Safety point mark to be higher this year...

The race to avoid 17th i think is going to cause one of the highest points targets in Prem history.

There are only two whipping boys this year and everyone else is more than capable of picking up points. We are a 5th of the way through the season now and ALREADY this season you would need DOUBLE what you did last year to be out of the relegation zone

I think 40 points may not even do it this year a la Blackpool.

Current table (excluding todays match which sees 8points the mark needed for safety, which you have) in comparison to this point last year....

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Ohhhhh!

As long as three teams get less than us, I don't give a feck.

Why do we want to avoid 17th?

That's success really...

Why do we want to avoid 17th?

That's success really...

Avoid 18th, achieve 17th i meant.

love the fact someone just put this as a sticky, then realised it was me who posted it.

Or the 2009/10 season 7 points kept you out of the relegation zone on GD after 8 games (as it could now) and 31 points would have kept you up. Even 36 if you ignore Pompey.

Or 2008/09 when 7 points kept you out of the bottom 3 on GD after 8 games and 35 would have kept you up by the end.

You may be right. You may not. Bit early to panic, time will tell.

Or the 2009/10 season 7 points kept you out of the relegation zone on GD after 8 games (as it could now) and 31 points would have kept you up. Even 36 if you ignore Pompey.

Or 2008/09 when 7 points kept you out of the bottom 3 on GD after 8 games and 35 would have kept you up by the end.

You may be right. You may not. Bit early to panic, time will tell.

But this season its 8, higher than both your examples.

32/33 points is the tally that a bad premier league team gets (in between what Reading and Wigan achieved last year) If you take the group outside the whipping boys - Who out of them can you see only picking up those sort of points? The likes of Fulham, West Ham etc are going to amass more than 32 points i can assure you.

Or the 2009/10 season 7 points kept you out of the relegation zone on GD after 8 games (as it could now) and 31 points would have kept you up. Even 36 if you ignore Pompey.

Or 2008/09 when 7 points kept you out of the bottom 3 on GD after 8 games and 35 would have kept you up by the end.

You may be right. You may not. Bit early to panic, time will tell.

But this season its 8, higher than both your examples.

32/33 points is the tally that a bad premier league team gets (in between what Reading and Wigan achieved last year) If you take the group outside the whipping boys - Who out of them can you see only picking up those sort of points? The likes of Fulham, West Ham etc are going to amass more than 32 points i can assure you.

No, you don't need 8, you need 7 with a better goal difference. Exactly what would have done it in 2008/9 and 2009/10 where 31 and 35 points respectively would have kept you up. Even 1 point less on GD.

2010/11 and 3rd from bottom had 6 points yet 39 on GD was required to stay up. Not sure where the correlation is.

No problem with your thoughts that teams may need more than 40 points to stay up, but I don't think your comparison to last season and using capital letters to stress DOUBLE ready means much

It's going to be interesting, but I still reckon we'll stay up comfortably

Or the 2009/10 season 7 points kept you out of the relegation zone on GD after 8 games (as it could now) and 31 points would have kept you up. Even 36 if you ignore Pompey.

Or 2008/09 when 7 points kept you out of the bottom 3 on GD after 8 games and 35 would have kept you up by the end.

You may be right. You may not. Bit early to panic, time will tell.

But this season its 8, higher than both your examples.

32/33 points is the tally that a bad premier league team gets (in between what Reading and Wigan achieved last year) If you take the group outside the whipping boys - Who out of them can you see only picking up those sort of points? The likes of Fulham, West Ham etc are going to amass more than 32 points i can assure you.

No, you don't need 8, you need 7 with a better goal difference. Exactly what would have done it in 2008/9 and 2009/10 where 31 and 35 points respectively would have kept you up. Even 1 point less on GD.

2010/11 and 3rd from bottom had 6 points yet 39 on GD was required to stay up. Not sure where the correlation is.

No problem with your thoughts that teams may need more than 40 points to stay up, but I don't think your comparison to last season and using capital letters to stress DOUBLE ready means much

Ok point taken with goal difference.

It is double pretty much though. Last year you needed 5 (or 4 with better goal difference) this year you need 8 (or 7 with better goal difference). Thats a big difference and the bold was emphasising that. Its 75% more.

There cant ever be direct correlation but you can use history and what you know today to make an informed decision. I dont see any team that will only pick up what the usual relegation fodder do (32/33 points). The battle for 18th is going to be one of the hottest contested for years. None of the group are whipping boys by any means. So the target is going to be set by the lowest point tally that a team in that group gets, which could easily be above 40. Far more chance of it being 40 and upwards than 35 and below imo.

It's going to be interesting, but I still reckon we'll stay up comfortably

What do you regard as "comfortably"?

Or the 2009/10 season 7 points kept you out of the relegation zone on GD after 8 games (as it could now) and 31 points would have kept you up. Even 36 if you ignore Pompey.

Or 2008/09 when 7 points kept you out of the bottom 3 on GD after 8 games and 35 would have kept you up by the end.

You may be right. You may not. Bit early to panic, time will tell.

But this season its 8, higher than both your examples.

32/33 points is the tally that a bad premier league team gets (in between what Reading and Wigan achieved last year) If you take the group outside the whipping boys - Who out of them can you see only picking up those sort of points? The likes of Fulham, West Ham etc are going to amass more than 32 points i can assure you.

No, you don't need 8, you need 7 with a better goal difference. Exactly what would have done it in 2008/9 and 2009/10 where 31 and 35 points respectively would have kept you up. Even 1 point less on GD.

2010/11 and 3rd from bottom had 6 points yet 39 on GD was required to stay up. Not sure where the correlation is.

No problem with your thoughts that teams may need more than 40 points to stay up, but I don't think your comparison to last season and using capital letters to stress DOUBLE ready means much

Ok point taken with goal difference.

It is double pretty much though. Last year you needed 5 (or 4 with better goal difference) this year you need 8 (or 7 with better goal difference). Thats a big difference and the bold was emphasising that. Its 75% more.

There cant ever be direct correlation but you can use history and what you know today to make an informed decision. I dont see any team that will only pick up what the usual relegation fodder do (32/33 points). The battle for 18th is going to be one of the hottest contested for years. None of the group are whipping boys by any means. So the target is going to be set by the lowest point tally that a team in that group gets, which could easily be above 40. Far more chance of it being 40 and upwards than 35 and below imo.

No problem with the comparison to last season, but thats just one season. I was pointing out that other seasons have painted a similar picture to this season (7 pts for 18th place after 8 games) yet the season total required was a lot less than 40 pts.

So forgetting that, your opinion on the lack of whipping boys may well be correct and it wouldn't surprise me at all if 40 was required. For what it's worth, I don't we'll make it so there's your third relegated team

Im not so sure. I think you are favourites in my mind for that 17th spot as i can simply see the likes of West Ham and Fulham getting more points than you and you have one hell of a tough 8 weeks from Xmas time onwards where you play 6 of the top 7 i think.

The one thing you have on your side is a fighting spirit which as Wigan showed for many years is a big bonus when it comes to staying up. It will be close and you have one hell of a battle on your hands.

A battle for sure. I can honestly see a scenario where we won't get any more points until December when we play Palace but even that won't be a given.

Then again I didn't expect anything from Man City or Everton. This pesky PL is hard work for us pessimists

A battle for sure. I can honestly see a scenario where we won't get any more points until December when we play Palace but even that won't be a given.

Then again I didn't expect anything from Man City or Everton. This pesky PL is hard work for us pessimists

I think its vital you take advantage of a kinder run from now til Xmas. If you dont get "ahead of the rate" - which for my money broadly speaking is slightly more than a point a game, then you could find yourself in a whole world of trouble as you are up shit creek in terms of fixtures until February. Win more than your fair share and i think that may just turn it in your favour to allow for the quite clear possibility of a barron 6 weeks from mid jan. The next 10 weeks for you are huge, make no bones about it.

A battle for sure. I can honestly see a scenario where we won't get any more points until December when we play Palace but even that won't be a given.

Then again I didn't expect anything from Man City or Everton. This pesky PL is hard work for us pessimists

I think its vital you take advantage of a kinder run from now til Xmas. If you dont get "ahead of the rate" - which for my money broadly speaking is slightly more than a point a game, then you could find yourself in a whole world of trouble as you are up shit creek in terms of fixtures until February. Win more than your fair share and i think that may just turn it in your favour to allow for the quite clear possibility of a barron 6 weeks from mid jan. The next 10 weeks for you are huge, make no bones about it.

I'm not under any illusion. 4 more wins required (or equivalent) in 2013 to stay in the hunt, ideally 5. Won't be easy.
January is a nightmare but if we can beat the hammers then 3 points from 4 games won't be a complete disaster.

A battle for sure. I can honestly see a scenario where we won't get any more points until December when we play Palace but even that won't be a given.

Then again I didn't expect anything from Man City or Everton. This pesky PL is hard work for us pessimists

I think its vital you take advantage of a kinder run from now til Xmas. If you dont get "ahead of the rate" - which for my money broadly speaking is slightly more than a point a game, then you could find yourself in a whole world of trouble as you are up shit creek in terms of fixtures until February. Win more than your fair share and i think that may just turn it in your favour to allow for the quite clear possibility of a barron 6 weeks from mid jan. The next 10 weeks for you are huge, make no bones about it.

I'm not under any illusion. 4 more wins required (or equivalent) in 2013 to stay in the hunt, ideally 5. Won't be easy.
January is a nightmare but if we can beat the hammers then 3 points from 4 games won't be a complete disaster.

Yeah, id say you need 14-15 points in 2013 to be in the hunt.

Having a quick look at the fixtures now I give you 13-14. Its going to be almost laughably close

we are lucky in a lot of respects that we haven't ever been in a relegation scrap, it must be terrible for the nerves, but then again it keeps each game huge and exciting. The back end of last season after the cup win was dull, we couldn't really finish any higher or lower and had already qualified for europe and still had a quarter of the season to go. It was very odd. I dont think we havent been involved in a promotion or relegation battle for the last 10 years so it was a very strange feeling and quite boring if im to be honest.

A battle for sure. I can honestly see a scenario where we won't get any more points until December when we play Palace but even that won't be a given.

Then again I didn't expect anything from Man City or Everton. This pesky PL is hard work for us pessimists

I think its vital you take advantage of a kinder run from now til Xmas. If you dont get "ahead of the rate" - which for my money broadly speaking is slightly more than a point a game, then you could find yourself in a whole world of trouble as you are up shit creek in terms of fixtures until February. Win more than your fair share and i think that may just turn it in your favour to allow for the quite clear possibility of a barron 6 weeks from mid jan. The next 10 weeks for you are huge, make no bones about it.

I'm not under any illusion. 4 more wins required (or equivalent) in 2013 to stay in the hunt, ideally 5. Won't be easy.
January is a nightmare but if we can beat the hammers then 3 points from 4 games won't be a complete disaster.

Yeah, id say you need 14-15 points in 2013 to be in the hunt.

Having a quick look at the fixtures now I give you 13-14. Its going to be almost laughably close

we are lucky in a lot of respects that we haven't ever been in a relegation scrap, it must be terrible for the nerves, but then again it keeps each game huge and exciting. The back end of last season after the cup win was dull, we couldn't really finish any higher or lower and had already qualified for europe and still had a quarter of the season to go. It was very odd. I dont think we havent been involved in a promotion or relegation battle for the last 10 years so it was a very strange feeling and quite boring if im to be honest.

Ill take boring over a relegation dogfight! But then to be in it and survive will feel like a promotion in itself, especially if it comes down to the last game as it often seems to. Not going to lose any sleep over it though, if we're not good enough so be it as long as we give it everything.

The race to avoid 17th i think is going to cause one of the highest points targets in Prem history.

There are only two whipping boys this year and everyone else is more than capable of picking up points. We are a 5th of the way through the season now and ALREADY this season you would need DOUBLE what you did last year to be out of the relegation zone

I think 40 points may not even do it this year a la Blackpool.

So 6 of your points came from the two whipping boys.
Looking at your other games you have 4 points from 6...hmmm, that doesn't look very good.
So ignoring the "whipping boys" that's 0.66 points per game. Well below "relegation form".

The race to avoid 17th i think is going to cause one of the highest points targets in Prem history.

There are only two whipping boys this year and everyone else is more than capable of picking up points. We are a 5th of the way through the season now and ALREADY this season you would need DOUBLE what you did last year to be out of the relegation zone

I think 40 points may not even do it this year a la Blackpool.

So 6 of your points came from the two whipping boys.
Looking at your other games you have 4 points from 6...hmmm, that doesn't look very good.
So ignoring the "whipping boys" that's 0.66 points per game. Well below "relegation form".

4 points from 6 games that feature 5 top 6 contenders isnt a bad return at all.

Defeats against Man United, Arsenal, Tottenham, Southampton. A draw against Liverpool and a win against 12th placed WBA comfortably away is not a bad return what so ever.

If we had to play the top 6 every week then of course we would probably be relegated. Luckily for us we dont

The race to avoid 17th i think is going to cause one of the highest points targets in Prem history.

There are only two whipping boys this year and everyone else is more than capable of picking up points. We are a 5th of the way through the season now and ALREADY this season you would need DOUBLE what you did last year to be out of the relegation zone

I think 40 points may not even do it this year a la Blackpool.

So 6 of your points came from the two whipping boys.
Looking at your other games you have 4 points from 6...hmmm, that doesn't look very good.
So ignoring the "whipping boys" that's 0.66 points per game. Well below "relegation form".

4 points from 6 games that feature 5 top 6 contenders isnt a bad return at all.

Defeats against Man United, Arsenal, Tottenham, Southampton. A draw against Liverpool and a win against 12th placed WBA comfortably away is not a bad return what so ever.

If we had to play the top 6 every week then of course we would probably be relegated. Luckily for us we dont

Double standard again, you said we had relegation form and we too have had to play top teams Man City, Everton, Tottenham, Chelsea....

No it isnt. The top 6 consists of roughly a third of the teams in the league.

After 8 games you should have played 3 top 6 teams which you have, ours has been abnormally high. No idea why you are adding Everton if they finish in the top 6 ill give away my bollocks.

Your first 8 games difficulty is a fair representation of what you are to face the whole year. 3 top 6 contenders, 3 mid table teams and two relegation candidates.

We have had 5 top 6 contenders, 1 mad table team and 2 relegation candidates.

No it isnt. The top 6 consists of roughly a third of the teams in the league.

After 8 games you should have played 3 top 6 teams which you have, ours has been abnormally high. No idea why you are adding Everton if they finish in the top 6 ill give away my bollocks.

Your first 8 games difficulty is a fair representation of what you are to face the whole year. 3 top 6 contenders, 3 mid table teams and two relegation candidates.

We have had 5 top 6 contenders, 1 mad table team and 2 relegation candidates.

"No it isnt"? Lets stop the pantomime right there

You'e had 5 top 6 contenders? You're counting ManU which is fair enough but they are 8th and Everton are 7th and you dismiss Everton with an arrogant reference to your clearly unwanted bodyparts.

Your first 8 games have been skewed to the easy side because you have had the two whipping boys. You've had it far easier than most in the regard of that easy 6 points. Aside from WBA away we've essentially seen nothing from the jacks so far.

No it isnt. The top 6 consists of roughly a third of the teams in the league.

After 8 games you should have played 3 top 6 teams which you have, ours has been abnormally high. No idea why you are adding Everton if they finish in the top 6 ill give away my bollocks.

Your first 8 games difficulty is a fair representation of what you are to face the whole year. 3 top 6 contenders, 3 mid table teams and two relegation candidates.

We have had 5 top 6 contenders, 1 mad table team and 2 relegation candidates.

"No it isnt"? Lets stop the pantomime right there

what else am i supposed to say when i completely disagree with you?

You'e had 5 top 6 contenders? You're counting ManU which is fair enough but they are 8th and Everton are 7th and you dismiss Everton with an arrogant reference to your clearly unwanted bodyparts.

it doesnt matter where they are. man uniteds team is worth hundreds of millions. Everton are not anywhere near the class of Man United. They are 9th/10th team for me like we were last year. I make the reference to my bollocks as thats how confident I am in my statement. To think Everton are better than Man united because they are a place higher is ludicrous.


Your first 8 games have been skewed to the easy side because you have had the two whipping boys. You've had it far easier than most in the regard of that easy 6 points. Aside from WBA away we've essentially seen nothing from the jacks so far.

they have not been "skewed" negatively in any shape or form, in fact very much to the contrary.

As i said 5 of our 8 matches have been against top 6 contenders and we sit on 10 points. Most of our games this season are going to be against teams outside the top 6 and we have convincingly beat them all with a 8-0 aggregate. We also got a draw against 3rd place Liverpool. Defeats away at Southampton and Tottenham (1-0 to pen) and home to Arsenal and Man United is as solid a start as any sane person could expect.

You on the other hand have had a much fairer representation of the fixture spread in the premier league and are averaging a point a game.

No it isnt. The top 6 consists of roughly a third of the teams in the league.

After 8 games you should have played 3 top 6 teams which you have, ours has been abnormally high. No idea why you are adding Everton if they finish in the top 6 ill give away my bollocks.

Your first 8 games difficulty is a fair representation of what you are to face the whole year. 3 top 6 contenders, 3 mid table teams and two relegation candidates.

We have had 5 top 6 contenders, 1 mad table team and 2 relegation candidates.

"No it isnt"? Lets stop the pantomime right there

what else am i supposed to say when i completely disagree with you?

You'e had 5 top 6 contenders? You're counting ManU which is fair enough but they are 8th and Everton are 7th and you dismiss Everton with an arrogant reference to your clearly unwanted bodyparts.

it doesnt matter where they are. man uniteds team is worth hundreds of millions. Everton are not anywhere near the class of Man United. They are 9th/10th team for me like we were last year. I make the reference to my bollocks as thats how confident I am in my statement. To think Everton are better than Man united because they are a place higher is ludicrous.

I said Everton were 7th I didn't mention who I felt was the better side. Another case of your inability to read.

Your first 8 games have been skewed to the easy side because you have had the two whipping boys. You've had it far easier than most in the regard of that easy 6 points. Aside from WBA away we've essentially seen nothing from the jacks so far.

they have not been "skewed" negatively in any shape or form, in fact very much to the contrary.

As i said 5 of our 8 matches have been against top 6 contenders and we sit on 10 points. Most of our games this season are going to be against teams outside the top 6 and we have convincingly beat them all with a 8-0 aggregate. We also got a draw against 3rd place Liverpool. Defeats away at Southampton and Tottenham (1-0 to pen) and home to Arsenal and Man United is as solid a start as any sane person could expect.

You on the other hand have had a much fairer representation of the fixture spread in the premier league and are averaging a point a game.

and we have a top 6 scalp unlike you

No it isnt. The top 6 consists of roughly a third of the teams in the league.

After 8 games you should have played 3 top 6 teams which you have, ours has been abnormally high. No idea why you are adding Everton if they finish in the top 6 ill give away my bollocks.

Your first 8 games difficulty is a fair representation of what you are to face the whole year. 3 top 6 contenders, 3 mid table teams and two relegation candidates.

We have had 5 top 6 contenders, 1 mad table team and 2 relegation candidates.

"No it isnt"? Lets stop the pantomime right there

what else am i supposed to say when i completely disagree with you?

You'e had 5 top 6 contenders? You're counting ManU which is fair enough but they are 8th and Everton are 7th and you dismiss Everton with an arrogant reference to your clearly unwanted bodyparts.

it doesnt matter where they are. man uniteds team is worth hundreds of millions. Everton are not anywhere near the class of Man United. They are 9th/10th team for me like we were last year. I make the reference to my bollocks as thats how confident I am in my statement. To think Everton are better than Man united because they are a place higher is ludicrous.

I said Everton were 7th I didn't mention who I felt was the better side. Another case of your inability to read

so you were just making an irrelevant point then, forgive me for actually thinking your post actually tried to mean something

Your first 8 games have been skewed to the easy side because you have had the two whipping boys. You've had it far easier than most in the regard of that easy 6 points. Aside from WBA away we've essentially seen nothing from the jacks so far.

they have not been "skewed" negatively in any shape or form, in fact very much to the contrary.

As i said 5 of our 8 matches have been against top 6 contenders and we sit on 10 points. Most of our games this season are going to be against teams outside the top 6 and we have convincingly beat them all with a 8-0 aggregate. We also got a draw against 3rd place Liverpool. Defeats away at Southampton and Tottenham (1-0 to pen) and home to Arsenal and Man United is as solid a start as any sane person could expect.

You on the other hand have had a much fairer representation of the fixture spread in the premier league and are averaging a point a game.

and we have a top 6 scalp unlike you

meaning what exactly? Or is that just another irrelevant piece of info, dont want to make the same mistake twice so just checking...

It's going to be interesting, but I still reckon we'll stay up comfortably

What do you regard as "comfortably"?

Below mid-table but considered to be safe with about a month to go.

It's going to be interesting, but I still reckon we'll stay up comfortably

What do you regard as "comfortably"?

Below mid-table but considered to be safe with about a month to go.

How many points do you think it will take for that? Considering the safe mark looks like it is going to be high this year with a good side actually being relegated in 17th.

To be safe with a month to go is probably 48 points with 4 games in hand? Thats a huge ask.

It's going to be interesting, but I still reckon we'll stay up comfortably

What do you regard as "comfortably"?

Below mid-table but considered to be safe with about a month to go.

How many points do you think it will take for that? Considering the safe mark looks like it is going to be high this year with a good side actually being relegated in 17th.

To be safe with a month to go is probably 48 points with 4 games in hand? Thats a huge ask.

I do hope 17th doesn't get relegated this year, that would make it difficult! I can see us filling a spot between 15th and 18th