More people should vote Plaid Cymru

Wales would be much richer as an independent country and as a member of the EU. Eventually, this will happen anyway as England will eventually leave the EU and Wales will want to stay in it to receive EU funding. Wales should work towards making the Welsh language the official language, English and German/French as the business and international languages and move towards us becoming us embracing who we truly are and being a proud member of the EU block.

Also, Wales as an independent country could hurt England by doing what Ireland have done and lowering corporation tax seeking investment. Why would a company invest in London when they can invest in the South Wales area, roughly 2 hours away and pay less tax? The reality is England knows this is the case, well certainly those in Westminster do, so they continue to try and tell us we need them when in reality they fear us going it alone.

Wales would eventually become strong as hell as an independent country. Its not a massive country with an out of control population. The majority of economic activity is concentrated in the South and it has a vast amount of land available for companies to invest and build. On top of that, land is genuinely cheaper, tax rates could be much more competitive, we could ensure the NHS stays the NHS and we can ensure that the youth of today are given opportunities in manufacturing and other sectors rather than being continuously forced into the service sector by an out of touch economic model centred around London.

In conclusion, many continue to perpetuate the myth that Wales as an independent country and member of the EU (cue the pedants who'll say Wales as an EU member isn't an independent country - you know what I mean) are still suffering from a colonial mindset being fed lies by self serving elites in Westminster who love nothing more than to serve themselves at the expense of the electorate. The EU and the wider modern world has shown through globalisation that small countries with well managed economies can thrive. An economic revolution could occur in Wales if it went alone as well just as has happened in much of the wider world.

Wales also has a vastly superior landscape which is much more desirable. Millionaires could eventually live between mountains in highly sought valley areas whereas England is mostly an urban concrete jungle and to many that is totally unappealing. Then you have hidden gems like Barafundle Bay and other wonderful beaches along the coast, the possibility of further economic trade with Ireland on the west coast and a possible boost in tourism with the right investment could also increase revenue for both countries.

Vote for Wales. Vote for Plaid Cymru.

80 years too late.......

The rest of the Uk is there to service the London banking sector.

An independant Wales is only a pipe dream of a few nationalists, it probaly carries as much support as the free Cornwall brigade.

Plaids will gain less votes than UKIP which is an embarassement. Yes they will get thier usual MP in Angelsy and west Wales. Leanne Wood is possibly the least effective party leader I have seen. Is she standing for a Westminster seat ?

I thought you were being serious until - "small countries with well managed economies". The WAG can't even run an airport bus service. One thing that may help the welsh economy is if you bottle up whatever you have been taking and flog this to pessimists like me so I can see the world in some weird idealistic haze like you.

I wouldn't trust the current crop of WAG members at all. We have no real natural resources that are viable, even Scotland with their oil wealth are going to find it troubling now that the oil price has dropped.

I want what you are smoking.

I thought you were being serious until - "small countries with well managed economies". The WAG can't even run an airport bus service.[\quote]
Political reform and progression are wonderful things. I think you'll find its this negative and pessimistic outlook that holds Wales back.

One thing that may help the welsh economy is if you bottle up whatever you have been taking and flog this to pessimists like me so I can see the world in some weird idealistic haze like you.[\quote]
Blah de blah I can't debate maturely so I'll just use ad hominems to attack the person making the argument instead.

I wouldn't trust the current crop of WAG members at all. We have no real natural resources that are viable

You mean like Welsh Water that supplies the Midlands? Okay mate.

Any credible arguments now? I've dealt with the ad hominems and pessimistic viewpoint.

I want what you are smoking.

Thats 2 ad hominem attacks now. No true credible counter argument put forward.

I want what you are smoking.

Thats 2 ad hominem attacks now. No true credible counter argument put forward.

Well let's start with making Welsh the official language? How would that help anything?

Plaid Cymru mismanage everything they get their useless hands on.

You would not survive.
Industry will not go into Wales because it is too expensive for transportation to the rest of the Uk and if you think you could live off tourism and a few sheep then you're having a laugh.Tesco recently moved it's depot from Chepstow to Severn Beach because it was costing £20 a lorry x 150 a week.Running S4C alone would make you all skint
Vote UKIP

I thought you were being serious until - "small countries with well managed economies". The WAG can't even run an airport bus service.[\quote]
Political reform and progression are wonderful things. I think you'll find its this negative and pessimistic outlook that holds Wales back.

One thing that may help the welsh economy is if you bottle up whatever you have been taking and flog this to pessimists like me so I can see the world in some weird idealistic haze like you.[\quote]
Blah de blah I can't debate maturely so I'll just use ad hominems to attack the person making the argument instead.

I wouldn't trust the current crop of WAG members at all. We have no real natural resources that are viable

You mean like Welsh Water that supplies the Midlands? Okay mate.

Any credible arguments now? I've dealt with the ad hominems and pessimistic viewpoint.

So our economy will be propped up by us flogging water to the English? I was originally suggesting more towards the strike price of coal would be uneconomical. How much money do you think Wales can charge the brummies for our Welsh water? I suspect after you take into account the cost of engineering the solutions to get the water to where it is needed the money left over wouldnt even allow the WAG of buying another failing airport and allow it fail further http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17343140

Pipe dream - and to avoid further ad hominems I wont call you an idiot, but your idea is ill thought through and idiotic

You would not survive.
Industry will not go into Wales because it is too expensive for transportation to the rest of the Uk and if you think you could live off tourism and a few sheep then you're having a laugh.Tesco recently moved it's depot from Chepstow to Severn Beach because it was costing £20 a lorry x 150 a week.Running S4C alone would make you all skint

None of this makes sense economically. Its expensive in Wales because you set the rules on how we do business. In an independent Wales we would be much more competitive which of course Farage and his cronies know and why he wants Wales to remain in the UK even if the UK goes independent from the EU. Farage is a little Englander. If he could cut Wales off then he would so no problem. The reason is he knows its a risk to England in the long run just as HP etc. have moved to Galway, Ireland for taxation benefits. Don't let economic facts get in the way of your rhetoric though.



http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/ ... rate-taxe/

Vote UKIP

Oh the irony. Cries about another country proposing independence and then tells everyone to vote for a party proposing the same. The hypocrisy of the English is bewildering. Only England can go independent though, right? Laughable.

Well let's start with making Welsh the official language? How would that help anything?

Why wouldn't it? If English remains a business and international language whats wrong with restoring cultural values in the UK? The rest of Europe seem perfectly fine in speaking their own national language and speaking English when they come to the UK to work to take British peoples jobs, as they claim. Obviously, with Welsh speakers going across the border and speaking their own language whilst working however, I do appreciate that the likes of Farage might feel uncomfortable listening to someone speaking Welsh whilst on a bus.

Plaid Cymru mismanage everything they get their useless hands on.

Yet ironically its Labour who has mismanaged much of Wales for years yet people continue to vote the idiots back in.

So our economy will be propped up by us flogging water to the English? I was originally suggesting more towards the strike price of coal would be uneconomical. How much money do you think Wales can charge the brummies for our Welsh water? I suspect after you take into account the cost of engineering the solutions to get the water to where it is needed the money left over wouldnt even allow the WAG of buying another failing airport and allow it fail further http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17343140

In the short term, yes. Whilst England puts more into place to supply the Midlands with its own water from other areas of the UK, Wales can invest to ensure that its economy is propped up elsewhere whether thats through agricultural means, industrial, a service sector economy or a combination of all spread around the country. Due to Wales' make up as well, devolution is also entirely possible just like in other much more affluent EU countries to ensure that the right micro-economies are in place to support the local people. Please tell me what some of the other EU countries have to offer that Wales doesn't, please. The reality is people fear change and the British public is generally apathetic to such in modern times.

Well let's start with making Welsh the official language? How would that help anything?

Why wouldn't it? If English remains a business and international language whats wrong with restoring cultural values in the UK? The rest of Europe seem perfectly fine in speaking their own national language and speaking English when they come to the UK to work to take British peoples jobs, as they claim. Obviously, with Welsh speakers going across the border and speaking their own language whilst working however, I do appreciate that the likes of Farage might feel uncomfortable listening to someone speaking Welsh whilst on a bus.

Plaid Cymru mismanage everything they get their useless hands on.

Yet ironically its Labour who has mismanaged much of Wales for years yet people continue to vote the idiots back in.

Finally I agree with something you have said "Yet ironically its Labour who has mismanaged much of Wales". Fully agree but I don't think Plaid will offer anything other than mismanagement

So our economy will be propped up by us flogging water to the English? I was originally suggesting more towards the strike price of coal would be uneconomical. How much money do you think Wales can charge the brummies for our Welsh water? I suspect after you take into account the cost of engineering the solutions to get the water to where it is needed the money left over wouldnt even allow the WAG of buying another failing airport and allow it fail further http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17343140

In the short term, yes. Whilst England puts more into place to supply the Midlands with its own water from other areas of the UK, Wales can invest to ensure that its economy is propped up elsewhere whether thats through agricultural means, industrial, a service sector economy or a combination of all spread around the country. Due to Wales' make up as well, devolution is also entirely possible just like in other much more affluent EU countries to ensure that the right micro-economies are in place to support the local people. Please tell me what some of the other EU countries have to offer that Wales doesn't, please. The reality is people fear change and the British public is generally apathetic to such in modern times.

Show me the money, how much will we make from this? This sounds about as costed as a Lib dem promise

How can anyone possibly support a British state that has totally failed this country? We have provided coal and iron to fuel their bloody Empire and now, like a colony, most people have nothing. The alternative to breaking Britain is more of the same. In the referendum campaign in Scotland many working class there realised this for the first time. But, like Bluebirds grovelling to Tan, we still have no self-belief here.

How can anyone possibly support a British state that has totally failed this country? We have provided coal and iron to fuel their bloody Empire and now, like a colony, most people have nothing. The alternative to breaking Britain is more of the same. In the referendum campaign in Scotland many working class there realised this for the first time. But, like Bluebirds grovelling to Tan, we still have no self-belief here.

Spot on.

voting plaid green liberal or ukip in Cardiff North will only help the Tories stay in and reduce Labours chances so its a no from me.

How can anyone possibly support a British state that has totally failed this country? We have provided coal and iron to fuel their bloody Empire and now, like a colony, most people have nothing. The alternative to breaking Britain is more of the same. In the referendum campaign in Scotland many working class there realised this for the first time. But, like Bluebirds grovelling to Tan, we still have no self-belief here.

Spot on.

I think it is less a problem of self belief and more a problem in WAG belief.

Some interesting reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Wales that doesn't make my thoughts align well with your own. The fundamental problem with parties like PC is that no matter what the problem is, the solution is always the same - more government more public sector.

That would be the last party I would vote for along with labour. Why does the welsh language get rammed down our throat.
Apparently it costs the welsh assembly hundreds of thousands of pounds a year to translate documents from English to welsh.
As for labour supporting benefit scroungers which are funded by us hard working people......
I rest my case.

I think it is less a problem of self belief and more a problem in WAG belief.

I don't believe in the WAG as it currently exists either but neither do I believe in Westminster which will always have London centric views and the inhabitants of the capital at heart before those elsewhere. I believe if we were in the EU then we'd have political reform and we'd need to be up to a certain standard to be allowed to remain a member anyway. Am I saying independence is going to be an easy ride? No, but it'd be worth it in the long run in putting forward a sustainable future for Wales.

Having said that, I see England leaving the EU and the union in the future anyway. It'd be easier for England to remove from both and for the unified states to remain in the EU. Whatever happens, I'm almost certain Wales and Scotland will want to remain within the EU whereas I do believe eventually the English will opt to leave.

Well let's start with making Welsh the official language? How would that help anything?

Why wouldn't it? If English remains a business and international language whats wrong with restoring cultural values in the UK? The rest of Europe seem perfectly fine in speaking their own national language and speaking English when they come to the UK to work to take British peoples jobs, as they claim. Obviously, with Welsh speakers going across the border and speaking their own language whilst working however, I do appreciate that the likes of Farage might feel uncomfortable listening to someone speaking Welsh whilst on a bus.

Plaid Cymru mismanage everything they get their useless hands on.

Yet ironically its Labour who has mismanaged much of Wales for years yet people continue to vote the idiots back in.

How do you propose making the 95% of the Welsh population who don't speak Welsh speak a language they have previously had no interest in learning.

How do you propose making the 95% of the Welsh population who don't speak Welsh speak a language they have previously had no interest in learning.

I don't. If you really think anyone is suggesting that then God help you. Change takes generations and time. Of course the switch back to predominantly Welsh being used would be transitional and would be aided through a revamped education system. Oh, on top of that, an educational system MASSIVELY let down by Labour, of whom have let the children of Wales fall behind in terms of their economic competitive edge with their global counterparts. Nobody is suggesting that we just overnight start printing everything in Welsh and people will just have to make do.

How do you propose making the 95% of the Welsh population who don't speak Welsh speak a language they have previously had no interest in learning.

I don't. If you really think anyone is suggesting that then God help you. Change takes generations and time. Of course the switch back to predominantly Welsh being used would be transitional and would be aided through a revamped education system. Oh, on top of that, an educational system MASSIVELY let down by Labour, of whom have let the children of Wales fall behind in terms of their economic competitive edge with their global counterparts. Nobody is suggesting that we just overnight start printing everything in Welsh and people will just have to make do.

I understand the sentiment but other than you feeling warm and fuzzy about it, how will this help Wales in it's economical boom? Also you still owe me some numbers on how our 9bn Welsh structural deficit will be plugged by flogging water to the brummies

Barnett you are currently using forum members like putty in your palm, keep up the good work.

Independent country within the EU?
How can you be independent and part of the EU?

As for successful countries within the EU - ask Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece.
Remember Ireland went bust and only survived because of British help.

You are having a laugh. Plaid are a bunch of far left morons that will turn Wales back to the Stone Age. Can Wales survive on its own ? Not a chance in hell. At least Scotland had North Sea oil to sell but what do we have ? Sheep maybe. Plaid also believes Wales can solve there energy problems with 100% wind farms which is a joke. Fantasy land if you think Wales can go alone without the UK.

How do you propose making the 95% of the Welsh population who don't speak Welsh speak a language they have previously had no interest in learning.

I don't. If you really think anyone is suggesting that then God help you. Change takes generations and time. Of course the switch back to predominantly Welsh being used would be transitional and would be aided through a revamped education system. Oh, on top of that, an educational system MASSIVELY let down by Labour, of whom have let the children of Wales fall behind in terms of their economic competitive edge with their global counterparts. Nobody is suggesting that we just overnight start printing everything in Welsh and people will just have to make do.

If you want to improve the education of Welsh children don't waste their time learning Welsh. Teach them Spanish or Mandarin as both would be much more useful towards a global economy. Also I would suggest maths and English would me more helpful.

How can you be independent and part of the EU?

(cue the pedants who'll say Wales as an EU member isn't an independent country - you know what I mean)

So predictable. At least make an effort.

I hope you like the idea of the Euro if you wish to become independent.

As we have seen around the EU, it is doing marvelously well.

If you want to improve the education of Welsh children don't waste their time learning Welsh. Teach them Spanish or Mandarin as both would be much more useful towards a global economy. Also I would suggest maths and English would me more helpful.

Norwegians learn Norwegian and English. Why can't the Welsh learn Welsh first, English second? Still no true rebuttal in this thread. Just ad hominem attacks and fallacies.