Is Wales becoming a Police state..?

i see your point about the big parties having to listen to the voters or they will leave them and vote for a smaller one .think you,re right .i,m a natural labour voter but i wouldn,t vote for them last general election because of the immigration issue.i wrote no confidence across my voting slip as i believe i should vote but couldn,t see who to vote for.will be voting labour next time if only to rid the nation of the bunch of chancers who are in power now.what,s was that fellows name who got shot?the gay fellow.kim?didn,t he wipe out the labour in rotterdam?

I can totally understand why you wouldn't vote Labour any more. The British Labour Party has neglected their own voters in some sense. The deep conservative areas of the UK don't suffer that much from the problems of mass-immigration.
The real victims of mass immigration are in the traditional Labour voting areas. Immigration on itself is a good thing, but it should be controlled so that you won't get entire towns and cities being overrun by immigrants. So the Labour Party should have supported a policy of slow immigration, well controlled borders and care about the working class areas. Instead they not only let hundreds of thousands of people (most of them without any knowledge of Britain's core values or the English language) in the country, but they then try to attack anyone who has any doubts or questions about this policy.

So on this point, Labour really isn't the working class party any more. But I can get why you want to vote Labour next time, in some parts of the country it's the only way of voting the posh, Eton boys out.

The gay fellow you meant was Pim Fortuyn. He was a sociology professor and had his own ideas about how the country should be run. Around 2001/2002 Dutch people were becoming really concerned about a lot of issues the country faced and they demanded change on certain areas (thougher immigration laws, thougher sentences, reform in the welfare system) and they didn't got it. None of the established parties (the Christian-Democrats, the Labour Party, the Conservative Liberals) spoke about these problems. After all: they were responsible for them, so instead of admitting they were wrong and the system had to be improved, they branded everyone who criticized them as racists or right-extremists.
According to their standards, more than half of the Dutch electorate had become racist by then. By that time Pim Fortuyn stood up. Although he was portrayed by most of the media (here and abroad) as some rightwing nutjob, he wasn't. He spoke openly about the problems I just mentioned and his solutions to them were quite good, actually. So his group of followers grew rapidly. By that time he started to pose an even greater threat to the establishment, so they called him and his voters to Hitler and Mussolini.
By doing that, the establishment proved itself to be fully out of touch with the electorate and the average man. So they were themselve responsible for even more people voting for Pim Fortuyn. Then came the elections for local councils (gemeenteraadsverkiezingen). Rotterdam was his home town and he was the front man of the list Leefbaar Rotterdam. Rotterdam has long been the city with the largest port in the world and a lot of Rotterdammers are working class people. Because Rotterdam has a lot of deprived immigrant ghetto's as well, the people of this city were finally glad that someone in politics understood their problems and worries. So in the local elections he diminished the Labour party in Rotterdam, because all of the working class vote had gone to Fortuyn. By now, the balance has somewhat been restored in Rotterdam, where Leefbaar and Labour are now exact the same size.

After the local elections, there were general elections and the other parties hadn't learned from their mistakes. Their campaigns focussed solely on Fortuyn and his following. They called him things like 'right-extremist', 'fanatical', 'a danger for the country and the constitution' and so on.
Eventually it had to go wrong. One man from Harderwijk, an animal-rights activist, decided to shoot Fortuyn. And he did. On election day Fortuyn's party came second in the Netherlands, after the Christian Democrat party. I think that if he still were alive at the time of the election, he would have become Prime Minister.

Unfortunately this wasn't the case and Fortuyn's party was full of crackpots. They ruined the 'legacy of Fortuyn' and his party has by now vanished.

In the meantime, Fortuyn's good friend Theo van Gogh (yes, a descendant of the painter Vincent van Gogh) was murdered by an islamic fundamentalist. By then, the entire population of the Netherlands understood the dangers of Islam and the dangers of criticizing Islam. So we did what Dutch people do: When someone tells us not to do something, we do it. So almost the entire Dutch political spectrum (expect the Greens) turned quite hostile to Islam.

In 2012 we still have the Freedom Party of Geert Wilders (who keeps the legacy of Fortuyn in some way alive). In the 2010 election he got almost a quarter of Dutch voters to cast their vote on him and in the September 2012 election he came third again. The pressure from people like him and the memory of the murders of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh make that the entire political spectrum is now in favour of tougher sentences and stricter immigration policy.

Let's hope you, in the UK, don't need murder and violence in order to bring your politicians back to reality.

Cheers.

No, it definitely is not.

You should be head of the liberal democrats or labour party honestly.

Because I don't think that Wales is becoming a 'police state'? Nice one.

No, because of your agenda and blatant bias when it comes to politics that has spread like disease on this forum ever since you signed up. Your liberal do gooding attitude is draining. We won't all live in a world of beautiful flowers where people get on with one another and the mere thought of violence never crosses anyone's mind.

Good job that's not what I think then. However, to think that I could have such an effect is a compliment nontheless! (Not that I have encountered many who share my views which sort of undermines your point). Feel free to question me on my beliefs and 'agenda' as you appear to be a very confused, unfulfilled, young man.

N.B The irony of being told that I want some kind of dreamworld by a guy who pretends to be various characters on a messageboard is not lost on me.

N.B The irony of being told that I want some kind of dreamworld by a guy who pretends to be various characters on a messageboard is not lost on me.

Oh well played that man. Well played.

i see your point about the big parties having to listen to the voters or they will leave them and vote for a smaller one .think you,re right .i,m a natural labour voter but i wouldn,t vote for them last general election because of the immigration issue.i wrote no confidence across my voting slip as i believe i should vote but couldn,t see who to vote for.will be voting labour next time if only to rid the nation of the bunch of chancers who are in power now.what,s was that fellows name who got shot?the gay fellow.kim?didn,t he wipe out the labour in rotterdam?

I can totally understand why you wouldn't vote Labour any more. The British Labour Party has neglected their own voters in some sense. The deep conservative areas of the UK don't suffer that much from the problems of mass-immigration.
The real victims of mass immigration are in the traditional Labour voting areas. Immigration on itself is a good thing, but it should be controlled so that you won't get entire towns and cities being overrun by immigrants. So the Labour Party should have supported a policy of slow immigration, well controlled borders and care about the working class areas. Instead they not only let hundreds of thousands of people (most of them without any knowledge of Britain's core values or the English language) in the country, but they then try to attack anyone who has any doubts or questions about this policy.

So on this point, Labour really isn't the working class party any more. But I can get why you want to vote Labour next time, in some parts of the country it's the only way of voting the posh, Eton boys out.

The gay fellow you meant was Pim Fortuyn. He was a sociology professor and had his own ideas about how the country should be run. Around 2001/2002 Dutch people were becoming really concerned about a lot of issues the country faced and they demanded change on certain areas (thougher immigration laws, thougher sentences, reform in the welfare system) and they didn't got it. None of the established parties (the Christian-Democrats, the Labour Party, the Conservative Liberals) spoke about these problems. After all: they were responsible for them, so instead of admitting they were wrong and the system had to be improved, they branded everyone who criticized them as racists or right-extremists.
According to their standards, more than half of the Dutch electorate had become racist by then. By that time Pim Fortuyn stood up. Although he was portrayed by most of the media (here and abroad) as some rightwing nutjob, he wasn't. He spoke openly about the problems I just mentioned and his solutions to them were quite good, actually. So his group of followers grew rapidly. By that time he started to pose an even greater threat to the establishment, so they called him and his voters to Hitler and Mussolini.
By doing that, the establishment proved itself to be fully out of touch with the electorate and the average man. So they were themselve responsible for even more people voting for Pim Fortuyn. Then came the elections for local councils (gemeenteraadsverkiezingen). Rotterdam was his home town and he was the front man of the list Leefbaar Rotterdam. Rotterdam has long been the city with the largest port in the world and a lot of Rotterdammers are working class people. Because Rotterdam has a lot of deprived immigrant ghetto's as well, the people of this city were finally glad that someone in politics understood their problems and worries. So in the local elections he diminished the Labour party in Rotterdam, because all of the working class vote had gone to Fortuyn. By now, the balance has somewhat been restored in Rotterdam, where Leefbaar and Labour are now exact the same size.

After the local elections, there were general elections and the other parties hadn't learned from their mistakes. Their campaigns focussed solely on Fortuyn and his following. They called him things like 'right-extremist', 'fanatical', 'a danger for the country and the constitution' and so on.
Eventually it had to go wrong. One man from Harderwijk, an animal-rights activist, decided to shoot Fortuyn. And he did. On election day Fortuyn's party came second in the Netherlands, after the Christian Democrat party. I think that if he still were alive at the time of the election, he would have become Prime Minister.

Unfortunately this wasn't the case and Fortuyn's party was full of crackpots. They ruined the 'legacy of Fortuyn' and his party has by now vanished.

In the meantime, Fortuyn's good friend Theo van Gogh (yes, a descendant of the painter Vincent van Gogh) was murdered by an islamic fundamentalist. By then, the entire population of the Netherlands understood the dangers of Islam and the dangers of criticizing Islam. So we did what Dutch people do: When someone tells us not to do something, we do it. So almost the entire Dutch political spectrum (expect the Greens) turned quite hostile to Islam.

In 2012 we still have the Freedom Party of Geert Wilders (who keeps the legacy of Fortuyn in some way alive). In the 2010 election he got almost a quarter of Dutch voters to cast their vote on him and in the September 2012 election he came third again. The pressure from people like him and the memory of the murders of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh make that the entire political spectrum is now in favour of tougher sentences and stricter immigration policy.

Let's hope you, in the UK, don't need murder and violence in order to bring your politicians back to reality.

Cheers.

thank you jordy.i know a little bit about the netherlands due to having a dutch mate who lives in zwolle.lovely little city. i say i,m a f.c zwolle fan. i,m a glory hunter ,didn,t they go up last season?real shame about those two getting killed.pim was no nut job.labour are no longer a working class centre left party.they are a cultural left party.they have allienated a lot of their core vote.thankfully for them this lot in power now are that crap that they are going to bring labour it,s voters back in droves just to rid the country of them

N.B The irony of being told that I want some kind of dreamworld by a guy who pretends to be various characters on a messageboard is not lost on me.

Oh well played that man. Well played.

the boy is proper on the ball

Oh for goodness sake, police state? Really?

Adam, give up politics for you own good.

Oh for goodness sake, police state? Really?

Adam, give up politics for you own good.

N.B The irony of being told that I want some kind of dreamworld by a guy who pretends to be various characters on a messageboard is not lost on me.

Oh well played that man. Well played.

the boy is proper on the ball

Cheers geezers

Now that more powers are being moved to Wales from London there are also powers taken back from local authorities to the WAG.

Lets be honest I can't ever see another leading group in the WAG other Labour because of the many dull fuckers who vote for Labour no matter who is standing for them.

Then we have MediaWales who are owned by Mirror Group who are well known Labour supporting media outlet.

So surely it begs the question that is Wales walking blindly towards becoming a one nation police state..?

Oh you poor paranoid, hysterical dab.

They're all out to get you!

Hang on...

Didn't you whistle blow on some housing association by blabbing to Media Wales?

Hypocritical.

i think the police force is becoming a buisness, making money from fines is the in thing at the moment, theres no money in catching a killer, no more clips across the ear hole its money now. fines . fines . fines. money money money

i see your point about the big parties having to listen to the voters or they will leave them and vote for a smaller one .think you,re right .i,m a natural labour voter but i wouldn,t vote for them last general election because of the immigration issue.i wrote no confidence across my voting slip as i believe i should vote but couldn,t see who to vote for.will be voting labour next time if only to rid the nation of the bunch of chancers who are in power now.what,s was that fellows name who got shot?the gay fellow.kim?didn,t he wipe out the labour in rotterdam?

I can totally understand why you wouldn't vote Labour any more. The British Labour Party has neglected their own voters in some sense. The deep conservative areas of the UK don't suffer that much from the problems of mass-immigration.
The real victims of mass immigration are in the traditional Labour voting areas. Immigration on itself is a good thing, but it should be controlled so that you won't get entire towns and cities being overrun by immigrants. So the Labour Party should have supported a policy of slow immigration, well controlled borders and care about the working class areas. Instead they not only let hundreds of thousands of people (most of them without any knowledge of Britain's core values or the English language) in the country, but they then try to attack anyone who has any doubts or questions about this policy.

So on this point, Labour really isn't the working class party any more. But I can get why you want to vote Labour next time, in some parts of the country it's the only way of voting the posh, Eton boys out.

The gay fellow you meant was Pim Fortuyn. He was a sociology professor and had his own ideas about how the country should be run. Around 2001/2002 Dutch people were becoming really concerned about a lot of issues the country faced and they demanded change on certain areas (thougher immigration laws, thougher sentences, reform in the welfare system) and they didn't got it. None of the established parties (the Christian-Democrats, the Labour Party, the Conservative Liberals) spoke about these problems. After all: they were responsible for them, so instead of admitting they were wrong and the system had to be improved, they branded everyone who criticized them as racists or right-extremists.
According to their standards, more than half of the Dutch electorate had become racist by then. By that time Pim Fortuyn stood up. Although he was portrayed by most of the media (here and abroad) as some rightwing nutjob, he wasn't. He spoke openly about the problems I just mentioned and his solutions to them were quite good, actually. So his group of followers grew rapidly. By that time he started to pose an even greater threat to the establishment, so they called him and his voters to Hitler and Mussolini.
By doing that, the establishment proved itself to be fully out of touch with the electorate and the average man. So they were themselve responsible for even more people voting for Pim Fortuyn. Then came the elections for local councils (gemeenteraadsverkiezingen). Rotterdam was his home town and he was the front man of the list Leefbaar Rotterdam. Rotterdam has long been the city with the largest port in the world and a lot of Rotterdammers are working class people. Because Rotterdam has a lot of deprived immigrant ghetto's as well, the people of this city were finally glad that someone in politics understood their problems and worries. So in the local elections he diminished the Labour party in Rotterdam, because all of the working class vote had gone to Fortuyn. By now, the balance has somewhat been restored in Rotterdam, where Leefbaar and Labour are now exact the same size.

After the local elections, there were general elections and the other parties hadn't learned from their mistakes. Their campaigns focussed solely on Fortuyn and his following. They called him things like 'right-extremist', 'fanatical', 'a danger for the country and the constitution' and so on.
Eventually it had to go wrong. One man from Harderwijk, an animal-rights activist, decided to shoot Fortuyn. And he did. On election day Fortuyn's party came second in the Netherlands, after the Christian Democrat party. I think that if he still were alive at the time of the election, he would have become Prime Minister.

Unfortunately this wasn't the case and Fortuyn's party was full of crackpots. They ruined the 'legacy of Fortuyn' and his party has by now vanished.

In the meantime, Fortuyn's good friend Theo van Gogh (yes, a descendant of the painter Vincent van Gogh) was murdered by an islamic fundamentalist. By then, the entire population of the Netherlands understood the dangers of Islam and the dangers of criticizing Islam. So we did what Dutch people do: When someone tells us not to do something, we do it. So almost the entire Dutch political spectrum (expect the Greens) turned quite hostile to Islam.

In 2012 we still have the Freedom Party of Geert Wilders (who keeps the legacy of Fortuyn in some way alive). In the 2010 election he got almost a quarter of Dutch voters to cast their vote on him and in the September 2012 election he came third again. The pressure from people like him and the memory of the murders of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh make that the entire political spectrum is now in favour of tougher sentences and stricter immigration policy.

Let's hope you, in the UK, don't need murder and violence in order to bring your politicians back to reality.

Cheers.

thank you jordy.i know a little bit about the netherlands due to having a dutch mate who lives in zwolle.lovely little city. i say i,m a f.c zwolle fan. i,m a glory hunter ,didn,t they go up last season?real shame about those two getting killed.pim was no nut job.labour are no longer a working class centre left party.they are a cultural left party.they have allienated a lot of their core vote.thankfully for them this lot in power now are that crap that they are going to bring labour it,s voters back in droves just to rid the country of them

Yes, Zwolle did go up last season. Let me know when you're in the Netherlands so we can have a pint.

i think the police force is becoming a buisness, making money from fines is the in thing at the moment, theres no money in catching a killer, no more clips across the ear hole its money now. fines . fines . fines. money money money

I guess they have been forced down that route due to the amount of cuts placed on them.

i think the police force is becoming a buisness, making money from fines is the in thing at the moment, theres no money in catching a killer, no more clips across the ear hole its money now. fines . fines . fines. money money money

They kinda need the money now since they've been hit by cuts.