Malky VS Ole. Stats and Facts anyone?

I have been alot on this forum and im one of those who read more than i post. I like to see others opinions and see things from both sides.

I would like to state than i am not a fan of either managers work this year. Both have failed but i do support OGS 100% now, just like i supported Malky 100%.

I see many topics about stats on how Malky would kept us up, how OGS will keep us up/down and how bad transfers both have done. The reason i am making this post is because i saw a topic here discussing how Malky would have failed to keep us up based on facts.

Link: http://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=140562

Lets take a look behind the facts.

Malky ..... 4-5-9 13-28 17pts 0.944pts / game
Solskjaer . 3-3-10 16-37 12pts 0.750pts / game

What facts do we get here that we actually can agree on? I see some facts.

Malky got us more points. FACT
Malky had less goals against. FACT
OGS gets less points. FACT
OGS scores more goals. FACT
Both managers have failed to get enough points to secure the place so far. FACT

If we read those facts it shows Malky did a better job in his half of the season compared to what Ole has done so far when it comes to collecting points. But does it really show the whole picture?

Malky is jugded after 18 matches, Ole after 16. After the next 2 matches it can look better for Ole or even worse, we dont know yet.

Are there other factors we should look at if we shall compare both managers?

Knowledge:

Malky knew this team. He got them up, he took the good spirit with him from the championship and he had the loyalty of the players because many of them were his signings. Malky also had the whole pre season to make changes and prepare for PL.

Ole: Had to begin from scratch mid season without the knowledge on the players that we require from a manager. Was signed to play a certain type of football and he had to try and change the team to play his way before he could actually see if it works or not.

Conclusion: Malky had a huge advantage over Ole in his first half of the season.

Transfers:

Malky knew this team, he should know exactly what we needed to make our team stronger. Better inside knowledge on the team than what Malky had is not possible.
Malky budget: 50mill

Ole didn`t know this team before he had to sign players.
Ole budget: 5mill

Conclucion: Malky knew the team and still only got us 2 players that look able to play in PL. OGS signings is early to judge but imo Cala, Fabio and Dæhli will be good PL quality players and for 1/10 of the price Malky paid.

Fixture list:

Before Ole: 4 wins in 20 matches
Ole: 3 wins in 16 matches

Conclusion: We have looked like a relegation team the whole season and our form has continued almost identical under Ole.


Now lets look at the facts again:

Malky knew the team, had worked in his tactics over years, budget of 50mill, had bought many of the players and had pre season. FACT

Ole didn`t know the team, had to try to change the way we have played for years, budget of 5 mill, had only bought players based on a few weeks knowledge. FACT

When i look at those facts in the table again the work Malky did for us this season dont look so good anymore. He had all the time in the world to prepare for the season and still we only got 4 wins in 20 matches before Ole came in.
My verdict is that we would been relegated with Malky because when he couldn`t deliver better after so long time as manager how would he change that?

Ole has 3 wins in 16 matches. Less than impressive. Being a striker he still failed to see that Campbell/Jones aint the solution. Tried too long to find a team who could play his formation before he realised that our team only have a few players currently at PL quality.
My verdict is that we will be relegated with Ole as manager.

BUT i dont think Ole has done so bad if compared to Malky. Afterall Ole still has 2 matches left and if he ends up at 15 points from 18 matches i think that is impressive compared to Malky`s 17 in 18.

To end my post: Stats as Facts is a dangerous way too compare managers. There are too many things that can influence results to make a fair judgement on the persons who try their best to make us a great team.

decent post on a tricky subject to be fair.


One thing i will say about Ole's transfers, its easy with hindsight of course but some of them didnt look bad.

Zaha had something to prove and 3 or 4 months of consistantly good play could have got him on the edge of the england world cup squad, while Kenwyn Jones is an experienced premier league striker who has scored goals (albiet not a lot) but was also the type of striker we were crying out for.

Neither of these worked however, which of course is a shame.

Very interesting read as always

All I will say is if Malky or Ole were today applying for a managers job, I 100% reckon Malky would get the job before Ole every time without a doubt.

All I will say is if Malky or Ole were today applying for a managers job, I 100% reckon Malky would get the job before Ole every time without a doubt.

not if Tan was doing the interviews

All I will say is if Malky or Ole were today applying for a managers job, I 100% reckon Malky would get the job before Ole every time without a doubt.

not if Tan was doing the interviews

You got me

All I will say is if Malky or Ole were today applying for a managers job, I 100% reckon Malky would get the job before Ole every time without a doubt.

I disagree a lot of clubs will be very interested in this summer court case. Malky hasn't exactly left himself in a lot of glory with the signings he's made with a big budget.

Good Op though, actually uses common sense when analysing stats.

All I will say is if Malky or Ole were today applying for a managers job, I 100% reckon Malky would get the job before Ole every time without a doubt.

I disagree a lot of clubs will be very interested in this summer court case. Malky hasn't exactly left himself in a lot of glory with the signings he's made with a big budget.

I will state now that Malky will win the court case or at very worse Tan settles out of court to Malky

All I will say is if Malky or Ole were today applying for a managers job, I 100% reckon Malky would get the job before Ole every time without a doubt.

I disagree a lot of clubs will be very interested in this summer court case. Malky hasn't exactly left himself in a lot of glory with the signings he's made with a big budget.

I will state now that Malky will win the court case or at very worse Tan settles out of court to Malky

I have no idea of who will win honestly. I assume Malky will but Tan seems certain he has enough proof so will be interesting. Either way I can't see any premier league club looking at him any time soon just because he wasn't exactly setting the world a light in the Prem when he was here and his management of a big budget was terrible.

However, a expect lots of top Championship clubs will be after him.

I believe that a good jockey can't make a slow horse go quicker, but a poor jockey can make a good horse go slower....

Perhaps the squad just wasn't good enough for even Mourihno to save.

Now this is where ole gets the benifit of doubt. Malky created the squad and spent well to assemble it. Ole needs to get us promoted next season and keep us there to be considered an improvement on malky.

Malky has a championship promotion of his UK CV, Ole was just a better footballer.........

IMO and not FACT, I have seen enough from Ole to tell me he knows what he is doing and next season might be fun..

All I will say is if Malky or Ole were today applying for a managers job, I 100% reckon Malky would get the job before Ole every time without a doubt.

I disagree a lot of clubs will be very interested in this summer court case. Malky hasn't exactly left himself in a lot of glory with the signings he's made with a big budget.

I will state now that Malky will win the court case or at very worse Tan settles out of court to Malky

I tend to agree with you, I don't believe that Malky was guilty of anything more than being naive and inexperienced in his transfer dealings and is pretty much a one trick pony tactically.

Malky had a few seasons to build a squad ole had january

I have been alot on this forum and im one of those who read more than i post. I like to see others opinions and see things from both sides.

I would like to state than i am not a fan of either managers work this year. Both have failed but i do support OGS 100% now, just like i supported Malky 100%.

I see many topics about stats on how Malky would kept us up, how OGS will keep us up/down and how bad transfers both have done. The reason i am making this post is because i saw a topic here discussing how Malky would have failed to keep us up based on facts.

Link: http://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=140562

Lets take a look behind the facts.

Malky ..... 4-5-9 13-28 17pts 0.944pts / game
Solskjaer . 3-3-10 16-37 12pts 0.750pts / game

What facts do we get here that we actually can agree on? I see some facts.

Malky got us more points. FACT
Malky had less goals against. FACT
OGS gets less points. FACT
OGS scores more goals. FACT
Both managers have failed to get enough points to secure the place so far. FACT

If we read those facts it shows Malky did a better job in his half of the season compared to what Ole has done so far when it comes to collecting points. But does it really show the whole picture?

Malky is jugded after 18 matches, Ole after 16. After the next 2 matches it can look better for Ole or even worse, we dont know yet.

Are there other factors we should look at if we shall compare both managers?

Knowledge:

Malky knew this team. He got them up, he took the good spirit with him from the championship and he had the loyalty of the players because many of them were his signings. Malky also had the whole pre season to make changes and prepare for PL.

Ole: Had to begin from scratch mid season without the knowledge on the players that we require from a manager. Was signed to play a certain type of football and he had to try and change the team to play his way before he could actually see if it works or not.

Conclusion: Malky had a huge advantage over Ole in his first half of the season.

Transfers:

Malky knew this team, he should know exactly what we needed to make our team stronger. Better inside knowledge on the team than what Malky had is not possible.
Malky budget: 50mill

Ole didn`t know this team before he had to sign players.
Ole budget: 5mill

Conclucion: Malky knew the team and still only got us 2 players that look able to play in PL. OGS signings is early to judge but imo Cala, Fabio and Dæhli will be good PL quality players and for 1/10 of the price Malky paid.

Fixture list:

Before Ole: 4 wins in 20 matches
Ole: 3 wins in 16 matches

Conclusion: We have looked like a relegation team the whole season and our form has continued almost identical under Ole.


Now lets look at the facts again:

Malky knew the team, had worked in his tactics over years, budget of 50mill, had bought many of the players and had pre season. FACT

Ole didn`t know the team, had to try to change the way we have played for years, budget of 5 mill, had only bought players based on a few weeks knowledge. FACT

When i look at those facts in the table again the work Malky did for us this season dont look so good anymore. He had all the time in the world to prepare for the season and still we only got 4 wins in 20 matches before Ole came in.
My verdict is that we would been relegated with Malky because when he couldn`t deliver better after so long time as manager how would he change that?

Ole has 3 wins in 16 matches. Less than impressive. Being a striker he still failed to see that Campbell/Jones aint the solution. Tried too long to find a team who could play his formation before he realised that our team only have a few players currently at PL quality.
My verdict is that we will be relegated with Ole as manager.

BUT i dont think Ole has done so bad if compared to Malky. Afterall Ole still has 2 matches left and if he ends up at 15 points from 18 matches i think that is impressive compared to Malky`s 17 in 18.

To end my post: Stats as Facts is a dangerous way too compare managers. There are too many things that can influence results to make a fair judgement on the persons who try their best to make us a great team.

Good and balanced post!
Its worth remembering that cardiffs summer transfers were higher than any club bar ManU, ManCity, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham and Southampton. Puts things into perspective.

Really good and interesting post.

Next season will for sure be in championship. I can't wait to see OGS lead Ccfc to the Premiership with his own attacking and solid team. This years team was really to weak for the Premiership. IMO only Marshall, Caulker and Medel is good enough for this level. Fabio, Matts and Noone might be. Most players are not judged by their top performances, rather what their worse is. Man, Ccfc are packed with players who has no business at all in the premiership.

If the worst does happen this season then I'd favour Malky Mackay to bring Cardiff back up (hypothetically speaking.) Matches at home like Hull and Palace or away at Sunderland were so crucial but your results were awful. If Ole was brought in to improve results and keep Cardiff up then he's failed but, if there as a plan b in place, then he might get next season to bounce back at the first attempt. It's taken a few Premier League clubs more than one attempt to consolidate their position and that could apply for Cardiff too.

It all depends on whether Ole has the dressing room or not. If they're still on his side then he should stay as a new manager will also need time to get them playing his way. Chopping and changing all the time doesn't work.

Milky p18 w4 d5 l9 f 13 a 28 pts 17 ppg 0.94
Ogs p16 w3 d3 l10 f 16 a 37 pts 12 ppg 0.75

Monk p12 w4 d3 l5 f22 a17 pts 15 ppg 1.25

Looks like the novice wins hands down.

and yet you all take the pi55 out of super gary monk.

Milky p18 w4 d5 l9 f 13 a 28 pts 17 ppg 0.94
Ogs p16 w3 d3 l10 f 16 a 37 pts 12 ppg 0.75

Monk p12 w4 d3 l5 f22 a17 pts 15 ppg 1.25

Looks like the novice wins hands down.

and yet you all take the pi55 out of super gary monk.

Would you credit the amazing man management and tactical class of the Monk, or did Laudrups players do the job?

Milky p18 w4 d5 l9 f 13 a 28 pts 17 ppg 0.94
Ogs p16 w3 d3 l10 f 16 a 37 pts 12 ppg 0.75

Monk p12 w4 d3 l5 f22 a17 pts 15 ppg 1.25

Looks like the novice wins hands down.

and yet you all take the pi55 out of super gary monk.

Would you credit the amazing man management and tactical class of the Monk, or did Laudrups players do the job?

Man management and tactical class. Laudrup had those players this year too, yet he allowed a solit in the side and barely spoke to the players let alone man manage them - he also coudnt manage the return monk is getting from this group of players.

Laudrup 1 point per game
Monk 1.25 points per game

Milky p18 w4 d5 l9 f 13 a 28 pts 17 ppg 0.94
Ogs p16 w3 d3 l10 f 16 a 37 pts 12 ppg 0.75

Monk p12 w4 d3 l5 f22 a17 pts 15 ppg 1.25

Looks like the novice wins hands down.

and yet you all take the pi55 out of super gary monk.

Would you credit the amazing man management and tactical class of the Monk, or did Laudrups players do the job?

Man management and tactical class. Laudrup had those players this year too, yet he allowed a solit in the side and barely spoke to the players let alone man manage them - he also coudnt manage the return monk is getting from this group of players.

Laudrup 1 point per game
Monk 1.25 points per game

So the Monk takes credit for jacks season then?

For the time he has been manager yes, of course.

For the time he has been manager yes, of course.

Cheers

Malky's hair fell out quicker than Ole's
Ole has a full set of hair and Malky doesn't.

Ole in

All I will say is if Malky or Ole were today applying for a managers job, I 100% reckon Malky would get the job before Ole every time without a doubt.

Tan missed a trick here - he should have got OGS to work with MM - THEN WE WOULD ALL BE HAPPY

Wasn't there an opinion that in the first half of the season we played most of the big clubs at home ? ....so not so much chance to pick up home wins had they been lower table clubs at home ?....so it could be said in Malky's reign he had the tougher home fixtures ?

ignoring the fact that some regarded Malky's teams as boring, would Malky's team lost at home heavily to Stoke, Hull, and Palace ? I think not.
The points (even just 5 points) from those games would have made us safe.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer’s job will not be under threat if Cardiff lose their Premier League status.

The Bluebirds ’ hopes of avoiding the drop suffered a heavy blow in their 4-0 defeat at Sunderland on Sunday.

The Norwegian has taken just 12 points from 16 games at the helm, while questions have been raised over his January signings and constant tinkering with the starting line-up.

But a club source said: “There is no question the club want Ole to continue as manager next season, whatever the outcome of this relegation battle.

“He has had little time to make his mark having been brought in with the club in a mess.

“He deserves the chance to develop his long-term plans.”



http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/ ... z30JqmHcRG

FACT: Mackay won the games that we had to win at home.

Under Mackay we only played 2 games at home to sides that we were competing with (Bottom half) in the league and both of these were won (West Brom and Swansea). Under Ole we have only beat 2 out of the other 7 and been humiliated in a couple. This shows the difference in the two managers as even though Ole plays more attractive football, Mackay got the job done and when you are in a battle for survival that is all that matters. Mackay would have definitely picked up more points in these crunch games and these points would have been the difference and would have kept us up.

FACT: Mackay won the games that we had to win at home.

Under Mackay we only played 2 games at home to sides that we were competing with (Bottom half) in the league and both of these were won (West Brom and Swansea). Under Ole we have only beat 2 out of the other 7 and been humiliated in a couple. This shows the difference in the two managers as even though Ole plays more attractive football, Mackay got the job done and when you are in a battle for survival that is all that matters. Mackay would have definitely picked up more points in these crunch games and these points would have been the difference and would have kept us up.

Newcastle were 11th when we played them

Also do home games only matter? Out of these fixtures we scored NONE and got 2 points;

West Ham
Norwich
Stoke
Aston Villa
Crystal Palace

Mackay got the job done and when you are in a battle for survival that is all that matters. .

If MM got the job done, why did we only win 4 out of 20 in 2013? Malky did not get the job done, neither has Ole.

It scares me that City fans are proud and satisfied by the job MM did in PL.

Mackay got the job done and when you are in a battle for survival that is all that matters. .

If MM got the job done, why did we only win 4 out of 20 in 2013? Malky did not get the job done, neither has Ole.

It scares me that City fans are proud and satisfied by the job MM did in PL.

The Calander year has nothing to do with anything. It is the season that counts. Malky's home games in the Premier were mainly against the top teams. Ole has had the lower teams (like what we will play in the championship) and came off a poor second in most.