' Problem solved...return to blue.? '

Well anyone thinking this at the time were a bit naive if you ask me. To me what it did was prevent a total collapse of the support.




Lifelong Cardiff City fan Gareth Rogers reflects on a momentous moment one year ago that failed to turn Cardiff City around.


Sunday 10th Jan 2016

A year ago I honestly believed I was going back to being the Cardiff City diehard I used to be.

But even though my club is back in blue and wearing the bluebird on it's badge, I still can't put my finger on why I still feel such apathy. In fact, some weeks I dread Saturday and try to find an excuse not to go to watch Cardiff City.

On January 10, 2015, I was so swept up in the furore of the “biggest victory the Bluebirds fans had ever enjoyed,” I dragged my daughter to Cardiff City Stadium, hoping she'd one day be telling her children and grandchildren about it. But to be honest, that's unlikely.

I admit it, I thought that the return to blue would reignite my suffering club and I wanted to be part of it. I genuinely believed that once I saw the Bluebirds back in blue at home everything would be OK. Poor Fulham, I thought, Cardiff City are back!

But even though more than 22,500 excited fans turned up that day, I suspect few of them can recall much about it now, except for the freezing conditions and the dire football on show.

Yes, in the moments leading up to kick-off, we all revelled in our “fans' victory” but other than that, I doubt it's one I'll be telling my grandchildren about.

Cardiff even won the game, thanks to Sean Morrison bundling Aron Gunnarsson's long throw into the Fulham net. A fitting way to win, maybe, but not as fitting as the fact I had to rely on Google to recall those details.

What I do remember is concerning myself with the standard of football, the empty red stand and my freezing toddler, rather than lapping up every historic moment.

Why? Because I wanted to distract myself from the fact that I wasn't enjoying the day half as much as I'd hoped.

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Ian, I thought returning to Blue, would bring back the thousands, I was wrong.

So in my opinion the damage had already been done and if you keep hurting people,laughing at people,stripping them of their desire/passion,some will forgive, some will forgive in time and some will never forgive.

It will take a long long time to ever get the feeling back and for some that might never happen again as people move on and find other things to do in life.

Plus the the Red Glory hunting Brigade wildly return when the Glory returns.

I can relate to a lot in this post. This is the first year in 20 years I have not bought a season ticket. Not sure what it is but I don't enjoy going as much as I used too. It could be just getting old. Having more priorities in family life. Realising football is not everything I really don't know.

I still go to games. Not all of them but again the match experience has long gone. No banter with away fans. This is another step that needs resolving. City fans are no longer the crazy bloody thirsty lunatics. If we placed next to away fans it would not kick off like it would in the past. Match experience needs improving.

Another factor is price and this has to be targeted at new season ticket holder next year. In the same way Bradford City do it. The one off game for 10 quid is not working. However dirt cheap season tickets will be snapped up.

Sad times as a city fan for me personally. I will always support city but as I have said a few times on here previously. The passion is not what it was.

Bluebirds

Ian, I thought returning to Blue, would bring back the thousands, I was wrong.

So in my opinion the damage had already been done and if you keep hurting people,laughing at people,stripping them of their desire/passion,some will forgive, some will forgive in time and some will never forgive.

It will take a long long time to ever get the feeling back and for some that might never happen again as people move on and find other things to do in life.

Plus the the Red Glory hunting Brigade wildly return when the Glory returns.

I never thought it would make a difference, a quick glance at our promotion winning team in red whatever type of fan you want to label them is enough evidence. Many will disagree because they want everything perfect, unfortunately that's not reality but the dismantling of the over paid squad, the more sensible approach to finances of the club are being addressed and while Slade is not the man to take us forward he has held it together and I believe come the end of his tenure in the summer he will leave a reasonable team with a decent age balance for his successor ( Bellamy ) to add to and take things forward.

A lot still have the premiership hangover and was a big hangover for us because unlike most teams he get there and drop out we have been to hell and back and waited an eternity.

Fans will return, the fan base is there they just can't be bothered right now but a new exciting team and success would see the flooding back. It will happen, when is the big question.

Have to agree with original post, the apathy and looking forward not to going to watch Cardiff City these days at home is sadly common place.

I am approaching my 50th year of following City, I used to travel away , never miss a home game, got caught up in the debacle of what I genuinely thought was "A seat for life" in the Premier club - with the primary reason of taking advantage of ease of obtaining tickets for how and away games - (rather than being a plastic glory hunter as some might say..Lol) but even that turned out to be another reason to be stiffed by the club and a vastly underwhelming experience.

These days I still have a season ticket and rarely travel away. I have missed several home games this season for various reasons including the dire football and many of the friends that used to go, are slowly dropping off,- looking for any excuse not to attend and the social side of a football day is no longer the attraction it was.

I had thought at one time, that approaching 50 years would be something to celebrate, but to be honest I can't be bothered at the moment. I will continue to attend games and will always support my home town club, but sadly for me the love affair is coming to an end.

The damage done took a while to digest.
The higher debt, no training ground, Russell appointment, stadium experience could all have been handled better to coincide with the blue return.
The players can feel the apathy and dead soul in the ground and that kills confidence in passing, attacking and going that extra yard.

Who wants to be the player who has a go only to here a general groan throughout the crowd?

There is no magic answer it needs building. Tan has a key but he's just picked up us as a toy, shook us around a bit and thrown us in a corner.

Slade can't even give straight answer in an interview for players staying, leaving, coming, as is hands are tied. We need a leader to galvanise, either in Owner, manager or player.

Sadly we have nothing.

I believe the only man committed to Cardiff ironically is Slade!
Sadly not dynamic enough to lead

His football arguably better than Malky (without backing Malky had) yet Malky we could follow......

Ian, I thought returning to Blue, would bring back the thousands, I was wrong.

So in my opinion the damage had already been done and if you keep hurting people,laughing at people,stripping them of their desire/passion,some will forgive, some will forgive in time and some will never forgive.

It will take a long long time to ever get the feeling back and for some that might never happen again as people move on and find other things to do in life.

Plus the the Red Glory hunting Brigade wildly return when the Glory returns.

Annis, EVERY team that gets promoted to the premiership takes glory hunters with them, in fact if/when we get back there we will actually need them to fill the stadium, but as i've stated before the loyal fans who go what ever division we are in should get absolute priority with anything to do with the club.

Well anyone thinking this at the time were a bit naive if you ask me. To me what it did was prevent a total collapse of the support.




Lifelong Cardiff City fan Gareth Rogers reflects on a momentous moment one year ago that failed to turn Cardiff City around.


Sunday 10th Jan 2016

A year ago I honestly believed I was going back to being the Cardiff City diehard I used to be.

But even though my club is back in blue and wearing the bluebird on it's badge, I still can't put my finger on why I still feel such apathy. In fact, some weeks I dread Saturday and try to find an excuse not to go to watch Cardiff City.

On January 10, 2015, I was so swept up in the furore of the “biggest victory the Bluebirds fans had ever enjoyed,” I dragged my daughter to Cardiff City Stadium, hoping she'd one day be telling her children and grandchildren about it. But to be honest, that's unlikely.

I admit it, I thought that the return to blue would reignite my suffering club and I wanted to be part of it. I genuinely believed that once I saw the Bluebirds back in blue at home everything would be OK. Poor Fulham, I thought, Cardiff City are back!

But even though more than 22,500 excited fans turned up that day, I suspect few of them can recall much about it now, except for the freezing conditions and the dire football on show.

Yes, in the moments leading up to kick-off, we all revelled in our “fans' victory” but other than that, I doubt it's one I'll be telling my grandchildren about.

Cardiff even won the game, thanks to Sean Morrison bundling Aron Gunnarsson's long throw into the Fulham net. A fitting way to win, maybe, but not as fitting as the fact I had to rely on Google to recall those details.

What I do remember is concerning myself with the standard of football, the empty red stand and my freezing toddler, rather than lapping up every historic moment.

Why? Because I wanted to distract myself from the fact that I wasn't enjoying the day half as much as I'd hoped.

At the " reversal of rebrand" meeting I believe the only people there who claimed that "20,000" fans would return every week as soon as the return to blue happened were Sian and Gwyn. Lots of others spoke privately to the Chairman and CEO both before and after the meeting ( the meeting itself had to be non-critical to enable Vincent Tan to save "face " in making the reversal decision) to point out that the reversal decision would stop the club from totally collapsing in on itself, but that it would take a lot of effort and a long time to repair the damage caused by the rebrand.

If a return to blue co-incided with a sustained promotion push the crowds would be back no problems.

Ian, I thought returning to Blue, would bring back the thousands, I was wrong.

So in my opinion the damage had already been done and if you keep hurting people,laughing at people,stripping them of their desire/passion,some will forgive, some will forgive in time and some will never forgive.

It will take a long long time to ever get the feeling back and for some that might never happen again as people move on and find other things to do in life.

Plus the the Red Glory hunting Brigade wildly return when the Glory returns.

I never thought it would make a difference, a quick glance at our promotion winning team in red whatever type of fan you want to label them is enough evidence. Many will disagree because they want everything perfect, unfortunately that's not reality but the dismantling of the over paid squad, the more sensible approach to finances of the club are being addressed and while Slade is not the man to take us forward he has held it together and I believe come the end of his tenure in the summer he will leave a reasonable team with a decent age balance for his successor ( Bellamy ) to add to and take things forward.

A lot still have the premiership hangover and was a big hangover for us because unlike most teams he get there and drop out we have been to hell and back and waited an eternity.

Fans will return, the fan base is there they just can't be bothered right now but a new exciting team and success would see the flooding back. It will happen, when is the big question.

Gareth, Glory hunters will return for Glory thats Guaranteed.
But we need the hardcore fans to return. I spoke to TLG aka Dave Sugarman and after nearly 40 years of supporting City, due to the Rebrand and he stated Tans name, he has moved on and found new things to do.

I look around me at away games and many many old faces are now no longer going and that hurts and they were the passionate ones.

We also need, well the club needs to encourage new fans to come along, the kids,cheap,cheap prices.

Ian, I thought returning to Blue, would bring back the thousands, I was wrong.

So in my opinion the damage had already been done and if you keep hurting people,laughing at people,stripping them of their desire/passion,some will forgive, some will forgive in time and some will never forgive.

It will take a long long time to ever get the feeling back and for some that might never happen again as people move on and find other things to do in life.

Plus the the Red Glory hunting Brigade wildly return when the Glory returns.

Annis, EVERY team that gets promoted to the premiership takes glory hunters with them, in fact if/when we get back there we will actually need them to fill the stadium, but as i've stated before the loyal fans who go what ever division we are in should get absolute priority with anything to do with the club.

Paul, I agree every club has them, but our fan base dissapeared beyond belief, with in just over a year 15,000 fans were lost as crowds of 27,500 went down to as low as 12,500 and that for me is a major worry.

Also the club forgets every time to look after the diehards,they get carried away when were doing well and never have plan B, if all goes wrong.

You have to ask just how much does the 'blue' factor matter when compared to the 'success' factor?

Fact is we consistently played in front of our highest average crowds whilst playing in red. Since relegation the crowds have plummeted and a reversal to blue proved to be a red herring as the crowds continue to fall.

That fact is the fans 'victory' only happened because we were relegated from the Premier League and then made a complete hash of our first attempt to get back.

I'm torn because I'm delighted to be back in blue but it has come at a terrible price as the club seems to be falling apart.

What is needed is for the blame game to stop. Tan made a mistake one which has cost him millions of pounds but hounding the guy for evermore will achieve nothing but more discord at CCFC. Time to put the nonsense behind us and start pushing the club forward.

Ian, I thought returning to Blue, would bring back the thousands, I was wrong.

So in my opinion the damage had already been done and if you keep hurting people,laughing at people,stripping them of their desire/passion,some will forgive, some will forgive in time and some will never forgive.

It will take a long long time to ever get the feeling back and for some that might never happen again as people move on and find other things to do in life.

Plus the the Red Glory hunting Brigade wildly return when the Glory returns.

I never thought it would make a difference, a quick glance at our promotion winning team in red whatever type of fan you want to label them is enough evidence. Many will disagree because they want everything perfect, unfortunately that's not reality but the dismantling of the over paid squad, the more sensible approach to finances of the club are being addressed and while Slade is not the man to take us forward he has held it together and I believe come the end of his tenure in the summer he will leave a reasonable team with a decent age balance for his successor ( Bellamy ) to add to and take things forward.

A lot still have the premiership hangover and was a big hangover for us because unlike most teams he get there and drop out we have been to hell and back and waited an eternity.

Fans will return, the fan base is there they just can't be bothered right now but a new exciting team and success would see the flooding back. It will happen, when is the big question.

Gareth, Glory hunters will return for Glory thats Guaranteed.
But we need the hardcore fans to return. I spoke to TLG aka Dave Sugarman and after nearly 40 years of supporting City, due to the Rebrand and he stated Tans name, he has moved on and found new things to do.

I look around me at away games and many many old faces are now no longer going and that hurts and they were the passionate ones.

We also need, well the club needs to encourage new fans to come along, the kids,cheap,cheap prices.

That is true Annis but Dave stopped going as soon as the rebrand occurred so is not relevant to this debate really. The relevance is on those 8500+ fans who came when we were red last time we were in the championship (under Tan) and 15000 fans who have gone since we were relegated. That is success related and only success will bring them back.

If a return to blue co-incided with a sustained promotion push the crowds would be back no problems.

Neil, Glory hunters will return every time with a successful team.

I don't mean to be funny to you,but you are still not grasping the problem as you don't go. I see week in week out at away games, many many old faces missing and when I bump in to away from football they explain the club pushed and hurt them to far and they are the fans we need.

When I go to places like Boro nowadays we take about 80 odd fans on a Tuesday night, we used to take 250 on a Tuesday night there. WE have now got one of the worst away followings in the Championship.
City were always known for their great away support no matter what. 70'S/80'S/90'S and up to a few yrs ago.
Even at Burnley to go up to the Prem we only took 1,500 and you could pay on the day(2,500 tickets were available).

You have to ask just how much does the 'blue' factor matter when compared to the 'success' factor?

Fact is we consistently played in front of our highest average crowds whilst playing in red. Since relegation the crowds have plummeted and a reversal to blue proved to be a red herring as the crowds continue to fall.

That fact is the fans 'victory' only happened because we were relegated from the Premier League and then made a complete hash of our first attempt to get back.

I'm torn because I'm delighted to be back in blue but it has come at a terrible price as the club seems to be falling apart.

What is needed is for the blame game to stop. Tan made a mistake one which has cost him millions of pounds but hounding the guy for evermore will achieve nothing but more discord at CCFC. Time to put the nonsense behind us and start pushing the club forward.

Fair words Tony. Far too sensible.

You have to ask just how much does the 'blue' factor matter when compared to the 'success' factor?

Fact is we consistently played in front of our highest average crowds whilst playing in red. Since relegation the crowds have plummeted and a reversal to blue proved to be a red herring as the crowds continue to fall.

That fact is the fans 'victory' only happened because we were relegated from the Premier League and then made a complete hash of our first attempt to get back.

I'm torn because I'm delighted to be back in blue but it has come at a terrible price as the club seems to be falling apart.

What is needed is for the blame game to stop. Tan made a mistake one which has cost him millions of pounds but hounding the guy for evermore will achieve nothing but more discord at CCFC. Time to put the nonsense behind us and start pushing the club forward.

Tony, I agree with everything until your last lines.
Tan has to take all the blame and he laughed in our faces and for me I will never ever forgive him, but I still go as I support Cardiff City,but for some he pushed them to far and thats how they feel.
Tan does not want to be at our club and wants out ASAP, I guarantee you that.
Tan has lost total interest in his toy.

If a return to blue co-incided with a sustained promotion push the crowds would be back no problems.

Neil, Glory hunters will return every time with a successful team.

I don't mean to be funny to you,but you are still not grasping the problem as you don't go. I see week in week out at away games, many many old faces missing and when I bump in to away from football they explain the club pushed and hurt them to far and they are the fans we need.

When I go to places like Boro nowadays we take about 80 odd fans on a Tuesday night, we used to take 250 on a Tuesday night there. WE have now got one of the worst away followings in the Championship.
City were always known for their great away support no matter what. 70'S/80'S/90'S and up to a few yrs ago.
Even at Burnley to go up to the Prem we only took 1,500 and you could pay on the day(2,500 tickets were available).

I fully understand Annis. If those fans didn't come then full credit to them. My point is about numbers. We had larger crowds under Tan in red than we have had in 40 years in blue.

They either didn't stop coming when the rebrand occurred so to stop coming later on when back in blue is hypocritical or linked to success or stopped coming at that time and full credit to them.

The only real stat relevant regarding Tan is post the rebrand when the crowds were huge due to the investment and success it brought.

Ian, I thought returning to Blue, would bring back the thousands, I was wrong.

So in my opinion the damage had already been done and if you keep hurting people,laughing at people,stripping them of their desire/passion,some will forgive, some will forgive in time and some will never forgive.

It will take a long long time to ever get the feeling back and for some that might never happen again as people move on and find other things to do in life.

Plus the the Red Glory hunting Brigade wildly return when the Glory returns.

I never thought it would make a difference, a quick glance at our promotion winning team in red whatever type of fan you want to label them is enough evidence. Many will disagree because they want everything perfect, unfortunately that's not reality but the dismantling of the over paid squad, the more sensible approach to finances of the club are being addressed and while Slade is not the man to take us forward he has held it together and I believe come the end of his tenure in the summer he will leave a reasonable team with a decent age balance for his successor ( Bellamy ) to add to and take things forward.

A lot still have the premiership hangover and was a big hangover for us because unlike most teams he get there and drop out we have been to hell and back and waited an eternity.

Fans will return, the fan base is there they just can't be bothered right now but a new exciting team and success would see the flooding back. It will happen, when is the big question.

Gareth, Glory hunters will return for Glory thats Guaranteed.
But we need the hardcore fans to return. I spoke to TLG aka Dave Sugarman and after nearly 40 years of supporting City, due to the Rebrand and he stated Tans name, he has moved on and found new things to do.

I look around me at away games and many many old faces are now no longer going and that hurts and they were the passionate ones.

We also need, well the club needs to encourage new fans to come along, the kids,cheap,cheap prices.

That is true Annis but Dave stopped going as soon as the rebrand occurred so is not relevant to this debate really. The relevance is on those 8500+ fans who came when we were red last time we were in the championship (under Tan) and 15000 fans who have gone since we were relegated. That is success related and only success will bring them back.

Neil,
Dave and many others stopped, could even be a few thousand, some tried to come back, Ive spoken to dozens upon dozens over the last few years and they don't feel its their club anymore.
We had a good run a few weeks ago, did the fans come back? NO they got less.
It will take more than winning runs, we have been top 6, did they come back? NO
Guaranteed promotion will bring full houses of glory hunters,thats guaranteed.
We need fans now and next season,so the club needs to realise this and do something.

If a return to blue co-incided with a sustained promotion push the crowds would be back no problems.

Neil, Glory hunters will return every time with a successful team.

I don't mean to be funny to you,but you are still not grasping the problem as you don't go. I see week in week out at away games, many many old faces missing and when I bump in to away from football they explain the club pushed and hurt them to far and they are the fans we need.

When I go to places like Boro nowadays we take about 80 odd fans on a Tuesday night, we used to take 250 on a Tuesday night there. WE have now got one of the worst away followings in the Championship.
City were always known for their great away support no matter what. 70'S/80'S/90'S and up to a few yrs ago.
Even at Burnley to go up to the Prem we only took 1,500 and you could pay on the day(2,500 tickets were available).

I fully understand Annis. If those fans didn't come then full credit to them. My point is about numbers. We had larger crowds under Tan in red than we have had in 40 years in blue.

They either didn't stop coming when the rebrand occurred so to stop coming later on when back in blue is hypocritical or linked to success or stopped coming at that time and full credit to them.

The only real stat relevant regarding Tan is post the rebrand when the crowds were huge due to the investment and success it brought.

Neil, The new fans came to watch the opposition and that happens everywhere when your in the Prem, a fact.

Neil, your still missing the point we have lost also our loyal fans through Tans Red and 4 year circus.

How come then our crowds now are the lowest ever in our new stadium and thats under Tan?

Ian, I thought returning to Blue, would bring back the thousands, I was wrong.

So in my opinion the damage had already been done and if you keep hurting people,laughing at people,stripping them of their desire/passion,some will forgive, some will forgive in time and some will never forgive.

It will take a long long time to ever get the feeling back and for some that might never happen again as people move on and find other things to do in life.

Plus the the Red Glory hunting Brigade wildly return when the Glory returns.

I never thought it would make a difference, a quick glance at our promotion winning team in red whatever type of fan you want to label them is enough evidence. Many will disagree because they want everything perfect, unfortunately that's not reality but the dismantling of the over paid squad, the more sensible approach to finances of the club are being addressed and while Slade is not the man to take us forward he has held it together and I believe come the end of his tenure in the summer he will leave a reasonable team with a decent age balance for his successor ( Bellamy ) to add to and take things forward.

A lot still have the premiership hangover and was a big hangover for us because unlike most teams he get there and drop out we have been to hell and back and waited an eternity.

Fans will return, the fan base is there they just can't be bothered right now but a new exciting team and success would see the flooding back. It will happen, when is the big question.

Gareth, Glory hunters will return for Glory thats Guaranteed.
But we need the hardcore fans to return. I spoke to TLG aka Dave Sugarman and after nearly 40 years of supporting City, due to the Rebrand and he stated Tans name, he has moved on and found new things to do.

I look around me at away games and many many old faces are now no longer going and that hurts and they were the passionate ones.

We also need, well the club needs to encourage new fans to come along, the kids,cheap,cheap prices.

That is true Annis but Dave stopped going as soon as the rebrand occurred so is not relevant to this debate really. The relevance is on those 8500+ fans who came when we were red last time we were in the championship (under Tan) and 15000 fans who have gone since we were relegated. That is success related and only success will bring them back.

Neil,
Dave and many others stopped, could even be a few thousand, some tried to come back, Ive spoken to dozens upon dozens over the last few years and they don't feel its their club anymore.
We had a good run a few weeks ago, did the fans come back? NO they got less.
It will take more than winning runs, we have been top 6, did they come back? NO
Guaranteed promotion will bring full houses of glory hunters,thats guaranteed.
We need fans now and next season,so the club needs to realise this and do something.

The ones who deserve most credit out of this are those that stopped coming due to their principles when the rebrand occurred or those that kept coming and are still going now.

I am sorry but those that came through (post rebrand) the championship winning season and premiership year then stopped after we got relegated are just reacting to lack of success on the field.

If a return to blue co-incided with a sustained promotion push the crowds would be back no problems.

Neil, Glory hunters will return every time with a successful team.

I don't mean to be funny to you,but you are still not grasping the problem as you don't go. I see week in week out at away games, many many old faces missing and when I bump in to away from football they explain the club pushed and hurt them to far and they are the fans we need.

When I go to places like Boro nowadays we take about 80 odd fans on a Tuesday night, we used to take 250 on a Tuesday night there. WE have now got one of the worst away followings in the Championship.
City were always known for their great away support no matter what. 70'S/80'S/90'S and up to a few yrs ago.
Even at Burnley to go up to the Prem we only took 1,500 and you could pay on the day(2,500 tickets were available).

I fully understand Annis. If those fans didn't come then full credit to them. My point is about numbers. We had larger crowds under Tan in red than we have had in 40 years in blue.

They either didn't stop coming when the rebrand occurred so to stop coming later on when back in blue is hypocritical or linked to success or stopped coming at that time and full credit to them.

The only real stat relevant regarding Tan is post the rebrand when the crowds were huge due to the investment and success it brought.

Neil, The new fans came to watch the opposition and that happens everywhere when your in the Prem, a fact.

Neil, your still missing the point we have lost also our loyal fans through Tans Red and 4 year circus.

How come then our crowds now are the lowest ever in our new stadium and thats under Tan?

I fully explained the crowds in my post

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=166339

They are the lowest in our new stadium and that is due to success, cup final and play offs since moving.

Our crowds are similar to the last time we were at this level in the championship.

Ian, I thought returning to Blue, would bring back the thousands, I was wrong.

So in my opinion the damage had already been done and if you keep hurting people,laughing at people,stripping them of their desire/passion,some will forgive, some will forgive in time and some will never forgive.

It will take a long long time to ever get the feeling back and for some that might never happen again as people move on and find other things to do in life.

Plus the the Red Glory hunting Brigade wildly return when the Glory returns.

I never thought it would make a difference, a quick glance at our promotion winning team in red whatever type of fan you want to label them is enough evidence. Many will disagree because they want everything perfect, unfortunately that's not reality but the dismantling of the over paid squad, the more sensible approach to finances of the club are being addressed and while Slade is not the man to take us forward he has held it together and I believe come the end of his tenure in the summer he will leave a reasonable team with a decent age balance for his successor ( Bellamy ) to add to and take things forward.

A lot still have the premiership hangover and was a big hangover for us because unlike most teams he get there and drop out we have been to hell and back and waited an eternity.

Fans will return, the fan base is there they just can't be bothered right now but a new exciting team and success would see the flooding back. It will happen, when is the big question.

Gareth, Glory hunters will return for Glory thats Guaranteed.
But we need the hardcore fans to return. I spoke to TLG aka Dave Sugarman and after nearly 40 years of supporting City, due to the Rebrand and he stated Tans name, he has moved on and found new things to do.

I look around me at away games and many many old faces are now no longer going and that hurts and they were the passionate ones.

We also need, well the club needs to encourage new fans to come along, the kids,cheap,cheap prices.

That is true Annis but Dave stopped going as soon as the rebrand occurred so is not relevant to this debate really. The relevance is on those 8500+ fans who came when we were red last time we were in the championship (under Tan) and 15000 fans who have gone since we were relegated. That is success related and only success will bring them back.

Neil,
Dave and many others stopped, could even be a few thousand, some tried to come back, Ive spoken to dozens upon dozens over the last few years and they don't feel its their club anymore.
We had a good run a few weeks ago, did the fans come back? NO they got less.
It will take more than winning runs, we have been top 6, did they come back? NO
Guaranteed promotion will bring full houses of glory hunters,thats guaranteed.
We need fans now and next season,so the club needs to realise this and do something.

The ones who deserve most credit out of this are those that stopped coming due to their principles when the rebrand occurred or those that kept coming and are still going now.

I am sorry but those that came through (post rebrand) the championship winning season and premiership year then stopped after we got relegated are just reacting to lack of success on the field.

Utter bollocks from someone who doesn't go regularly themself. Long term supporters who have definitely seen more lows than highs over the years have tried to explain to you that success is not an issue, but you seem to have an overwhelming desire to appear superior to others and are very judgemental and opinionated.

If a return to blue co-incided with a sustained promotion push the crowds would be back no problems.

Neil, Glory hunters will return every time with a successful team.

I don't mean to be funny to you,but you are still not grasping the problem as you don't go. I see week in week out at away games, many many old faces missing and when I bump in to away from football they explain the club pushed and hurt them to far and they are the fans we need.

When I go to places like Boro nowadays we take about 80 odd fans on a Tuesday night, we used to take 250 on a Tuesday night there. WE have now got one of the worst away followings in the Championship.
City were always known for their great away support no matter what. 70'S/80'S/90'S and up to a few yrs ago.
Even at Burnley to go up to the Prem we only took 1,500 and you could pay on the day(2,500 tickets were available).

I fully understand Annis. If those fans didn't come then full credit to them. My point is about numbers. We had larger crowds under Tan in red than we have had in 40 years in blue.

They either didn't stop coming when the rebrand occurred so to stop coming later on when back in blue is hypocritical or linked to success or stopped coming at that time and full credit to them.

The only real stat relevant regarding Tan is post the rebrand when the crowds were huge due to the investment and success it brought.

Neil, The new fans came to watch the opposition and that happens everywhere when your in the Prem, a fact.

Neil, your still missing the point we have lost also our loyal fans through Tans Red and 4 year circus.

How come then our crowds now are the lowest ever in our new stadium and thats under Tan?

I fully explained the crowds in my post

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=166339

They are the lowest in our new stadium and that is due to success, cup final and play offs since moving.

Our crowds are similar to the last time we were at this level in the championship.

Ok Neil a question and please answer totally honesty.

Do you believe there are fans out there who do not go nowadays because of Tan and what his rebrand/circus did to our club?

Ian, I thought returning to Blue, would bring back the thousands, I was wrong.

So in my opinion the damage had already been done and if you keep hurting people,laughing at people,stripping them of their desire/passion,some will forgive, some will forgive in time and some will never forgive.

It will take a long long time to ever get the feeling back and for some that might never happen again as people move on and find other things to do in life.

Plus the the Red Glory hunting Brigade wildly return when the Glory returns.

I never thought it would make a difference, a quick glance at our promotion winning team in red whatever type of fan you want to label them is enough evidence. Many will disagree because they want everything perfect, unfortunately that's not reality but the dismantling of the over paid squad, the more sensible approach to finances of the club are being addressed and while Slade is not the man to take us forward he has held it together and I believe come the end of his tenure in the summer he will leave a reasonable team with a decent age balance for his successor ( Bellamy ) to add to and take things forward.

A lot still have the premiership hangover and was a big hangover for us because unlike most teams he get there and drop out we have been to hell and back and waited an eternity.

Fans will return, the fan base is there they just can't be bothered right now but a new exciting team and success would see the flooding back. It will happen, when is the big question.

Spot on.

Up to the relegation there was the big Mo....Momentum. The rebrand dented or destroyed it for a lot of old school, who since the stadium move were losing interest in our sanitised setting anyway. But, the new fans were getting were replacing them 3 to 1 (must have been that ratio or higher)..

We were not relegated as a normal club (when have we been) as we were in a full blown civil war that has not been pleasant. Ole was a disaster that can only be measured on the Richter scale, and that Norwich second half come back was the realisation for most of us that he was so hopelessly out of his depth we were up the creek without a paddle.

The reversal was simply a halting of the decline, we have bumped along its plateau for the last year. Slade ridding ourselves of a lot of the squad that ultimately hasn't delivered, hopefully finding that 1 or 2 of the U21's can step up and leaving Bellers a tidy little war chest may start the positive momentum that we desperately require.

Ian, I thought returning to Blue, would bring back the thousands, I was wrong.

So in my opinion the damage had already been done and if you keep hurting people,laughing at people,stripping them of their desire/passion,some will forgive, some will forgive in time and some will never forgive.

It will take a long long time to ever get the feeling back and for some that might never happen again as people move on and find other things to do in life.

Plus the the Red Glory hunting Brigade wildly return when the Glory returns.

I never thought it would make a difference, a quick glance at our promotion winning team in red whatever type of fan you want to label them is enough evidence. Many will disagree because they want everything perfect, unfortunately that's not reality but the dismantling of the over paid squad, the more sensible approach to finances of the club are being addressed and while Slade is not the man to take us forward he has held it together and I believe come the end of his tenure in the summer he will leave a reasonable team with a decent age balance for his successor ( Bellamy ) to add to and take things forward.

A lot still have the premiership hangover and was a big hangover for us because unlike most teams he get there and drop out we have been to hell and back and waited an eternity.

Fans will return, the fan base is there they just can't be bothered right now but a new exciting team and success would see the flooding back. It will happen, when is the big question.

Gareth, Glory hunters will return for Glory thats Guaranteed.
But we need the hardcore fans to return. I spoke to TLG aka Dave Sugarman and after nearly 40 years of supporting City, due to the Rebrand and he stated Tans name, he has moved on and found new things to do.

I look around me at away games and many many old faces are now no longer going and that hurts and they were the passionate ones.

We also need, well the club needs to encourage new fans to come along, the kids,cheap,cheap prices.

That is true Annis but Dave stopped going as soon as the rebrand occurred so is not relevant to this debate really. The relevance is on those 8500+ fans who came when we were red last time we were in the championship (under Tan) and 15000 fans who have gone since we were relegated. That is success related and only success will bring them back.

Neil,
Dave and many others stopped, could even be a few thousand, some tried to come back, Ive spoken to dozens upon dozens over the last few years and they don't feel its their club anymore.
We had a good run a few weeks ago, did the fans come back? NO they got less.
It will take more than winning runs, we have been top 6, did they come back? NO
Guaranteed promotion will bring full houses of glory hunters,thats guaranteed.
We need fans now and next season,so the club needs to realise this and do something.

The ones who deserve most credit out of this are those that stopped coming due to their principles when the rebrand occurred or those that kept coming and are still going now.

I am sorry but those that came through (post rebrand) the championship winning season and premiership year then stopped after we got relegated are just reacting to lack of success on the field.

Utter bollocks from someone who doesn't go regularly themself. Long term supporters who have definitely seen more lows than highs over the years have tried to explain to you that success is not an issue, but you seem to have an overwhelming desire to appear superior to others and are very judgemental and opinionated.

He's the self appointed Chief Inspector of the Attendance Police but doesn't attend himself. You couldn't make it up.

Ian, I thought returning to Blue, would bring back the thousands, I was wrong.

So in my opinion the damage had already been done and if you keep hurting people,laughing at people,stripping them of their desire/passion,some will forgive, some will forgive in time and some will never forgive.

It will take a long long time to ever get the feeling back and for some that might never happen again as people move on and find other things to do in life.

Plus the the Red Glory hunting Brigade wildly return when the Glory returns.

I never thought it would make a difference, a quick glance at our promotion winning team in red whatever type of fan you want to label them is enough evidence. Many will disagree because they want everything perfect, unfortunately that's not reality but the dismantling of the over paid squad, the more sensible approach to finances of the club are being addressed and while Slade is not the man to take us forward he has held it together and I believe come the end of his tenure in the summer he will leave a reasonable team with a decent age balance for his successor ( Bellamy ) to add to and take things forward.

A lot still have the premiership hangover and was a big hangover for us because unlike most teams he get there and drop out we have been to hell and back and waited an eternity.

Fans will return, the fan base is there they just can't be bothered right now but a new exciting team and success would see the flooding back. It will happen, when is the big question.

Gareth, Glory hunters will return for Glory thats Guaranteed.
But we need the hardcore fans to return. I spoke to TLG aka Dave Sugarman and after nearly 40 years of supporting City, due to the Rebrand and he stated Tans name, he has moved on and found new things to do.

I look around me at away games and many many old faces are now no longer going and that hurts and they were the passionate ones.

We also need, well the club needs to encourage new fans to come along, the kids,cheap,cheap prices.

That is true Annis but Dave stopped going as soon as the rebrand occurred so is not relevant to this debate really. The relevance is on those 8500+ fans who came when we were red last time we were in the championship (under Tan) and 15000 fans who have gone since we were relegated. That is success related and only success will bring them back.

Neil,
Dave and many others stopped, could even be a few thousand, some tried to come back, Ive spoken to dozens upon dozens over the last few years and they don't feel its their club anymore.
We had a good run a few weeks ago, did the fans come back? NO they got less.
It will take more than winning runs, we have been top 6, did they come back? NO
Guaranteed promotion will bring full houses of glory hunters,thats guaranteed.
We need fans now and next season,so the club needs to realise this and do something.

The ones who deserve most credit out of this are those that stopped coming due to their principles when the rebrand occurred or those that kept coming and are still going now.

I am sorry but those that came through (post rebrand) the championship winning season and premiership year then stopped after we got relegated are just reacting to lack of success on the field.

Utter bollocks from someone who doesn't go regularly themself. Long term supporters who have definitely seen more lows than highs over the years have tried to explain to you that success is not an issue, but you seem to have an overwhelming desire to appear superior to others and are very judgemental and opinionated.

Of course there are other reasons why people don't go. My point is those that say they no longer come because of Tan but only decided this season.

Ian, I thought returning to Blue, would bring back the thousands, I was wrong.

So in my opinion the damage had already been done and if you keep hurting people,laughing at people,stripping them of their desire/passion,some will forgive, some will forgive in time and some will never forgive.

It will take a long long time to ever get the feeling back and for some that might never happen again as people move on and find other things to do in life.

Plus the the Red Glory hunting Brigade wildly return when the Glory returns.

I never thought it would make a difference, a quick glance at our promotion winning team in red whatever type of fan you want to label them is enough evidence. Many will disagree because they want everything perfect, unfortunately that's not reality but the dismantling of the over paid squad, the more sensible approach to finances of the club are being addressed and while Slade is not the man to take us forward he has held it together and I believe come the end of his tenure in the summer he will leave a reasonable team with a decent age balance for his successor ( Bellamy ) to add to and take things forward.

A lot still have the premiership hangover and was a big hangover for us because unlike most teams he get there and drop out we have been to hell and back and waited an eternity.

Fans will return, the fan base is there they just can't be bothered right now but a new exciting team and success would see the flooding back. It will happen, when is the big question.

Gareth, Glory hunters will return for Glory thats Guaranteed.
But we need the hardcore fans to return. I spoke to TLG aka Dave Sugarman and after nearly 40 years of supporting City, due to the Rebrand and he stated Tans name, he has moved on and found new things to do.

I look around me at away games and many many old faces are now no longer going and that hurts and they were the passionate ones.

We also need, well the club needs to encourage new fans to come along, the kids,cheap,cheap prices.

That is true Annis but Dave stopped going as soon as the rebrand occurred so is not relevant to this debate really. The relevance is on those 8500+ fans who came when we were red last time we were in the championship (under Tan) and 15000 fans who have gone since we were relegated. That is success related and only success will bring them back.

Neil,
Dave and many others stopped, could even be a few thousand, some tried to come back, Ive spoken to dozens upon dozens over the last few years and they don't feel its their club anymore.
We had a good run a few weeks ago, did the fans come back? NO they got less.
It will take more than winning runs, we have been top 6, did they come back? NO
Guaranteed promotion will bring full houses of glory hunters,thats guaranteed.
We need fans now and next season,so the club needs to realise this and do something.

The ones who deserve most credit out of this are those that stopped coming due to their principles when the rebrand occurred or those that kept coming and are still going now.

I am sorry but those that came through (post rebrand) the championship winning season and premiership year then stopped after we got relegated are just reacting to lack of success on the field.

Utter bollocks from someone who doesn't go regularly themself. Long term supporters who have definitely seen more lows than highs over the years have tried to explain to you that success is not an issue, but you seem to have an overwhelming desire to appear superior to others and are very judgemental and opinionated.

Of course there are other reasons why people don't go. My point is those that say they no longer come because of Tan but only decided this season.

Neil,
Ive spoken to many many fans and yes some of them went in the Prem as they had waited all their lives to watch City in the Prem, their dream turned out to be a nightmare, so did mine and so many also never returned and it is sadly very very true.

Ian, I thought returning to Blue, would bring back the thousands, I was wrong.

So in my opinion the damage had already been done and if you keep hurting people,laughing at people,stripping them of their desire/passion,some will forgive, some will forgive in time and some will never forgive.

It will take a long long time to ever get the feeling back and for some that might never happen again as people move on and find other things to do in life.

Plus the the Red Glory hunting Brigade wildly return when the Glory returns.

I never thought it would make a difference, a quick glance at our promotion winning team in red whatever type of fan you want to label them is enough evidence. Many will disagree because they want everything perfect, unfortunately that's not reality but the dismantling of the over paid squad, the more sensible approach to finances of the club are being addressed and while Slade is not the man to take us forward he has held it together and I believe come the end of his tenure in the summer he will leave a reasonable team with a decent age balance for his successor ( Bellamy ) to add to and take things forward.

A lot still have the premiership hangover and was a big hangover for us because unlike most teams he get there and drop out we have been to hell and back and waited an eternity.

Fans will return, the fan base is there they just can't be bothered right now but a new exciting team and success would see the flooding back. It will happen, when is the big question.

Gareth, Glory hunters will return for Glory thats Guaranteed.
But we need the hardcore fans to return. I spoke to TLG aka Dave Sugarman and after nearly 40 years of supporting City, due to the Rebrand and he stated Tans name, he has moved on and found new things to do.

I look around me at away games and many many old faces are now no longer going and that hurts and they were the passionate ones.

We also need, well the club needs to encourage new fans to come along, the kids,cheap,cheap prices.

That is true Annis but Dave stopped going as soon as the rebrand occurred so is not relevant to this debate really. The relevance is on those 8500+ fans who came when we were red last time we were in the championship (under Tan) and 15000 fans who have gone since we were relegated. That is success related and only success will bring them back.

Neil,
Dave and many others stopped, could even be a few thousand, some tried to come back, Ive spoken to dozens upon dozens over the last few years and they don't feel its their club anymore.
We had a good run a few weeks ago, did the fans come back? NO they got less.
It will take more than winning runs, we have been top 6, did they come back? NO
Guaranteed promotion will bring full houses of glory hunters,thats guaranteed.
We need fans now and next season,so the club needs to realise this and do something.

The ones who deserve most credit out of this are those that stopped coming due to their principles when the rebrand occurred or those that kept coming and are still going now.

I am sorry but those that came through (post rebrand) the championship winning season and premiership year then stopped after we got relegated are just reacting to lack of success on the field.

Utter bollocks from someone who doesn't go regularly themself. Long term supporters who have definitely seen more lows than highs over the years have tried to explain to you that success is not an issue, but you seem to have an overwhelming desire to appear superior to others and are very judgemental and opinionated.

He's the self appointed Chief Inspector of the Attendance Police but doesn't attend himself. You couldn't make it up.

Neither do you.

My point is valid. There are many reasons why people don't come and I respect that. However my point is that those that say it is due to Tan and the rebrand yet only decided that this year or last. That makes no sense.

Ian, I thought returning to Blue, would bring back the thousands, I was wrong.

So in my opinion the damage had already been done and if you keep hurting people,laughing at people,stripping them of their desire/passion,some will forgive, some will forgive in time and some will never forgive.

It will take a long long time to ever get the feeling back and for some that might never happen again as people move on and find other things to do in life.

Plus the the Red Glory hunting Brigade wildly return when the Glory returns.

I never thought it would make a difference, a quick glance at our promotion winning team in red whatever type of fan you want to label them is enough evidence. Many will disagree because they want everything perfect, unfortunately that's not reality but the dismantling of the over paid squad, the more sensible approach to finances of the club are being addressed and while Slade is not the man to take us forward he has held it together and I believe come the end of his tenure in the summer he will leave a reasonable team with a decent age balance for his successor ( Bellamy ) to add to and take things forward.

A lot still have the premiership hangover and was a big hangover for us because unlike most teams he get there and drop out we have been to hell and back and waited an eternity.

Fans will return, the fan base is there they just can't be bothered right now but a new exciting team and success would see the flooding back. It will happen, when is the big question.

Gareth, Glory hunters will return for Glory thats Guaranteed.
But we need the hardcore fans to return. I spoke to TLG aka Dave Sugarman and after nearly 40 years of supporting City, due to the Rebrand and he stated Tans name, he has moved on and found new things to do.

I look around me at away games and many many old faces are now no longer going and that hurts and they were the passionate ones.

We also need, well the club needs to encourage new fans to come along, the kids,cheap,cheap prices.

That is true Annis but Dave stopped going as soon as the rebrand occurred so is not relevant to this debate really. The relevance is on those 8500+ fans who came when we were red last time we were in the championship (under Tan) and 15000 fans who have gone since we were relegated. That is success related and only success will bring them back.

Neil,
Dave and many others stopped, could even be a few thousand, some tried to come back, Ive spoken to dozens upon dozens over the last few years and they don't feel its their club anymore.
We had a good run a few weeks ago, did the fans come back? NO they got less.
It will take more than winning runs, we have been top 6, did they come back? NO
Guaranteed promotion will bring full houses of glory hunters,thats guaranteed.
We need fans now and next season,so the club needs to realise this and do something.

The ones who deserve most credit out of this are those that stopped coming due to their principles when the rebrand occurred or those that kept coming and are still going now.

I am sorry but those that came through (post rebrand) the championship winning season and premiership year then stopped after we got relegated are just reacting to lack of success on the field.

Utter bollocks from someone who doesn't go regularly themself. Long term supporters who have definitely seen more lows than highs over the years have tried to explain to you that success is not an issue, but you seem to have an overwhelming desire to appear superior to others and are very judgemental and opinionated.

Of course there are other reasons why people don't go. My point is those that say they no longer come because of Tan but only decided this season.

Neil,
Ive spoken to many many fans and yes some of them went in the Prem as they had waited all their lives to watch City in the Prem, their dream turned out to be a nightmare, so did mine and so many also never returned and it is sadly very very true.

So they stayed for the premiership ergo proving my point.

In answer to your other post. Yes there are those that stopped coming due to the rebrand and Tan. I have never said otherwise and in fact posted they have my utmost respect.

Ian, I thought returning to Blue, would bring back the thousands, I was wrong.

So in my opinion the damage had already been done and if you keep hurting people,laughing at people,stripping them of their desire/passion,some will forgive, some will forgive in time and some will never forgive.

It will take a long long time to ever get the feeling back and for some that might never happen again as people move on and find other things to do in life.

Plus the the Red Glory hunting Brigade wildly return when the Glory returns.

I never thought it would make a difference, a quick glance at our promotion winning team in red whatever type of fan you want to label them is enough evidence. Many will disagree because they want everything perfect, unfortunately that's not reality but the dismantling of the over paid squad, the more sensible approach to finances of the club are being addressed and while Slade is not the man to take us forward he has held it together and I believe come the end of his tenure in the summer he will leave a reasonable team with a decent age balance for his successor ( Bellamy ) to add to and take things forward.

A lot still have the premiership hangover and was a big hangover for us because unlike most teams he get there and drop out we have been to hell and back and waited an eternity.

Fans will return, the fan base is there they just can't be bothered right now but a new exciting team and success would see the flooding back. It will happen, when is the big question.

Gareth, Glory hunters will return for Glory thats Guaranteed.
But we need the hardcore fans to return. I spoke to TLG aka Dave Sugarman and after nearly 40 years of supporting City, due to the Rebrand and he stated Tans name, he has moved on and found new things to do.

I look around me at away games and many many old faces are now no longer going and that hurts and they were the passionate ones.

We also need, well the club needs to encourage new fans to come along, the kids,cheap,cheap prices.

That is true Annis but Dave stopped going as soon as the rebrand occurred so is not relevant to this debate really. The relevance is on those 8500+ fans who came when we were red last time we were in the championship (under Tan) and 15000 fans who have gone since we were relegated. That is success related and only success will bring them back.

Neil,
Dave and many others stopped, could even be a few thousand, some tried to come back, Ive spoken to dozens upon dozens over the last few years and they don't feel its their club anymore.
We had a good run a few weeks ago, did the fans come back? NO they got less.
It will take more than winning runs, we have been top 6, did they come back? NO
Guaranteed promotion will bring full houses of glory hunters,thats guaranteed.
We need fans now and next season,so the club needs to realise this and do something.

The ones who deserve most credit out of this are those that stopped coming due to their principles when the rebrand occurred or those that kept coming and are still going now.

I am sorry but those that came through (post rebrand) the championship winning season and premiership year then stopped after we got relegated are just reacting to lack of success on the field.

Utter bollocks from someone who doesn't go regularly themself. Long term supporters who have definitely seen more lows than highs over the years have tried to explain to you that success is not an issue, but you seem to have an overwhelming desire to appear superior to others and are very judgemental and opinionated.

Of course there are other reasons why people don't go. My point is those that say they no longer come because of Tan but only decided this season.

Neil,
Ive spoken to many many fans and yes some of them went in the Prem as they had waited all their lives to watch City in the Prem, their dream turned out to be a nightmare, so did mine and so many also never returned and it is sadly very very true.

So they stayed for the premiership ergo proving my point.

In answer to your other post. Yes there are those that stopped coming due to the rebrand and Tan. I have never said otherwise and in fact posted they have my utmost respect.

It does not prove your point, they went because after 20/30 or 40 years of supporting City through all the real bad times, they felt they deserved a bit of glory,but Sadly it turned in to a night mare.

I WILL STATE IT AGAIN, VINCENT TAN IN MY OPINION HAS VIRTUALLY KILLED CARDIFF CITY.