FORGIVE ME FOR SPEAKING FREELY - outsider view

Forgive me for speaking freely, in fact ive received bans for such like in the past, but I just read the "we need our club back" thread. Which I agree with, however after reading it, there was a lot of excuse making and blame shifting....

Lets not beat around the bush. It is not Tans fault. It is the supporters fault.

Tan is doing what he is supposed to do. He is a businessman to acting in his own best interests after being allowed to do it by you guys.

You had a duty to follow the likes of TLG with abandoning paying your cash and you didnt. Someone like Tan judges support to his ideas via cash and not what people say on a messageboard.

Nobody really cared at the time though, it was the chance you had all been waiting for to join Swansea in the Prem regardless of what sacrifices you had to make. People pretended it was for "financial security" but now dont even care that the debt has doubled.

There was nonsense surrounding it all "next superpowe of football", "champions league", "next chelsea", "massive side" etc etc you were all just as deluded as Tan was, who I think expected to become one of the big sides by pumping £50m on players and rebranding. He failed to realise football is not like any other business and he admitted nowing nothing about football - he has learned his lesson the hard way and in my opinion will be looking to get his cash back if relegated.

The problem is though, as football fans, you will never learn. I thought you learned from the Hammam era, then the Ridsdale era and im sure it will be the same once Tan goes. You have an insatiable apetite to be seen as bigger than what you are, which is why you have the mantra of "capital, potential, attendances" - anyone who stokes that ego and delusion with similar ego and delusion pretty much gets the keys to the club.

It is not the owner that needs to change, its the mentality of your fans.

I agree with you. Fans should just simply boycott games in their droves.

Forgive me for speaking freely, in fact ive received bans for such like in the past, but I just read the "we need our club back" thread. Which I agree with, however after reading it, there was a lot of excuse making and blame shifting....

Lets not beat around the bush. It is not Tans fault. It is the supporters fault.

Tan is doing what he is supposed to do. He is a businessman to acting in his own best interests after being allowed to do it by you guys.

You had a duty to follow the likes of TLG with abandoning paying your cash and you didnt. Someone like Tan judges support to his ideas via cash and not what people say on a messageboard.

Nobody really cared at the time though, it was the chance you had all been waiting for to join Swansea in the Prem regardless of what sacrifices you had to make. People pretended it was for "financial security" but now dont even care that the debt has doubled.

There was nonsense surrounding it all "next superpowe of football", "champions league", "next chelsea", "massive side" etc etc you were all just as deluded as Tan was, who I think expected to become one of the big sides by pumping £50m on players and rebranding. He failed to realise football is not like any other business and he admitted nowing nothing about football - he has learned his lesson the hard way and in my opinion will be looking to get his cash back if relegated.

The problem is though, as football fans, you will never learn. I thought you learned from the Hammam era, then the Ridsdale era and im sure it will be the same once Tan goes. You have an insatiable apetite to be seen as bigger than what you are, which is why you have the mantra of "capital, potential, attendances" - anyone who stokes that ego and delusion with similar ego and delusion pretty much gets the keys to the club.

It is not the owner that needs to change, its the mentality of your fans.

Spot on

LMAO

a Swansea fan on a Cardiff forum suggests that Cardiff fans should stop supporting their club.

thumbs up...........

ITS EVERY SWANSEA FANS DREAM TO BE THE BIGGEST CLUB IN WALES.....DUH

a Swansea fan on a Cardiff forum suggests that Cardiff fans should stop supporting their club.

Not at all, far from it. Sometimes to support your club you have to boycott the people in charge in one way or another. In this instance it seems clear a vote with feet would be the best action as it would not only hit him, in the pocket but embarrass him. TLG has showed the ultimate support to club he loves - yet got abuse.

If your family member was a heroin addict (insert swansea joke here) - would it be more beneficial to him to cut his supply and try and change him back or keep feeding him what he needs to continue to kill himself while acting like its all going to be great?

(Notice ive deleted the nonsense from your post which only highlighted the exact thing I just said. "Biggest club in wales" etc - just nonsense really and a reason why you accept and welcome these owners so readily)

Last edited by Ole! on Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

LMAO

a Swansea fan on a Cardiff forum suggests that Cardiff fans should stop supporting their club.

thumbs up...........

ITS EVERY SWANSEA FANS DREAM TO BE THE BIGGEST CLUB IN WALES.....DUH

This is not our club. Its Tan's. The sooner fans realised that the better.

If you're going to be condescending, spell appetite correctly please.
You have moved to Australia, presumably you made this move because you believed that it would bring you rewards both financially and in terms of your lifestyle. As with all such decisions there are less positive consequences to your actions such as not being able to support your local football club. Nobody is criticising you for making that decision, you must do what is right for you and your personal circumstances.
However, to suggest that the majority of Cardiff City supporters should stop going to matches is the correct action is total tosh. If we stopped going what would be the consequences?
Most of us work hard all week, we enjoy watching football, we enjoy the banter, we enjoy socialising with friends, many of whom I have known for over 45 years. If I felt this experience was not worth the expense or time, I would make the necessary decision. I really don't need anybody's advice, particularly the advice from a Swansea fan who only watches football from an armchair.
I go to games in the wind, rain, snow and sunshine to support my team Cardiff City and I hope to do so for a long time yet.
Interesting that your champion on this thread has also abandoned his club.

I agree with you. Fans should just simply boycott games in their droves.

I've been boycotting since 2006

Who says we were going to be the next Chelsea?

We are RED. We are the next MAN UTD.

Just thought I'd clarify

If you're going to be condescending, spell appetite correctly please.
You have moved to Australia, presumably you made this move because you believed that it would bring you rewards both financially and in terms of your lifestyle. As with all such decisions there are less positive consequences to your actions such as not being able to support your local football club. Nobody is criticising you for making that decision, you must do what is right for you and your personal circumstances.
However, to suggest that the majority of Cardiff City supporters should stop going to matches is the correct action is total tosh. If we stopped going what would be the consequences?
Most of us work hard all week, we enjoy watching football, we enjoy the banter, we enjoy socialising with friends, many of whom I have known for over 45 years. If I felt this experience was not worth the expense or time, I would make the necessary decision. I really don't need anybody's advice, particularly the advice from a Swansea fan who only watches football from an armchair.
I go to games in the wind, rain, snow and sunshine to support my team Cardiff City and I hope to do so for a long time yet.
Interesting that your champion on this thread has also abandoned his club.

Martyn, by all means you may join in the conversation but less of the nonsense. I read your first line and stopped, if you have made some decent points after your little outburst then its a shame for the thread.

If you wish to restructure it so it is more like an adult conversation and not a petulant child then id be more than willing to discuss any points raised.

Who says we were going to be the next Chelsea?

We are RED. We are the next MAN UTD.

Just thought I'd clarify

I think it was CityGent that uttered that immortal line. However im sure he's deleted it by now

a Swansea fan on a Cardiff forum suggests that Cardiff fans should stop supporting their club.

Not at all, far from it. Sometimes to support your club you have to boycott the people in charge in one way or another. In this instance it seems clear a vote with feet would be the best action as it would not only hit him, in the pocket but embarrass him. TLG has showed the ultimate support to club he loves - yet got abuse.

If your family member was a heroin addict (insert swansea joke here) - would it be more beneficial to him to cut his supply and try and change him back or keep feeding him what he needs to continue to kill himself while acting like its all going to be great?

(Notice ive deleted the nonsense from your post which only highlighted the exact thing I just said. "Biggest club in wales" etc - just nonsense really and a reason why you accept and welcome these owners so readily)

I don't think you find many families cutting off loved ones who are heroine addicts, you will find that most do all they can to help them to deal with it, usually this means giving them money, then having money stolen from them but finding excuses to forgive them for it. Only when they feel have they done everything possible to support them do they reach the end of their thether and finally take the ultimate decision to wash their hands of them. Exactly what we are going through now, we gave Tan an opportunity, reluctantly supported his decisions in the hope that his ways may change at some point and no doubt at some point for most enough will be enough and they will wash their hands of him.

It is obvious to me that Tan main targets are businessmen who he believes are attracted to the red.

Since the rebrand I have been on the edge of throwing the towel in. However I just feel this is exactly what Tan wants and that is to get rid of any element of blue support.

No I think I will ahng around and become that leech that Tan just does not want.

I respect TLG for what he did and thats how he felt he was demonstrating, but there was never ever going to be enough TLG's walking away as the new type of fan(and I dont mean new fans, as we were all one once) and the glory hunter who wanted Premier Football at all costs, outnumbered the fans who care about our identity,pride and passion for our club by at least 5/1.

For every fan that would of walked this season, a red fan would of taken our seat.

So I and many others did our demonstrations by turning up in BLUE,singing BLUE songs,having meetings(7 in total) and going to the press/forums/fbs which has proved very successful as from a stadium which had become 80% red after the Brighton game its now 80% BLUE and away we are 99% BLUE and our fans have kept our identity well and truly alive. At the same time a lot of the fans who went red have now gone BLUE.

We put up with the bullying by some of the so called Red brigade and have shown, dignity, pride & passion will win in the end


We have let Tan know we wont be Dictated to.

By the way we were never ever red or dead.

" WE ARE CARDIFF CITY WE WILL ALWAYS BE BLUE "

I respect TLG for what he did and thats how he felt he was demonstrating, but there was never ever going to be enough TLG's walking away as the new type of fan(and I dont mean new fans, as we were all one once) and the glory hunter who wanted Premier Football at all costs, outnumbered the fans who care about our identity,pride and passion for our club by at least 5/1.

For every fan that would of walked this season, a red fan would of taken our seat.

So I and many others did our demonstrations by turning up in BLUE,singing BLUE songs,having meetings(7 in total) and going to the press/forums/fbs which has proved very successful as from a stadium which had become 80% red after the Brighton game its now 80% BLUE and away we are 99% BLUE and our fans have kept our identity well and truly alive. At the same time a lot of the fans who went red have now gone BLUE.

We put up with the bullying by some of the so called Red brigade and have shown, dignity,pride & passion will win in the end


We have let Tan know we wont be Dictated to.

By the way we were never ever red or dead.

" WE ARE CARDIFF CITY WE WILL ALWAYS BE BLUE "

I agree with that, this season is too late to boycott because you would have been replaced. This is just backing up what I was saying at the time in the Championship, it should have been nipped in the bud and you would not have been replaced. Likewise it will be the case if you get relegated, it is these weak points where you have to seize back the initiative instead of getting hooked on promises and self hype.

There are a few supporters who did their bit, you and chuckles are definitely in that bracket. However in Tans mind you were still going and supporting his creation in the pitch so it didn't matter what you thought.

The problem you face is, every year this red remains makes it harder and harder to change back. It will become institutionalised soon and to a lot of the new fans, red is all they know. To change back to blue after 10 years of red and it will be like another rebrand and thats the sad thing.

Things need to be done ASAP, i just cant help feel it looks all too placid and tolerant due to being in the prem and playing the big guns. If the boycott isnt ideal then week in week out should be hell for Tan without fail. it seems Malky Mackays sacking created more uproar than the changing of your identity, its crazy,

But I also agree you were never "red or dead" spot on

I respect TLG for what he did and thats how he felt he was demonstrating, but there was never ever going to be enough TLG's walking away as the new type of fan(and I dont mean new fans, as we were all one once) and the glory hunter who wanted Premier Football at all costs, outnumbered the fans who care about our identity,pride and passion for our club by at least 5/1.

For every fan that would of walked this season, a red fan would of taken our seat.

So I and many others did our demonstrations by turning up in BLUE,singing BLUE songs,having meetings(7 in total) and going to the press/forums/fbs which has proved very successful as from a stadium which had become 80% red after the Brighton game its now 80% BLUE and away we are 99% BLUE and our fans have kept our identity well and truly alive. At the same time a lot of the fans who went red have now gone BLUE.

We put up with the bullying by some of the so called Red brigade and have shown, dignity, pride & passion will win in the end

For me Annis and I suspect many others, it was not just about the promise of Premiership football. If Tan had walked away, most feared that the club would collapse under the debt and financial burden. Just remember, that when Tan paid off HMRC we were moments away from the high court. It was obvious that all the Directors were unwilling to put any more money in. We were not financially viable, had no interest from other investors and in my opinion would have sold all players worth anything and dropped two divisions. No one wanted that and the rebrand was more palatable to that. Premiership football was delivered and a bonus. We now realise of course, the full horror of accepting that rebrand! The life and pride has been sucked out of the support. However, given the circumstances again, I would still have taken the Tan option as without his money the consequences are still unthinkable. I still also think that we will return to blue at some point with a new owner or with Tan

For me Annis and I suspect many others, it was not just about the promise of Premiership football. If Tan had walked away, most feared that the club would collapse under the debt and financial burden. Just remember, that when Tan paid off HMRC we were moments away from the high court. It was obvious that all the Directors were unwilling to put any more money in. We were not financially viable, had no interest from other investors and in my opinion would have sold all players worth anything and dropped two divisions. No one wanted that and the rebrand was more palatable to that. Premiership football was delivered and a bonus. We now realise of course, the full horror of accepting that rebrand! The life and pride has been sucked out of the support. However, given the circumstances again, I would still have taken the Tan option as without his money the consequences are still unthinkable. I still also think that we will return to blue at some point with a new owner or with Tan

Why is dropping two divisions so "unthinkable" though?

Wouldn't you prefer to do that and start again, no debt and build slowly within your means?

So many fans are total hypocrites though and scream for Tans removal but at the same time require money for players and want him to turn debt into equity….then he can f**k off! It's laughable sometimes and just shows how fickle football is these days.

So many fans are total hypocrites though and scream for Tans removal but at the same time require money for players and want him to turn debt into equity….then he can f**k off! It's laughable sometimes and just shows how fickle football is these days.

To a certain degree that is being clever.

Let Tan pour his money into the club, secure and make us established then lets be rude to him so he sells up and someone comes in turns us back to blue. Sorted.

So many fans are total hypocrites though and scream for Tans removal but at the same time require money for players and want him to turn debt into equity….then he can f**k off! It's laughable sometimes and just shows how fickle football is these days.

To a certain degree that is being clever.

Let Tan pour his money into the club, secure and make us established then lets be rude to him so he sells up and someone comes in turns us back to blue. Sorted.

Its not HIS money though, thats what you guys heed to realise. Its yours.

So many fans are total hypocrites though and scream for Tans removal but at the same time require money for players and want him to turn debt into equity….then he can f**k off! It's laughable sometimes and just shows how fickle football is these days.

To a certain degree that is being clever.

Let Tan pour his money into the club, secure and make us established then lets be rude to him so he sells up and someone comes in turns us back to blue. Sorted.

Its not HIS money though, thats what you guys heed to realise. Its yours.

I don't recall putting £100 million into the club.

I don't recall putting £100 million into the club.

really Ian? lets keep this sensible shall we?

It is the clubs money not Tans. If your family member used your credit card to spend lavishly then it wouldnt be his/her money, you would be liable for it. Same here.

Tan is the clubs credit card and he is spending wildly. To think thats his personal money and his gift to the club is naive.

A chairman is there to decide the best way to spend the money the club earns. Not to spend money the club doesnt have in its name.

I don't recall putting £100 million into the club.

really Ian? lets keep this sensible shall we?

It is the clubs money not Tans. If your family member used your credit card to spend lavishly then it wouldnt be his/her money, you would be liable for it. Same here.

Tan is the clubs credit card and he is spending wildly. To think thats his personal money and his gift to the club is naive.

A chairman is there to decide the best way to spend the money the club earns. Not to spend money the club doesnt have in its name.

Well if he is a man of his word then soon this money will come equity under the share scheme.

Well if he is a man of his word then soon this money will come equity under the share scheme.

Have you ever seen a quote from him saying this is what he will do? And for how much? I haven't - ever.

It makes no sense for him to do it. Think about it.

Partial debt to equity then sure, at going rate. i mean hes already done it for "fantasy money" in terms of the interest. If he is in it for the money, which we all agree he is - then why chuck tens upon tens of millions away for nothing?

What does he gain from turning the full debt to equity when he can get full equity for maybe not even half of what hes owed? Makes no sense. And the more is spent the more unlikely it becomes.

For me Annis and I suspect many others, it was not just about the promise of Premiership football. If Tan had walked away, most feared that the club would collapse under the debt and financial burden. Just remember, that when Tan paid off HMRC we were moments away from the high court. It was obvious that all the Directors were unwilling to put any more money in. We were not financially viable, had no interest from other investors and in my opinion would have sold all players worth anything and dropped two divisions. No one wanted that and the rebrand was more palatable to that. Premiership football was delivered and a bonus. We now realise of course, the full horror of accepting that rebrand! The life and pride has been sucked out of the support. However, given the circumstances again, I would still have taken the Tan option as without his money the consequences are still unthinkable. I still also think that we will return to blue at some point with a new owner or with Tan

Why is dropping two divisions so "unthinkable" though?

Wouldn't you prefer to do that and start again, no debt and build slowly within your means?

What like Portsmouth, Leeds, Coventry, the Sheffield clubs etc, etc. yes, given the option, I would take the rebrand option. Clubs don't just drop down a couple of divisions and magic away the debt, it takes years of struggle and pain to get back to where they once were. I firmly believe that we will be back in blue at some stage as there is patently no business sense to keeping us Red, either Tan will finally admit that or a new owner will. It is just a matter of how long that takes
And you can count on one thing, when that happens we will be stronger and more unified than ever

outsider view

your like the forum damp!

If you're going to be condescending, spell appetite correctly please.
You have moved to Australia, presumably you made this move because you believed that it would bring you rewards both financially and in terms of your lifestyle. As with all such decisions there are less positive consequences to your actions such as not being able to support your local football club. Nobody is criticising you for making that decision, you must do what is right for you and your personal circumstances.
However, to suggest that the majority of Cardiff City supporters should stop going to matches is the correct action is total tosh. If we stopped going what would be the consequences?
Most of us work hard all week, we enjoy watching football, we enjoy the banter, we enjoy socialising with friends, many of whom I have known for over 45 years. If I felt this experience was not worth the expense or time, I would make the necessary decision. I really don't need anybody's advice, particularly the advice from a Swansea fan who only watches football from an armchair.
I go to games in the wind, rain, snow and sunshine to support my team Cardiff City and I hope to do so for a long time yet.
Interesting that your champion on this thread has also abandoned his club.

This ^^^^ I'll only stop going when I'm too old/frail/ill to go.

Well if he is a man of his word then soon this money will come equity under the share scheme.

Have you ever seen a quote from him saying this is what he will do? And for how much? I haven't - ever.

It makes no sense for him to do it. Think about it.

Partial debt to equity then sure, at going rate. i mean hes already done it for "fantasy money" in terms of the interest. If he is in it for the money, which we all agree he is - then why chuck tens upon tens of millions away for nothing?

What does he gain from turning the full debt to equity when he can get full equity for maybe not even half of what hes owed? Makes no sense. And the more is spent the more unlikely it becomes.

Not from him directly but when you listen to some people it is a forgone conclusion.

The same people who have gone very quiet on the subject. No prizes for guessing who.

Good points made. But surely scumsea fans should have boycotted the club when it screwed its creditors (local business people, schools. council tax payers etc). But no, you chose to take advantage of their problems (not once, but twice) to better your club's position.
Then received hand outs from the local council, play in a council owned rugby ground with **** facilities, while preaching to everyone else how well a run club you are.
Huw the spew has a record of doing the same in his own business life. So did he get the idea from the club, or did the club get the idea from him?
Either way, both have got a good income from going bankrupt, and then relying on the local council and taxpayers to sort it our for them.

LMAO

a Swansea fan on a Cardiff forum suggests that Cardiff fans should stop supporting their club.

thumbs up...........

ITS EVERY SWANSEA FANS DREAM TO BE THE BIGGEST CLUB IN WALES.....DUH

This is not our club. Its Tan's. The sooner fans realised that the better.

id have thought...so when its ever said...supporting their club...the meaning is..the club they choose to follow...or the club they own...duh///////////////go mature eh