The sticking problem with the Gareth Bale bid would be not w

The sticking problem with the Gareth Bale bid would be not with the offer itself ….but rather with the amount of debt Tan wants to leave.

This is exactly what I’ve been told:

Tan would take £25 million ….but wants to leave the debt …..but how much of it is not known exactly, from £100 Mill to £130 Mill?

There is a lot of debt owed to him , Dalman’s company and others .

Dalman’s Company Owed nearly £40 Mill, Remember Tan said / promised their would Never be money Owed to others ???

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The Gareth Bale story is 100% True, he was putting a Consortium together to buy Cardiff was snubbed by Tan:


And the American Consortium that were ignored that Jonny Owen put in touch with Our Hierarchy are very much back in it



Postby Forever Blue »
Listen the last 5 yrs when Dalman said we had received a number of offers:

We have actually had quite a lot of offers , which I kept putting out in here, But Tan has just laughed them away as he has wanted mental money £200Mill

But now he realises he is just going to get less and less unless he says a sensible price.



Also 5 months ago Jonny Owen was at Forest and was approached by Americans with big money he introduced them to Tans Regime and they never got back to them, this is the problem.

Tan needs to be hounded out of our club.





GARETH BALES CONSORTIUM HAD BID REJECTED BY TAN



Gareth Bale is leading a consortium that has made an approach to buy Cardiff City.
Bale’s group sent a letter of intent to Cardiff owner Vincent Tan last month

The proposal was rejected but interest from the former Real Madrid winger interest in acquiring Cardiff remains strong.





35yo’s group sent letter of intent with financial numbers to #CCFC ownership last month. Proposal rejected but desire remains strong + no Plymouth Argyle interest

@TheAthleticFC

Imagine that! Let’s hope this keeps up.

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I've been discussing this with my good friend Chatgpt and it suggests that if the club is presently valued at £25m (if this is the sum Tan would accept) then a possible answer could be to give him 25% shares in the new company in exchange for debt so hyperthetically the shareholding could be

60% - Arise Capital Partners
15% - Gareth Bale
25% - Vincent Tan

So when the club does return to the EPL and at some point it's worth £400m - then he's got his money back

Possible??

I believe and logically ….Tan would only leave Dalman’s debt of £40million . If so then the consortium’s initial capital outlay would be £65 million (25 + 40).


Naturally the Bale consortium would on top of that have to spend possibly ….£50 million to even £ 150million to push the Club up (otherwise there is no point to buy the Club).


I can’t see anyone paying more than that .

I am not a high financier, but isn't this Dalmans bag, putting consortiums together? Why do i have a feeling he is behind this?

Doesn't his stake convert into a % of shares, 20%~25%, depending on the value? Tan keepes 25% and the new owners 51%.

I am not a high financier, but isn't this Dalmans bag, putting consortiums together? Why do i have a feeling he is behind this?

Doesn't his stake convert into a % of shares, 20%~25%, depending on the value? Tan keepes 25% and the new owners 51%.

I believe Dalman is behind it.

So tan won't be taking 25 million for the club just as a down payment in layman's terms

I've been discussing this with my good friend Chatgpt and it suggests that if the club is presently valued at £25m (if this is the sum Tan would accept) then a possible answer could be to give him 25% shares in the new company in exchange for debt so hyperthetically the shareholding could be

60% - Arise Capital Partners
15% - Gareth Bale
25% - Vincent Tan

So when the club does return to the EPL and at some point it's worth £400m - then he's got his money back

Possible??

25million ? The stadium is valued at over 80 million

I've been discussing this with my good friend Chatgpt and it suggests that if the club is presently valued at £25m (if this is the sum Tan would accept) then a possible answer could be to give him 25% shares in the new company in exchange for debt so hyperthetically the shareholding could be

60% - Arise Capital Partners
15% - Gareth Bale
25% - Vincent Tan

So when the club does return to the EPL and at some point it's worth £400m - then he's got his money back

Possible??

25million ? The stadium is valued at over 80 million

If use stadium and other infrastructure value in sale that would make tans 200m realistic with his debt included.. always said buying a club is throught with problems and can expect this to rumble on for months.. with no garauntee it eill happ

I've been discussing this with my good friend Chatgpt and it suggests that if the club is presently valued at £25m (if this is the sum Tan would accept) then a possible answer could be to give him 25% shares in the new company in exchange for debt so hyperthetically the shareholding could be

60% - Arise Capital Partners
15% - Gareth Bale
25% - Vincent Tan

So when the club does return to the EPL and at some point it's worth £400m - then he's got his money back

Possible??

25million ? The stadium is valued at over 80 million

If use stadium and other infrastructure value in sale that would make tans 200m realistic with his debt included.. always said buying a club is throught with problems and can expect this to rumble on for months.. with no garauntee it eill happ

Hes put 250 million in , realistically the club is worth 100-150 million debt free

I am not a high financier, but isn't this Dalmans bag, putting consortiums together? Why do i have a feeling he is behind this?

Doesn't his stake convert into a % of shares, 20%~25%, depending on the value? Tan keepes 25% and the new owners 51%.

I believe Dalman is behind it.

Annis, as you know i strongly believe that Dalman is behind these moves and i've stated it on here a few times over the last couple of months. It's his game, (apart from a BS) he has a huge investment in the club and needs to protect it and as you've said he hardly speaks to Tan these days. So if he can get a deal over the line with any of the interested party's, and we get rid of Tan and the freeloader Choo for good, then happy days.

This feels like it’s been a growing problem for a while. Tan’s debt to equity conversions seem to have slowed considerably since covid. We’re debt heavy v assets. I know we have the stadium etc, but that is just paper really.

That added to the Dalman’s debt that will have to be left or paid off by any new owner makes us a very difficult sell. Tan’s not going to give the club away for free and that adds £40m onto any purchase. We need Tan to either give in or find some heart. Neither seem likely given his stubbornness so it’ll be a complex deal to agree. Feels all we have is hope at the moment unless they can bring Dalman on board and convert it into shares .. but given the interest accruing, why would he.

This feels like it’s been a growing problem for a while. Tan’s debt to equity conversions seem to have slowed considerably since covid. We’re debt heavy v assets. I know we have the stadium etc, but that is just paper really.

That added to the Dalman’s debt that will have to be left or paid off by any new owner makes us a very difficult sell. Tan’s not going to give the club away for free and that adds £40m onto any purchase. We need Tan to either give in or find some heart. Neither seem likely given his stubbornness so it’ll be a complex deal to agree. Feels all we have is hope at the moment unless they can bring Dalman on board and convert it into shares .. but given the interest accruing, why would he.

Where’s the £40m from? I thought it was a fair bit more than that (with or without the debt to equity (figures)?

If the new owners take on debts of 100 million run up by Tan then they won’t be buying us and he won’t get a penny because we aren’t worth anywhere near that in league 1. Didn’t the jacks only go for 80 and they were in the PL at the time.
It’s his mess so he might aswell just cut his losses…..

I am not a high financier, but isn't this Dalmans bag, putting consortiums together? Why do i have a feeling he is behind this?

Doesn't his stake convert into a % of shares, 20%~25%, depending on the value? Tan keepes 25% and the new owners 51%.

I believe Dalman is behind it.

Absolutely, Dalman has been gradually manoeuvring to get to this position and that makes it much more feasible in reality.

Not a bad outcome if they can tempt Tan sufficiently, but we need to be sure that not only can they afford to buy us but to invest once they’ve got us.

This feels like it’s been a growing problem for a while. Tan’s debt to equity conversions seem to have slowed considerably since covid. We’re debt heavy v assets. I know we have the stadium etc, but that is just paper really.

That added to the Dalman’s debt that will have to be left or paid off by any new owner makes us a very difficult sell. Tan’s not going to give the club away for free and that adds £40m onto any purchase. We need Tan to either give in or find some heart. Neither seem likely given his stubbornness so it’ll be a complex deal to agree. Feels all we have is hope at the moment unless they can bring Dalman on board and convert it into shares .. but given the interest accruing, why would he.

Where’s the £40m from? I thought it was a fair bit more than that (with or without the debt to equity (figures)?

I understood from the accounts we owe Dalman in the region of £40m, happy to be corrected. Tan is obviously owed considerably more. My last guesstimate was £75m but happy for someone who’s better with numbers than me to correct.

If someone offers Tan £25m for the club, but wants it debt free, Tan would have to clear both his and Dalman’s debts. That’s not going to happen so you’re looking at £25m with £40m debt before you start, and that’s with Tan writing off the rest of his at a significant loss. I would guess he’s probably put in close to £150m to the club, for little to no return.

If you look at similar sales, Reading recently went for a reported £25m, Ipswich for £30-35m in L1 so that with our extensive debt makes us a hard sell unless there are lots of compromises on both sides

I think the suggestion I had above was to purchase the club for £25m

That would still leave £68m debt owing to tan which could be "bought" for 25% shares in the newco

So the shareholding could be

60% - Arise Partners Capital
15% - Gareth Bale
25% - Vincent Tan

If the club attains EPL status the club could be worth £450m and Tans shares worth over £100m

This could potentially work as (a) minimal up front investment and (b) no debt to tan

This feels like it’s been a growing problem for a while. Tan’s debt to equity conversions seem to have slowed considerably since covid. We’re debt heavy v assets. I know we have the stadium etc, but that is just paper really.

That added to the Dalman’s debt that will have to be left or paid off by any new owner makes us a very difficult sell. Tan’s not going to give the club away for free and that adds £40m onto any purchase. We need Tan to either give in or find some heart. Neither seem likely given his stubbornness so it’ll be a complex deal to agree. Feels all we have is hope at the moment unless they can bring Dalman on board and convert it into shares .. but given the interest accruing, why would he.

Where’s the £40m from? I thought it was a fair bit more than that (with or without the debt to equity (figures)?

I understood from the accounts we owe Dalman in the region of £40m, happy to be corrected. Tan is obviously owed considerably more. My last guesstimate was £75m but happy for someone who’s better with numbers than me to correct.

If someone offers Tan £25m for the club, but wants it debt free, Tan would have to clear both his and Dalman’s debts. That’s not going to happen so you’re looking at £25m with £40m debt before you start, and that’s with Tan writing off the rest of his at a significant loss. I would guess he’s probably put in close to £150m to the club, for little to no return.

If you look at similar sales, Reading recently went for a reported £25m, Ipswich for £30-35m in L1 so that with our extensive debt makes us a hard sell unless there are lots of compromises on both sides

Appreciate that response and see where you’re coming from, thank you

The confusion lies in what Tan considers ‘debt’?

Dalman has invested/loaned c.£30-40m to the club, so in effect Tan at around 9% and that would have to be paid back, as you state. That’s not unreasonable ask from Tan; or they could make Dalman an offer to stay as part of the new consortium

So that leaves the question, what does Tan consider ‘debt’ owed to him?

The answer to this is particularly important because he has converted substantial sums from debt to equity, which is then no longer considered debt, and he always said he would leave our club ‘debt-free’

The answer could be the difference between a sale or more wasted years of stagnated control

I think the suggestion I had above was to purchase the club for £25m

That would still leave £68m debt owing to tan which could be "bought" for 25% shares in the newco

So the shareholding could be

60% - Arise Partners Capital
15% - Gareth Bale
25% - Vincent Tan

If the club attains EPL status the club could be worth £450m and Tans shares worth over £100m

This could potentially work as (a) minimal up front investment and (b) no debt to tan

Thanks, Paul; that would seem a reasonable outcome that would both allow the sale and wrestle away ‘control’ from Vincent Tan. It’s not impossible; he’s been a sleeping partner before, i.e. Inter Miami

This feels like it’s been a growing problem for a while. Tan’s debt to equity conversions seem to have slowed considerably since covid. We’re debt heavy v assets. I know we have the stadium etc, but that is just paper really.

That added to the Dalman’s debt that will have to be left or paid off by any new owner makes us a very difficult sell. Tan’s not going to give the club away for free and that adds £40m onto any purchase. We need Tan to either give in or find some heart. Neither seem likely given his stubbornness so it’ll be a complex deal to agree. Feels all we have is hope at the moment unless they can bring Dalman on board and convert it into shares .. but given the interest accruing, why would he.

Where’s the £40m from? I thought it was a fair bit more than that (with or without the debt to equity (figures)?

I understood from the accounts we owe Dalman in the region of £40m, happy to be corrected. Tan is obviously owed considerably more. My last guesstimate was £75m but happy for someone who’s better with numbers than me to correct.

If someone offers Tan £25m for the club, but wants it debt free, Tan would have to clear both his and Dalman’s debts. That’s not going to happen so you’re looking at £25m with £40m debt before you start, and that’s with Tan writing off the rest of his at a significant loss. I would guess he’s probably put in close to £150m to the club, for little to no return.

If you look at similar sales, Reading recently went for a reported £25m, Ipswich for £30-35m in L1 so that with our extensive debt makes us a hard sell unless there are lots of compromises on both sides

Appreciate that response and see where you’re coming from, thank you

The confusion lies in what Tan considers ‘debt’?

Dalman has invested/loaned c.£30-40m to the club, so in effect Tan at around 9% and that would have to be paid back, as you state. That’s not unreasonable ask from Tan; or they could make Dalman an offer to stay as part of the new consortium

So that leaves the question, what does Tan consider ‘debt’ owed to him?

The answer to this is particularly important because he has converted substantial sums from debt to equity, which is then no longer considered debt, and he always said he would leave our club ‘debt-free’

The answer could be the difference between a sale or more wasted years of stagnated control

Agreed, if I was slightly over on the Tan, perhaps I am on Dalman too. The £68m to Tan, as quoted above, is not included in and debt to equity, that’ll already be in shares. The conversion will come under the total outlay I estimated at £150m .. again finger in the air but feels about right.

Paul’s suggestion seems a fair valuation but it comes with risk that I can’t see Tan entertaining. As we’ve seen with Tan’s conversions, share percentage can easily be diluted when exchanged for shares. Given he’d lose overall control, the new consortium could easily do similar and he’s left with little to nothing in a few years.

I also couldn’t see any buyers being willing to take on all the risk and outlay for a lower percentage, but again, that’s a personal opinion.

I am desperate for a takeover, and rid of the current setup, but it needs a lot of good will on both sides to achieve. Heart wants it to happen, head says it feels a long way away. Let’s hope Mr Tan gets some divine intervention that it’s time to sell. We’ve been asleep at the wheel for too long and it’s time to have a proper go and recover.

The worry is the numbers don’t add up and he tries to get us back up on the cheap, again. To get back to the prem and make his cash back, he likely has to commit to another 50m, at a very minimum. Is it worth the risk to him to try save face?
I’d bin off half the squad and go again personally, and spend more now with the alternative financial rules in L1. Perfect time to build, as we’ve seen at Birmingham. But that means Tan commiting to a lot more debt to equity. Looks to me like they won’t want to take the hit on some of the lower transfer fees or pay offs for the high wages and mistakes of the past so let’s hope BBM is a wizard. Tan’s an odd man at times. If he gets us flying, early, he’ll probably throw cash at Jan instead.

Let’s see, it’s a long old summer.

This feels like it’s been a growing problem for a while. Tan’s debt to equity conversions seem to have slowed considerably since covid. We’re debt heavy v assets. I know we have the stadium etc, but that is just paper really.

That added to the Dalman’s debt that will have to be left or paid off by any new owner makes us a very difficult sell. Tan’s not going to give the club away for free and that adds £40m onto any purchase. We need Tan to either give in or find some heart. Neither seem likely given his stubbornness so it’ll be a complex deal to agree. Feels all we have is hope at the moment unless they can bring Dalman on board and convert it into shares .. but given the interest accruing, why would he.

Where’s the £40m from? I thought it was a fair bit more than that (with or without the debt to equity (figures)?

I understood from the accounts we owe Dalman in the region of £40m, happy to be corrected. Tan is obviously owed considerably more. My last guesstimate was £75m but happy for someone who’s better with numbers than me to correct.

If someone offers Tan £25m for the club, but wants it debt free, Tan would have to clear both his and Dalman’s debts. That’s not going to happen so you’re looking at £25m with £40m debt before you start, and that’s with Tan writing off the rest of his at a significant loss. I would guess he’s probably put in close to £150m to the club, for little to no return.

If you look at similar sales, Reading recently went for a reported £25m, Ipswich for £30-35m in L1 so that with our extensive debt makes us a hard sell unless there are lots of compromises on both sides

Appreciate that response and see where you’re coming from, thank you

The confusion lies in what Tan considers ‘debt’?

Dalman has invested/loaned c.£30-40m to the club, so in effect Tan at around 9% and that would have to be paid back, as you state. That’s not unreasonable ask from Tan; or they could make Dalman an offer to stay as part of the new consortium

So that leaves the question, what does Tan consider ‘debt’ owed to him?

The answer to this is particularly important because he has converted substantial sums from debt to equity, which is then no longer considered debt, and he always said he would leave our club ‘debt-free’

The answer could be the difference between a sale or more wasted years of stagnated control

Agreed, if I was slightly over on the Tan, perhaps I am on Dalman too. The £68m to Tan, as quoted above, is not included in and debt to equity, that’ll already be in shares. The conversion will come under the total outlay I estimated at £150m .. again finger in the air but feels about right.

Paul’s suggestion seems a fair valuation but it comes with risk that I can’t see Tan entertaining. As we’ve seen with Tan’s conversions, share percentage can easily be diluted when exchanged for shares. Given he’d lose overall control, the new consortium could easily do similar and he’s left with little to nothing in a few years.

I also couldn’t see any buyers being willing to take on all the risk and outlay for a lower percentage, but again, that’s a personal opinion.

I am desperate for a takeover, and rid of the current setup, but it needs a lot of good will on both sides to achieve. Heart wants it to happen, head says it feels a long way away. Let’s hope Mr Tan gets some divine intervention that it’s time to sell. We’ve been asleep at the wheel for too long and it’s time to have a proper go and recover.

The worry is the numbers don’t add up and he tries to get us back up on the cheap, again. To get back to the prem and make his cash back, he likely has to commit to another 50m, at a very minimum. Is it worth the risk to him to try save face?
I’d bin off half the squad and go again personally, and spend more now with the alternative financial rules in L1. Perfect time to build, as we’ve seen at Birmingham. But that means Tan commiting to a lot more debt to equity. Looks to me like they won’t want to take the hit on some of the lower transfer fees or pay offs for the high wages and mistakes of the past so let’s hope BBM is a wizard. Tan’s an odd man at times. If he gets us flying, early, he’ll probably throw cash at Jan instead.

Let’s see, it’s a long old summer.

Good post, makes a lot of sense what you've wrote but i still think there will be a move comming in the next couple of months with Dalman pushing it forward.

Valid point. Dalman being involved would certainly make any Tan exit more viable.

Let’s hope change is coming.

I think the suggestion I had above was to purchase the club for £25m

That would still leave £68m debt owing to tan which could be "bought" for 25% shares in the newco

So the shareholding could be

60% - Arise Partners Capital
15% - Gareth Bale
25% - Vincent Tan

If the club attains EPL status the club could be worth £450m and Tans shares worth over £100m

This could potentially work as (a) minimal up front investment and (b) no debt to tan

Thanks, Paul; that would seem a reasonable outcome that would both allow the sale and wrestle away ‘control’ from Vincent Tan. It’s not impossible; he’s been a sleeping partner before, i.e. Inter Miami

Not sure of bales involvement for 15% surely a one off payment for being front man with minimal shares like 3% is a solid investment for Bale

I was thinking if Bale invested say £20m he could get say 15%.

On the subject of share dilution I actually thought about it and if Tan can do it so can others.

But the workaround is that the consortium guarantee him a minimum value in respect to the sale value of his shares - so if they do dilute he doesn't lose out

The nice thing here is that these are problems that can be overcome

I was thinking if Bale invested say £20m he could get say 15%.

On the subject of share dilution I actually thought about it and if Tan can do it so can others.

But the workaround is that the consortium guarantee him a minimum value in respect to the sale value of his shares - so if they do dilute he doesn't lose out

The nice thing here is that these are problems that can be overcome

I assumed that Tan converts whatever debt he is willing to write off into shares, then he sells a percentage or all of them to the consortium. I am guessing in that scenerio the club still owes Dalmans group, or he can convert them into shares.

We then get a functioning board where hypothetically, Tan gets 2 seats, the consortium 4, and maybe as a significant shareholder or debt holder Dalman retains his board seat. We then get a proper functioning board and chairman.Ours is a little academic as Tan owns nearly all the voting rights.