps in to try and tag team me" and that, as usual, is you being very disingenuous to those people as individuals who can think for themselves and see the evidence before them

I'm not obsessed, fella; I just react to what I see/read and of late (as I stated elsewhere) your halo has slipped a fair bit and your own obsession for being on here and always right is coming to the fore

It was only ever a matter of time!

PS: I hope you read bluesince62's post (above) as it contains some sound comments

In addition, I would suggest that you refrain from 'grouping' people into boxes for convenience. It's likely you don't know too many people on this Forum, so don't know their situations and/or what they have either been through or assisted others to overcome in the field of topic

I said a while ago, didn't I ,that we'd only find out the truth about his problems when he wrote an expose in one of the newspapers .
He's the latest in a long series of faulted players including some really great players who go along like this, and I'm afraid the newspaper "confessional" is usually the swan song rather than a renaissance. Of course I share the hopeful sentiments expressed here, and if he can correct the problem no one will be more delighted than me, but I think we'd be unwise to make any assumptions that anything will change.
It's a terrible thing that some very very talented players, which I think Lee Tomlin is, cannot cope with the pressures of success

"Who'd want a mental at the club" is what I think you said only a few days ago

I said a while ago, didn't I ,that we'd only find out the truth about his problems when he wrote an expose in one of the newspapers .
He's the latest in a long series of faulted players including some really great players who go along like this, and I'm afraid the newspaper "confessional" is usually the swan song rather than a renaissance. Of course I share the hopeful sentiments expressed here, and if he can correct the problem no one will be more delighted than me, but I think we'd be unwise to make any assumptions that anything will change.
It's a terrible thing that some very very talented players, which I think Lee Tomlin is, cannot cope with the pressures of success

"Who'd want a mental at the club" is what I think you said only a few days ago

I really don't think I did say that you know , but do feel free to jump in when the pack are circling .

Glad to say I never got involved in the discussions about him. To be honest, could not understand what the problem was as he is obviously very talented. Mental health issues can be a terrible thing, and if he can control them I think he can be a valuable asset to us.

I said a while ago, didn't I ,that we'd only find out the truth about his problems when he wrote an expose in one of the newspapers .
He's the latest in a long series of faulted players including some really great players who go along like this, and I'm afraid the newspaper "confessional" is usually the swan song rather than a renaissance. Of course I share the hopeful sentiments expressed here, and if he can correct the problem no one will be more delighted than me, but I think we'd be unwise to make any assumptions that anything will change.
It's a terrible thing that some very very talented players, which I think Lee Tomlin is, cannot cope with the pressures of success

Thank you, Job's comforter!

Let's just see what happens, shall we? It's over to Tomlin now and only time will tell; or do you have experience in psychology, precognition and a personal insight to the guys personal state and character on top of all your other claimed (but hard to substantiate) traits?

Until now, people have judged Tomlin on his footballing prowess rather than his personal attributes and he has failed to be all that might have been expected. This 'article' may give him some leeway (I hope it does) but he will still be judged on what he does in a Cardiff City shirt and for the money he is on, that is how it should be

As an aside, this likely explains Tomlin's comments that the club (and manager in particular) have been nothing but supportive of him in his time at the club

Once again you divert from the thing being discussed to aim a personal attack upon me. What's more, I see that one of your little chums jumps in to try and tag team me.
I have no idea why you're so obsessed with my background because I've never "claimed" anything about it here. It's got nothing whatever to do with discussing football and, quite frankly , nothing to do with you. Insofar as I give a rats arse, ( which isn't much actually ), I assume that you feel challenged because you're used to talking down to people, but it's very unpleasant and impolite so I wish you'd stop it.

In an attempt to get back to the subject in hand, and since you ask, I have got experience of people losing the plot and that effecting their ability to carry out their duties or manage their personal affairs, but my comments here were specifically based upon a number of footballers who've had these problems - Denis Wise comes to mind as an example. They tend to follow a particular pattern, which is how I was able to foresee the " confessional " newspaper interview and, unfortunately it's usually far too late by the time it gets to that stage.
Footballers have a very short playing career due to age, and this is even more so than it used to be, so any improvement is time limited isn't it ?
If you want me to be blunt, then posting pictures of yourself in your underpants to prove you're fit and telling the press about your mental problems probably aren't indicators of a full recovery, and extreme sudden weight loss is more often a sign of depression than improved fitness. However, as you will undoubtedly point out, I'm not a psychiatrist, and it's not my intention to attempt an amateur diagnosis
Based upon all of this , I'm not quite as optimistic as some seem to be that we can expect a dynamic improvement in his contribution. I certainly hope I'm wrong because I think he's a very talented player who, if he could deliver, would solve many problems in our team. Far more importantly, I would like to see him happier and more content in himself.

No one would be more delighted than me if he made good for the team and himself this season, it's just that I don't think anyone should be holding their breath or relying upon it.

Sorry, it took some time to break that down into readable sections that made actual sense; but as I stated previously your use of written English isn't the best, despite your inferences that you and your opinions are a class above

I like the "in so far as I give a rat's arse (which isn't much)" part of your biting rant, as the evidence from that post alone suggests otherwise

You talk about me trying off the subject but a review of what I wrote will inform you that I stuck to the topic and simply disagreed with your assumption that everyone who goes through what Lee Tomlin appears to have done is doomed to failure when the evidence shows that isn't differently in my inimitable way by mocking your latest incarnation

You always use the words "obsessed/obsession" when the going gets tough and it has been known for you to use phrases similar to (quote) "What's more, I see that one of your little chums jumps in to try and tag team me" and that, as usual, is you being very disingenuous to those people as individuals who can think for themselves and see the evidence before them

I'm not obsessed, fella; I just react to what I see/read and of late (as I stated elsewhere) your halo has slipped a fair bit and your own obsession for being on here and always right is coming to the fore

It was only ever a matter of time!

PS: I hope you read bluesince62's post (above) as it contains some sound comments

In addition, I would suggest that you refrain from 'grouping' people into boxes for convenience. It's likely you don't know too many people on this Forum, so don't know their situations and/or what they have either been through or assisted others to overcome in the field of topic

Thanks for your revue of my written language. Must just mention that if I'd suggested that " my opinions are a class above" , I'd have IMPLIED it - you'd have inferred it, and by the way a sentence needs a subject. I mean ,I wouldn't say anything ,but you seem to be setting yourself up as an expert.
Again , I can't see why you want to try and push me around from behind your keyboard instead of talking about the subject, and I'm a bit mystified why you and one or two others want to act like children in a schoolyard forming little gangs to pick on someone.

Why don't you just state your opinions on the subject and let others do the same , which is the purpose and point of discussing things. I repeat that I really don't care if you've formed some irrational dislike for someone on a forum about whom you know nothing . I'm interested in your opinions about football or other subjects , but I'm not interested in hearing you spit bile at me or anyone else or sharing your enormous ego with me.

As you've said, we don't know who we're talking to on here and whilst you're certainly not going to bother or upset me, you should bear in mind that you could just as easily be taunting a youngster or unstable individual who could be very intimidated and upset by it.

Let me ask you, once again, to lay off the childish name calling and stay on point.

I said a while ago, didn't I ,that we'd only find out the truth about his problems when he wrote an expose in one of the newspapers .
He's the latest in a long series of faulted players including some really great players who go along like this, and I'm afraid the newspaper "confessional" is usually the swan song rather than a renaissance. Of course I share the hopeful sentiments expressed here, and if he can correct the problem no one will be more delighted than me, but I think we'd be unwise to make any assumptions that anything will change.
It's a terrible thing that some very very talented players, which I think Lee Tomlin is, cannot cope with the pressures of success

Thank you, Job's comforter!

Let's just see what happens, shall we? It's over to Tomlin now and only time will tell; or do you have experience in psychology, precognition and a personal insight to the guys personal state and character on top of all your other claimed (but hard to substantiate) traits?

Until now, people have judged Tomlin on his footballing prowess rather than his personal attributes and he has failed to be all that might have been expected. This 'article' may give him some leeway (I hope it does) but he will still be judged on what he does in a Cardiff City shirt and for the money he is on, that is how it should be

As an aside, this likely explains Tomlin's comments that the club (and manager in particular) have been nothing but supportive of him in his time at the club

Once again you divert from the thing being discussed to aim a personal attack upon me. What's more, I see that one of your little chums jumps in to try and tag team me.
I have no idea why you're so obsessed with my background because I've never "claimed" anything about it here. It's got nothing whatever to do with discussing football and, quite frankly , nothing to do with you. Insofar as I give a rats arse, ( which isn't much actually ), I assume that you feel challenged because you're used to talking down to people, but it's very unpleasant and impolite so I wish you'd stop it.

In an attempt to get back to the subject in hand, and since you ask, I have got experience of people losing the plot and that effecting their ability to carry out their duties or manage their personal affairs, but my comments here were specifically based upon a number of footballers who've had these problems - Denis Wise comes to mind as an example. They tend to follow a particular pattern, which is how I was able to foresee the " confessional " newspaper interview and, unfortunately it's usually far too late by the time it gets to that stage.
Footballers have a very short playing career due to age, and this is even more so than it used to be, so any improvement is time limited isn't it ?
If you want me to be blunt, then posting pictures of yourself in your underpants to prove you're fit and telling the press about your mental problems probably aren't indicators of a full recovery, and extreme sudden weight loss is more often a sign of depression than improved fitness. However, as you will undoubtedly point out, I'm not a psychiatrist, and it's not my intention to attempt an amateur diagnosis
Based upon all of this , I'm not quite as optimistic as some seem to be that we can expect a dynamic improvement in his contribution. I certainly hope I'm wrong because I think he's a very talented player who, if he could deliver, would solve many problems in our team. Far more importantly, I would like to see him happier and more content in himself.

No one would be more delighted than me if he made good for the team and himself this season, it's just that I don't think anyone should be holding their breath or relying upon it.

He was in shorts in that pic you are referring to,you can only make out his calvins if you zoom in on it and no offence mate,having looked through your posts,you do come across as a bit of a know-it-all,it's one thing to have a opinion,completely different to professing knowledge on evergthing I have myself stated his fitness was an issue,but let me explain away your myth regards depression being more often a reason for "sudden extreme weight loss",this does not usually lead to a six pack and I can state for fact,that airing your problems can be the factor that leads to an improved sense of well being,and therefore fitness,no doubt you will shoot this theory down,but ffs the man has had demons,and looks to be doing the right thing to banish them.why do you assume people are holding their breath ,or more to the point,relying on him,good luck to him I say,only time will tell.in the meantime he deserves our backing and support,not fans writing off "his confessional " as a swansong.and before you start a retort, I work with terminally ill on a daily basis,so have a great understanding of depression,and the pitfalls that come with it.people who have depression need support mate,and it seems the majority of our fans are willing to do that,if he can keep his head,he will play a big part in the coming season, if he can't, well that's another matter,but until the season gets under way,we know jack.

Well firstly I'm sorry if I come across as a " know it all". I don't mean to do that, and I can understand that I may seem a bit assertive but that's actually only because I don't usually say stuff which I haven't taken the time to think about first. Perhaps it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I hope I'm not nasty to anyone.

As far as the player is concerned, I did say and repeat that I hope he will be successful for the club but cautioned against anyone relying on that happening. As far as the boy himself is concerned on a personal level, well of course I hope and pray that he can put his problems behind him.
My doubts as to whether a full recovery AS A PLAYER are based upon the whole known history and the pattern we have observed in similar cases in the past. Perhaps my somewhat direct manner of speaking gave the impression that I was uncaring fir the individual , but I can assure you that this is not the case.

All we can really do now is hope that he's back on track, can realise his obvious potential, and get City back to the Premier League,

I said a while ago, didn't I ,that we'd only find out the truth about his problems when he wrote an expose in one of the newspapers .
He's the latest in a long series of faulted players including some really great players who go along like this, and I'm afraid the newspaper "confessional" is usually the swan song rather than a renaissance. Of course I share the hopeful sentiments expressed here, and if he can correct the problem no one will be more delighted than me, but I think we'd be unwise to make any assumptions that anything will change.
It's a terrible thing that some very very talented players, which I think Lee Tomlin is, cannot cope with the pressures of success

Thank you, Job's comforter!

Let's just see what happens, shall we? It's over to Tomlin now and only time will tell; or do you have experience in psychology, precognition and a personal insight to the guys personal state and character on top of all your other claimed (but hard to substantiate) traits?

Until now, people have judged Tomlin on his footballing prowess rather than his personal attributes and he has failed to be all that might have been expected. This 'article' may give him some leeway (I hope it does) but he will still be judged on what he does in a Cardiff City shirt and for the money he is on, that is how it should be

As an aside, this likely explains Tomlin's comments that the club (and manager in particular) have been nothing but supportive of him in his time at the club

Once again you divert from the thing being discussed to aim a personal attack upon me. What's more, I see that one of your little chums jumps in to try and tag team me.
I have no idea why you're so obsessed with my background because I've never "claimed" anything about it here. It's got nothing whatever to do with discussing football and, quite frankly , nothing to do with you. Insofar as I give a rats arse, ( which isn't much actually ), I assume that you feel challenged because you're used to talking down to people, but it's very unpleasant and impolite so I wish you'd stop it.

In an attempt to get back to the subject in hand, and since you ask, I have got experience of people losing the plot and that effecting their ability to carry out their duties or manage their personal affairs, but my comments here were specifically based upon a number of footballers who've had these problems - Denis Wise comes to mind as an example. They tend to follow a particular pattern, which is how I was able to foresee the " confessional " newspaper interview and, unfortunately it's usually far too late by the time it gets to that stage.
Footballers have a very short playing career due to age, and this is even more so than it used to be, so any improvement is time limited isn't it ?
If you want me to be blunt, then posting pictures of yourself in your underpants to prove you're fit and telling the press about your mental problems probably aren't indicators of a full recovery, and extreme sudden weight loss is more often a sign of depression than improved fitness. However, as you will undoubtedly point out, I'm not a psychiatrist, and it's not my intention to attempt an amateur diagnosis
Based upon all of this , I'm not quite as optimistic as some seem to be that we can expect a dynamic improvement in his contribution. I certainly hope I'm wrong because I think he's a very talented player who, if he could deliver, would solve many problems in our team. Far more importantly, I would like to see him happier and more content in himself.

No one would be more delighted than me if he made good for the team and himself this season, it's just that I don't think anyone should be holding their breath or relying upon it.

Sorry, it took some time to break that down into readable sections that made actual sense; but as I stated previously your use of written English isn't the best, despite your inferences that you and your opinions are a class above

I like the "in so far as I give a rat's arse (which isn't much)" part of your biting rant, as the evidence from that post alone suggests otherwise

You talk about me trying off the subject but a review of what I wrote will inform you that I stuck to the topic and simply disagreed with your assumption that everyone who goes through what Lee Tomlin appears to have done is doomed to failure when the evidence shows that isn't differently in my inimitable way by mocking your latest incarnation

You always use the words "obsessed/obsession" when the going gets tough and it has been known for you to use phrases similar to (quote) "What's more, I see that one of your little chums jumps in to try and tag team me" and that, as usual, is you being very disingenuous to those people as individuals who can think for themselves and see the evidence before them

I'm not obsessed, fella; I just react to what I see/read and of late (as I stated elsewhere) your halo has slipped a fair bit and your own obsession for being on here and always right is coming to the fore

It was only ever a matter of time!

PS: I hope you read bluesince62's post (above) as it contains some sound comments

In addition, I would suggest that you refrain from 'grouping' people into boxes for convenience. It's likely you don't know too many people on this Forum, so don't know their situations and/or what they have either been through or assisted others to overcome in the field of topic

Thanks for your revue of my written language. Must just mention that if I'd suggested that " my opinions are a class above" , I'd have IMPLIED it - you'd have inferred it, and by the way a sentence needs a subject. I mean ,I wouldn't say anything ,but you seem to be setting yourself up as an expert.
Again , I can't see why you want to try and push me around from behind your keyboard instead of talking about the subject, and I'm a bit mystified why you and one or two others want to act like children in a schoolyard forming little gangs to pick on someone.

Why don't you just state your opinions on the subject and let others do the same , which is the purpose and point of discussing things. I repeat that I really don't care if you've formed some irrational dislike for someone on a forum about whom you know nothing . I'm interested in your opinions about football or other subjects , but I'm not interested in hearing you spit bile at me or anyone else or sharing your enormous ego with me.

As you've said, we don't know who we're talking to on here and whilst you're certainly not going to bother or upset me, you should bear in mind that you could just as easily be taunting a youngster or unstable individual who could be very intimidated and upset by it.

Let me ask you, once again, to lay off the childish name calling and stay on point.

Actually, having had time to reflect upon this, I've decided that I'm far too old to be getting upset by your nonsense and rudeness. This is supposed to be fun, not unpleasant and, whilst there are some very nice people here who have polite , intelligent and often entertaining conversations , it's not worth putting up with constant insults and rudeness from you Sven.

I've asked you several times to stick to the conversation , but you won't do that and whilst I've always believed that bullies must be stood up to , there's not much to be gained from constantly countering your abuse every time you try to catch up with what the real Cardiff City supporters are talking about. Much as I love reading their opinions and keeping in touch with the current fans, I find that you hone in upon me on every occasion with your stupid little vendettas.

Therefore I won't bother to participate for a while at least because there's not any point in continuing in what you have converted into a very negative thing.