" Top bosses back remain "

Monday 20th June 2016

Top bosses including Sir Richard Branson, the Premier League chair and car industry executives have backed Remain ahead of Thursday's EU vote.

Premier League chair Richard Scudamore said the 20 clubs in the top tier wanted to remain and that leaving would be "incongruous" in the context of the league's commitment to "openness".

Meanwhile, Sir Richard warned a British exit from the EU would be "devastating" for the UK's long-term prosperity.

Vote Leave rejected the comments.

John Longworth, chair of Vote Leave business council, said the UK would be better off outside the EU.

"The single market isn't a nirvana, it's a mirage. The single market's a protectionist area.

"[Under Brexit] We'd be able to remove the external barriers, reduce the cost of clothing and footwear. Reduce the cost of food products we can't produce in the UK because at the moment the EU puts tariffs up to the rest of the world which we have to pay for," he told the BBC's Today programme.

But the car industry trade body, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders' (SMMT), warned leaving the EU would increase costs and threaten jobs.

"Remaining will allow the UK to retain the influence on which the unique and successful UK automotive sector depends," said chief executive Mike Hawes.

Directors at Toyota UK, Vauxhall, Jaguar Land Rover and BMW, as well as from component makers GKN and Magal Engineering, also voiced their support.

Rory Harvey, chairman of Vauxhall, said: "We are part of a fully integrated European company where we benefit from the free movement of goods and people. We believe not to be part of the EU would be undesirable for our business and the sector as a whole."

Meanwhile, Premier League boss Mr Scudamore told BBC Radio 5 live that leaving would be "incongruous" in the context of the league's commitment to "openness".

"There is an openness about the Premier League which I think it would be completely incongruous if we were to take the opposite position," he said.

Sir Richard Branson, who has long backed the Remain campaign, wrote an open letter, recalling "how difficult it was" for businesses to operate effectively before the EU, adding he was "saddened" at the prospect of returning to those days.

"Although I've been living in the British Virgin Islands for some time now, I have never stopped caring passionately about the UK and its great people. I am one of the few business people who can remember how difficult it was before the EU was formed," the Virgin Group boss wrote.

And drinks giant Diageo's chief executive Ivan Menezes wrote to the company's 4,773 UK employees, telling them that it would be "better for the UK, better for Diageo and better for the Scotch whisky industry that we remain in".

Mr Menezes said Diageo benefited from ease of access to the European single market, as well as trade deals that the EU had negotiated with the rest of the world.

"The EU has so far concluded, or is negotiating, over 50 of these global agreements, many of which provide significant commercial benefits for Diageo," Mr Menezes said in his letter. Negotiating new deals after a Brexit could take years, he said.

The Leave camp fought back against the Remain camp claims.

On the Premier League, Vote Leave argued Britain's exit from the EU could shore up more funds to be invested in grassroots sports.

"EU rules hurt both our ability to develop home grown talent and restrict access to the global talent pool.

"That's the worst of both worlds for football fans and the teams they support," said Vote Leave's Robert Oxley.

The group also dismissed Sir Richard Branson's and drinks giant Diageo boss Mr Menezes' proclamations of support for Remain, claiming they had already voiced pro-EU support and the latest comments were no surprise.

Vote Leave group's chief executive, Matthew Elliott, also rejected the idea that leaving would hurt the car industry, instead saying it could help exports.

"We know that British car exports are increasingly going to the rest of the world, not the EU. As such, a vote to leave could provide a boost to the industry as we would be free to sign free trade agreements with emerging markets - something we are currently forbidden from doing by the EU."

He also pointed out that many car company executives had urged Britain to join the euro. "They were wrong then and they are wrong now," Mr Elliott added.

As Thursday's Referendum approaches, executives have recently stepped up support for the Leave and Remain camps.

On Sunday, the chief executive of energy giant EDF Energy, Vincent de Rivaz, wrote to his UK staff outlining what he says are the benefits of continued EU membership.

Earlier this month Lord Bamford, chairman of JCB, one of Britain's most successful manufacturers, wrote to his company's 6,500 employees in the UK to explain why he favours a vote to leave the European Union.

Last weekend, entrepreneur Sir James Dyson told the Daily Telegraph Britain would gain more from leaving the EU than it would lose.

Last week, BT bosses and union leaders came out in favour of the Remain camp.

Big business and financial firms have generally been in favour of staying in the EU, although surveys suggest that small businesses are more evenly split.

Last week, a poll by the Federation of Small Businesses suggested that 42% of members "could still be swayed on how to vote" with 52% "saying they didn't feel they had the information they needed".

Top bosses will back remain because there making more millions on the millions they already got by staying in

Top bosses will back remain because there making more millions on the millions they already got by staying in

Of course this is the reason....

Then them top bosses will quite happily accept millions off the EU to close down factories and reopen in Eastern Europe.

I run a small business and if we leave I will immediately have to increase my retail prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK.
How long will it take for the UK to organise itself to arrange trade agreements with all the markets outside the Eu as well as the Eu itself? Who knows but don't expect it to be a quick and simple process. In the meantime my customer's will have to pay 10% more. Of course many will choose not to, and I will see a massive downturn in trade.

Of course Brexit will see a weakened puond which GOve and the others tell us will be good for exports. True I'm sure, but for a country that has such a large gap between the value of exports and what we import, is that not economic suicide?

So Brexiteers, get ready for an increase in the cost of living but at least you will have more low paid jobs available to you when all the Eu migrants currently filling those low paid roles decide to leave the UK.

I run a small business and if we leave I will immediately have to increase my retail prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK.
How long will it take for the UK to organise itself to arrange trade agreements with all the markets outside the Eu as well as the Eu itself? Who knows but don't expect it to be a quick and simple process. In the meantime my customer's will have to pay 10% more. Of course many will choose not to, and I will see a massive downturn in trade.

Of course Brexit will see a weakened puond which GOve and the others tell us will be good for exports. True I'm sure, but for a country that has such a large gap between the value of exports and what we import, is that not economic suicide?

So Brexiteers, get ready for an increase in the cost of living but at least you will have more low paid jobs available to you when all the Eu migrants currently filling those low paid roles decide to leave the UK.

How on earth can you justify saying you'll (quote) "immediately increase my prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK" when the process to leave the EU would take a number of years to implement on all sides?

The markets may vary (certainly initially) but you cannot guarantee at this point what will happen in the medium to long term, so your comments smack of (a) personal opinion, and (b) perhaps even personal gain on the back of a Brexit vote!

Either way fella, you are scare-mongering based on the same unsubstantiated figures and guesstimates as everyone else, i.e. supposition rather than fact!

It don't matter I have faith the country is not stupid enough to vote leave.

It don't matter I have faith the country is not stupid enough to vote leave.

Once again you denigrate the members of this Forum who disagree with you, but I ask you is the more (quote) "stupid" decision to take the chance of self-determination by voting Brexit, or voting to stay in knowing that our national/cultural interests are guaranteed to be further eroded by remaining in the so-called 'club'?

We've not had an easy ride in the EU and what worries a lot of pretty intelligent people (not all Brexit voters are as "stupid" as you have declared them to be! ) is that they know this vote is likely the last chance the UK will EVER get to stop it becoming so integrated into the EU machine that it is no longer identifiable in its own right and cannot EVER trade on its own terms with the rest of the world (who are fast accelerating away from Europe both fiscally and productively)

Staying will suit some but not others; and following Thursday's vote I just hope people are mature enough to accept it and move on, as (either way) there will be no going back!

Neither side should be smug afterwards. This decision will be so momentous that the UK is going to have to take stock about where it wants to position itself in European/World terms and it will need its people to back the decision to the hilt during what will be a bumpy ride either way!

I shall both back the decision to the hilt. And be smug .

When I say stupid. It doesn't mean that anyone who votes leave is stupid. As all the time intelligent people make stupid choices. I believe the country won't vote leave because there no real case put forward to leave. Hence the country won't make a decision it will massively regret. Making one stupid choice doesn't make any stupid. Hope this clears that up

I shall both back the decision to the hilt. And be smug .

When I say stupid. It doesn't mean that anyone who votes leave is stupid. As all the time intelligent people make stupid choices. I believe the country won't vote leave because there no real case put forward to leave. Hence the country won't make a decision it will massively regret. Making one stupid choice doesn't make any stupid. Hope this clears that up

Actually, it doesn't. You've been outrageous with your comments today and should be embarrassed rather than smug with yourself!

I shall both back the decision to the hilt. And be smug .

When I say stupid. It doesn't mean that anyone who votes leave is stupid. As all the time intelligent people make stupid choices. I believe the country won't vote leave because there no real case put forward to leave. Hence the country won't make a decision it will massively regret. Making one stupid choice doesn't make any stupid. Hope this clears that up

Actually, it doesn't. You've been outrageous with your comments today and should be embarrassed rather than smug with yourself!

Just because you don't like, agree or whatever with my posts. Doesn't mean it didn't get cleared up.
Disagree with me by all means but don't let it blur you vision on the reason behind it.

I run a small business and if we leave I will immediately have to increase my retail prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK.
How long will it take for the UK to organise itself to arrange trade agreements with all the markets outside the Eu as well as the Eu itself? Who knows but don't expect it to be a quick and simple process. In the meantime my customer's will have to pay 10% more. Of course many will choose not to, and I will see a massive downturn in trade.

Of course Brexit will see a weakened puond which GOve and the others tell us will be good for exports. True I'm sure, but for a country that has such a large gap between the value of exports and what we import, is that not economic suicide?

So Brexiteers, get ready for an increase in the cost of living but at least you will have more low paid jobs available to you when all the Eu migrants currently filling those low paid roles decide to leave the UK.

How on earth can you justify saying you'll (quote) "immediately increase my prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK" when the process to leave the EU would take a number of years to implement on all sides?

The markets may vary (certainly initially) but you cannot guarantee at this point what will happen in the medium to long term, so your comments smack of (a) personal opinion, and (b) perhaps even personal gain on the back of a Brexit vote!

Either way fella, you are scare-mongering based on the same unsubstantiated figures and guesstimates as everyone else, i.e. supposition rather than fact!

I can say it because the goods I sell are made to order (not holding existing stock), thus any new sales made will be immediately subject to import. If we are no longer part of the Eu then the curret tarrif agreement with South Africa will not be valid. Import duty on the goods I sell is 8%. With an anticipayed currency fluctuation to deal with as well, my price list will need to increase by 10% at retail. It's simple - I will be paying around 10% more to import stock so that will go on the retail price. These are facts not supposition.

I run a small business and if we leave I will immediately have to increase my retail prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK.
How long will it take for the UK to organise itself to arrange trade agreements with all the markets outside the Eu as well as the Eu itself? Who knows but don't expect it to be a quick and simple process. In the meantime my customer's will have to pay 10% more. Of course many will choose not to, and I will see a massive downturn in trade.

Of course Brexit will see a weakened puond which GOve and the others tell us will be good for exports. True I'm sure, but for a country that has such a large gap between the value of exports and what we import, is that not economic suicide?

So Brexiteers, get ready for an increase in the cost of living but at least you will have more low paid jobs available to you when all the Eu migrants currently filling those low paid roles decide to leave the UK.

How on earth can you justify saying you'll (quote) "immediately increase my prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK" when the process to leave the EU would take a number of years to implement on all sides?

The markets may vary (certainly initially) but you cannot guarantee at this point what will happen in the medium to long term, so your comments smack of (a) personal opinion, and (b) perhaps even personal gain on the back of a Brexit vote!

Either way fella, you are scare-mongering based on the same unsubstantiated figures and guesstimates as everyone else, i.e. supposition rather than fact!

I can say it because the goods I sell are made to order (not holding existing stock), thus any new sales made will be immediately subject to import. If we are no longer part of the Eu then the curret tarrif agreement with South Africa will not be valid. Import duty on the goods I sell is 8%. With an anticipayed currency fluctuation to deal with as well, my price list will need to increase by 10% at retail. It's simple - I will be paying around 10% more to import stock so that will go on the retail price. These are facts not supposition.

Great reply. And more than what the poster deserves. Wrapped up in his own self importance and self indulgence. Bigoted beyond the pale.

I run a small business and if we leave I will immediately have to increase my retail prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK.
How long will it take for the UK to organise itself to arrange trade agreements with all the markets outside the Eu as well as the Eu itself? Who knows but don't expect it to be a quick and simple process. In the meantime my customer's will have to pay 10% more. Of course many will choose not to, and I will see a massive downturn in trade.

Of course Brexit will see a weakened puond which GOve and the others tell us will be good for exports. True I'm sure, but for a country that has such a large gap between the value of exports and what we import, is that not economic suicide?

So Brexiteers, get ready for an increase in the cost of living but at least you will have more low paid jobs available to you when all the Eu migrants currently filling those low paid roles decide to leave the UK.

How on earth can you justify saying you'll (quote) "immediately increase my prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK" when the process to leave the EU would take a number of years to implement on all sides?

The markets may vary (certainly initially) but you cannot guarantee at this point what will happen in the medium to long term, so your comments smack of (a) personal opinion, and (b) perhaps even personal gain on the back of a Brexit vote!

Either way fella, you are scare-mongering based on the same unsubstantiated figures and guesstimates as everyone else, i.e. supposition rather than fact!

I can say it because the goods I sell are made to order (not holding existing stock), thus any new sales made will be immediately subject to import. If we are no longer part of the Eu then the curret tarrif agreement with South Africa will not be valid. Import duty on the goods I sell is 8%. With an anticipayed currency fluctuation to deal with as well, my price list will need to increase by 10% at retail. It's simple - I will be paying around 10% more to import stock so that will go on the retail price. These are facts not supposition.

Great reply. And more than what the poster deserves. Wrapped up in his own self importance and self indulgence. Bigoted beyond the pale.

Before moving abroad to work (outside of the EU although - I am happy to pay my taxes on property income in the UK and my National insurance - even though I don't use the NHS) I worked a great deal on EU funded projects in Wales (probably over 400 businesses. I am still in touch with many of the businesses and people who worked on the projects and apart from a few most are overwhelmingly in favour of staying. They benefit from EU negotiated trade deals, the benefitted from EU grant money (when the central government would have let them fold), have benefitted from the Wales/EU innovation in technology projects (broadband Wales) and many benefit from European tourism. Like bluebird-77 they worry about an exit on a number of fronts... the economy will become more conservative (even if in the medium term, not long term, would be enough to see them go out of business) and they worry about having to fork out more money for imported materials and passing on the cost to consumers who may not be able to bear the increases. They also worry about losing part of their EU workforce who work very hard.

I run a small business and if we leave I will immediately have to increase my retail prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK.
How long will it take for the UK to organise itself to arrange trade agreements with all the markets outside the Eu as well as the Eu itself? Who knows but don't expect it to be a quick and simple process. In the meantime my customer's will have to pay 10% more. Of course many will choose not to, and I will see a massive downturn in trade.

Of course Brexit will see a weakened puond which GOve and the others tell us will be good for exports. True I'm sure, but for a country that has such a large gap between the value of exports and what we import, is that not economic suicide?

So Brexiteers, get ready for an increase in the cost of living but at least you will have more low paid jobs available to you when all the Eu migrants currently filling those low paid roles decide to leave the UK.

How on earth can you justify saying you'll (quote) "immediately increase my prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK" when the process to leave the EU would take a number of years to implement on all sides?

The markets may vary (certainly initially) but you cannot guarantee at this point what will happen in the medium to long term, so your comments smack of (a) personal opinion, and (b) perhaps even personal gain on the back of a Brexit vote!

Either way fella, you are scare-mongering based on the same unsubstantiated figures and guesstimates as everyone else, i.e. supposition rather than fact!

I can say it because the goods I sell are made to order (not holding existing stock), thus any new sales made will be immediately subject to import. If we are no longer part of the Eu then the curret tarrif agreement with South Africa will not be valid. Import duty on the goods I sell is 8%. With an anticipayed currency fluctuation to deal with as well, my price list will need to increase by 10% at retail. It's simple - I will be paying around 10% more to import stock so that will go on the retail price. These are facts not supposition.

I see where you are coming from (and I'm certainly not putting down your business, which I hope is flourishing) and I apologise if I came across in a raised tone, but I think you miss the point of my question, i.e. that there will be a phased withdrawal period from EU membership, so if the vote goes that way so surely there will be no immediate need to increase any prices, as the current international tarrif agreements will stand for the foreseeable future (and maybe beyond) whilst?

The fluctuation in currency may have an effect but at this precise time we don't actually know what will happen in that sphere at this moment in time, hence the supposition comment, and on all sides the rhetoric coming out of the politicians is difficult to take as anything but loaded towards their person opinions/needs

Everyone has their own opinion, of course, but separating the truth from the fiction at the moment is difficult and even our PM is increasingly unsure of what he has said previously because it paints a potentially positive picture for the UK if it once again takes control of its own affairs/business

Personally, I will vote Brexit because I can see the future in an increasingly restraining EU and I'm not too sure it will end well. With that in mind, I think the UK is more than capable of holding its own in the world and the only way we'll find out is to give it a go. The 'positive' signs are already there if we look deeply enough and we also know that the people of other countries are/will be holding a watching brief with interest

Is Brexit a gamble? Of course it is, so the question is one of faith in our own people to do the business, so to speak, and I believe they can

I run a small business and if we leave I will immediately have to increase my retail prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK.
How long will it take for the UK to organise itself to arrange trade agreements with all the markets outside the Eu as well as the Eu itself? Who knows but don't expect it to be a quick and simple process. In the meantime my customer's will have to pay 10% more. Of course many will choose not to, and I will see a massive downturn in trade.

Of course Brexit will see a weakened puond which GOve and the others tell us will be good for exports. True I'm sure, but for a country that has such a large gap between the value of exports and what we import, is that not economic suicide?

So Brexiteers, get ready for an increase in the cost of living but at least you will have more low paid jobs available to you when all the Eu migrants currently filling those low paid roles decide to leave the UK.

How on earth can you justify saying you'll (quote) "immediately increase my prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK" when the process to leave the EU would take a number of years to implement on all sides?

The markets may vary (certainly initially) but you cannot guarantee at this point what will happen in the medium to long term, so your comments smack of (a) personal opinion, and (b) perhaps even personal gain on the back of a Brexit vote!

Either way fella, you are scare-mongering based on the same unsubstantiated figures and guesstimates as everyone else, i.e. supposition rather than fact!

I can say it because the goods I sell are made to order (not holding existing stock), thus any new sales made will be immediately subject to import. If we are no longer part of the Eu then the curret tarrif agreement with South Africa will not be valid. Import duty on the goods I sell is 8%. With an anticipayed currency fluctuation to deal with as well, my price list will need to increase by 10% at retail. It's simple - I will be paying around 10% more to import stock so that will go on the retail price. These are facts not supposition.

Great reply. And more than what the poster deserves. Wrapped up in his own self importance and self indulgence. Bigoted beyond the pale.

Before moving abroad to work (outside of the EU although - I am happy to pay my taxes on property income in the UK and my National insurance - even though I don't use the NHS) I worked a great deal on EU funded projects in Wales (probably over 400 businesses. I am still in touch with many of the businesses and people who worked on the projects and apart from a few most are overwhelmingly in favour of staying. They benefit from EU negotiated trade deals, the benefitted from EU grant money (when the central government would have let them fold), have benefitted from the Wales/EU innovation in technology projects (broadband Wales) and many benefit from European tourism. Like bluebird-77 they worry about an exit on a number of fronts... the economy will become more conservative (even if in the medium term, not long term, would be enough to see them go out of business) and they worry about having to fork out more money for imported materials and passing on the cost to consumers who may not be able to bear the increases. They also worry about losing part of their EU workforce who work very hard.

Good, reasoned response and I respect that

I run a small business and if we leave I will immediately have to increase my retail prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK.
How long will it take for the UK to organise itself to arrange trade agreements with all the markets outside the Eu as well as the Eu itself? Who knows but don't expect it to be a quick and simple process. In the meantime my customer's will have to pay 10% more. Of course many will choose not to, and I will see a massive downturn in trade.

Of course Brexit will see a weakened puond which GOve and the others tell us will be good for exports. True I'm sure, but for a country that has such a large gap between the value of exports and what we import, is that not economic suicide?

So Brexiteers, get ready for an increase in the cost of living but at least you will have more low paid jobs available to you when all the Eu migrants currently filling those low paid roles decide to leave the UK.

How on earth can you justify saying you'll (quote) "immediately increase my prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK" when the process to leave the EU would take a number of years to implement on all sides?

The markets may vary (certainly initially) but you cannot guarantee at this point what will happen in the medium to long term, so your comments smack of (a) personal opinion, and (b) perhaps even personal gain on the back of a Brexit vote!

Either way fella, you are scare-mongering based on the same unsubstantiated figures and guesstimates as everyone else, i.e. supposition rather than fact!

I can say it because the goods I sell are made to order (not holding existing stock), thus any new sales made will be immediately subject to import. If we are no longer part of the Eu then the curret tarrif agreement with South Africa will not be valid. Import duty on the goods I sell is 8%. With an anticipayed currency fluctuation to deal with as well, my price list will need to increase by 10% at retail. It's simple - I will be paying around 10% more to import stock so that will go on the retail price. These are facts not supposition.

Great reply. And more than what the poster deserves. Wrapped up in his own self importance and self indulgence. Bigoted beyond the pale.

Before moving abroad to work (outside of the EU although - I am happy to pay my taxes on property income in the UK and my National insurance - even though I don't use the NHS) I worked a great deal on EU funded projects in Wales (probably over 400 businesses. I am still in touch with many of the businesses and people who worked on the projects and apart from a few most are overwhelmingly in favour of staying. They benefit from EU negotiated trade deals, the benefitted from EU grant money (when the central government would have let them fold), have benefitted from the Wales/EU innovation in technology projects (broadband Wales) and many benefit from European tourism. Like bluebird-77 they worry about an exit on a number of fronts... the economy will become more conservative (even if in the medium term, not long term, would be enough to see them go out of business) and they worry about having to fork out more money for imported materials and passing on the cost to consumers who may not be able to bear the increases. They also worry about losing part of their EU workforce who work very hard.

Good, reasoned response and I respect that

I think different businesses have differing points of view with regards to this, I am retired now, but spent many years as a business banking manager for one of our large high street banks. Many were bogged down and constantly complaining about EU red tape. These were mainly small businesses, and of the people I have kept in contact with since retiring, I would say they are evenly split between staying and leaving. As previously stated on here, it will be years before we leave if that is the outcome of the vote, and it has been said that it may take anywhere from 5 to 10 years to actually get out if that is what the people want. We could actually go through another two general elections before these EU formalities are completed. Being a shareholder in the bank I worked for, and a homeowner, you would expect me to be in the remain campaign. However, I feel it is worth us taking an initial backward step for the benefit of our long term future, which although I won't be around to see, my children and grandchildren will. I don't actually believe we will vote out, because people generally are wary of change, but things may have to change a little when it becomes obvious that millions of British people would prefer not to be part of the EU.

I run a small business and if we leave I will immediately have to increase my retail prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK.
How long will it take for the UK to organise itself to arrange trade agreements with all the markets outside the Eu as well as the Eu itself? Who knows but don't expect it to be a quick and simple process. In the meantime my customer's will have to pay 10% more. Of course many will choose not to, and I will see a massive downturn in trade.

Of course Brexit will see a weakened puond which GOve and the others tell us will be good for exports. True I'm sure, but for a country that has such a large gap between the value of exports and what we import, is that not economic suicide?

So Brexiteers, get ready for an increase in the cost of living but at least you will have more low paid jobs available to you when all the Eu migrants currently filling those low paid roles decide to leave the UK.

How on earth can you justify saying you'll (quote) "immediately increase my prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK" when the process to leave the EU would take a number of years to implement on all sides?

The markets may vary (certainly initially) but you cannot guarantee at this point what will happen in the medium to long term, so your comments smack of (a) personal opinion, and (b) perhaps even personal gain on the back of a Brexit vote!

Either way fella, you are scare-mongering based on the same unsubstantiated figures and guesstimates as everyone else, i.e. supposition rather than fact!

I can say it because the goods I sell are made to order (not holding existing stock), thus any new sales made will be immediately subject to import. If we are no longer part of the Eu then the curret tarrif agreement with South Africa will not be valid. Import duty on the goods I sell is 8%. With an anticipayed currency fluctuation to deal with as well, my price list will need to increase by 10% at retail. It's simple - I will be paying around 10% more to import stock so that will go on the retail price. These are facts not supposition.

Great reply. And more than what the poster deserves. Wrapped up in his own self importance and self indulgence. Bigoted beyond the pale.

Before moving abroad to work (outside of the EU although - I am happy to pay my taxes on property income in the UK and my National insurance - even though I don't use the NHS) I worked a great deal on EU funded projects in Wales (probably over 400 businesses. I am still in touch with many of the businesses and people who worked on the projects and apart from a few most are overwhelmingly in favour of staying. They benefit from EU negotiated trade deals, the benefitted from EU grant money (when the central government would have let them fold), have benefitted from the Wales/EU innovation in technology projects (broadband Wales) and many benefit from European tourism. Like bluebird-77 they worry about an exit on a number of fronts... the economy will become more conservative (even if in the medium term, not long term, would be enough to see them go out of business) and they worry about having to fork out more money for imported materials and passing on the cost to consumers who may not be able to bear the increases. They also worry about losing part of their EU workforce who work very hard.

Good, reasoned response and I respect that

I think different businesses have differing points of view with regards to this, I am retired now, but spent many years as a business banking manager for one of our large high street banks. Many were bogged down and constantly complaining about EU red tape. These were mainly small businesses, and of the people I have kept in contact with since retiring, I would say they are evenly split between staying and leaving. As previously stated on here, it will be years before we leave if that is the outcome of the vote, and it has been said that it may take anywhere from 5 to 10 years to actually get out if that is what the people want. We could actually go through another two general elections before these EU formalities are completed. Being a shareholder in the bank I worked for, and a homeowner, you would expect me to be in the remain campaign. However, I feel it is worth us taking an initial backward step for the benefit of our long term future, which although I won't be around to see, my children and grandchildren will. I don't actually believe we will vote out, because people generally are wary of change, but things may have to change a little when it becomes obvious that millions of British people would prefer not to be part of the EU.

Mark, I full understand and respect your comments and agree with your thoughts that the UK will err on the side of caution when they place their votes

I hope we are both wrong in that, but even if that is the case I hope the UK Government (which Cameron should step down from leading regardless of the result) listens to the message that has been sent out to them and it is worth noting that a majority of people questioned said they would not join the EU if there was a vote to do so right now

I feel strongly that the UK can do well standing on its own feet and I just feel that this will be our final opportunity to 'give it a go' before we become (maybe not in our lifetimes) a State rather than a country

I run a small business and if we leave I will immediately have to increase my retail prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK.
How long will it take for the UK to organise itself to arrange trade agreements with all the markets outside the Eu as well as the Eu itself? Who knows but don't expect it to be a quick and simple process. In the meantime my customer's will have to pay 10% more. Of course many will choose not to, and I will see a massive downturn in trade.

Of course Brexit will see a weakened puond which GOve and the others tell us will be good for exports. True I'm sure, but for a country that has such a large gap between the value of exports and what we import, is that not economic suicide?

So Brexiteers, get ready for an increase in the cost of living but at least you will have more low paid jobs available to you when all the Eu migrants currently filling those low paid roles decide to leave the UK.

How on earth can you justify saying you'll (quote) "immediately increase my prices by 10% to cover the hike in import duty I will have to pay for importing goods from a country outside the Eu that has a trade agreement with the Eu but no separate agreement with the UK" when the process to leave the EU would take a number of years to implement on all sides?

The markets may vary (certainly initially) but you cannot guarantee at this point what will happen in the medium to long term, so your comments smack of (a) personal opinion, and (b) perhaps even personal gain on the back of a Brexit vote!

Either way fella, you are scare-mongering based on the same unsubstantiated figures and guesstimates as everyone else, i.e. supposition rather than fact!

I can say it because the goods I sell are made to order (not holding existing stock), thus any new sales made will be immediately subject to import. If we are no longer part of the Eu then the curret tarrif agreement with South Africa will not be valid. Import duty on the goods I sell is 8%. With an anticipayed currency fluctuation to deal with as well, my price list will need to increase by 10% at retail. It's simple - I will be paying around 10% more to import stock so that will go on the retail price. These are facts not supposition.

Great reply. And more than what the poster deserves. Wrapped up in his own self importance and self indulgence. Bigoted beyond the pale.

Before moving abroad to work (outside of the EU although - I am happy to pay my taxes on property income in the UK and my National insurance - even though I don't use the NHS) I worked a great deal on EU funded projects in Wales (probably over 400 businesses. I am still in touch with many of the businesses and people who worked on the projects and apart from a few most are overwhelmingly in favour of staying. They benefit from EU negotiated trade deals, the benefitted from EU grant money (when the central government would have let them fold), have benefitted from the Wales/EU innovation in technology projects (broadband Wales) and many benefit from European tourism. Like bluebird-77 they worry about an exit on a number of fronts... the economy will become more conservative (even if in the medium term, not long term, would be enough to see them go out of business) and they worry about having to fork out more money for imported materials and passing on the cost to consumers who may not be able to bear the increases. They also worry about losing part of their EU workforce who work very hard.

Good, reasoned response and I respect that

I think different businesses have differing points of view with regards to this, I am retired now, but spent many years as a business banking manager for one of our large high street banks. Many were bogged down and constantly complaining about EU red tape. These were mainly small businesses, and of the people I have kept in contact with since retiring, I would say they are evenly split between staying and leaving. As previously stated on here, it will be years before we leave if that is the outcome of the vote, and it has been said that it may take anywhere from 5 to 10 years to actually get out if that is what the people want. We could actually go through another two general elections before these EU formalities are completed. Being a shareholder in the bank I worked for, and a homeowner, you would expect me to be in the remain campaign. However, I feel it is worth us taking an initial backward step for the benefit of our long term future, which although I won't be around to see, my children and grandchildren will. I don't actually believe we will vote out, because people generally are wary of change, but things may have to change a little when it becomes obvious that millions of British people would prefer not to be part of the EU.

Mark, I full understand and respect your comments and agree with your thoughts that the UK will err on the side of caution when they place their votes

I hope we are both wrong in that, but even if that is the case I hope the UK Government (which Cameron should step down from leading regardless of the result) listens to the message that has been sent out to them and it is worth noting that a majority of people questioned said they would not join the EU if there was a vote to do so right now

I feel strongly that the UK can do well standing on its own feet and I just feel that this will be our final opportunity to 'give it a go' before we become (maybe not in our lifetimes) a State rather than a country

Some great posts well written and make a lot of sense. Glad to see common sense coming through at last. And it now looks like I be backing the winner again. Knew I'd be right phew. Did look a bit close a few days back. Just have to wait to cash him.

Winner winner chicken dinner

Great debate.

A shame both the remain and leave campaign can't debate with the sam e respect.

I am definitely a remain person but respect people who make considered decisions (even if they are wrong )

And the sad truth is the country isn't ready for this decision yet. Example... How many PHD research papers have you seen which analyse the outcome of leave / remain...the sad truth is hardly any. That is just a refection of the lack of planning and immaturely of the whole process.

I see where you are coming from (and I'm certainly not putting down your business, which I hope is flourishing) and I apologise if I came across in a raised tone, but I think you miss the point of my question, i.e. that there will be a phased withdrawal period from EU membership, so if the vote goes that way so surely there will be no immediate need to increase any prices, as the current international tarrif agreements will stand for the foreseeable future (and maybe beyond) whilst?

The fluctuation in currency may have an effect but at this precise time we don't actually know what will happen in that sphere at this moment in time, hence the supposition comment, and on all sides the rhetoric coming out of the politicians is difficult to take as anything but loaded towards their person opinions/needs

Everyone has their own opinion, of course, but separating the truth from the fiction at the moment is difficult and even our PM is increasingly unsure of what he has said previously because it paints a potentially positive picture for the UK if it once again takes control of its own affairs/business

Personally, I will vote Brexit because I can see the future in an increasingly restraining EU and I'm not too sure it will end well. With that in mind, I think the UK is more than capable of holding its own in the world and the only way we'll find out is to give it a go. The 'positive' signs are already there if we look deeply enough and we also know that the people of other countries are/will be holding a watching brief with interest

Is Brexit a gamble? Of course it is, so the question is one of faith in our own people to do the business, so to speak, and I believe they can [/quote]

I see where you are coming from too and agree everyone has their own opinion of what could happen IF we opt out of Europe. My personal feeling is that the first thing that will happen is that Cameron will resign as PM. Now, while I am definitely not a fan of Cameron, who do you believe will replace him bearing in mind that the new PM will need to come from the Brexit camp? Here's a clue - it won't be Gove!!!!!
So that leaves BJ as the #1 man to negotiate our exit from the EU and to strike up new trade agreements with the Eu and other countries around the globe. Hmmmmm worried yet?
The Eu will take the UK leaving as a snub, and will I believe try to sever ties as quickly as possible. I do not believe this will take years to accomplish, they will want rid. Why would they then negotiate a good deal with the UK? You can't have your cake and eat it, in other words you can't have the benefits of being a member state if you are not a member state.

Because of this and the obvious currency slides we will see, I think that Brexit can only spell disaster for our economy.
It's not just me that thinks this. There are may far better informed and far more intelligent people and organisations that believe this to be true ...........
The governor of the bank of England
The IMF
Institute for fiscal studies
CBI
Director of the World Trade Organisation
and virtually all reputable economists.

Can they be wrong and Boris, Gove and the leaders of UKIP, BNP, Britain First and the EDL be right?

This is a small part of the argument and some of the reasons I will be voting remain, and encouraging every right minded free thinking individual to do the same.

Thanks for the opportunity to debate in a civilised manner chaps!

as a business owner in the travel sector who regularly works and requires suppliers in Poland, Spain, Finland, Italy, Greece, Slovenia and Hungary, Brexit would be disastrous on many fronts. Primarily VAT as we currently use a pan EU system to avoid having to pay in individual countries; you can imagine how chaotic that would be with 27 different rates. Additionally, the currency fluctuations caused by all the uncertainty has seen me lose a good deal of money compared to the rates we were getting this time last year - that's likely to remain the case for sometime should we vote out and certainly won't help anyone travelling in the EU but also further afield as some currencies are linked to the Euro.

On top of that, you will find that some countries may re-introduce travel restrictions on UK citizens and cut subsidies for UK businesses such as Easy Jet causing fares to rise and potential loss of routes which affects everyone in the long run
We should also remember that many of the EU directives are the only things that stop big business and government riding roughshod all over what remains of our countryside with fracking and bypassing planning and building regulations likely to become far more regular occurrences.

These are just the things that affect me personally in a business perspective, but there are of course many more. Does anyone really think Gove, Farrage, Johnson and the like have any interest in Wales? These are little Englanders who have managed to use the word scaremongering to cover just about every argument against staying in because they don't have any real answers to the questions posed to them. If we leave, I can see England under these odious extremists and chancers being the next country to demand a referendum to leave the UK and where would that leave us when they vote yes. Stay in and they are finished and we can get back to living in a pleasant country again where immigrants are not blamed for every last problem. No doubt immigration is an issue for the EU, but as the figures show net immigration is actually higher from outside the EU, how is it even an issue in this debate?

Great post I said the same when England realise what a cost wales is to them they drop us like we hot. You put it across much better than me. Unfortunately the brainwashing by leave has removed some people from they senses to the point they willing to destabilise the country over one flimsy immigration issue that won't change anyway.

Great post sir very well put.

If by some chance the UK votes out, we cannot leave until Cameron invokes article 50 of the EU treaty, and it would be two years after that at the very earliest that we are permitted to leave, but probably far longer. During this period, we continue to be subject to EU regulations, so whatever the outcome, we are not going to be suddenly free of the EU.

If by some chance the UK votes out, we cannot leave until Cameron invokes article 50 of the EU treaty, and it would be two years after that at the very earliest that we are permitted to leave, but probably far longer. During this period, we continue to be subject to EU regulations, so whatever the outcome, we are not going to be suddenly free of the EU.

Didn't he say if we vote leave it be invoked straight away??

If by some chance the UK votes out, we cannot leave until Cameron invokes article 50 of the EU treaty, and it would be two years after that at the very earliest that we are permitted to leave, but probably far longer. During this period, we continue to be subject to EU regulations, so whatever the outcome, we are not going to be suddenly free of the EU.

Didn't he say if we vote leave it be invoked straight away??

If he invokes it Monday, it is at least two years after that before we can leave. That is part of EU legislation, in effect we have to give two years notice to leave to re-negotiate trade deals etc.

If by some chance the UK votes out, we cannot leave until Cameron invokes article 50 of the EU treaty, and it would be two years after that at the very earliest that we are permitted to leave, but probably far longer. During this period, we continue to be subject to EU regulations, so whatever the outcome, we are not going to be suddenly free of the EU.

Didn't he say if we vote leave it be invoked straight away??

If he invokes it Monday, it is at least two years after that before we can leave. That is part of EU legislation, in effect we have to give two years notice to leave to re-negotiate trade deals etc.

Why don't the leave campaign use this to they favour more. Would be of comfort to many knowing there's a 2 year buffer to re negotiate deals. Think if they pushed this fact then they get a lot more support. One thing leave have lacked and I believe has lost them a lot of support is that they haven't been able to say what will happen and have very little in terms of facts to help them out. This would have gone a long way to gain supported. It's now made me think about voting. And voting to leave with this buffer there.

But having watched some of the big debate they just not convincing me. They needed gove there in this one I think.

If by some chance the UK votes out, we cannot leave until Cameron invokes article 50 of the EU treaty, and it would be two years after that at the very earliest that we are permitted to leave, but probably far longer. During this period, we continue to be subject to EU regulations, so whatever the outcome, we are not going to be suddenly free of the EU.

Didn't he say if we vote leave it be invoked straight away??

If he invokes it Monday, it is at least two years after that before we can leave. That is part of EU legislation, in effect we have to give two years notice to leave to re-negotiate trade deals etc.

Why don't the leave campaign use this to they favour more. Would be of comfort to many knowing there's a 2 year buffer to re negotiate deals. Think if they pushed this fact then they get a lot more support. One thing leave have lacked and I believe has lost them a lot of support is that they haven't been able to say what will happen and have very little in terms of facts to help them out. This would have gone a long way to gain supported. It's now made me think about voting. And voting to leave with this buffer there.

But having watched some of the big debate they just not convincing me. They needed gove there in this one I think.

Leave missed a few tricks tonight. They were asked to name one country who has said they will trade with us if we leave. I am surprised they did'nt reply with asking the remain camp to name one country who have said they won't trade with us.

I'm guessing it can't happen now. But what I think would be best is to postpone this for 6-12 months and both sides do some proper research and come up with legitimate reasons for leave or stay. Not this messy mud throwing mess. It seems to be one big rushed mess. And don't have Cameron leading it he's busy enough running the country as it is. And that's where we need his 100% focus.

I'm guessing it can't happen now. But what I think would be best is to postpone this for 6-12 months and both sides do some proper research and come up with legitimate reasons for leave or stay. Not this messy mud throwing mess. It seems to be one big rushed mess. And don't have Cameron leading it he's busy enough running the country as it is. And that's where we need his 100% focus.

When politicians can't make their minds up and jump from one camp to the next, how are we supposed to have enough knowledge to make a decision on something as important as this. The only true fact is that we don't know what will happen if we leave, and we can't be certain of what happens long term if we stay. Nobody knows the future, and our politicians have a history of getting their forecasts wrong, and not living up to their pledges.