Bullied, intimidated, whatever you want to call it

Dave Sugarman aside theres not one Cardiff fan can truly say they tried to oppose Tan.

Even Annis and Carl in the wake of Tan threatening to pull the plug asked everyone to calm down.

BU for all their martyrdom were a year too late.

Gwyns now changed his stance. 2 years too late.

TLG aside we all sucked it up. Hes not my kind of fella we are very different but hes the only well known
supporter who went with his principles.

Others claim they did but they didnt. Lets be honest.

In the wake of this madness only TLG can be truly vindicated.

*ahem*

Are the Jacks right wen they say after their promotion and succesful first season we had to get there no matter what the cost!

We can deny it but heart ofbhearts they may have a point.

If they were still in the dungeon would we have opposed the rebrand more head on?

Are the Jacks right wen they say after their promotion and succesful first season we had to get there no matter what the cost!

We can deny it but heart ofbhearts they may have a point.

If they were still in the dungeon would we have opposed the rebrand more head on?

I think it was to promotion at all costs. Tan wanted cardiff to be wales's no1 and to make us look pretty for Chinese investors.

Are the Jacks right wen they say after their promotion and succesful first season we had to get there no matter what the cost!

We can deny it but heart ofbhearts they may have a point.

If they were still in the dungeon would we have opposed the rebrand more head on?

I think it was to promotion at all costs. Tan wanted cardiff to be wales's no1 and to make us look pretty for Chinese investors.

Regardless of what he wanted what did we want?

Plenty of calls for him out now but what was done at the time?


Sweet FA if we are honest

Are the Jacks right wen they say after their promotion and succesful first season we had to get there no matter what the cost!

We can deny it but heart ofbhearts they may have a point.

If they were still in the dungeon would we have opposed the rebrand more head on?

I think it was to promotion at all costs. Tan wanted cardiff to be wales's no1 and to make us look pretty for Chinese investors.

Regardless of what he wanted what did we want?

Plenty of calls for him out now but what was done at the time?


Sweet FA if we are honest

To me, buying a football club seems to be a "hobby". I don't know why but, apart from advertising their businesses, its like they buy any club and try to get them to win as much silverware as other clubs with foreign owners.

I don't know why, but it's like its a rich mans game (ownership part)

So the elusive Canton Magic and now the better know Roath Magic was correct all along and indeed was not a "wind up merchant" after all but someone trying to show others that couldn't see the wood for the trees. In the face of all the abuse as a result of such fore sight - you are all forgiven

So the elusive Canton Magic and now the better know Roath Magic was correct all along and indeed was not a "wind up merchant" after all but someone trying to show others that couldn't see the wood for the trees. In the face of all the abuse as a result of such fore sight - you are all forgiven

Now now roathie, this is just a theory. No evidence.

Dave Sugarman aside theres not one Cardiff fan can truly say they tried to oppose Tan.

Even Annis and Carl in the wake of Tan threatening to pull the plug asked everyone to calm down.

BU for all their martyrdom were a year too late.

Gwyns now changed his stance. 2 years too late.

TLG aside we all sucked it up. Hes not my kind of fella we are very different but hes the only well known
supporter who went with his principles.

Others claim they did but they didnt. Lets be honest.

In the wake of this madness only TLG can be truly vindicated.

I would say there are a number of TLGs amongst us but all but Dave were not as well known.

Whats happening now is what most long time standing fans have waited for. Most wanted Tan to spend his money on getting us where we are now rhen when the time was right would turn against him. Tan has given us the opportunity to do that now.

Sucking up you say. Well lets just say Tan sells out and the new guy returns us to blue. I think the perception will be that we have been clever about it specially if we have a new manager who establishes us in the premier playing good football.

If all this happens then the big thanks can go to the likes of BU and those of us who stuck up for the blue in one way or the other.

Disagree with the op as I don't think it's too late . Tan has such a huge ego that if it's really made obvious by the fans that he is not wanted, I believe he will sell up, hasn't he already stated this previously ??

If you want to know my view, it is this. Think about it - not a wind up.

I think you were the victim of a footballing parasitic attack sporned by many factors all coming together at once which ended up in a very expensive game of "keeping up with the Jones' ". Im not entirely convinced your club was chosen at random. I think your club was carefully chosen at the correct specific time where your fans were at their weakest and you were more than a willing host.

A phrase I coined under "Canton Magic" was "Sams disease" - this started when Sam came along. Sam was the bacteria that sporned the disease which spread like wildfire. He came and promised the world and no longer were you content with what your club was - "bigger than barca" "best in wales" "capital city" "attendances" were the soundbites coming from Ninian Park trying to convince anyone and everyone, hell even eachother, that you belonged in the big time and footballing kudos was craved whether this be on or off the field - amazing for a club that hadnt been there for half a century.

Sam delivered and amongst big name signings and spending way more than the modest club can afford - Sams disease really took hold and the Championship was no longer good enough. A series of cup heartaches, near misses and play off defeats only looked to spread the infection and the insatiable and unquenchable thirst for the kudos of being one of the big clubs took a major hold.

Then Swansea came seemingly from nowhere and swiftly swept through the leagues and achieved what you craved since Sam came on the scene, over a decade of dreams. That hurt. And that was the final straw, you were now ready for the parasite.

Along came Tan, at a time where it seemed like Cardiff fans would sell their granny for a shot at the big time. The club was put on the back burner and the selfish appetites were fed. Club colours were willingly handed over, the badge, the bluebird, rumours of a potential name change - all fine as long as Tan filled the outstretched cap with a few more dollars to keep the premier league dream alive no matter the cost.

It is this that made me think it cannot be just a coincidence. Tan came in at the exact point where your fan base were infected beyond cure, it was candy from a baby and no other clubs fans would have reacted with such ease and excitement.

Stop for a moment, forget this is Roathie telling you this, and look at your fanbase. It is unrecognisable from the one before Sam.

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Sad but I would say at least 99% spot on.

Always as honest as I can be. People dont like it but its the truth.

It was already deleted once too to prove it

Anyone can pick pieces and make it into what they want to tell.

If you want to know my view, it is this. Think about it - not a wind up.

I think you were the victim of a footballing parasitic attack sporned by many factors all coming together at once which ended up in a very expensive game of "keeping up with the Jones' ". Im not entirely convinced your club was chosen at random. I think your club was carefully chosen at the correct specific time where your fans were at their weakest and you were more than a willing host.

A phrase I coined under "Canton Magic" was "Sams disease" - this started when Sam came along. Sam was the bacteria that sporned the disease which spread like wildfire. He came and promised the world and no longer were you content with what your club was - "bigger than barca" "best in wales" "capital city" "attendances" were the soundbites coming from Ninian Park trying to convince anyone and everyone, hell even eachother, that you belonged in the big time and footballing kudos was craved whether this be on or off the field - amazing for a club that hadnt been there for half a century.

Sam delivered and amongst big name signings and spending way more than the modest club can afford - Sams disease really took hold and the Championship was no longer good enough. A series of cup heartaches, near misses and play off defeats only looked to spread the infection and the insatiable and unquenchable thirst for the kudos of being one of the big clubs took a major hold.

Then Swansea came seemingly from nowhere and swiftly swept through the leagues and achieved what you craved since Sam came on the scene, over a decade of dreams. That hurt. And that was the final straw, you were now ready for the parasite.

Along came Tan, at a time where it seemed like Cardiff fans would sell their granny for a shot at the big time. The club was put on the back burner and the selfish appetites were fed. Club colours were willingly handed over, the badge, the bluebird, rumours of a potential name change - all fine as long as Tan filled the outstretched cap with a few more dollars to keep the premier league dream alive no matter the cost.

It is this that made me think it cannot be just a coincidence. Tan came in at the exact point where your fan base were infected beyond cure, it was candy from a baby and no other clubs fans would have reacted with such ease and excitement.

Stop for a moment, forget this is Roathie telling you this, and look at your fanbase. It is unrecognisable from the one before Sam.

You've missed perhaps THE most vital element in this.. THE RIDDLER!
He mortgaged future player sales, future season ticket sales and it all started coming home to roost BEFORE Tan came along. We were on the brink of extinction, losing a million a month , with nowhere to turn to save the club...Enter Malaysians stage left

I am one of the ones who didn't renew my season ticket after the rebrand however, I can understand many who's real motive for 'rolling with it' was that they believed there was no future for the club unless they took the rebrand on the chin.

Mate as in depth and insightful as your 'thesis' on your capital may seem, it is still written from a bitter jack's perspective

Anyone can pick pieces and make it into what they want to tell.

Ive said it all along though, not as if im using hindsight.

Anyone can pick pieces and make it into what they want to tell.

Exactly,I remember reading his drivel at the time and he's banking on not too many people being around from 2011 to remember which is true.

You've missed perhaps THE most vital element in this.. THE RIDDLER!
He mortgaged future player sales, future season ticket sales and it all started coming home to roost BEFORE Tan came along. We were on the brink of extinction, losing a million a month , with nowhere to turn to save the club...Enter Malaysians stage left

I am one of the ones who didn't renew my season ticket after the rebrand however, I can understand many who's real motive for 'rolling with it' was that they believed there was no future for the club unless they took the rebrand on the chin.

Mate as in depth and insightful as your 'thesis' on your capital may seem, it is still written from a bitter jack's perspective

I did leave out the Riddler - for good reason. He was an extention of Sam, he didnt do much different aoart from be guilty of the same things the fans were. Putting potential kudos above the club.

As for being "a bitter jack" i can assure you I am not, in fact quite the opposite. Im not sure what any Jack has to be botter about, you think any club would be envious of your situation right now? Especially as club in the top 10 and in Europe owned by the fans. No.

I have said my piece from the very start. Always telling you I have the ability to look beyond the rivalry. Im soeaking to you as a fan who has been through similar crooks taking a club for a ride and always posted innthe best interests of you guys. Probably to my discredit as it was seem as disingenous or as a wind up - its never been either.

You are all now rallying around and musing the different ideas I already mused for you 3 years ago - it was just deemed better to ban than to act. Not much more I can do.

Anyone can pick pieces and make it into what they want to tell.

Exactly,I remember reading his drivel at the time and he's banking on not too many people being around from 2011 to remember which is true.

Always open to criticism. Which drivel do you refer? In fact im specifically talking to the ones around in 2011. Cant really tell someone they didnt listen if they didn't hear it can I.

You know the score and you know my stance from the get go. You call it "drivel" yet its probably the stuff you have and will be posting about now.

If you want to know my view, it is this. Think about it - not a wind up.

I think you were the victim of a footballing parasitic attack sporned by many factors all coming together at once which ended up in a very expensive game of "keeping up with the Jones' ". Im not entirely convinced your club was chosen at random. I think your club was carefully chosen at the correct specific time where your fans were at their weakest and you were more than a willing host.

A phrase I coined under "Canton Magic" was "Sams disease" - this started when Sam came along. Sam was the bacteria that sporned the disease which spread like wildfire. He came and promised the world and no longer were you content with what your club was - "bigger than barca" "best in wales" "capital city" "attendances" were the soundbites coming from Ninian Park trying to convince anyone and everyone, hell even eachother, that you belonged in the big time and footballing kudos was craved whether this be on or off the field - amazing for a club that hadnt been there for half a century.

Sam delivered and amongst big name signings and spending way more than the modest club can afford - Sams disease really took hold and the Championship was no longer good enough. A series of cup heartaches, near misses and play off defeats only looked to spread the infection and the insatiable and unquenchable thirst for the kudos of being one of the big clubs took a major hold.

Then Swansea came seemingly from nowhere and swiftly swept through the leagues and achieved what you craved since Sam came on the scene, over a decade of dreams. That hurt. And that was the final straw, you were now ready for the parasite.

Along came Tan, at a time where it seemed like Cardiff fans would sell their granny for a shot at the big time. The club was put on the back burner and the selfish appetites were fed. Club colours were willingly handed over, the badge, the bluebird, rumours of a potential name change - all fine as long as Tan filled the outstretched cap with a few more dollars to keep the premier league dream alive no matter the cost.

It is this that made me think it cannot be just a coincidence. Tan came in at the exact point where your fan base were infected beyond cure, it was candy from a baby and no other clubs fans would have reacted with such ease and excitement.

Stop for a moment, forget this is Roathie telling you this, and look at your fanbase. It is unrecognisable from the one before Sam.

Fire and passion - by far the most cringeworthy thing on any uk football badge

Malky out.....Vincent out......step up Sam!! Possible?

You've missed perhaps THE most vital element in this.. THE RIDDLER!
He mortgaged future player sales, future season ticket sales and it all started coming home to roost BEFORE Tan came along. We were on the brink of extinction, losing a million a month , with nowhere to turn to save the club...Enter Malaysians stage left

I am one of the ones who didn't renew my season ticket after the rebrand however, I can understand many who's real motive for 'rolling with it' was that they believed there was no future for the club unless they took the rebrand on the chin.

Mate as in depth and insightful as your 'thesis' on your capital may seem, it is still written from a bitter jack's perspective

I did leave out the Riddler - for good reason. He was an extention of Sam, he didnt do much different aoart from be guilty of the same things the fans were. Putting potential kudos above the club.


As for being "a bitter jack" i can assure you I am not, in fact quite the opposite. Im not sure what any Jack has to be botter about, you think any club would be envious of your situation right now? Especially as club in the top 10 and in Europe owned by the fans. No.

I have said my piece from the very start. Always telling you I have the ability to look beyond the rivalry. Im soeaking to you as a fan who has been through similar crooks taking a club for a ride and always posted innthe best interests of you guys. Probably to my discredit as it was seem as disingenous or as a wind up - its never been either.

You are all now rallying around and musing the different ideas I already mused for you 3 years ago - it was just deemed better to ban than to act. Not much more I can do.

Nothing for the fans to be 'guilty' of friend. Are your fans responsible for Petty?
Should you personally be responsible for your club going into administration? Twice?
Hammam IMO raped our club giving us a huge financial headache going into the Riddler era which then nearly ended the club. The mistake you are making is allowing you hatred if your capital to cloud your judgement when talking about ccfc's 'potential'. It appears that all this 'interest' you show in us stems from Hammam going overboard with how big he thought we could be. The potential has always been there for this club given the catchment area and historical support (50s and 60s getting 50 and 60 k attendances) though trying to reignite half that support would have been an achievement given what we had become. You actually think we, as fans are responsible for what Sam said.
It's a remarkable achievement that the club sell out 28k every home game despite losing how ever many thousand loyal fans from the rebrand but no city fan would ever say we could get 60 k if we had the capacity!

You my friend have way too much time on your hands, trying to dissect everything going on at your capitals football club

If you want to know my view, it is this. Think about it - not a wind up.

I think you were the victim of a footballing parasitic attack sporned by many factors all coming together at once which ended up in a very expensive game of "keeping up with the Jones' ". Im not entirely convinced your club was chosen at random. I think your club was carefully chosen at the correct specific time where your fans were at their weakest and you were more than a willing host.

A phrase I coined under "Canton Magic" was "Sams disease" - this started when Sam came along. Sam was the bacteria that sporned the disease which spread like wildfire. He came and promised the world and no longer were you content with what your club was - "bigger than barca" "best in wales" "capital city" "attendances" were the soundbites coming from Ninian Park trying to convince anyone and everyone, hell even eachother, that you belonged in the big time and footballing kudos was craved whether this be on or off the field - amazing for a club that hadnt been there for half a century.

Sam delivered and amongst big name signings and spending way more than the modest club can afford - Sams disease really took hold and the Championship was no longer good enough. A series of cup heartaches, near misses and play off defeats only looked to spread the infection and the insatiable and unquenchable thirst for the kudos of being one of the big clubs took a major hold.

Then Swansea came seemingly from nowhere and swiftly swept through the leagues and achieved what you craved since Sam came on the scene, over a decade of dreams. That hurt. And that was the final straw, you were now ready for the parasite.

Along came Tan, at a time where it seemed like Cardiff fans would sell their granny for a shot at the big time. The club was put on the back burner and the selfish appetites were fed. Club colours were willingly handed over, the badge, the bluebird, rumours of a potential name change - all fine as long as Tan filled the outstretched cap with a few more dollars to keep the premier league dream alive no matter the cost.

It is this that made me think it cannot be just a coincidence. Tan came in at the exact point where your fan base were infected beyond cure, it was candy from a baby and no other clubs fans would have reacted with such ease and excitement.

Stop for a moment, forget this is Roathie telling you this, and look at your fanbase. It is unrecognisable from the one before Sam.

Fire and passion - by far the most cringeworthy thing on any uk football badge

It's f*cking embarrassing mate

are we having this f*cking thread AGAIN?! It's been 18months and still the exact same discussion.

Most shit owners historically in football do not pump shit loads of cash into dying clubs yet Cardiff found a shit owner willing to do that. He also became a wanker after he'd leveled substantial amounts of money into the club making it harder to move him.

That's why there's was trepedation about what exactly to do.

Most dick owners asset strip or stop putting money in etc. Tan hasn't done that.

Beyond that everyone has their own reasons for still going and I'm not going to assume the reasons everyone still goes to football. Why this has come up because Tan is now being a dickhead in public again (because he has such good PR normally) is amazing. Tan should have sacked Malky 6 weeks ago if he knew he didn't want him, this playing out in public is the only actual negative.

If you want to know my view, it is this. Think about it - not a wind up.

I think you were the victim of a footballing parasitic attack sporned by many factors all coming together at once which ended up in a very expensive game of "keeping up with the Jones' ". Im not entirely convinced your club was chosen at random. I think your club was carefully chosen at the correct specific time where your fans were at their weakest and you were more than a willing host.

A phrase I coined under "Canton Magic" was "Sams disease" - this started when Sam came along. Sam was the bacteria that sporned the disease which spread like wildfire. He came and promised the world and no longer were you content with what your club was - "bigger than barca" "best in wales" "capital city" "attendances" were the soundbites coming from Ninian Park trying to convince anyone and everyone, hell even eachother, that you belonged in the big time and footballing kudos was craved whether this be on or off the field - amazing for a club that hadnt been there for half a century.

Sam delivered and amongst big name signings and spending way more than the modest club can afford - Sams disease really took hold and the Championship was no longer good enough. A series of cup heartaches, near misses and play off defeats only looked to spread the infection and the insatiable and unquenchable thirst for the kudos of being one of the big clubs took a major hold.

Then Swansea came seemingly from nowhere and swiftly swept through the leagues and achieved what you craved since Sam came on the scene, over a decade of dreams. That hurt. And that was the final straw, you were now ready for the parasite.

Along came Tan, at a time where it seemed like Cardiff fans would sell their granny for a shot at the big time. The club was put on the back burner and the selfish appetites were fed. Club colours were willingly handed over, the badge, the bluebird, rumours of a potential name change - all fine as long as Tan filled the outstretched cap with a few more dollars to keep the premier league dream alive no matter the cost.

It is this that made me think it cannot be just a coincidence. Tan came in at the exact point where your fan base were infected beyond cure, it was candy from a baby and no other clubs fans would have reacted with such ease and excitement.

Stop for a moment, forget this is Roathie telling you this, and look at your fanbase. It is unrecognisable from the one before Sam.

Fire and passion - by far the most cringeworthy thing on any uk football badge

You've missed perhaps THE most vital element in this.. THE RIDDLER!
He mortgaged future player sales, future season ticket sales and it all started coming home to roost BEFORE Tan came along. We were on the brink of extinction, losing a million a month , with nowhere to turn to save the club...Enter Malaysians stage left

I am one of the ones who didn't renew my season ticket after the rebrand however, I can understand many who's real motive for 'rolling with it' was that they believed there was no future for the club unless they took the rebrand on the chin.

Mate as in depth and insightful as your 'thesis' on your capital may seem, it is still written from a bitter jack's perspective

I did leave out the Riddler - for good reason. He was an extention of Sam, he didnt do much different aoart from be guilty of the same things the fans were. Putting potential kudos above the club.


As for being "a bitter jack" i can assure you I am not, in fact quite the opposite. Im not sure what any Jack has to be botter about, you think any club would be envious of your situation right now? Especially as club in the top 10 and in Europe owned by the fans. No.

I have said my piece from the very start. Always telling you I have the ability to look beyond the rivalry. Im soeaking to you as a fan who has been through similar crooks taking a club for a ride and always posted innthe best interests of you guys. Probably to my discredit as it was seem as disingenous or as a wind up - its never been either.

You are all now rallying around and musing the different ideas I already mused for you 3 years ago - it was just deemed better to ban than to act. Not much more I can do.

Nothing for the fans to be 'guilty' of friend. Are your fans responsible for Petty?

what? when petty took over we forced him out. You guys watched on with applause.

Should you personally be responsible for your club going into administration? Twice?

nope. Where have I suggested the opposite?

Hammam IMO raped our club giving us a huge financial headache going into the Riddler era which then nearly ended the club. The mistake you are making is allowing you hatred if your capital to cloud your judgement when talking about ccfc's 'potential'.

i have no hate for you. This is the type of nonsense im talking about - someone doesnt think we are big so instead of it being the truth they must hate us. cardiff isnt my capital - i live in australia

It appears that all this 'interest' you show in us stems from Hammam going overboard with how big he thought we could be. The potential has always been there for this club given the catchment area and historical support (50s and 60s getting 50 and 60 k attendances) though trying to reignite half that support would have been an achievement given what we had become. You actually think we, as fans are responsible for what Sam said.

you clearly have no idea what I just said. I am not blaming you for Hamam at all. I, saying he is the reason you sold out so easily - he created the craving for "success".


It's a remarkable achievement that the club sell out 28k every home game despite losing how ever many thousand loyal fans from the rebrand but no city fan would ever say we could get 60 k if we had the capacity!

didnt about 25 get refunds in their season tickets?

You my friend have way too much time on your hands, trying to dissect everything going on at your capitals football club

i certainly do, thats to my credit of course - worked hard for it. Now sit and enjoy rather than creating ridiculous ripostes

I don't think Sam came in to trash the club, he just wasn't very sensible. The riddler came in to try and fix what Sam did, but couldn't because he wasn't good enough. He knew the only thing that would save us was money and found some, unfortunately that came at a big cost and I think he knew that. Fortunately for Ridsdale, that choice was put to us, the fans. Nothing was hidden, it was there in plain black and white english.

Let the rebrand happen ( colour and badge) and he'll deliver the "dream" of debt free premiership football.

Or

Stay as you are and he'll sell on and walk away.

We all know what we chose (apart from the 70 odd that gave their season tickets back)

I personally don't believe that Tan is evil and only doing this to p! $$ us off. I just think he's a spoilt brat rich boy that is not used to the word no, or not being the centre of attention at his company. He also doesn't understand why we are fighting relegation after spending multi millions on players, and why we're not beating every team because we beat man city.
He has the power to make things right and make every one happy, but he won't because I dont think the " great and powerful emperor Tan" will ever admit when he's wrong, so there's only answer.

#TANOUT

I don't think Sam came in to trash the club, he just wasn't very sensible. The riddler came in to try and fix what Sam did, but couldn't because he wasn't good enough. He knew the only thing that would save us was money and found some, unfortunately that came at a big cost and I think he knew that. Fortunately for Ridsdale, that choice was put to us, the fans. Nothing was hidden, it was there in plain black and white english.

Let the rebrand happen ( colour and badge) and he'll deliver the "dream" of debt free premiership football.

Or

Stay as you are and he'll sell on and walk away.

We all know what we chose (apart from the 70 odd that gave their season tickets back)

I personally don't believe that Tan is evil and only doing this to p! $$ us off. I just think he's a spoilt brat rich boy that is not used to the word no, or not being the centre of attention at his company. He also doesn't understand why we are fighting relegation after spending multi millions on players, and why we're not beating every team because we beat man city.
He has the power to make things right and make every one happy, but he won't because I dont think the " great and powerful emperor Tan" will ever admit when he's wrong, so there's only answer.

#TANOUT

The 'debt free ' rather than the club folding threat (doing the rounds at the time) was the reason why most tolerated the rebrand. I would say however that there were many many fans who did not renew their season tickets at the end of last season, who didn't get a refund straight after the refund but after trying to go along with it for last season ( they'd already bought their season tickets before the rebrand) , myself included. I personally know many who didn't renew (there were 8 of my group stood together in the canton but now only one left). I know we were replaced but how many if those will still be there if we were relegated whether we play in blue or red? If we were returned to blue ill be back like a shot no matter what league were in

Had some of my best times in the lower leagues. Got to be honest, have not fully enjoyed this season as I should have. It's not turned out as I dreamt it.

I posted on here not long after he took full control with all his bullshit.
Tould u that this guy is a clown and u should be careful.
However all I got was jealous c..t and how we would like a billionaire to own us.
Thing is its so easy for everyone outside your club to see whats going on but with your blue tinted glasses and the fact we had gone up uou all bought in to it desperate and blind to achive top flight football as we did.
Now your fucked, where can u turn now?.
If he stays u are going to a joke for as long as he stays and what els as he got planed, if he goes your millions in debt and with little chance off anyone buying u.