" LIVERPOOL SUPPORTERS WERE NOT INNOCENT SAYS '

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Hillsborough chief inspector claims inquest was WRONG and fans 'weren't completely innocent'

Monday 2nd May 2016

BY JOHN KELLY

David Sumner says Liverpool fans should have been in the stands at 2.45pm like Nottingham Forest supporters



ITV News

David Sumner, the former chief inspector of South Yorkshire Police, has said he disagrees with the findings of the Hillsborough inquestDavid Sumner, the former chief inspector of South Yorkshire Police, has said he disagrees with the findings of the Hillsborough inquest

A retired police chief inspector who was at the 1989 Hillsborough disaster claims this week’s inquest verdicts exonerating fans are wrong.

David Sumner says Liverpool fans “weren’t completely innocent” and claimed they should have been in the stands at 2.45pm like Nottingham Forest supporter.

In an astonishing interview, the former chief inspector - now a representative of the National Association of Retired Police Officers (NARPO) - completely contradicts the conclusions of the jury.

He says the behaviour of fans drinking and arriving late at the ground did contribute to what happened and the jury - which listened to two years of evidence - had made an error.


He said: “All juries don’t get it right and I don’t think they have it right.

“The other one I don’t really agree with is that the Liverpool supporters were completely innocent because they weren’t - there’s no doubt about it.


“There was a minority - and a large number in that minority - who seem to be able to think they can go when they like and do what they like.”

Mr Sumner said fans of Liverpool’s FA Cup semi-final opponents Nottingham Forest were in the ground on time by 2.45pm on the day of the tragedy while - at 2.50pm - there were still dozens of supporters entering the ground towards the Liverpool supporters’ turnstiles.


Everton players wearing shirts to commemorate the Hillsborough disaster victims

He told ITV Calendar News in Yorkshire it could have contributed to the disaster.

He added: “They’ve all been asked to be in the ground 15 minutes before kick-off at the very latest. Why didn’t they do that?”

He also maintained police have never tried to “blame the deceased for their own demise”, saying that they have always had sympathy with the victims’ families.

Yet he still voiced sympathy for David Duckenfield, the police chief responsible for opening the gates that led to the disaster and who could be facing criminal charges after the jury found the fans were unlawfully killed.

He said: “I do feel sorry for David and his family.”

Julian Hamilton/Daily MirrorDavid DuckenfieldMr Sumner has voiced sympathy for David Duckenfield
“Someone should have been telling him - if it was people on the ground - they ought to have been saying ‘there’s a gate here, we can close it. Nothing was said until it was too late.”

Mr Sumner was blasted on social media for his comments.

Clare Hannah said: “Just watching that former SYP officer David Sumner on the news. Unbelievable...just unbelievable.”

Tom Howarth added: “What chance have we got if police officers don’t believe in the legal/justice system.


“David Sumner should hang his head in shame.”

There was no response at David Sumner’s stone-front detached home with an immaculate, well-manicured garden in the small cul-de-sac near Sheffield, South Yorks.

His next-door neighbour said: “His wife died a couple of weeks ago and he doesn’t spend that much time in the house anymore.

“He spends most of his time at his son’s or daughter’s house nowadays.”

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A tragic day, but surely now that the inquest is over, let the victims rest in peace, the nation doesn't need daily updated anymore in my opinion.

May 11th is the anniversary on the Fire at Valley parade in which 56 fans never came home from football, let's see if that gets a mention this year.

A tragic day, but surely now that the inquest is over, let the victims rest in peace, the nation doesn't need daily updated anymore in my opinion.

May 11th is the anniversary on the Fire at Valley parade in which 56 fans never came home from football, let's see if that gets a mention this year.

Well said. Wonder if Heysel will get a mention as well.

A tragic day, but surely now that the inquest is over, let the victims rest in peace, the nation doesn't need daily updated anymore in my opinion.

May 11th is the anniversary on the Fire at Valley parade in which 56 fans never came home from football, let's see if that gets a mention this year.

Well Said Gavin

Incredible.

It was unlawful killing, end of. Well I say end of, really it won't be the end until those at South Yorkshire Police are held to account and there are criminal prosecutions.

Tend to agree with him.

An extreme view of those comments are the Liverpool supporters deserve a death sentence for being 15 minutes late

These comments add nothing as I'm sure they would have been aired at the inquest where a jury returned a verdict that they were unlawfully killed.

The Police had a duty to ensure the semi-final took place and was a safe place for all of those who attended.

The fences surrounding the pitch didn't grow whilst the Police commander David Duckenfield's back was turned and common sense tell him NOT TO OPEN THE GATES. Buck stops with him.

With comments like these it appears now there is an attempt to shift the blame onto someone else.

A tragic day, but surely now that the inquest is over, let the victims rest in peace, the nation doesn't need daily updated anymore in my opinion.

May 11th is the anniversary on the Fire at Valley parade in which 56 fans never came home from football, let's see if that gets a mention this year.

Good post. Apparently the Police were hero's at Valley Parade hard to believe it's the same Police Force.

http://youtu.be/sdfcxGKIyog

Watch this documentary from ESPN

A tragic day, but surely now that the inquest is over, let the victims rest in peace, the nation doesn't need daily updated anymore in my opinion.

May 11th is the anniversary on the Fire at Valley parade in which 56 fans never came home from football, let's see if that gets a mention this year.

Well Said Gavin

It does need to get brought up over and over because the Police lied and prevented the course of justice.

A tragic day, but surely now that the inquest is over, let the victims rest in peace, the nation doesn't need daily updated anymore in my opinion.

May 11th is the anniversary on the Fire at Valley parade in which 56 fans never came home from football, let's see if that gets a mention this year.

Good post. Apparently the Police were hero's at Valley Parade hard to believe it's the same Police Force.

Different police force, West Yorks police for Bradford.

Of course the fans contributed. There were thousands that shouldn't have been there without tickets.

I'm sorry the fans are not to blame most fans at Cardiff do not arrive until 5 minutes before kick off, many turn up without tickets however they screwed up the police failed as all they had to do was delay the kick off and then this would have all been sorted without 96 innocent supporters losing their lives.

Yorkshire police are scum only look at the same bunch attacking Minors on strike and the cover up there they blamed minors the press did except now they been found out and deserve to be jailed bad enough they made mistakes its the cover up and trying to blame innocent supporters is the reason they should be jailed

In my opinion, if they turn up late, it shouldn't be the job of the police to rush them in! Get them in as quickly as possible, ye, but if the quickest you can safely do it means they miss kick off then its their fault! By rushing them in, its the police's fault

I'm sorry the fans are not to blame most fans at Cardiff do not arrive until 5 minutes before kick off, many turn up without tickets however they screwed up the police failed as all they had to do was delay the kick off and then this would have all been sorted without 96 innocent supporters losing their lives.

Yorkshire police are scum only look at the same bunch attacking Minors on strike and the cover up there they blamed minors the press did except now they been found out and deserve to be jailed bad enough they made mistakes its the cover up and trying to blame innocent supporters is the reason they should be jailed

What about those without tickets? Did that not Contribute to the crush by there being too many people there

A tragic day, but surely now that the inquest is over, let the victims rest in peace, the nation doesn't need daily updated anymore in my opinion.

May 11th is the anniversary on the Fire at Valley parade in which 56 fans never came home from football, let's see if that gets a mention this year.

Good post. Apparently the Police were hero's at Valley Parade hard to believe it's the same Police Force.

Different police force, West Yorks police for Bradford.

That explains it

I'm sorry the fans are not to blame most fans at Cardiff do not arrive until 5 minutes before kick off, many turn up without tickets however they screwed up the police failed as all they had to do was delay the kick off and then this would have all been sorted without 96 innocent supporters losing their lives.

Yorkshire police are scum only look at the same bunch attacking Minors on strike and the cover up there they blamed minors the press did except now they been found out and deserve to be jailed bad enough they made mistakes its the cover up and trying to blame innocent supporters is the reason they should be jailed

What about those without tickets? Did that not Contribute to the crush by there being too many people there

Correct without those ticketless fans there would-not have been a problem in the first place.

However, the Police are there to manage crowd control and had plenty of tools including CCTV. Those outside had no idea of what was happening inside but the Police would have due to numbers on the ground and CCTV. It was clear incompetence to open the gates knowing the ground was surrounded by fencing and therefore no natural escape route which was bound to end in injuries and deaths.

Whatever the mitigating circumstances the Police failed abysmally to deal with the situation and as professionals they have to hold responsibility.

Further the ticketless fans cannot in any way be held responsible for the criminal conduct in trying to cover up the evidence for the past 27 years

Disgraceful comments from a retired scumbag who is urinating on the graves of the innocent, unlawfully killed men, women and children.

Crass stupidity matched only by a bigoted view of football fans.

He should be made to retract his vile comments and if he doesn't agree with due process, then shouldn't have his police pension as he is bringing the force into disrepute.

Of course the fans contributed. There were thousands that shouldn't have been there without tickets.

Says who? The police.

These arguments can and probably will go on for ever.
Football is in a different era and its unlikely something like this would happen again.
It was a sequence of events which led to the disastrous outcome,hopefully lessons have been learned preventing an incident similar from happening again.

I'm sorry the fans are not to blame most fans at Cardiff do not arrive until 5 minutes before kick off, many turn up without tickets however they screwed up the police failed as all they had to do was delay the kick off and then this would have all been sorted without 96 innocent supporters losing their lives.

Yorkshire police are scum only look at the same bunch attacking Minors on strike and the cover up there they blamed minors the press did except now they been found out and deserve to be jailed bad enough they made mistakes its the cover up and trying to blame innocent supporters is the reason they should be jailed

What about those without tickets? Did that not Contribute to the crush by there being too many people there

Correct without those ticketless fans there would-not have been a problem in the first place.

However, the Police are there to manage crowd control and had plenty of tools including CCTV. Those outside had no idea of what was happening inside but the Police would have due to numbers on the ground and CCTV. It was clear incompetence to open the gates knowing the ground was surrounded by fencing and therefore no natural escape route which was bound to end in injuries and deaths.

Whatever the mitigating circumstances the Police failed abysmally to deal with the situation and as professionals they have to hold responsibility.

Further the ticketless fans cannot in any way be held responsible for the criminal conduct in trying to cover up the evidence for the past 27 years

I totally agree with the management and cover up. But to say they played absolutely no part in it I don't understand

I see his point it was a terrible. I think all those fans/killers who went without tickets should also be held for unlawful killings. So many people at fault that day. And hardly any if any will get punished.

Of course the fans contributed. There were thousands that shouldn't have been there without tickets.

Says who? The police.

How about the two Liverpool fans who gave a live interview to the bbc during the disaster explaining how Liverpool fans/killers got in with out tickets.

RIP the 96 innocent victims and the horrific police cover up that followed it is beyond disgusting. The stories of parents not being allowed to see their dead children as they were the 'property' of the South Yorks police are barbaric. The dad wrapped in a bin liner - those who were guilty of the cover up should face the proper justice denied to the victims

It should be noted these were different times + fans behaved differently - there were certainly pack mentalities and certain clubs - Cardiff, Millwall, West Ham, Man Utd, Liverpool, Birmingham, Stoke, Chelsea - you knew by going to these places or when the clubs came to your ground that there was an increased likelihood of some kind of trouble (Man Utd and Liverpool obviously never came near us for a long long time because of how rubbish we were) but you knew you had to have your wits about with their fans

To say Liverpool fans were completely innocent that day - the courts have now said they were so that is the fact

Is it now a complete no-no to question Liverpool fans over their past behaviour and this muppet isn't going to achieve anything but upsetting the families of the victims - perhaps its best left to their fans to criticise their past behaviour

http://onthekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=4112.50

Their fans here openly talk about ticketless fans at Istanbul and Athens in European games storming gates to get in - its a taboo subject that doesn't get talked about - some of them brag about it

this is a quote from one of their 'fans' -
'And believe me, Athens was ONE f*cking inch from being Heysel Number 2. And even worse for you would've been the notion that the recipients this time wouldve been those joyful Scalls... not some lowlife Italian prats.'

I don't like Liverpool fans however I feel nothing but sympathy for the victims of Hillsborough- I have no love however for that club - perhaps its my Italian heritage and growing up loving Juventus, Paulo Rossi, Conti, Tardelli, Zoff, Baresi et al.

Of course the fans contributed. There were thousands that shouldn't have been there without tickets.

Says who? The police.

How about the two Liverpool fans who gave a live interview to the bbc during the disaster explaining how Liverpool fans/killers got in with out tickets.

Thank you

I see his point it was a terrible. I think all those fans/killers who went without tickets should also be held for unlawful killings. So many people at fault that day. And hardly any if any will get punished.

Total bollocks. It was the police and crowd control. Also, if football fans throughout the land in 80's were better behaved then there would have been no fences.

I see his point it was a terrible. I think all those fans/killers who went without tickets should also be held for unlawful killings. So many people at fault that day. And hardly any if any will get punished.

Total bollocks. It was the police and crowd control. Also, if football fans throughout the land in 80's were better behaved then there would have been no fences.

I couldn't agree more Blue Lagoon and the Jury at the inquest also agreed.

To describe Liverpool fans as "killers" is nothing short of despicable.

I don't like Liverpool fans however I feel nothing but sympathy for the victims of Hillsborough- I have no love however for that club - perhaps its my Italian heritage and growing up loving Juventus, Paulo Rossi, Conti, Tardelli, Zoff, Baresi et al.

I feel exactly the same. I have absolutely no love for Liverpool FC but I have every sympathy with the Hillsborough victims. I also have deep sympathy for Juventus fans killed at the Heysel Stadium disaster.

Unfortunately that disaster quite rightly left Liverpool fans with a huge credibility problem which went on to play apart at Hillsborough.

When the Sun and Police smeared the fans in the aftermath it was easy for the shit to stick due to what had happened 4 years earlier.

As a Cardiff City fan from north Wales since watching Peter Sayer scoring against Spurs on Match of Day, and being blown away by the classic twin stripe blue and yellow kit..and being 7 and only knowing that Cardiff was in Wales and not how far away it actually was..I only managed to see the occasional away game whilst growing up, and coming from a family of Liverpool supporters I grew up watching Liverpool with parents. Now to my point..
I have been reading on here some utter shite by ignorant people who were not at Hillsborough or in the Leppings Lane that fatal day like I was with my dad and cousin. .. The so called ticketless fans had no choice but to enter the ground as once the police opened the gates...everybody with in the area of the entrance was forced into the ground by police on horses whether they had tickets or not. ..There was no drinking outside the ground the reason for late arrival of fans was due to major roadworks onM62 it took us over 4 hours to travel from Rhyl .. A journey that should take roughly 2hrs 30 max.. For 27 years I have had to listen to shit from people who think they know what happened but haven't a clue. The truth is out so shut the fu@k you weren't there..We have always known it has been a cover up. Certain guys on here make me ashamed to follow cardiff...

As a Cardiff City fan from north Wales since watching Peter Sayer scoring against Spurs on Match of Day, and being blown away by the classic twin stripe blue and yellow kit..and being 7 and only knowing that Cardiff was in Wales and not how far away it actually was..I only managed to see the occasional away game whilst growing up, and coming from a family of Liverpool supporters I grew up watching Liverpool with parents. Now to my point..
I have been reading on here some utter shite by ignorant people who were not at Hillsborough or in the Leppings Lane that fatal day like I was with my dad and cousin. .. The so called ticketless fans had no choice but to enter the ground as once the police opened the gates...everybody with in the area of the entrance was forced into the ground by police on horses whether they had tickets or not. ..There was no drinking outside the ground the reason for late arrival of fans was due to major roadworks onM62 it took us over 4 hours to travel from Rhyl .. A journey that should take roughly 2hrs 30 max.. For 27 years I have had to listen to shit from people who think they know what happened but haven't a clue. The truth is out so shut the fu@k you weren't there..We have always known it has been a cover up. Certain guys on here make me ashamed to follow cardiff...

Some good points there and many who comment (like in so many other areas) are commenting out what they think rather than what they know

The loss of any life at a football match is wholly unnecessary and in this (and other) cases it was catastrophic for the attending fans and their families and the failing authorities are rightly being brought to book

I have one respectful question though, if you are a Liverpool fan and were there: Why were so many ticketless Liverpool fans outside the ground and what were they hoping to achieve?

Seems a common theme amongst that club's supporters at every major event with which they are involved. Often reported (many are happy to take the tickets of opposing supporters, which is an issue in itself) and certainly witnessed when we played them at Wembley a couple of seasons ago