After all these years on, was Enoch right..?

The recent cenus result may say so: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G4ydhxeFrA

careful , you'l be lynched as a racist for having an opinion

Of course he was right.

The thing is why did we let it happen?

The recent cenus result may say so: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G4ydhxeFrA

spread fear and you're respected, spread love and you're murdered,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3P6N9g-dQg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzRg--jhO8g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLgYAHHkPFs

Of course he was right.

The thing is why did we let it happen?

check out the big brains on brad???

Yes Enoch was right!
Rebellious Angels did come down to earth long ago and taught man many evil things including how to create weapons of war etc.
I hope this answers your question.

He was wrong.

I can't believe this has even been brought up.

Of course he was wrong. Im still awaiting those predicted race riots.

If anything, the London riots proved emphatically just how multiculturalism has worked.

People of all races were looting during those riots.

Powell also came out with this “What’s wrong with racism? Racism is the basis of nationality." which just proves his underlying motives.

After his speech the number of racially related attacks went up. If anything he was the catalyst racists needed to act in the manner they wanted.

A very intelligent but very manipulative and calculated man. He knew by causing a stir with his speech attacks would be on the rise and he'd gain support.

He was wrong.

I can't believe this has even been brought up.

Of course he was wrong. Im still awaiting those predicted race riots.

If anything, the London riots proved emphatically just how multiculturalism has worked.

People of all races were looting during those riots.

Powell also came out with this “What’s wrong with racism? Racism is the basis of nationality." which just proves his underlying motives.

After his speech the number of racially related attacks went up. If anything he was the catalyst racists needed to act in the manner they wanted.

A very intelligent but very manipulative and calculated man. He knew by causing a stir with his speech attacks would be on the rise and he'd gain support.

He didn't gain much support though did he.

I would say most people believed him but as it was not going to happen in their time they did not care, such is the human race.

He didn't gain much support though did he.

I would say most people believed him but as it was not going to happen in their time they did not care, such is the human race.

Fortunately he didn't. I dread to think what state this country would be in now if he had done.

Of course he was right.

The thing is why did we let it happen?

So one of their son's could give you a moderator's roll on a messageboard

Of course he was right.

The thing is why did we let it happen?

So one of their son's could give you a moderator's roll on a messageboard

Not quite.

Enoch was talking about open invitations for anyone while you are referring to independent nations with close links to the UK.

Of course he was right.

The thing is why did we let it happen?

So one of their son's could give you a moderator's roll on a messageboard

Not quite.

Enoch was talking about open invitations for anyone while you are referring to independent nations with close links to the UK.

deja poo.jpg

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

He was wrong.

I can't believe this has even been brought up.

Of course he was wrong. Im still awaiting those predicted race riots.

If anything, the London riots proved emphatically just how multiculturalism has worked.

People of all races were looting during those riots.

Powell also came out with this “What’s wrong with racism? Racism is the basis of nationality." which just proves his underlying motives.

After his speech the number of racially related attacks went up. If anything he was the catalyst racists needed to act in the manner they wanted.

A very intelligent but very manipulative and calculated man. He knew by causing a stir with his speech attacks would be on the rise and he'd gain support.

The London riots mainly took place in Tottenham a predominantly black area. Indeed they were caused by the death in custody of local black hoodlum Mark Duggan. Also in 2001 it was obvious that the areas which suffered race riots were overwhelmingly Asian.

So I fail to understand why you claim that the rioters were ‘multicultural’

Multiculturalism is a very dangerous and unneeded policy which has NEVER been put to the vote in a General Election. The whole policy has been imposed on the citizens of the UK without their consent or agreement from day one.

Just look at what history has taught us about such experiences? Hundreds of years of fighting in Northern Ireland after the protestants were shipped in there and what about Palestine? How can anyone claim that the multiculturalism of creating the state of Israel has in any way brought peace and prosperity to that region?

Enoch Powell predicted that the full scale destruction of the UK (as we know it) would happen in ’10 to 15 years’. He was clearly wrong on that time scale but within 100 to 150 years the UK will be predominantly Islamic and anyone who is white and Christian and living here at the time will be a second class citizen at best.

He was wrong.

I can't believe this has even been brought up.

Of course he was wrong. Im still awaiting those predicted race riots.

If anything, the London riots proved emphatically just how multiculturalism has worked.

People of all races were looting during those riots.

Powell also came out with this “What’s wrong with racism? Racism is the basis of nationality." which just proves his underlying motives.

After his speech the number of racially related attacks went up. If anything he was the catalyst racists needed to act in the manner they wanted.

A very intelligent but very manipulative and calculated man. He knew by causing a stir with his speech attacks would be on the rise and he'd gain support.

The London riots mainly took place in Tottenham a predominantly black area. Indeed they were caused by the death in custody of local black hoodlum Mark Duggan. Also in 2001 it was obvious that the areas which suffered race riots were overwhelmingly Asian.

So I fail to understand why you claim that the rioters were ‘multicultural’

Multiculturalism is a very dangerous and unneeded policy which has NEVER been put to the vote in a General Election. The whole policy has been imposed on the citizens of the UK without their consent or agreement from day one.

Just look at what history has taught us about such experiences? Hundreds of years of fighting in Northern Ireland after the protestants were shipped in there and what about Palestine? How can anyone claim that the multiculturalism of creating the state of Israel has in any way brought peace and prosperity to that region?

Enoch Powell predicted that the full scale destruction of the UK (as we know it) would happen in ’10 to 15 years’. He was clearly wrong on that time scale but within 100 to 150 years the UK will be predominantly Islamic and anyone who is white and Christian and living here at the time will be a second class citizen at best.

Your picking a fight with the wrong guy here!!

Student Black is convinced there is no such thing as a black or asian or white area
in Britain. Have you never been to Aberystwyth? its well mellow there, have you
never been to his street in Rumney? Ebony and ivory all the way there

(Though i do wonder if old Student Black has even ventured as far afield as Grangetown)

You should judge people by what they say and do. Not by the colour of their skin.

You should judge people by what they say and do. Not by the colour of their skin.

Well tell the militant Islamic's that, they are ones blowing up buses and tube trains.

And thats my point..........dont you get it.........yes judge them but not all muslims.....and not all black people.

And thats my point..........dont you get it.........yes judge them but not all muslims.....and not all black people.

This is why Islam is such an emotive subject. You cannot have a reasonable discussion
about Islam with a Muslim unless you toe a certain line. They believe the book to be
'perfect' when, quite frankly, thats a load of bollocks. They believe it is the word of
God, as passed down from the Archangel Gabriel to Mohammed. Fair enough, if they
want to believe that. But it wasnt WRITTEN by Mohammed, nor even finished til many
years after his death, so how can they possibly say its perfect? It was written by other
men and men are fallible.

Yet they look down on our beliefs and think we are lesser people, unclean because we
eat the meat of the pig, and heathens because we do not believe in the writings of the
Koran.

But of course, many Christians look down on Muslims (with some justification) because
here you have billions of people believing a 'book' is the perfect word of God, when of
course its ridiculous.

Common ground? yes of course there is. Many Muslims will ignore a lot of whats written
in their book and focus on passages like "respect your host Country"

But allowing 'Sharia courts' in this Country has pretty much killed off any hope of both
religions living in perfect harmony like a Stevie Wonder record. Why? because sooner
than saying "Welcome to Britain, respect our laws and Customs and integrate".. we have
validated their belief that THEIR religion is the only one. Islam should be respected but
in no way should it be allowed to over-ride British law. The Sharia does just that. Anyone
insisting on this backward doctrine should be allowed to practice it... in a Sharia led
Country

And thats my point..........dont you get it.........yes judge them but not all muslims.....and not all black people.

This is why Islam is such an emotive subject. You cannot have a reasonable discussion
about Islam with a Muslim unless you toe a certain line. They believe the book to be
'perfect' when, quite frankly, thats a load of bollocks. They believe it is the word of
God, as passed down from the Archangel Gabriel to Mohammed. Fair enough, if they
want to believe that. But it wasnt WRITTEN by Mohammed, nor even finished til many
years after his death, so how can they possibly say its perfect? It was written by other
men and men are fallible.

Yet they look down on our beliefs and think we are lesser people, unclean because we
eat the meat of the pig, and heathens because we do not believe in the writings of the
Koran.

But of course, many Christians look down on Muslims (with some justification) because
here you have billions of people believing a 'book' is the perfect word of God, when of
course its ridiculous.

Common ground? yes of course there is. Many Muslims will ignore a lot of whats written
in their book and focus on passages like "respect your host Country"

But allowing 'Sharia courts' in this Country has pretty much killed off any hope of both
religions living in perfect harmony like a Stevie Wonder record. Why? because sooner
than saying "Welcome to Britain, respect our laws and Customs and integrate".. we have
validated their belief that THEIR religion is the only one. Islam should be respected but
in no way should it be allowed to over-ride British law. The Sharia does just that. Anyone
insisting on this backward doctrine should be allowed to practice it... in a Sharia led
Country

Not being funny but all religions are the same.

bang.jpg

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

And thats my point..........dont you get it.........yes judge them but not all muslims.....and not all black people.

This is why Islam is such an emotive subject. You cannot have a reasonable discussion
about Islam with a Muslim unless you toe a certain line. They believe the book to be
'perfect' when, quite frankly, thats a load of bollocks. They believe it is the word of
God, as passed down from the Archangel Gabriel to Mohammed. Fair enough, if they
want to believe that. But it wasnt WRITTEN by Mohammed, nor even finished til many
years after his death, so how can they possibly say its perfect? It was written by other
men and men are fallible.

Yet they look down on our beliefs and think we are lesser people, unclean because we
eat the meat of the pig, and heathens because we do not believe in the writings of the
Koran.

But of course, many Christians look down on Muslims (with some justification) because
here you have billions of people believing a 'book' is the perfect word of God, when of
course its ridiculous.

Common ground? yes of course there is. Many Muslims will ignore a lot of whats written
in their book and focus on passages like "respect your host Country"

But allowing 'Sharia courts' in this Country has pretty much killed off any hope of both
religions living in perfect harmony like a Stevie Wonder record. Why? because sooner
than saying "Welcome to Britain, respect our laws and Customs and integrate".. we have
validated their belief that THEIR religion is the only one. Islam should be respected but
in no way should it be allowed to over-ride British law. The Sharia does just that. Anyone
insisting on this backward doctrine should be allowed to practice it... in a Sharia led
Country

Different day, same shit. I do try to stay out of these one-sided debates, so let me just quickly interject before disappearing into the night - Shariah Courts here in the UK are informal and have NO LEGAL POWERS nor can they impose any penalties - they are VOLUNTARY and they only give OPINIONS on civil matters e.g. inheritance, divorce, children, business disputes etc.

They do NOT "over-ride" British law.

Practising (and non-practising) Muslims (and non-muslims) who WISH to, can go there to sort out their problems and then VOLUNTARILY accept the ruling or if unsatisfied then they can go to a legally binding court of law. Nobody is forced to go to them - only people looking for an Islamic solution to their CIVIL matter.

I don't understand your fear/hatred of them - if British Muslims business partners have a falling out and they want and are happy to accept a mediation from someone who (should!!) be learned in Islam then whats the problem?

Maybe it's the use of the word "court" - it implies legal status (which they don't have ) maybe "Mediation Centres" would be more apt.

I'm really surprised that despite many intelligent articles from you, you still belong to that group of people who feel that Shariah "Courts" (Mediation Centres) are a threat to the UK.

It is NOT possible to suddenly and secretly spring major changes to the legal system in the UK without going through various lengthy legal channels and without the agreement of the major political parties and in turn through general elections...so basically unless British people vote in the changes then it ain't happening.

Having said that I think Shariah Law has been completely misrepresented and misportrayed by the media and the political classes (and unfortunately by pig-ignorant semi-literate Muslims overseas) - this process is called - to quote a great man from a previous thread - 'conditioning -

" So any group or social commentator who speaks negatively on the topics is deemed to be 'far right' or racist... That way, no matter WHAT they say, no matter how lucid or reasoned their argument may be... the public will not listen, because they have already decided (through the press and media)
that the person is a racist. Its called conditioning. "

You are absolutely right here but in place of racism put Islam - no matter what you say or do, people are conditioned to think negatively of Islam/Muslims.

Also I don't see how that in any way is being disrespectful of "your" laws and customs. I consider myself and all the other Muslims I know to be 'integrated' - I work, pay my taxes, respect the laws (and if I do break them I expect the same punishment as anyone else), I play by the rules basically....isn't that "integrated"?

As for looking down on people maybe some Muslims do, maybe some Jews look down on Gentiles (non-jews), maybe some Christians look down on every non-Christian, maybe Athiest look down on Believers...who knows? Maybe you look down on other people too?? Maybe you believe -with very little scholarly knowledge of Islam at least - that other peoples' beliefs are "a load of bollocks" - of course that's your opinion and everyone on this MB has got opinions and are experts on Islamic History and Jurisprudence.......by the way the Quran WAS completely (NOT A SINGLE WORD ADDED AFTER HIS DEATH nearly 1400 years ago) revealed during the 23 years of the Prophet Muhammed's life as a Prophet - a most basic, simple fact like this can be ascertained from any of the Islamic departments of any British University - there you will find many British non-Muslims studying Islam and it's History, Achievements and Laws with a great deal more respect and knowledge than you show.

Finally we don't" ignore" what's in written in the Quran, it's just not all can be applied today, like the verses of War (which I think you allude to) are only applicable during times of war, - it's all about context - so I stress again it's very, very easy to take a verse out of context and dress it up as something else in order to whip up hysteria or paranoia about Muslims - but some basic knowledge and understanding can soon put that to bed.
I hope that I've been a "reasonable" Muslim and frankly you can toe any line you like but try to be fair and accurate and "reasonable" - and don't forget about your 'conditioning' point.
Anyway as I've said before I'm not interested in point scoring I just hope others here on this MB don't buy too much into what you're selling.

And thats my point..........dont you get it.........yes judge them but not all muslims.....and not all black people.

This is why Islam is such an emotive subject. You cannot have a reasonable discussion
about Islam with a Muslim unless you toe a certain line. They believe the book to be
'perfect' when, quite frankly, thats a load of bollocks. They believe it is the word of
God, as passed down from the Archangel Gabriel to Mohammed. Fair enough, if they
want to believe that. But it wasnt WRITTEN by Mohammed, nor even finished til many
years after his death, so how can they possibly say its perfect? It was written by other
men and men are fallible.

Yet they look down on our beliefs and think we are lesser people, unclean because we
eat the meat of the pig, and heathens because we do not believe in the writings of the
Koran.

But of course, many Christians look down on Muslims (with some justification) because
here you have billions of people believing a 'book' is the perfect word of God, when of
course its ridiculous.

Common ground? yes of course there is. Many Muslims will ignore a lot of whats written
in their book and focus on passages like "respect your host Country"

But allowing 'Sharia courts' in this Country has pretty much killed off any hope of both
religions living in perfect harmony like a Stevie Wonder record. Why? because sooner
than saying "Welcome to Britain, respect our laws and Customs and integrate".. we have
validated their belief that THEIR religion is the only one. Islam should be respected but
in no way should it be allowed to over-ride British law. The Sharia does just that. Anyone
insisting on this backward doctrine should be allowed to practice it... in a Sharia led
Country

Different day, same shit. I do try to stay out of these one-sided debates, so let me just quickly interject before disappearing into the night - Shariah Courts here in the UK are informal and have NO LEGAL POWERS nor can they impose any penalties - they are VOLUNTARY and they only give OPINIONS on civil matters e.g. inheritance, divorce, children, business disputes etc.

They do NOT "over-ride" British law.

Practising (and non-practising) Muslims (and non-muslims) who WISH to, can go there to sort out their problems and then VOLUNTARILY accept the ruling or if unsatisfied then they can go to a legally binding court of law. Nobody is forced to go to them - only people looking for an Islamic solution to their CIVIL matter.

I don't understand your fear/hatred of them - if British Muslims business partners have a falling out and they want and are happy to accept a mediation from someone who (should!!) be learned in Islam then whats the problem?

Maybe it's the use of the word "court" - it implies legal status (which they don't have ) maybe "Mediation Centres" would be more apt.

I'm really surprised that despite many intelligent articles from you, you still belong to that group of people who feel that Shariah "Courts" (Mediation Centres) are a threat to the UK.

It is NOT possible to suddenly and secretly spring major changes to the legal system in the UK without going through various lengthy legal channels and without the agreement of the major political parties and in turn through general elections...so basically unless British people vote in the changes then it ain't happening.

Having said that I think Shariah Law has been completely misrepresented and misportrayed by the media and the political classes (and unfortunately by pig-ignorant semi-literate Muslims overseas) - this process is called - to quote a great man from a previous thread - 'conditioning -

" So any group or social commentator who speaks negatively on the topics is deemed to be 'far right' or racist... That way, no matter WHAT they say, no matter how lucid or reasoned their argument may be... the public will not listen, because they have already decided (through the press and media)
that the person is a racist. Its called conditioning. "

You are absolutely right here but in place of racism put Islam - no matter what you say or do, people are conditioned to think negatively of Islam/Muslims.

Also I don't see how that in any way is being disrespectful of "your" laws and customs. I consider myself and all the other Muslims I know to be 'integrated' - I work, pay my taxes, respect the laws (and if I do break them I expect the same punishment as anyone else), I play by the rules basically....isn't that "integrated"?

As for looking down on people maybe some Muslims do, maybe some Jews look down on Gentiles (non-jews), maybe some Christians look down on every non-Christian, maybe Athiest look down on Believers...who knows? Maybe you look down on other people too?? Maybe you believe -with very little scholarly knowledge of Islam at least - that other peoples' beliefs are "a load of bollocks" - of course that's your opinion and everyone on this MB has got opinions and are experts on Islamic History and Jurisprudence.......by the way the Quran WAS completely (NOT A SINGLE WORD ADDED AFTER HIS DEATH nearly 1400 years ago) revealed during the 23 years of the Prophet Muhammed's life as a Prophet - a most basic, simple fact like this can be ascertained from any of the Islamic departments of any British University - there you will find many British non-Muslims studying Islam and it's History, Achievements and Laws with a great deal more respect and knowledge than you show.

Finally we don't" ignore" what's in written in the Quran, it's just not all can be applied today, like the verses of War (which I think you allude to) are only applicable during times of war, - it's all about context - so I stress again it's very, very easy to take a verse out of context and dress it up as something else in order to whip up hysteria or paranoia about Muslims - but some basic knowledge and understanding can soon put that to bed.
I hope that I've been a "reasonable" Muslim and frankly you can toe any line you like but try to be fair and accurate and "reasonable" - and don't forget about your 'conditioning' point.
Anyway as I've said before I'm not interested in point scoring I just hope others here on this MB don't buy too much into what you're selling.

Anjem Choudary says homosexuals should be hung. He says Christians should be asked to convert
and if they do not, they should be executed, as should apostates who have decided they have had
enough of Islam. He says he would never take up arms against Britain because Allah says he can't
do that agains the Country he chooses to live in. But will not condemn the 7/7 lunatics?? For EVERY
single load of bollocks he spouts... he finds a passage from the Q'uran to qualify his words.

IF this f*cking clown is lying, or blaspheming... why has no fatwah been taken out on him? Islam
was quick to condemn Salman Rushdie and all he did was to give HIS version of those verses. It
would appear anyone can use passages from your Holy Book and massage them, manipulate them
to declare fatwah's and teach kids to blow themselves to bits "for God"..

but if you use any passage from the Q'uran to suggest something non complimentary about old
Mohammed... its death!!!

Slight inconsistency there I'd say

Different day, same shit. I do try to stay out of these one-sided debates, so let me just quickly interject before disappearing into the night - Shariah Courts here in the UK are informal and have NO LEGAL POWERS nor can they impose any penalties - they are VOLUNTARY and they only give OPINIONS on civil matters e.g. inheritance, divorce, children, business disputes etc.

They do NOT "over-ride" British law.

Practising (and non-practising) Muslims (and non-muslims) who WISH to, can go there to sort out their problems and then VOLUNTARILY accept the ruling or if unsatisfied then they can go to a legally binding court of law. Nobody is forced to go to them - only people looking for an Islamic solution to their CIVIL matter.

I don't understand your fear/hatred of them - if British Muslims business partners have a falling out and they want and are happy to accept a mediation from someone who (should!!) be learned in Islam then whats the problem?

Maybe it's the use of the word "court" - it implies legal status (which they don't have ) maybe "Mediation Centres" would be more apt.

I'm really surprised that despite many intelligent articles from you, you still belong to that group of people who feel that Shariah "Courts" (Mediation Centres) are a threat to the UK.

It is NOT possible to suddenly and secretly spring major changes to the legal system in the UK without going through various lengthy legal channels and without the agreement of the major political parties and in turn through general elections...so basically unless British people vote in the changes then it ain't happening.

Having said that I think Shariah Law has been completely misrepresented and misportrayed by the media and the political classes (and unfortunately by pig-ignorant semi-literate Muslims overseas) - this process is called - to quote a great man from a previous thread - 'conditioning -

" So any group or social commentator who speaks negatively on the topics is deemed to be 'far right' or racist... That way, no matter WHAT they say, no matter how lucid or reasoned their argument may be... the public will not listen, because they have already decided (through the press and media)
that the person is a racist. Its called conditioning. "

You are absolutely right here but in place of racism put Islam - no matter what you say or do, people are conditioned to think negatively of Islam/Muslims.

Also I don't see how that in any way is being disrespectful of "your" laws and customs. I consider myself and all the other Muslims I know to be 'integrated' - I work, pay my taxes, respect the laws (and if I do break them I expect the same punishment as anyone else), I play by the rules basically....isn't that "integrated"?

As for looking down on people maybe some Muslims do, maybe some Jews look down on Gentiles (non-jews), maybe some Christians look down on every non-Christian, maybe Athiest look down on Believers...who knows? Maybe you look down on other people too?? Maybe you believe -with very little scholarly knowledge of Islam at least - that other peoples' beliefs are "a load of bollocks" - of course that's your opinion and everyone on this MB has got opinions and are experts on Islamic History and Jurisprudence.......by the way the Quran WAS completely (NOT A SINGLE WORD ADDED AFTER HIS DEATH nearly 1400 years ago) revealed during the 23 years of the Prophet Muhammed's life as a Prophet - a most basic, simple fact like this can be ascertained from any of the Islamic departments of any British University - there you will find many British non-Muslims studying Islam and it's History, Achievements and Laws with a great deal more respect and knowledge than you show.

Finally we don't" ignore" what's in written in the Quran, it's just not all can be applied today, like the verses of War (which I think you allude to) are only applicable during times of war, - it's all about context - so I stress again it's very, very easy to take a verse out of context and dress it up as something else in order to whip up hysteria or paranoia about Muslims - but some basic knowledge and understanding can soon put that to bed.
I hope that I've been a "reasonable" Muslim and frankly you can toe any line you like but try to be fair and accurate and "reasonable" - and don't forget about your 'conditioning' point.
Anyway as I've said before I'm not interested in point scoring I just hope others here on this MB don't buy too much into what you're selling.

What you have just said is far too intelligent for some on this board to comprehend buddy. Honestly, its not worth the hassle. I find it hilarious that some on this board think that the white Brit will become a minority in this country. It's as if they believe other races are some kind of virus that is multiplying and breaking down the good of this country.

People, as you said, should stop judging the book by the cover, and instead, they should open the book and read the full story.

Anjem Choudary says homosexuals should be hung.He says Christians should be asked to convert
and if they do not, they should be executed, as should apostates who have decided they have had
enough of Islam.

That is just one person who has chosen to take his interpretation of Islam to the extreme. Not every Muslim
interprets the Qu'ran in the same manner just as not every Christian interprets Christianity in the same manner, hence why there are many branches of Christianity.

He says he would never take up arms against Britain because Allah says he can't
do that agains the Country he chooses to live in. But will not condemn the 7/7 lunatics?? For EVERY
single load of bollocks he spouts... he finds a passage from the Q'uran to qualify his words.

You could find words from any religious book, scroll or piece of text and manipulate it to suit ones own agenda. It's really not hard to do so. Politicians do the same things with opposing parties manifesto's to make them look bad. Manipulation of facts is one major problem in the world.

IF this f*cking clown is lying, or blaspheming... why has no fatwah been taken out on him?

Just because he has one interpretation and they have another interpretation of Islam it does not say who is right and who is wrong so it would be wrong to go against someone else for their beliefs when you have your own. Dictating beliefs to people is bad and many want to avoid doing so.

but if you use any passage from the Q'uran to suggest something non complimentary about old
Mohammed... its death!!!

There is a difference to believers. Believers put God before anything so abusing him will be more offensive to a believer than abusing someone who is nothing to do with the religion or someone who is lower down.

Different day, same shit. I do try to stay out of these one-sided debates, so let me just quickly interject before disappearing into the night - Shariah Courts here in the UK are informal and have NO LEGAL POWERS nor can they impose any penalties - they are VOLUNTARY and they only give OPINIONS on civil matters e.g. inheritance, divorce, children, business disputes etc.

They do NOT "over-ride" British law.

Practising (and non-practising) Muslims (and non-muslims) who WISH to, can go there to sort out their problems and then VOLUNTARILY accept the ruling or if unsatisfied then they can go to a legally binding court of law. Nobody is forced to go to them - only people looking for an Islamic solution to their CIVIL matter.

I don't understand your fear/hatred of them - if British Muslims business partners have a falling out and they want and are happy to accept a mediation from someone who (should!!) be learned in Islam then whats the problem?

Maybe it's the use of the word "court" - it implies legal status (which they don't have ) maybe "Mediation Centres" would be more apt.

I'm really surprised that despite many intelligent articles from you, you still belong to that group of people who feel that Shariah "Courts" (Mediation Centres) are a threat to the UK.

It is NOT possible to suddenly and secretly spring major changes to the legal system in the UK without going through various lengthy legal channels and without the agreement of the major political parties and in turn through general elections...so basically unless British people vote in the changes then it ain't happening.

Having said that I think Shariah Law has been completely misrepresented and misportrayed by the media and the political classes (and unfortunately by pig-ignorant semi-literate Muslims overseas) - this process is called - to quote a great man from a previous thread - 'conditioning -

" So any group or social commentator who speaks negatively on the topics is deemed to be 'far right' or racist... That way, no matter WHAT they say, no matter how lucid or reasoned their argument may be... the public will not listen, because they have already decided (through the press and media)
that the person is a racist. Its called conditioning. "

You are absolutely right here but in place of racism put Islam - no matter what you say or do, people are conditioned to think negatively of Islam/Muslims.

Also I don't see how that in any way is being disrespectful of "your" laws and customs. I consider myself and all the other Muslims I know to be 'integrated' - I work, pay my taxes, respect the laws (and if I do break them I expect the same punishment as anyone else), I play by the rules basically....isn't that "integrated"?

As for looking down on people maybe some Muslims do, maybe some Jews look down on Gentiles (non-jews), maybe some Christians look down on every non-Christian, maybe Athiest look down on Believers...who knows? Maybe you look down on other people too?? Maybe you believe -with very little scholarly knowledge of Islam at least - that other peoples' beliefs are "a load of bollocks" - of course that's your opinion and everyone on this MB has got opinions and are experts on Islamic History and Jurisprudence.......by the way the Quran WAS completely (NOT A SINGLE WORD ADDED AFTER HIS DEATH nearly 1400 years ago) revealed during the 23 years of the Prophet Muhammed's life as a Prophet - a most basic, simple fact like this can be ascertained from any of the Islamic departments of any British University - there you will find many British non-Muslims studying Islam and it's History, Achievements and Laws with a great deal more respect and knowledge than you show.

Finally we don't" ignore" what's in written in the Quran, it's just not all can be applied today, like the verses of War (which I think you allude to) are only applicable during times of war, - it's all about context - so I stress again it's very, very easy to take a verse out of context and dress it up as something else in order to whip up hysteria or paranoia about Muslims - but some basic knowledge and understanding can soon put that to bed.
I hope that I've been a "reasonable" Muslim and frankly you can toe any line you like but try to be fair and accurate and "reasonable" - and don't forget about your 'conditioning' point.
Anyway as I've said before I'm not interested in point scoring I just hope others here on this MB don't buy too much into what you're selling.

What you have just said is far too intelligent for some on this board to comprehend buddy. Honestly, its not worth the hassle. I find it hilarious that some on this board think that the white Brit will become a minority in this country. It's as if they believe other races are some kind of virus that is multiplying and breaking down the good of this country.

People, as you said, should stop judging the book by the cover, and instead, they should open the book and read the full story.

"Buddy"

ANJEM CHOUDARY has read the Q'uran from back to front and side to side. He is
NEVER misquoted, yet can find passages there that condone the death of pretty
much anyone who wont bow down to Islam. He is walking around free and happy.
No fatwah, no death threats, easy life.

SALAM RUSHDIE wrote a book loosely based on verses in the Q'uran that suggest
worship of pagan Gods or some such bollocks. People have been stabbed to death and
blown up over this.

Thank f**k I'm from an evolved religion and could laugh at The Life Of Brian without
fearing for my life

Anjem Choudary says homosexuals should be hung.He says Christians should be asked to convert
and if they do not, they should be executed, as should apostates who have decided they have had
enough of Islam.

That is just one person who has chosen to take his interpretation of Islam to the extreme. Not every Muslim
interprets the Qu'ran in the same manner just as not every Christian interprets Christianity in the same manner, hence why there are many branches of Christianity.

He says he would never take up arms against Britain because Allah says he can't
do that agains the Country he chooses to live in. But will not condemn the 7/7 lunatics?? For EVERY
single load of bollocks he spouts... he finds a passage from the Q'uran to qualify his words.

You could find words from any religious book, scroll or piece of text and manipulate it to suit ones own agenda. It's really not hard to do so. Politicians do the same things with opposing parties manifesto's to make them look bad. Manipulation of facts is one major problem in the world.

IF this f*cking clown is lying, or blaspheming... why has no fatwah been taken out on him?

Just because he has one interpretation and they have another interpretation of Islam it does not say who is right and who is wrong so it would be wrong to go against someone else for their beliefs when you have your own. Dictating beliefs to people is bad and many want to avoid doing so.

but if you use any passage from the Q'uran to suggest something non complimentary about old
Mohammed... its death!!!

There is a difference to believers. Believers put God before anything so abusing him will be more offensive to a believer than abusing someone who is nothing to do with the religion or someone who is lower down.

WTF? SO... let me get this right.

Choudary is ok because he isnt offending muslims by saying "kill the Christians"

He can live

But Rushdie is a fair target??

You really are a bell end

And thats my point..........dont you get it.........yes judge them but not all muslims.....and not all black people.

This is why Islam is such an emotive subject. You cannot have a reasonable discussion
about Islam with a Muslim unless you toe a certain line. They believe the book to be
'perfect' when, quite frankly, thats a load of bollocks. They believe it is the word of
God, as passed down from the Archangel Gabriel to Mohammed. Fair enough, if they
want to believe that. But it wasnt WRITTEN by Mohammed, nor even finished til many
years after his death, so how can they possibly say its perfect? It was written by other
men and men are fallible.

Yet they look down on our beliefs and think we are lesser people, unclean because we
eat the meat of the pig, and heathens because we do not believe in the writings of the
Koran.

But of course, many Christians look down on Muslims (with some justification) because
here you have billions of people believing a 'book' is the perfect word of God, when of
course its ridiculous.

Common ground? yes of course there is. Many Muslims will ignore a lot of whats written
in their book and focus on passages like "respect your host Country"

But allowing 'Sharia courts' in this Country has pretty much killed off any hope of both
religions living in perfect harmony like a Stevie Wonder record. Why? because sooner
than saying "Welcome to Britain, respect our laws and Customs and integrate".. we have
validated their belief that THEIR religion is the only one. Islam should be respected but
in no way should it be allowed to over-ride British law. The Sharia does just that. Anyone
insisting on this backward doctrine should be allowed to practice it... in a Sharia led
Country

Different day, same shit. I do try to stay out of these one-sided debates, so let me just quickly interject before disappearing into the night - Shariah Courts here in the UK are informal and have NO LEGAL POWERS nor can they impose any penalties - they are VOLUNTARY and they only give OPINIONS on civil matters e.g. inheritance, divorce, children, business disputes etc.

They do NOT "over-ride" British law.

Practising (and non-practising) Muslims (and non-muslims) who WISH to, can go there to sort out their problems and then VOLUNTARILY accept the ruling or if unsatisfied then they can go to a legally binding court of law. Nobody is forced to go to them - only people looking for an Islamic solution to their CIVIL matter.

I don't understand your fear/hatred of them - if British Muslims business partners have a falling out and they want and are happy to accept a mediation from someone who (should!!) be learned in Islam then whats the problem?

Maybe it's the use of the word "court" - it implies legal status (which they don't have ) maybe "Mediation Centres" would be more apt.

I'm really surprised that despite many intelligent articles from you, you still belong to that group of people who feel that Shariah "Courts" (Mediation Centres) are a threat to the UK.

It is NOT possible to suddenly and secretly spring major changes to the legal system in the UK without going through various lengthy legal channels and without the agreement of the major political parties and in turn through general elections...so basically unless British people vote in the changes then it ain't happening.

Having said that I think Shariah Law has been completely misrepresented and misportrayed by the media and the political classes (and unfortunately by pig-ignorant semi-literate Muslims overseas) - this process is called - to quote a great man from a previous thread - 'conditioning -

" So any group or social commentator who speaks negatively on the topics is deemed to be 'far right' or racist... That way, no matter WHAT they say, no matter how lucid or reasoned their argument may be... the public will not listen, because they have already decided (through the press and media)
that the person is a racist. Its called conditioning. "

You are absolutely right here but in place of racism put Islam - no matter what you say or do, people are conditioned to think negatively of Islam/Muslims.

Also I don't see how that in any way is being disrespectful of "your" laws and customs. I consider myself and all the other Muslims I know to be 'integrated' - I work, pay my taxes, respect the laws (and if I do break them I expect the same punishment as anyone else), I play by the rules basically....isn't that "integrated"?

As for looking down on people maybe some Muslims do, maybe some Jews look down on Gentiles (non-jews), maybe some Christians look down on every non-Christian, maybe Athiest look down on Believers...who knows? Maybe you look down on other people too?? Maybe you believe -with very little scholarly knowledge of Islam at least - that other peoples' beliefs are "a load of bollocks" - of course that's your opinion and everyone on this MB has got opinions and are experts on Islamic History and Jurisprudence.......by the way the Quran WAS completely (NOT A SINGLE WORD ADDED AFTER HIS DEATH nearly 1400 years ago) revealed during the 23 years of the Prophet Muhammed's life as a Prophet - a most basic, simple fact like this can be ascertained from any of the Islamic departments of any British University - there you will find many British non-Muslims studying Islam and it's History, Achievements and Laws with a great deal more respect and knowledge than you show.

Finally we don't" ignore" what's in written in the Quran, it's just not all can be applied today, like the verses of War (which I think you allude to) are only applicable during times of war, - it's all about context - so I stress again it's very, very easy to take a verse out of context and dress it up as something else in order to whip up hysteria or paranoia about Muslims - but some basic knowledge and understanding can soon put that to bed.
I hope that I've been a "reasonable" Muslim and frankly you can toe any line you like but try to be fair and accurate and "reasonable" - and don't forget about your 'conditioning' point.
Anyway as I've said before I'm not interested in point scoring I just hope others here on this MB don't buy too much into what you're selling.

Anjem Choudary says homosexuals should be hung. He says Christians should be asked to convert
and if they do not, they should be executed, as should apostates who have decided they have had
enough of Islam. He says he would never take up arms against Britain because Allah says he can't
do that agains the Country he chooses to live in. But will not condemn the 7/7 lunatics?? For EVERY
single load of bollocks he spouts... he finds a passage from the Q'uran to qualify his words.

IF this f*cking clown is lying, or blaspheming... why has no fatwah been taken out on him? Islam
was quick to condemn Salman Rushdie and all he did was to give HIS version of those verses. It
would appear anyone can use passages from your Holy Book and massage them, manipulate them
to declare fatwah's and teach kids to blow themselves to bits "for God"..

but if you use any passage from the Q'uran to suggest something non complimentary about old
Mohammed... its death!!!

Slight inconsistency there I'd say

Oh not this again...the old "anjem choudary said" , eh? He is NOT a Scholar, nor schooled in Islam, he to everyone else (other than you) is a nobody - read what I said about semi-literate Muslims above. We have approx 1.5 Billion Muslims world wide so are we gonna have " fatwas" on every Tom, Dick and Abdul who makes some stupid pronouncement on Islam?? Does his views represent the other 1.5 Billion Muslims worldwide, do your view represent all of Wales or Cardiff or anyone else but your self?? Look at the history of Islam in terms of achievements, tolerance, justice - I don't mean recently (last 200 years or so) - I mean look at what they built in Islamic Spain, in Islamic Baghdad, in in Islamic Damascus etc etc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsB1rzhcF-E That is what Islam inspired.

"It would appear anyone can use passages from your Holy Book and massage them, manipulate them
to declare fatwah's and teach kids to blow themselves to bits "for God".." .......THAT is exactly my point! Thats exactly what far right groups like the EDL do, that's exactly what semi-literate fools like your mate choudary do. Islam needs KNOWLEDGE, understanding of the context of how and why the Quranic verses were revealed to the Prophet. a knowledge of the language in which it was revealed, a knowledge of the Prophetic Sayings etc etc these are Sciences which are/were studied in Universities the world over including HERE in the UK.... that's why people like choudary above are unknown, ignored and derided except by the media which likes to give them a platform in order to sell an agenda.

yes he was right, but you can't have a opinion as your labelled a racist!

only a matter of time before the riots!

And thats my point..........dont you get it.........yes judge them but not all muslims.....and not all black people.

This is why Islam is such an emotive subject. You cannot have a reasonable discussion
about Islam with a Muslim unless you toe a certain line. They believe the book to be
'perfect' when, quite frankly, thats a load of bollocks. They believe it is the word of
God, as passed down from the Archangel Gabriel to Mohammed. Fair enough, if they
want to believe that. But it wasnt WRITTEN by Mohammed, nor even finished til many
years after his death, so how can they possibly say its perfect? It was written by other
men and men are fallible.

Yet they look down on our beliefs and think we are lesser people, unclean because we
eat the meat of the pig, and heathens because we do not believe in the writings of the
Koran.

But of course, many Christians look down on Muslims (with some justification) because
here you have billions of people believing a 'book' is the perfect word of God, when of
course its ridiculous.

Common ground? yes of course there is. Many Muslims will ignore a lot of whats written
in their book and focus on passages like "respect your host Country"

But allowing 'Sharia courts' in this Country has pretty much killed off any hope of both
religions living in perfect harmony like a Stevie Wonder record. Why? because sooner
than saying "Welcome to Britain, respect our laws and Customs and integrate".. we have
validated their belief that THEIR religion is the only one. Islam should be respected but
in no way should it be allowed to over-ride British law. The Sharia does just that. Anyone
insisting on this backward doctrine should be allowed to practice it... in a Sharia led
Country

Different day, same shit. I do try to stay out of these one-sided debates, so let me just quickly interject before disappearing into the night - Shariah Courts here in the UK are informal and have NO LEGAL POWERS nor can they impose any penalties - they are VOLUNTARY and they only give OPINIONS on civil matters e.g. inheritance, divorce, children, business disputes etc.

They do NOT "over-ride" British law.

Practising (and non-practising) Muslims (and non-muslims) who WISH to, can go there to sort out their problems and then VOLUNTARILY accept the ruling or if unsatisfied then they can go to a legally binding court of law. Nobody is forced to go to them - only people looking for an Islamic solution to their CIVIL matter.

I don't understand your fear/hatred of them - if British Muslims business partners have a falling out and they want and are happy to accept a mediation from someone who (should!!) be learned in Islam then whats the problem?

Maybe it's the use of the word "court" - it implies legal status (which they don't have ) maybe "Mediation Centres" would be more apt.

I'm really surprised that despite many intelligent articles from you, you still belong to that group of people who feel that Shariah "Courts" (Mediation Centres) are a threat to the UK.

It is NOT possible to suddenly and secretly spring major changes to the legal system in the UK without going through various lengthy legal channels and without the agreement of the major political parties and in turn through general elections...so basically unless British people vote in the changes then it ain't happening.

Having said that I think Shariah Law has been completely misrepresented and misportrayed by the media and the political classes (and unfortunately by pig-ignorant semi-literate Muslims overseas) - this process is called - to quote a great man from a previous thread - 'conditioning -

" So any group or social commentator who speaks negatively on the topics is deemed to be 'far right' or racist... That way, no matter WHAT they say, no matter how lucid or reasoned their argument may be... the public will not listen, because they have already decided (through the press and media)
that the person is a racist. Its called conditioning. "

You are absolutely right here but in place of racism put Islam - no matter what you say or do, people are conditioned to think negatively of Islam/Muslims.

Also I don't see how that in any way is being disrespectful of "your" laws and customs. I consider myself and all the other Muslims I know to be 'integrated' - I work, pay my taxes, respect the laws (and if I do break them I expect the same punishment as anyone else), I play by the rules basically....isn't that "integrated"?

As for looking down on people maybe some Muslims do, maybe some Jews look down on Gentiles (non-jews), maybe some Christians look down on every non-Christian, maybe Athiest look down on Believers...who knows? Maybe you look down on other people too?? Maybe you believe -with very little scholarly knowledge of Islam at least - that other peoples' beliefs are "a load of bollocks" - of course that's your opinion and everyone on this MB has got opinions and are experts on Islamic History and Jurisprudence.......by the way the Quran WAS completely (NOT A SINGLE WORD ADDED AFTER HIS DEATH nearly 1400 years ago) revealed during the 23 years of the Prophet Muhammed's life as a Prophet - a most basic, simple fact like this can be ascertained from any of the Islamic departments of any British University - there you will find many British non-Muslims studying Islam and it's History, Achievements and Laws with a great deal more respect and knowledge than you show.

Finally we don't" ignore" what's in written in the Quran, it's just not all can be applied today, like the verses of War (which I think you allude to) are only applicable during times of war, - it's all about context - so I stress again it's very, very easy to take a verse out of context and dress it up as something else in order to whip up hysteria or paranoia about Muslims - but some basic knowledge and understanding can soon put that to bed.
I hope that I've been a "reasonable" Muslim and frankly you can toe any line you like but try to be fair and accurate and "reasonable" - and don't forget about your 'conditioning' point.
Anyway as I've said before I'm not interested in point scoring I just hope others here on this MB don't buy too much into what you're selling.

Anjem Choudary says homosexuals should be hung. He says Christians should be asked to convert
and if they do not, they should be executed, as should apostates who have decided they have had
enough of Islam. He says he would never take up arms against Britain because Allah says he can't
do that agains the Country he chooses to live in. But will not condemn the 7/7 lunatics?? For EVERY
single load of bollocks he spouts... he finds a passage from the Q'uran to qualify his words.

IF this f*cking clown is lying, or blaspheming... why has no fatwah been taken out on him? Islam
was quick to condemn Salman Rushdie and all he did was to give HIS version of those verses. It
would appear anyone can use passages from your Holy Book and massage them, manipulate them
to declare fatwah's and teach kids to blow themselves to bits "for God"..

but if you use any passage from the Q'uran to suggest something non complimentary about old
Mohammed... its death!!!

Slight inconsistency there I'd say

Oh not this again...the old "anjem choudary said" , eh? He is NOT a Scholar, nor schooled in Islam, he to everyone else (other than you) is a nobody - read what I said about semi-literate Muslims above. We have approx 1.5 Billion Muslims world wide so are we gonna have " fatwas" on every Tom, Dick and Abdul who makes some stupid pronouncement on Islam?? Does his views represent the other 1.5 Billion Muslims worldwide, do your view represent all of Wales or Cardiff or anyone else but your self?? Look at the history of Islam in terms of achievements, tolerance, justice - I don't mean recently (last 200 years or so) - I mean look at what they built in Islamic Spain, in Islamic Baghdad, in in Islamic Damascus etc etc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsB1rzhcF-E That is what Islam inspired.

"It would appear anyone can use passages from your Holy Book and massage them, manipulate them
to declare fatwah's and teach kids to blow themselves to bits "for God".." .......THAT is exactly my point! Thats exactly what far right groups like the EDL do, that's exactly what semi-literate fools like your mate choudary do. Islam needs KNOWLEDGE, understanding of the context of how and why the Quranic verses were revealed to the Prophet. a knowledge of the language in which it was revealed, a knowledge of the Prophetic Sayings etc etc these are Sciences which are/were studied in Universities the world over including HERE in the UK.... that's why people like choudary above are unknown, ignored and derided except by the media which likes to give them a platform in order to sell an agenda.

Feller, a Fatwah was issued on Salman Rushdie for his view on the 'satanic verses' the
alleged inclusion of passages where the prophet spoke of worshipping pagan Gods. Just
his opinion. Riots across the Muslim World, journalists murdered, Rushdie still on a death
list. It was ONE Muslims perception of the Q'uran...Why wasnt HE ignored the way Choudary is?

Why is it Choudary can talk of death destruction executing apostates and christians....

not a murmur from the Muslim World.

Dont just look down your nose at me. This is a valid question.

Feller, a Fatwah was issued on Salman Rushdie for his view on the 'satanic verses' the
alleged inclusion of passages where the prophet spoke of worshipping pagan Gods. Just
his opinion. Riots across the Muslim World, journalists murdered, Rushdie still on a death
list. It was ONE Muslims perception of the Q'uran...Why wasnt HE ignored the way Choudary is?

Why is it Choudary can talk of death destruction executing apostates and christians....

not a murmur from the Muslim World.

Dont just look down your nose at me. This is a valid question.


I think you're going mad...The Muslim world doesn't know WHO Choudary is!!!!!!!! Go ask any Muslim in Egypt or Palestine or Indonesia or Bosnia or Saudi Arabia etc etc etc who he is!!??? Why on earth would they bother to declare a Fatwa on him when NOBODY know who he is? Choudary lives in Britain - if he is the huge threat to the Britain and the rest of the world you imply then I'm sure the old bill would have nicked him by now, they've nicked enough other potential threats...or perhaps just maybe, you're giving him an awful lot of 'street cred' he doesn't have/deserve!


Salman Rushdie's book was a deliberate foul mouthed, provocative attack (by a MUSLIM) on the most revered personalities in Islam (nothing to do with Quran) knowing full well the hurt and insult he would cause - the Fatwa was made by Ayotollah Khomeinei of Iran after many months once his book became well known - it was no doubt a cynical ploy to try and score some points on the international scene with other Muslims in 1989 (this was just after a long and exhausting war with Iraq) - so who followed it? The majority of Muslims (Sunnis maybe 90% of Muslims worldwide) never made any attempt to kill him , nor did Iran and they said they wouldn't as well. I never tried to kill him and I never intended to....don't get me wrong I despise the man and I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire - he made his made his bed.... but I wouldn't try to kill him.

Got nothing to do with my main points above but i'm sure you got a lot more examples of errant Muslim behaviour you want me to justify/comment on....
Anyway I got work in the morning...taraa