Is OUR DEBT REALLY REACHING 100MILLION?

Firstly its ridiculous, however given the state of the world economy it's hard to believe really how much fraud and debt has been allowed to toll up directly via businessmen, taxes and fraud transactions. Are we really that stupid?

why doesnt someone turn around and say, look.... we've fucked up BIG TIME, lets print 16 out trillion and start from scratch.

Answer : of course that could be done!...., but its about controlling the masses crippling people with debts, for power.
what does this have to do with football ? Absoloutely F*k all !

anyway on to my point - If we're really 100 million in debt we might as well spend another 10 million in january of this imaginary money, get payed off for promotion pay off half of the debt. being as tan is so loyal to us he wont mind using that money to help out cardiff city whom he really cares for.... we can take a stab at reaching Europe... if we fail we go into admin but at least we have had a couple of years in the premier league possibly in Europe.
after that we can go on a reverse journey back around the country visiting old friends, such as mansfield, rochdale stockport, maybe even newport county
soldier on I say and Enjoy regardless

what?!

Money isn't the currency itself. Money in its form is simply an IOU. If you look on the back of paper money it says "I promise to pay the barer x amount" to the value of that note... Tenner, fiver... Whatever.

Our currency is commodities, gold namely.

You could by rights go into a bank with a fifty quid note and demand that in gold, cash in your IOU as it were. So really there should only be as much British sterling in circulation as there is in British owned gold. However this isn't the case and why the economy is shafted as there is more money in circulation than the actual commodity itself, which is affecting the value of your IOU notes.

By printing more money effectively ruins what you are trying to do in the first place and the economy would be in tatters. But the monetary system is fraudulent in itself and creates debt.

But that's just scratching the surface, it runs far more deeply than that. But that's in a nutshell why you can't just print more money

anyway on to my point - If we're really 100 million in debt we might as well spend another 10 million in january of this imaginary money, get payed off for promotion pay off half of the debt. being as tan is so loyal to us he wont mind using that money to help out cardiff city whom he really cares for.... we can take a stab at reaching Europe... if we fail we go into admin but at least we have had a couple of years in the premier league possibly in Europe.
after that we can go on a reverse journey back around the country visiting old friends, such as mansfield, rochdale stockport, maybe even newport county
soldier on I say and Enjoy regardless

Your debt would not half with promotion to the Premier League, infact if anything it would rise. Very few Premier League clubs actually make money as they feel the need to rise wages astronomically to compete and Cardiff would almost certainly do this.

Your £100 million debt, along with selling your soul would just be the price of getting to the Premier League should you get promoted.

anyway on to my point - If we're really 100 million in debt we might as well spend another 10 million in january of this imaginary money, get payed off for promotion pay off half of the debt. being as tan is so loyal to us he wont mind using that money to help out cardiff city whom he really cares for.... we can take a stab at reaching Europe... if we fail we go into admin but at least we have had a couple of years in the premier league possibly in Europe.
after that we can go on a reverse journey back around the country visiting old friends, such as mansfield, rochdale stockport, maybe even newport county
soldier on I say and Enjoy regardless

Your debt would not half with promotion to the Premier League, infact if anything it would rise. Very few Premier League clubs actually make money as they feel the need to rise wages astronomically to compete and Cardiff would almost certainly do this.

Your £100 million debt, along with selling your soul would just be the price of getting to the Premier League should you get promoted.

totally agree

£50m + will go on wages and the promotion bonuses straight off the bat.

Anyone who thinks promotion will do anything other than increase the debt is deluded.

£50m + will go on wages and the promotion bonuses straight off the bat.

Anyone who thinks promotion will do anything other than increase the debt is deluded.

Okay, so lets stamp our feet, blow a fuse, throw a party, darn a sock. FFS, it's like being told you are going to die one day, there is f**k all you or I can do about it. The one's who own the club will do what they do.
Keep banging your drum though, it will not get us out of debt.
We all know you want to tell the world, and the world now knows, but for f**k sake SHUT THE f**k UP!!


Nah only kidding Magic, you keep going.

£50m + will go on wages and the promotion bonuses straight off the bat.

Anyone who thinks promotion will do anything other than increase the debt is deluded.

Okay, so lets stamp our feet, blow a fuse, throw a party, darn a sock. FFS, it's like being told you are going to die one day, there is f**k all you or I can do about it. The one's who own the club will do what they do.
Keep banging your drum though, it will not get us out of debt.
We all know you want to tell the world, and the world now knows, but for f**k sake SHUT THE f**k UP!!


Nah only kidding Magic, you keep going.

You were told at the time and everyone had the chance to stop it... But they have begged for this.

Made... made... in... it... lie

Firstly its ridiculous, however given the state of the world economy it's hard to believe really how much fraud and debt has been allowed to toll up directly via businessmen, taxes and fraud transactions. Are we really that stupid?

why doesnt someone turn around and say, look.... we've fucked up BIG TIME, lets print 16 out trillion and start from scratch.

Answer : of course that could be done!...., but its about controlling the masses crippling people with debts, for power.
what does this have to do with football ? Absoloutely F*k all !

anyway on to my point - If we're really 100 million in debt we might as well spend another 10 million in january of this imaginary money, get payed off for promotion pay off half of the debt. being as tan is so loyal to us he wont mind using that money to help out cardiff city whom he really cares for.... we can take a stab at reaching Europe... if we fail we go into admin but at least we have had a couple of years in the premier league possibly in Europe.
after that we can go on a reverse journey back around the country visiting old friends, such as mansfield, rochdale stockport, maybe even newport county
soldier on I say and Enjoy regardless

you sir are a financial genius , you should contact the bank of England and the royal mint ASAP and get the ball rolling

anyway on to my point - If we're really 100 million in debt we might as well spend another 10 million in january of this imaginary money, get payed off for promotion pay off half of the debt. being as tan is so loyal to us he wont mind using that money to help out cardiff city whom he really cares for.... we can take a stab at reaching Europe... if we fail we go into admin but at least we have had a couple of years in the premier league possibly in Europe.
after that we can go on a reverse journey back around the country visiting old friends, such as mansfield, rochdale stockport, maybe even newport county
soldier on I say and Enjoy regardless

Your debt would not half with promotion to the Premier League, infact if anything it would rise. Very few Premier League clubs actually make money as they feel the need to rise wages astronomically to compete and Cardiff would almost certainly do this.

Your £100 million debt, along with selling your soul would just be the price of getting to the Premier League should you get promoted.

What about going into administration and telling everyone (including all local businesses) to f**k off we are not paying you, but spending the money on foreign players and lining their own pockets?

Perhaps we could get the council to build us a ground and fund it for us?

We could get a council place, built and maintaned at no cost to ourselves, then pretend we are a well run club that controls our finances, while taking the piss out of others who try to pay off their debts and not rip off everyone who came into contact with them.

Obviously the gypos have a cracking business plan that we should have followed.

anyway on to my point - If we're really 100 million in debt we might as well spend another 10 million in january of this imaginary money, get payed off for promotion pay off half of the debt. being as tan is so loyal to us he wont mind using that money to help out cardiff city whom he really cares for.... we can take a stab at reaching Europe... if we fail we go into admin but at least we have had a couple of years in the premier league possibly in Europe.
after that we can go on a reverse journey back around the country visiting old friends, such as mansfield, rochdale stockport, maybe even newport county
soldier on I say and Enjoy regardless

Your debt would not half with promotion to the Premier League, infact if anything it would rise. Very few Premier League clubs actually make money as they feel the need to rise wages astronomically to compete and Cardiff would almost certainly do this.

Your £100 million debt, along with selling your soul would just be the price of getting to the Premier League should you get promoted.

What about going into administration and telling everyone (including all local businesses) to f**k off we are not paying you, but spending the money on foreign players and lining their own pockets?

swansea went into administration instead of borrowing money they knew they wouldn't be able to pay back. In the end the sum was 60k. They didnt sign any players for a fee for years after that, never mind lining their own pockets. How Jenkins and the other directors didnt take a wage even Until they got to he championship. It's one thing to have a go at them, it's another to just make stuff up.

Perhaps we could get the council to build us a ground and fund it for us?

the council gifted us the land in order for us to build the CCS.

We could get a council place, built and maintaned at no cost to ourselves, then pretend we are a well run club that controls our finances, while taking the piss out of others who try to pay off their debts and not rip off everyone who came into contact with them.

if we were paying our debts then why are we trying to rip Sam Hamam off to the tune of £20m and why are our debts piling up if we are paying them? Swansea have on,y spent weather physically have for over a decade, that's commendable especially in his climate and with the rise they have achieved with that policy. Anyone who denies they are a fantastically well run club is either a moron or biased in the extreme,

Obviously the gypos have a cracking business plan that we should have followed.

clearly. They ended up not paying 60k while we have continued to gamble with other people's money and now owe £100m which we know we can't pay back, and that is rising daily,

precisely the wages are going to go up... its going to spiral us more into debt, player wages and more money spent..

So my point being we might as well spend another 10 million in january to get promotion anyway , because etiher way we're fucked in 5-10 years so we might as well enjoy a visit to the prem

so how do you? fans, or anyone regarding cardiff city fooball club expect the debt to be paid off.. ..
do you think tan is going to invest 15 per cent of his income just to clear our debts?

precisely the wages are going to go up... its going to spiral us more into debt, player wages and more money spent..

So my point being we might as well spend another 10 million in january to get promotion anyway , because etiher way we're fucked in 5-10 years so we might as well enjoy a visit to the prem

so how do you? fans, or anyone regarding cardiff city fooball club expect the debt to be paid off.. ..
do you think tan is going to invest 15 per cent of his income just to clear our debts?

How can you enjoy a visit to the prem knowing the club is about to wither and die.

Everyone was aware what was happening when tan was putting his money in and we had a chance to stop it, but we begged for it just for a glimpse of the prem knowing full well the club would be liquidated at some point for the privilege, yet we still begged for it.

90% of our fans don't deserve to be within 100 miles of our club. It's stood for over 100 years and they feel they have the right to kill the club just to see Rooney in the flesh.

Makes me sick. Most pathetic fans in the land.

anyway on to my point - If we're really 100 million in debt we might as well spend another 10 million in january of this imaginary money, get payed off for promotion pay off half of the debt. being as tan is so loyal to us he wont mind using that money to help out cardiff city whom he really cares for.... we can take a stab at reaching Europe... if we fail we go into admin but at least we have had a couple of years in the premier league possibly in Europe.
after that we can go on a reverse journey back around the country visiting old friends, such as mansfield, rochdale stockport, maybe even newport county
soldier on I say and Enjoy regardless

Your debt would not half with promotion to the Premier League, infact if anything it would rise. Very few Premier League clubs actually make money as they feel the need to rise wages astronomically to compete and Cardiff would almost certainly do this.

Your £100 million debt, along with selling your soul would just be the price of getting to the Premier League should you get promoted.

What about going into administration and telling everyone (including all local businesses) to f**k off we are not paying you, but spending the money on foreign players and lining their own pockets?

swansea went into administration instead of borrowing money they knew they wouldn't be able to pay back. In the end the sum was 60k. They didnt sign any players for a fee for years after that, never mind lining their own pockets. How Jenkins and the other directors didnt take a wage even Until they got to he championship. It's one thing to have a go at them, it's another to just make stuff up.

Perhaps we could get the council to build us a ground and fund it for us?

the council gifted us the land in order for us to build the CCS.

We could get a council place, built and maintaned at no cost to ourselves, then pretend we are a well run club that controls our finances, while taking the piss out of others who try to pay off their debts and not rip off everyone who came into contact with them.

if we were paying our debts then why are we trying to rip Sam Hamam off to the tune of £20m and why are our debts piling up if we are paying them? Swansea have on,y spent weather physically have for over a decade, that's commendable especially in his climate and with the rise they have achieved with that policy. Anyone who denies they are a fantastically well run club is either a moron or biased in the extreme,

Obviously the gypos have a cracking business plan that we should have followed.

clearly. They ended up not paying 60k while we have continued to gamble with other people's money and now owe £100m which we know we can't pay back, and that is rising daily,

Scumsea went into administration instead of borrowing money they could not afford to pay off? Strange that. You mean no one would lend them the money. Where did the money come from to "start" again? How did they keep going? They went into administration to clear their debts and then started again debt free.
Not what I call good honest business practice.

Huw the spew's own business went bust as well, owing over £500,000, so he is no stranger to this type of business dealing. Infact wasn't he running a business from his office in the council owned, run and maintained stadium? Good business plan if you can get away with it. I wonder how many other private businesses would like to have offices/admin costs paid by the local council? I know I would. What about a certain person (initials MN, who has some dodgy involvement - allegedly of course, in all of their dealings?).

As far as I was aware, the land at Cardiff City is still owned by the council as they control what happens on it. It is on a peppercorn rent which rises at set dates and with a big bonus if city are promoted to the EPL. So the council will get a lot of money from a "wasteland" area that has now been developed at no cost to themselves. They will also be getting huge business rates from the area's shops. Whereas the ladyboys stadium was built by the council at no cost to the football club, but is that surprising, if as you say they could not afford to pay off/borrow £60,000, how could they ever afford to build and maintain a football ground?

How are the club ripping off Sam Hammam? We do not owe him any money. HE says we owe Langston money (remember he says he is not Langston), but cannot really say why we owe them money. So according to SH we owe a company with dodgy credentials, that no one admits to actually owning. From previous posts it seems even the documents are not proerly authenticated.
Therefore if the club owe £20 million to SH why does he not admit to his involvement with Langston Corp. Unless of course they do not owe it to him. He cannot have it both ways.
Every time debts are mentioned another £10 million is added to them. If SH and his unsecured debts are removed, then VT does as he says, the club will have no debts.

Scumsea went into administration instead of borrowing money they could not afford to pay off? Strange that. You mean no one would lend them the money. Where did the money come from to "start" again? How did they keep going? They went into administration to clear their debts and then started again debt free.
Not what I call good honest business practice.

how do you know they tried to borrow money? You clearly just made that up.

What do you mean where did the money come from? Ticket sales, sponsorship, merchandise... The same as where any other club gets its money from. They went into administration as they couldn't afford to continue trading. They laid off a dozen first team players as a result. Since then they have achieved promotion from the bottom of league 2 to the premier league without going over a prudent budget in wages or transfer fees to ensure it never happens again. They were consistently one of the lowest payers in each of the leagues they have been in for the last decade.

Huw the spew's own business went bust as well, owing over £500,000, so he is no stranger to this type of business dealing. Infact wasn't he running a business from his office in the council owned, run and maintained stadium? Good business plan if you can get away with it. I wonder how many other private businesses would like to have offices/admin costs paid by the local council? I know I would. What about a certain person (initials MN, who has some dodgy involvement - allegedly of course, in all of their dealings?).

what has that got to do with anything? How wasn't the one that took Swansea into administration I have no idea what you are getting at regarding Swansea concil backing their football club, why is that a negative km the club or the chairman? As I told you, the only reason we have a new stadium is because our council gifted us the land.

As far as I was aware, the land at Cardiff City is still owned by the council as they control what happens on it. It is on a peppercorn rent which rises at set dates and with a big bonus if city are promoted to the EPL. So the council will get a lot of money from a "wasteland" area that has now been developed at no cost to themselves. They will also be getting huge business rates from the area's shops. Whereas the ladyboys stadium was built by the council at no cost to the football club, but is that surprising, if as you say they could not afford to pay off/borrow £60,000, how could they ever afford to build and maintain a football ground?

so they allowed us to use their land free of charge to build a new stadium on, pretty much what I said. The amount of revenue Swansea s success has brought to the city of Swansea is far more than any peppercorn rent and bonus is worth.

Again I'm not sure again what you are getting at regarding the council wanting to build an arena for their local rugby and football tea, to play in, why would swansea reject it and why are you alluding that its a negative? It's a mutually beneficial deal that I wish we could have done.

How are the club ripping off Sam Hammam? We do not owe him any money. HE says we owe Langston money (remember he says he is not Langston), but cannot really say why we owe them money. So according to SH we owe a company with dodgy credentials, that no one admits to actually owning. From previous posts it seems even the documents are not proerly authenticated.
Therefore if the club owe £20 million to SH why does he not admit to his involvement with Langston Corp. Unless of course they do not owe it to him. He cannot have it both ways.
Every time debts are mentioned another £10 million is added to them. If SH and his unsecured debts are removed, then VT does as he says, the club will have no debts


what a ridiculous post. We owe same/Langston £30m and we want to pay him back £8m and £5m on promotion... That's ripping him off in anyone's books. Certainly more than Swanseas 60k which we borrow every fortnight to give to Craig Bellamy knowing full well we will never be able to pay it back. What you accused Swansea of over a decade ago, we are guilty of right now in a scale 100 times worse. .

:lol: what?!

Money isn't the currency itself. Money in its form is simply an IOU. If you look on the back of paper money it says "I promise to pay the barer x amount" to the value of that note... Tenner, fiver... Whatever.

Our currency is commodities, gold namely.

You could by rights go into a bank with a fifty quid note and demand that in gold, cash in your IOU as it were. So really there should only be as much British sterling in circulation as there is in British owned gold. However this isn't the case and why the economy is shafted as there is more money in circulation than the actual commodity itself, which is affecting the value of your IOU notes.

By printing more money effectively ruins what you are trying to do in the first place and the economy would be in tatters. But the monetary system is fraudulent in itself and creates debt.

But that's just scratching the surface, it runs far more deeply than that. But that's in a nutshell why you can't just print more money

Roath smoking
good afternoon you attention seeking troll.

Your high faluting posts often amuse simply by virtue of your arrogant spouting which masks superficial knowlege of things financial.

Your bullshit does not baffle all brains.

Great Britain came off the Gold Standard in 1931 and I am not aware that any major international currency has been gold based since the 1970's.Fact.

I look forward to your post on fractional reserve banking and it's relationship to the financing of football clubs particularly in view of the quantative easing policies undertaken by the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve Board.

Please try and improve your spelling and grammar as continued sloppiness in this area will result in reduced marks.

:lol: what?!

Money isn't the currency itself. Money in its form is simply an IOU. If you look on the back of paper money it says "I promise to pay the barer x amount" to the value of that note... Tenner, fiver... Whatever.

Our currency is commodities, gold namely.

You could by rights go into a bank with a fifty quid note and demand that in gold, cash in your IOU as it were. So really there should only be as much British sterling in circulation as there is in British owned gold. However this isn't the case and why the economy is shafted as there is more money in circulation than the actual commodity itself, which is affecting the value of your IOU notes.

By printing more money effectively ruins what you are trying to do in the first place and the economy would be in tatters. But the monetary system is fraudulent in itself and creates debt.

But that's just scratching the surface, it runs far more deeply than that. But that's in a nutshell why you can't just print more money

Roath smoking
good afternoon you attention seeking troll.

Your high faluting posts often amuse simply by virtue of your arrogant spouting which masks superficial knowlege of things financial.

Your bullshit does not baffle all brains.

Great Britain came off the Gold Standard in 1931 and I am not aware that any major international currency has been gold based since the 1970's.Fact.

I look forward to your post on fractional reserve banking and it's relationship to the financing of football clubs particularly in view of the quantative easing policies undertaken by the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve Board.

Please try and improve your spelling and grammar as continued sloppiness in this area will result in reduced marks.

To enter a CVA, like Swansea done in 2002, 75% of the people that are owed money have to agree to the terms, in Swansea's case it was 5p in the pound, from memory 82% voted for this agreement so that the club could be saved, one or two didn't agree, some were on the payroll at the club, in fact one had appointed his own over inflated salary hoping to get more out of the club when a takeover happened, it backfired.... no names but any Swansea fans reading this who were around at the time will know who I mean.

To enter a CVA, like Swansea done in 2002, 75% of the people that are owed money have to agree to the terms, in Swansea's case it was 5p in the pound, from memory 82% voted for this agreement so that the club could be saved, one or two didn't agree, some were on the payroll at the club, in fact one had appointed his own over inflated salary hoping to get more out of the club when a takeover happened, it backfired.... no names but any Swansea fans reading this who were around at the time will know who I mean.

Was that you're manager? The one with the cheesy smile and packets of crisps.

The acceptance of the CVA was not voluntary, many were persuaded to accept.
Also Mr Pety (sp) was encouraged to leave as well.

To enter a CVA, like Swansea done in 2002, 75% of the people that are owed money have to agree to the terms, in Swansea's case it was 5p in the pound, from memory 82% voted for this agreement so that the club could be saved, one or two didn't agree, some were on the payroll at the club, in fact one had appointed his own over inflated salary hoping to get more out of the club when a takeover happened, it backfired.... no names but any Swansea fans reading this who were around at the time will know who I mean.

Was that you're manager? The one with the cheesy smile and packets of crisps.

The acceptance of the CVA was not voluntary, many were persuaded to accept.
Also Mr Pety (sp) was encouraged to leave as well.

Petty was forced out, like we should have done to tan.... Now look at us.

As for the cva, hardly much persuading needed... Do you want some money back or the club go under and get nothing?

To enter a CVA, like Swansea done in 2002, 75% of the people that are owed money have to agree to the terms, in Swansea's case it was 5p in the pound, from memory 82% voted for this agreement so that the club could be saved, one or two didn't agree, some were on the payroll at the club, in fact one had appointed his own over inflated salary hoping to get more out of the club when a takeover happened, it backfired.... no names but any Swansea fans reading this who were around at the time will know who I mean.

Was that you're manager? The one with the cheesy smile and packets of crisps.

The acceptance of the CVA was not voluntary, many were persuaded to accept.
Also Mr Pety (sp) was encouraged to leave as well.

Petty was forced out, like we should have done to tan.... Now look at us.

As for the cva, hardly much persuading needed... Do you want some money back or the club go under and get nothing?

Most were Swansea business men who, whilst wanted their money, didn't want to see the Swans go under, so I suppose you could say there was a bit of emotional blackmail, hey ho
4 or 5 years ago, we told you to take stock, except a 10 point deduction but more importantly to stop borrowing and live within your means, at that time you had a chance to do it, I fear its far too late now.

Haven't you heard? There's a sultan on the scene now, we are saved!

Haven't you heard? There's a sultan on the scene now, we are saved!

I think this thread was started to remind Cardiff fans that the PL isn't going to be the cash cow they think its going to be, does the Sultan fancy the 7% interest too?

To enter a CVA, like Swansea done in 2002, 75% of the people that are owed money have to agree to the terms, in Swansea's case it was 5p in the pound, from memory 82% voted for this agreement so that the club could be saved, one or two didn't agree, some were on the payroll at the club, in fact one had appointed his own over inflated salary hoping to get more out of the club when a takeover happened, it backfired.... no names but any Swansea fans reading this who were around at the time will know who I mean.

Was that you're manager? The one with the cheesy smile and packets of crisps.

The acceptance of the CVA was not voluntary, many were persuaded to accept.
Also Mr Pety (sp) was encouraged to leave as well.

Petty was forced out, like we should have done to tan.... Now look at us.

As for the cva, hardly much persuading needed... Do you want some money back or the club go under and get nothing?

Most were Swansea business men who, whilst wanted their money, didn't want to see the Swans go under, so I suppose you could say there was a bit of emotional blackmail, hey ho
4 or 5 years ago, we told you to take stock, except a 10 point deduction but more importantly to stop borrowing and live within your means, at that time you had a chance to do it, I fear its far too late now.

Great idea. If the club goes bust the owners can say it was not their fault but those horrible greedy businessmen that wanted the money that was owed them.

It was not only emotional blackmail as you call it. There was a bit of physical mentioned as well (as told to me by a senior member of the club, and names were mentioned).

To enter a CVA, like Swansea done in 2002, 75% of the people that are owed money have to agree to the terms, in Swansea's case it was 5p in the pound, from memory 82% voted for this agreement so that the club could be saved, one or two didn't agree, some were on the payroll at the club, in fact one had appointed his own over inflated salary hoping to get more out of the club when a takeover happened, it backfired.... no names but any Swansea fans reading this who were around at the time will know who I mean.

Was that you're manager? The one with the cheesy smile and packets of crisps.

The acceptance of the CVA was not voluntary, many were persuaded to accept.
Also Mr Pety (sp) was encouraged to leave as well.

Petty was forced out, like we should have done to tan.... Now look at us.

As for the cva, hardly much persuading needed... Do you want some money back or the club go under and get nothing?

Most were Swansea business men who, whilst wanted their money, didn't want to see the Swans go under, so I suppose you could say there was a bit of emotional blackmail, hey ho
4 or 5 years ago, we told you to take stock, except a 10 point deduction but more importantly to stop borrowing and live within your means, at that time you had a chance to do it, I fear its far too late now.

Great idea. If the club goes bust the owners can say it was not their fault but those horrible greedy businessmen that wanted the money that was owed them.

It was not only emotional blackmail as you call it. There was a bit of physical mentioned as well (as told to me by a senior member of the club, and names were mentioned).

The thing is, something needed to be done, the people who run up the debt had long since disappeared (Silver Shield, Ninth Floor), the board took decisive action, a business I worked for at the time was on the list of creditors and whilst a chunk of emotional blackmail was used (as said), there was nothing physical FACT