' Do they still worry you ? '

Do the finances of our club still worry you or never ever did really ?

I know I sound gloom and doom by bringing this up, but to me the future of our club is what I always think about, to me it sounds like most just care about who we are going to sign next at any cost ? I believe in reality.

When Sam was spending like a mad man, no one moaned incl me.
When the Riddler was bringing all the big names in, most did not care again,I really did then as I had realised from before.
We are doing the same under Tan, but on a much larger than ever scale. yes he has the money behind him, but it is being lent to us on interest.

Our debts under 3 different chairmen have gone from

£24 mill

£38 mill

£105 mill

Just wondering does it bother you ? honest answers please

Nope, it isnt debt until he decides he wants it back.

WE come back to the SAME thing .Will there be a conversion from debt to EQUITY ?

Do the finances of our club still worry you or never ever did really ?

I know I sound gloom and doom by bringing this up, but to me the future of our club is what I always think about, to me it sounds like most just care about who we are going to sign next at any cost ? I believe in reality.

When Sam was spending like a mad man, no one moaned incl me.
When the Riddler was bringing all the big names in, most did not care again,I really did then as I had realised from before.
We are doing the same under Tan, but on a much larger than ever scale. yes he has the money behind him, but it is being lent to us on interest.

Our debts under 3 different chairmen have gone from

£24 mill

£38 mill

£105 mill

Just wondering does it bother you ? honest answers please

That is the key. Tan has the money behind him and could cover the £105m (alledged) pretty easily. We all know that the situation would be clearer and more secure if the money he has lent us (or at least part of it) was turned to equity but, equally, we know the main reason why that hasn't happened yet.

I think the time for looking at these issues will be at the end of the season because, as you have rightly pointed out previously, we do need to strengthen the squad and that comes at more cost in fees, and wages. Whether that is the right thing to do will become clear in May when we will know what league we are playing in next season.

It's not the greatest situation to be in but, having been a supporter since 1971/72, it is the most secure I have felt with regard to our finances, but that ain't saying much

No. Not at the moment anyway. I knew the debt to equity conversion wouldn't happen overnight. Nothing is straightforward at CCFC! Just enjoying the football and being the top side in the league.

Always interested but never worried.

No - not only has VT got money, he also has nowhere to go if he wants it back.

Club and ground will be there long after Mr Tan has moved on which might well be when we get to the Premiership, though I am enjoying the time he has us.

It does worry me, I believe if we don't go up this season we are doomed, there will be no debt turned to equity, unless we get promotion, we were told the debt would be converted once Sams debt was payed off, I don't think there was any intention to settle with Sam until promotion was secure, My own opinion is, we are on the roller coaster and we cant get off, so sit back and enjoy it.

WE come back to the SAME thing .Will there be a conversion from debt to EQUITY ?

And explain to me how that helps, because as I see it, it's his debt and all that means is he transfers it to his equity, at the the end of the day all the eggs are in his basket, its his money, his debt, his club.

No it's not my debt

For those who do not know what happens at the end of each month with Cardiff City AFC'S accounts:-

1) Every effort is made to pay invoices when due within the period required, as requested on the invoice, if there is not enough income from that month, Tan or his company pay the shortfall, I am not sure who is the source, this include"s transfers, wages and expenses.

2) there does not exist a written or verbal contract to charge interest on these monies paid into the club, any interest percentage paid on these payments is pure figment of somebody's imagination, our present manager and our previous manager, has said that Tan has not taken a penny out of the club, and yet I find it amazing that people will believe Malky when it suits them on certain things, but not when it's to do with Tan.

I know that some will say"source"' but I will never give any excuses as to who the source is' because it was told to me from a position of trust' so say what you want call me what you want, don't care.

The following is purely my own opinion of our future under Tan:-

I don't think we will ever go back to being blue, as to our badge' I don't know' I don't think it will ever be anyone's cup of tea, certainly if it doesn't contain the bluebird it won't.

The fact that we now have the go ahead for the new state of the art training ground, makes me think that our future will be built on finding our own future stars, and that the cost of future transfers will be so high, some of the top clubs will go bust, and so called top players will price themselves out of the market, people say that football is a spectator sport and not a business, I think this will change, if it hasn't already

What makes a business profitable, efficient staff', efficiency in the work place, customer satisfaction incomings over out goings etc, I believe that because Tan is not or was not a football man, he will run Cardiff City AFC like a business, but not just any business, but with the rewards that is going to come in the future with the premiership, advertising on a global scale, this is why he will not make major alterations to the ground until we stay in the premiership for at least one year, the rewards from that one year will pay for any alterations, but judging by the guests we have had recently to home matches, I believe there will be massive investment from abroad, with a view to Cardiff City AFC becoming a global company, this may sound like make believe, but look what advertising has done to the world markets, the first thing he has done is put our matches on his TV station, people say we won't sell many shirts or merchandise, it's not about Cardiff City merchandise, it,s about advertising when we are playing Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea etc, think of the fans who want to see those teams, if Cardiff City become popular too, then all well and good.

I think that this may take about 15years give or take, the rewards are there now just think what it will be like in years to come especially with the recession over,this I think is Tans Dream.

Will we as fans be part of it, not as we know it now, I think we will become small share holders, each time we buy a season ticket we will get a share issue, not enough to have a baring on board decisions, but enough to feel part of the club, how we organise our selves up to us,feel we are not part of some thing, and we won't have a say in anything.

Which takes me back to the present , I think the majority on this board, are against the changes made so far, whether anybody outside of this board is that concerned I don't know, I'm not so sure they are, I certainly don't hear it being discussed in the Ninian Stand where I sit, but thats not the point, I know if and when this happens I won't be going down the City, not because I don't want to, but because now I am retired I won't be able to afford it.

I can't say it will or won't happen just my opinion, I do know I wouldn't be enjoying supporting a club run in that environment, I think in the 57 years I have been watching the city, I have had some good times, met some good mates and had some good drinking sessions, I will support the City on our way into the premiership, and as long as I can afford it.
'

I have absolutely no concerns about the Clubs finances. For the first time since I've been
watching the City, we are being run professionally. We are looking good, we are looking
like the people in charge really know what they're doing.

However, if the Bluebird goes, so do I. Unless/until Tan or somebody else brings it back

No.. It doesn't matter if we owe 30 million or 130 million, it's who we owe the money to.

We owe the money to Tan, who has rolled the dice, its his money, if it fails he loses a wad of cash, if he wins he gets a wad of money, but more importantly he gets the buzz of knowing he is a world class businessman, to succeed where loads have failed.........

Not arsed anymore me, had a tit full of it all, just watch the football now and try to enjoy it, theres nothing we can do its one mans money he owes himself unless he takes £1 out the club for the next million weeks i carnt see how hes going to get anything back untill we are sold on, as much as it hurts its what we have to deal with

For those who do not know what happens at the end of each month with Cardiff City AFC'S accounts:-

1) Every effort is made to pay invoices when due within the period required, as requested on the invoice, if there is not enough income from that month, Tan or his company pay the shortfall, I am not sure who is the source, this include"s transfers, wages and expenses.

2) there does not exist a written or verbal contract to charge interest on these monies paid into the club, any interest percentage paid on these payments is pure figment of somebody's imagination, our present manager and our previous manager, has said that Tan has not taken a penny out of the club, and yet I find it amazing that people will believe Malky when it suits them on certain things, but not when it's to do with Tan.

I know that some will say"source"' but I will never give any excuses as to who the source is' because it was told to me from a position of trust' so say what you want call me what you want, don't care.

The following is purely my own opinion of our future under Tan:-

I don't think we will ever go back to being blue, as to our badge' I don't know' I don't think it will ever be anyone's cup of tea, certainly if it doesn't contain the bluebird it won't.

The fact that we now have the go ahead for the new state of the art training ground, makes me think that our future will be built on finding our own future stars, and that the cost of future transfers will be so high, some of the top clubs will go bust, and so called top players will price themselves out of the market, people say that football is a spectator sport and not a business, I think this will change, if it hasn't already

What makes a business profitable, efficient staff', efficiency in the work place, customer satisfaction incomings over out goings etc, I believe that because Tan is not or was not a football man, he will run Cardiff City AFC like a business, but not just any business, but with the rewards that is going to come in the future with the premiership, advertising on a global scale, this is why he will not make major alterations to the ground until we stay in the premiership for at least one year, the rewards from that one year will pay for any alterations, but judging by the guests we have had recently to home matches, I believe there will be massive investment from abroad, with a view to Cardiff City AFC becoming a global company, this may sound like make believe, but look what advertising has done to the world markets, the first thing he has done is put our matches on his TV station, people say we won't sell many shirts or merchandise, it's not about Cardiff City merchandise, it,s about advertising when we are playing Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea etc, think of the fans who want to see those teams, if Cardiff City become popular too, then all well and good.

I think that this may take about 15years give or take, the rewards are there now just think what it will be like in years to come especially with the recession over,this I think is Tans Dream.

Will we as fans be part of it, not as we know it now, I think we will become small share holders, each time we buy a season ticket we will get a share issue, not enough to have a baring on board decisions, but enough to feel part of the club, how we organise our selves up to us,feel we are not part of some thing, and we won't have a say in anything.

Which takes me back to the present , I think the majority on this board, are against the changes made so far, whether anybody outside of this board is that concerned I don't know, I'm not so sure they are, I certainly don't hear it being discussed in the Ninian Stand where I sit, but thats not the point, I know if and when this happens I won't be going down the City, not because I don't want to, but because now I am retired I won't be able to afford it.

I can't say it will or won't happen just my opinion, I do know I wouldn't be enjoying supporting a club run in that environment, I think in the 57 years I have been watching the city, I have had some good times, met some good mates and had some good drinking sessions, I will support the City on our way into the premiership, and as long as I can afford it.
'

This post deserves to made a sticky under its own heading but I gaurantee what you've said will go over the heads of most on here.In the world of internet message boards rumour and spin rules but even your very educated guesswork is probably closer to the truth than those that claim to be ITK.

For those who do not know what happens at the end of each month with Cardiff City AFC'S accounts:-

1) Every effort is made to pay invoices when due within the period required, as requested on the invoice, if there is not enough income from that month, Tan or his company pay the shortfall, I am not sure who is the source, this include"s transfers, wages and expenses.

2) there does not exist a written or verbal contract to charge interest on these monies paid into the club, any interest percentage paid on these payments is pure figment of somebody's imagination, our present manager and our previous manager, has said that Tan has not taken a penny out of the club, and yet I find it amazing that people will believe Malky when it suits them on certain things, but not when it's to do with Tan.

I know that some will say"source"' but I will never give any excuses as to who the source is' because it was told to me from a position of trust' so say what you want call me what you want, don't care.

The following is purely my own opinion of our future under Tan:-

I don't think we will ever go back to being blue, as to our badge' I don't know' I don't think it will ever be anyone's cup of tea, certainly if it doesn't contain the bluebird it won't.

The fact that we now have the go ahead for the new state of the art training ground, makes me think that our future will be built on finding our own future stars, and that the cost of future transfers will be so high, some of the top clubs will go bust, and so called top players will price themselves out of the market, people say that football is a spectator sport and not a business, I think this will change, if it hasn't already

What makes a business profitable, efficient staff', efficiency in the work place, customer satisfaction incomings over out goings etc, I believe that because Tan is not or was not a football man, he will run Cardiff City AFC like a business, but not just any business, but with the rewards that is going to come in the future with the premiership, advertising on a global scale, this is why he will not make major alterations to the ground until we stay in the premiership for at least one year, the rewards from that one year will pay for any alterations, but judging by the guests we have had recently to home matches, I believe there will be massive investment from abroad, with a view to Cardiff City AFC becoming a global company, this may sound like make believe, but look what advertising has done to the world markets, the first thing he has done is put our matches on his TV station, people say we won't sell many shirts or merchandise, it's not about Cardiff City merchandise, it,s about advertising when we are playing Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea etc, think of the fans who want to see those teams, if Cardiff City become popular too, then all well and good.

I think that this may take about 15years give or take, the rewards are there now just think what it will be like in years to come especially with the recession over,this I think is Tans Dream.

Will we as fans be part of it, not as we know it now, I think we will become small share holders, each time we buy a season ticket we will get a share issue, not enough to have a baring on board decisions, but enough to feel part of the club, how we organise our selves up to us,feel we are not part of some thing, and we won't have a say in anything.

Which takes me back to the present , I think the majority on this board, are against the changes made so far, whether anybody outside of this board is that concerned I don't know, I'm not so sure they are, I certainly don't hear it being discussed in the Ninian Stand where I sit, but thats not the point, I know if and when this happens I won't be going down the City, not because I don't want to, but because now I am retired I won't be able to afford it.

I can't say it will or won't happen just my opinion, I do know I wouldn't be enjoying supporting a club run in that environment, I think in the 57 years I have been watching the city, I have had some good times, met some good mates and had some good drinking sessions, I will support the City on our way into the premiership, and as long as I can afford it.
'

A very, very good post.

Genuine question - as I don't know that much about ownership and finances etc.

Should Tan want out after the debt to equity agreement, would be then be able to asset strip the club for his return?

Sorry if its a stupid question.

It does worry me a lot, Annis.

Yeah, Tan has a lot of money behind him - enough for us to compete in the Premier League. But he can walk away at any time, and where does that leave us?

The debt we have is massive and is the main reason we NEED to be promoted this season.

The TV money goes up dramatically next season in the Premier League, and THIS IS THE YEAR TO GO UP.

It is something we have to worry about, but hopefully it will all be made into equity soon with Tan... Otherwise big problems will occur. It could be decades down the line, it could be years but more worringly, it could be months.

Malky knows he HAS TO GET US PROMOTED FOR THE FUTURE OF CARDIFF CITY FOOTBALL CLUB.

Do the finances of our club still worry you or never ever did really ?

I know I sound gloom and doom by bringing this up, but to me the future of our club is what I always think about, to me it sounds like most just care about who we are going to sign next at any cost ? I believe in reality.

When Sam was spending like a mad man, no one moaned incl me.
When the Riddler was bringing all the big names in, most did not care again,I really did then as I had realised from before.
We are doing the same under Tan, but on a much larger than ever scale. yes he has the money behind him, but it is being lent to us on interest.

Our debts under 3 different chairmen have gone from

£24 mill

£38 mill

£105 mill

Just wondering does it bother you ? honest answers please

honest answer......yes,very much so,i think if we dont get promoted,the malaysians walk,i feel that they are not fullfilling the promise to the fans of paying off the debt.

Genuine question - as I don't know that much about ownership and finances etc.

Should Tan want out after the debt to equity agreement, would be then be able to asset strip the club for his return?

Sorry if its a stupid question.

not the first time youv'e asked this one.

Genuine question - as I don't know that much about ownership and finances etc.

Should Tan want out after the debt to equity agreement, would be then be able to asset strip the club for his return?

Sorry if its a stupid question.

not the first time youv'e asked this one.

Yes it is.

Genuine question - as I don't know that much about ownership and finances etc.

Should Tan want out after the debt to equity agreement, would be then be able to asset strip the club for his return?

Sorry if its a stupid question.

Whats he going to strip?
100million+ worth of players that are not there or the CCS we do not even own or the land that surrounds it

Genuine question - as I don't know that much about ownership and finances etc.

Should Tan want out after the debt to equity agreement, would be then be able to asset strip the club for his return?

Sorry if its a stupid question.

Whats he going to strip?
100million+ worth of players that are not there or the ground we do not or even own or the land around it

The ground, players, apparent training ground.

Why do you say we don't own the ground?

I wanted to make my post a new heading, but did't realise until I pressed submit.

Tan has gone past the point where he will walk, he may be a rich man, but he is not stupid, he is in too deep to retract, if he turns his investments to equity, he cannot asset strip, 1) he will be the chairman and not the owner, 2) Nor will he be a creditor.
I am almost sure I'm right, but somebody will tell me if I'm wrong

Thanks

I'm not losing sleep.

It's rather concerning though.

Genuine question - as I don't know that much about ownership and finances etc.

Should Tan want out after the debt to equity agreement, would be then be able to asset strip the club for his return?

Sorry if its a stupid question.

Whats he going to strip?
100million+ worth of players that are not there or the ground we do not or even own or the land around it

The ground, players, apparent training ground.

Why do you say we don't own the ground?

There is a caveat in place that stops Tan or anyone else for knocking the ground down etc
or turning it into a block of luxury flats.

Karl.
As soon as Man City allowed them selves to be taken over as a play toy for rich investors, the fans ceased to exist as the main concerns, there plight is the case I would really be concerned about, they don't care what they pay in transfers or wages, and there lies the big problem, because if the Arab owners, who are so rich, that everything has no limit on the price, get bored with there toy, who is going to pay the asking price for the club and wage structure, who is going to buy those players on the wages they sure on, at the moment every one that is shipped out is substitised by the club, what happens when those owners are not there.

I our case I don't think this will happen, Tan is a rich man by sheer hard work, not because the spoon in his mouth is silver.
If you work for it, you don't waste it, there more losers in life with people who are born with money than those without.

One of the most important things we must all consider, and possibly accept, is that football today is a very different game to that years ago.

Todays world is filled with High Powered Businessman who are prepared to put their money into clubs and to turn that money into profit. I will still argue that Cardiff City is still my club but the reality is that its not. I am merely someone who attends each match (albeit now as a photographer rather than a supporter). The real owner(s) are those that meet the players salaries and provide the month by month funding and, whether we like it or not, it is they who call the shots. We can either attend the matches or choose not to.

I was not personally in favour of a change of colour to red just as I will not be in favour of losing the Bluebird, if it happens, but these are things beyond our control. If the owners of the club believe they can attain top flight football (or European football) by virtue of making a few changes then that decision is theirs.

Anyone watching the NFL the other night will realise that Seattle Seahawks played the Redskins at the Fedex Arena. When did that happen? I have supported the Redskins since the days of Joe Theisman/Art Monk and thought they played at RFK Stadium. The point I make is that, over the next few years, it will be money that dictates what happens and whether we like it or not we will have to accept some changes - even though those changes maybe hard to take.

Does the money being spent worry me?

In all honesty not at the moment. The reason I say this is we are dealing with "Economies of Scale" and we should perhaps consider how much of his own personal wealth is being invested - by way of a percentage - as opposed to how much.

Tan Sri is worth a reported £1bn on his own. However, with his business interests, that figure is probably substantially higher. £100m is at worst 10% of his net value and, at best, substantially less. In short he has room for manouevre and funding is unlikely to get difficult.

If Person B were to be worth £40m and accrued debts of £20m then that would worry me. That is, afterall, 50% of their capacity - even though the actual debt is less.

If I were to accrue a debt of £5000 would it worry me. Damn right it would!

Horses for Courses. The debt is part of a budget that Tan Sri is working to.

Some will notice that I used the NFL analogy. There are many clubs identities who have changed over the years. Baltimore Colts suddenly upped sticks and moved to Indianapolis and become the Indianapolis Colts. Those loyal supporters, left behind in Baltimore, had no side to support - until the Baltimore Ravens came along many years later.

The point I make from all of this is that the next few years are likely to be messy. There are going to be good times and there is going to be some hurt. But deep down our club will always be Cardiff City irrespective as to whether we play in Blue, Red or Steve Borley Pink.

Very accurate diagnosis of situation at this time! but unfortunately wont be seen as that. Hes Just a destroyer of our identity ?