Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:18 am
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:27 am
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:35 am
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:36 am
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:39 am
bluebirdoct1962 wrote:Annis, my view is exactly the same mate.
The trouble is, that if theyre earning enormous amounts here and are being offered half of that (or even less) elsewhere, Championship or not, theyre going to stay put.
It will be a different case I'm sure if a similar offer comes in for Pilkington towards the end of his contract, his head will surely be turned then.
In LTs case I'm afraid we're going to be stuck with him for a while yet unless we put some sort of package together and part pay wages.
Fact of football life I'm afraid mate.
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:40 am
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:41 am
BluebirdWhitchurch wrote:struggling to see the problem, not their fault we’re paying them so highly and they only have a few years left in them
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:43 am
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:45 am
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:48 am
Bluesman wrote:Why did we sign LT what did Warnock see in him. Complete bad buy.
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:50 am
Bakedalasker wrote:I honestly believe Tomlin could become a Premier player if he put his mind ot it and got fit. The only way he is going to do that is go to another club and work on it.
As for Pilkington I would have thought with a year left of his contract he would have wanted to go out on loan to make himself more marketable. He will still be on the same money regardless where he goes.
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:52 am
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:56 am
Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:02 am
Forever Blue wrote:Bakedalasker wrote:I honestly believe Tomlin could become a Premier player if he put his mind ot it and got fit. The only way he is going to do that is go to another club and work on it.
As for Pilkington I would have thought with a year left of his contract he would have wanted to go out on loan to make himself more marketable. He will still be on the same money regardless where he goes.
Its a strange one Ian,
Why did Warnock drop Tomlin, exactly like other managers have? ?
Tomlin should have taken the offer to play first team football at Championship level, I can't stand players with his attitude.
Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:07 am
OriginalGrangeEndBlue wrote:Forever Blue wrote:Bakedalasker wrote:I honestly believe Tomlin could become a Premier player if he put his mind ot it and got fit. The only way he is going to do that is go to another club and work on it.
As for Pilkington I would have thought with a year left of his contract he would have wanted to go out on loan to make himself more marketable. He will still be on the same money regardless where he goes.
Its a strange one Ian,
Why did Warnock drop Tomlin, exactly like other managers have? ?
Tomlin should have taken the offer to play first team football at Championship level, I can't stand players with his attitude.
I agree with you with regards of disliking players with his attitude but why should he have taken the offer to play first team football at championship level?
He, obviously, is not in love with football or dying to play as this shows with his attitude, fitness and weight problems so why would he move when he’s on excessive wages? It’s just a job for him with his lazy attitude.
The blame lies with Warnock not Tomlin I’m afraid.
Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:09 am
bluebird04 wrote:really, I remember posting on here back when we signed Tomlin, and saying he would be a liability, hes always over weight, and takes up high wages, and I remember loads on here slating me telling me he was one of the best in the championship, and even though all his other managers couldn't get him in shape, Warnock was the ONLY guy who could. I am sure even you annis were saying he was quality and Warnock would be the one manager who throughout his career actually got him fit.
I don't blame either of these two lads, I would do the exact same thing, if I was them, get paid silly money by us, and do nothing or take a big pay cut to play lower level..... and I can see the same thing happening with Madine
Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:12 am
Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:18 am
bluebird04 wrote:really, I remember posting on here back when we signed Tomlin, and saying he would be a liability, hes always over weight, and takes up high wages, and I remember loads on here slating me telling me he was one of the best in the championship, and even though all his other managers couldn't get him in shape, Warnock was the ONLY guy who could. I am sure even you annis were saying he was quality and Warnock would be the one manager who throughout his career actually got him fit.
I don't blame either of these two lads, I would do the exact same thing, if I was them, get paid silly money by us, and do nothing or take a big pay cut to play lower level..... and I can see the same thing happening with Madine
Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:23 am
Tony Blue Williams wrote:bluebird04 wrote:really, I remember posting on here back when we signed Tomlin, and saying he would be a liability, hes always over weight, and takes up high wages, and I remember loads on here slating me telling me he was one of the best in the championship, and even though all his other managers couldn't get him in shape, Warnock was the ONLY guy who could. I am sure even you annis were saying he was quality and Warnock would be the one manager who throughout his career actually got him fit.
I don't blame either of these two lads, I would do the exact same thing, if I was them, get paid silly money by us, and do nothing or take a big pay cut to play lower level..... and I can see the same thing happening with Madine
I can remember a few posters warning against signing Lee Tomlin presumably you were one of them. At the time I thought it was a great signing but that was based on his performance against us at CCS which just proves one swallow doesn't make a summer
I can see where Annis is coming from and TBH I agree with the sentiment of his opinion, but a contract is a contract and as long as both players uphold their end of the bargain (report for training and make themselves available for selection (U23's obviously)) then they are entitled to collect their contractual wages.
It might be time for clubs to start inserting clauses into contracts that if a player is deemed outside the matchday squad then they must accept a reasonable offer to go out on loan. Great idea I suppose but it would be a bitch to get players to accept such a clause
Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:29 am
Forever Blue wrote:Bakedalasker wrote:I honestly believe Tomlin could become a Premier player if he put his mind ot it and got fit. The only way he is going to do that is go to another club and work on it.
As for Pilkington I would have thought with a year left of his contract he would have wanted to go out on loan to make himself more marketable. He will still be on the same money regardless where he goes.
Its a strange one Ian,
Why did Warnock drop Tomlin, exactly like other managers have? ?
Tomlin should have taken the offer to play first team football at Championship level, I can't stand players with his attitude.
Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:36 am
Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:47 am
Sven wrote:Forever Blue wrote:Bakedalasker wrote:I honestly believe Tomlin could become a Premier player if he put his mind ot it and got fit. The only way he is going to do that is go to another club and work on it.
As for Pilkington I would have thought with a year left of his contract he would have wanted to go out on loan to make himself more marketable. He will still be on the same money regardless where he goes.
Its a strange one Ian,
Why did Warnock drop Tomlin, exactly like other managers have? ?
Tomlin should have taken the offer to play first team football at Championship level, I can't stand players with his attitude.
A quick question: Was Neil Warnock actually referring to 'loan' deals at Championship clubs?
Given the Premier League wages both are currently on, that would seem to be the obvious scenario (particularly in Tomlin's case) rather the permanent deals that would see the pair take massive pay drops
There's a double-edged sword here...
If the pair turned down 'loan' deals, which would mean them taking home the same money every week as they do now, then that smacks of unprofessionalism (more surprisingly in the up to now very professional Pilks than the apparently lethargic Tomlin) when they could be playing regular football and (you never know) making a case for inclusion in the revised City squad come the next transfer window
If the moves mooted were to be 'permanent' and each player had to take a considerable pay drop, then I have some sympathy, as the club gave them the contracts and the club have chosen not to utilise their assets (the players)
Can never be too sure what goes on behind the scenes but Neil Warnock will have had his reasons for signing Tomlin (on paper he could be a game changer) but equally, he will have his reasons for discarding him from the first team squad
Another issue is that he (Tomlin) will surely command a transfer fee to even partly recoup the initial fee paid, although that would be massively reduced given the baggage he carries and that other clubs are alerted to City (maybe more so Neil Warnock) wanting him out desperately?
Pilks is slightly different, as he has been a great member of the City squad for some years and has (more than once) played his part when called upon in a very professional (and appreciated by City supporters) manner. Personally, I believe he was far more worthy of being in City's Premier League squad of 25 than certain others
I'm a little reticent to say anything detrimental about Pilks (no longer so for Tomlin, who I initially supported and wanted to see him given a chance) but it appears to me that the best way forward is to negotiate a severance deal and let both parties move on
Tomlin's situation will currently be a little more difficult to resolve, so long as he appears 'happy' to sit on his piles (there's a double entendre in there ) and if he can't be moved on at Christmas, then maybe time for the club to take some medicine, cut their losses and wave goodbye to someone who doesn't appear to be motivated to utilise his undoubted footballing talent
It's a conundrum but one that needs to be sorted sooner rather than later for the sake of all concerned
Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:55 am
Forever Blue wrote:Sven wrote:Forever Blue wrote:Bakedalasker wrote:I honestly believe Tomlin could become a Premier player if he put his mind ot it and got fit. The only way he is going to do that is go to another club and work on it.
As for Pilkington I would have thought with a year left of his contract he would have wanted to go out on loan to make himself more marketable. He will still be on the same money regardless where he goes.
Its a strange one Ian,
Why did Warnock drop Tomlin, exactly like other managers have? ?
Tomlin should have taken the offer to play first team football at Championship level, I can't stand players with his attitude.
A quick question: Was Neil Warnock actually referring to 'loan' deals at Championship clubs?
Given the Premier League wages both are currently on, that would seem to be the obvious scenario (particularly in Tomlin's case) rather the permanent deals that would see the pair take massive pay drops
There's a double-edged sword here...
If the pair turned down 'loan' deals, which would mean them taking home the same money every week as they do now, then that smacks of unprofessionalism (more surprisingly in the up to now very professional Pilks than the apparently lethargic Tomlin) when they could be playing regular football and (you never know) making a case for inclusion in the revised City squad come the next transfer window
If the moves mooted were to be 'permanent' and each player had to take a considerable pay drop, then I have some sympathy, as the club gave them the contracts and the club have chosen not to utilise their assets (the players)
Can never be too sure what goes on behind the scenes but Neil Warnock will have had his reasons for signing Tomlin (on paper he could be a game changer) but equally, he will have his reasons for discarding him from the first team squad
Another issue is that he (Tomlin) will surely command a transfer fee to even partly recoup the initial fee paid, although that would be massively reduced given the baggage he carries and that other clubs are alerted to City (maybe more so Neil Warnock) wanting him out desperately?
Pilks is slightly different, as he has been a great member of the City squad for some years and has (more than once) played his part when called upon in a very professional (and appreciated by City supporters) manner. Personally, I believe he was far more worthy of being in City's Premier League squad of 25 than certain others
I'm a little reticent to say anything detrimental about Pilks (no longer so for Tomlin, who I initially supported and wanted to see him given a chance) but it appears to me that the best way forward is to negotiate a severance deal and let both parties move on
Tomlin's situation will currently be a little more difficult to resolve, so long as he appears 'happy' to sit on his piles (there's a double entendre in there ) and if he can't be moved on at Christmas, then maybe time for the club to take some medicine, cut their losses and wave goodbye to someone who doesn't appear to be motivated to utilise his undoubted footballing talent
It's a conundrum but one that needs to be sorted sooner rather than later for the sake of all concerned
That we don't know Chris? ?
But why has Warnock made it public, for me he's upset with them.
Plus we've always in the past regarding players wages sorted deals out with them and suited both of us, surely just keeping them here on high wages won't be what Warnock or Ken Choo will have wanted, so they will have wanted to help towards the deals and save us some money.
Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:02 pm
Sven wrote:Forever Blue wrote:Sven wrote:Forever Blue wrote:Bakedalasker wrote:I honestly believe Tomlin could become a Premier player if he put his mind ot it and got fit. The only way he is going to do that is go to another club and work on it.
As for Pilkington I would have thought with a year left of his contract he would have wanted to go out on loan to make himself more marketable. He will still be on the same money regardless where he goes.
Its a strange one Ian,
Why did Warnock drop Tomlin, exactly like other managers have? ?
Tomlin should have taken the offer to play first team football at Championship level, I can't stand players with his attitude.
A quick question: Was Neil Warnock actually referring to 'loan' deals at Championship clubs?
Given the Premier League wages both are currently on, that would seem to be the obvious scenario (particularly in Tomlin's case) rather the permanent deals that would see the pair take massive pay drops
There's a double-edged sword here...
If the pair turned down 'loan' deals, which would mean them taking home the same money every week as they do now, then that smacks of unprofessionalism (more surprisingly in the up to now very professional Pilks than the apparently lethargic Tomlin) when they could be playing regular football and (you never know) making a case for inclusion in the revised City squad come the next transfer window
If the moves mooted were to be 'permanent' and each player had to take a considerable pay drop, then I have some sympathy, as the club gave them the contracts and the club have chosen not to utilise their assets (the players)
Can never be too sure what goes on behind the scenes but Neil Warnock will have had his reasons for signing Tomlin (on paper he could be a game changer) but equally, he will have his reasons for discarding him from the first team squad
Another issue is that he (Tomlin) will surely command a transfer fee to even partly recoup the initial fee paid, although that would be massively reduced given the baggage he carries and that other clubs are alerted to City (maybe more so Neil Warnock) wanting him out desperately?
Pilks is slightly different, as he has been a great member of the City squad for some years and has (more than once) played his part when called upon in a very professional (and appreciated by City supporters) manner. Personally, I believe he was far more worthy of being in City's Premier League squad of 25 than certain others
I'm a little reticent to say anything detrimental about Pilks (no longer so for Tomlin, who I initially supported and wanted to see him given a chance) but it appears to me that the best way forward is to negotiate a severance deal and let both parties move on
Tomlin's situation will currently be a little more difficult to resolve, so long as he appears 'happy' to sit on his piles (there's a double entendre in there ) and if he can't be moved on at Christmas, then maybe time for the club to take some medicine, cut their losses and wave goodbye to someone who doesn't appear to be motivated to utilise his undoubted footballing talent
It's a conundrum but one that needs to be sorted sooner rather than later for the sake of all concerned
That we don't know Chris? ?
But why has Warnock made it public, for me he's upset with them.
Plus we've always in the past regarding players wages sorted deals out with them and suited both of us, surely just keeping them here on high wages won't be what Warnock or Ken Choo will have wanted, so they will have wanted to help towards the deals and save us some money.
Thanks, Annis
I agree with you and that's why I'm thinking the deals were on a 'loan' basis and not permanent
Neil Warnock and his old fashioned values will be wondering why the pair wouldn't want to be playing football on a regular basis rather than sitting on their (in Tomlin's case not unsubstantial) backsides and he is clearly annoyed by it!
Neither are training with the squad of 25 and cannot be part of it before Christmas when (surely) other players will be brought in, so what are/were they hoping to achieve?
An odd one indeed and one that has clearly irked the manager!
Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:47 pm
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:38 pm
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:38 pm
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:56 pm
Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:47 pm
Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:40 pm