4-0, Top of the League, Hated it.

Utilities?

Yeah a swelec bill for £20 mill you really are clueless.

So you now accept we will lose this money right?

Never said utilities would account for 20m, merely an example of how you can't hold off paying suppliers until you've covered all your wage bill. Fool.

Answer the question...........

So you'd also realise that the £20 million shortfall probably doesn't relate itself to the electricity bill and more the annual contracts the club has, which I pointed out 2 posts ago of course. But continue to take us of on tangents to avoid admitting what you have already aknowledged.... We will lose an awful lot of money whether promoted or not.

As for how swans make a profit, that's something you will have to ask the chairman, it's not of my concern.

So you don't know .All this scaremongering about making a 20m loss in the prem and you can't back it up apart from your fag packet nonsense. So no i dont agree we have to make a loss in the prem, or even if we do then will it be any more than other clubs. Maybe like other clubs we will have to sell a player or players, maybe the Malaysians will mean we won't have to. Maybe we will cut our cloth accordingly. Maybe we will tap into new revenue streams. Like I said do I worry about your tosh or put faith in the billionaires?
Give it up Roath you're full of shit

So I don't know what? The inner workings of Swansea city's finances? No I don't, what's your point. If I was to guess I'd say they save a large amount of money on the stadia, they were in proportion in terms of wages in the championship so the 100% increase in wages was still relatively low for a prem club. We are paying our players 106% of our total revenue so when promoted they will expect the same % increase at the next level that other promoted teams give out. But again that's just a guess, but what we do KNOW is that we will make a £20m circa loss if promoted and every season thereafter heading only to one thing.


But considering you have now gone back and said you dont think we will make a loss we are then back to square one....

If the wage bill is to jump to 40m and the cost of promotion is £10m..... Then where is the money coming for the new players (13m average spend by a newly promoted side) and the running costs of a premier league club (18m per annum). That's 31m extra than the income of a newly promoted prem team. Next year the tv deal goes up by 11m meaning there is a 20m shortfall.

Simple.

Oh and he's not a billionaire, nowhere near it. Just saying.

So I don't know what? The inner workings of Swansea city's finances? No I don't, what's your point. If I was to guess I'd say they save a large amount of money on the stadia, they were in proportion in terms of wages in the championship so the 100% increase in wages was still relatively low for a prem club. We are paying our players 106% of our total revenue so when promoted they will expect the same % increase at the next level that other promoted teams give out. But again that's just a guess, but what we do KNOW is that we will make a £20m circa loss if promoted and every season thereafter heading only to one thing.


But considering you have now gone back and said you dont think we will make a loss we are then back to square one....

If the wage bill is to jump to 40m and the cost of promotion is £10m..... Then where is the money coming for the new players (13m average spend by a newly promoted side) and the running costs of a premier league club (18m per annum). That's 31m extra than the income of a newly promoted prem team. Next year the tv deal goes up by 11m meaning there is a 20m shortfall.

Simple.

Oh and he's not a billionaire, nowhere near it. Just saying.

Another long essay from you that could be summarised as "I don't know". I wasn't focussing on Swansea, i referred to any other prem league club. And whatever the increase in wages may be in % terms is irrelevant since you established that the absolute figure for wages was 40m. So basically your 20m is based on a fictitious cost base that you can't explain but leads you to assume we will be somehow different to all other clubs. I never said we wouldn't make a loss, I merely pointed out there may be factors that meant it may not be inevitable.

I could point out that transfer fees are amortised over the length of the registration, do a 13m spend in the accounts could be as low as 3m, so there's 10m less. of course the next year we may spend the same, but then as per your beloved Swansea we may end up selling a player that offsets the new spend and more. We just don't know.

So let's try again. Will Cardiff be the only prem league club to make a loss? And if do why? Please feel free to admit you're talking nonsense, come up with the reason or give it up.

Simple.

So I don't know what? The inner workings of Swansea city's finances? No I don't, what's your point. If I was to guess I'd say they save a large amount of money on the stadia, they were in proportion in terms of wages in the championship so the 100% increase in wages was still relatively low for a prem club. We are paying our players 106% of our total revenue so when promoted they will expect the same % increase at the next level that other promoted teams give out. But again that's just a guess, but what we do KNOW is that we will make a £20m circa loss if promoted and every season thereafter heading only to one thing.


But considering you have now gone back and said you dont think we will make a loss we are then back to square one....

If the wage bill is to jump to 40m and the cost of promotion is £10m..... Then where is the money coming for the new players (13m average spend by a newly promoted side) and the running costs of a premier league club (18m per annum). That's 31m extra than the income of a newly promoted prem team. Next year the tv deal goes up by 11m meaning there is a 20m shortfall.

Simple.

Oh and he's not a billionaire, nowhere near it. Just saying.

Another long essay from you that could be summarised as "I don't know".

i think my reply was far from "I don't know" I comprehensively explained why we would make a loss, which is the whole point of the current debate is it not?

I wasn't focussing on Swansea, i referred to any other prem league club. And whatever the increase in wages may be in % terms is irrelevant since you established that the absolute figure for wages was 40m.

No i didnt, i said our wage would go to £40m based on the % increase in wage expenditure when a team is promoted. if we are paying bellamy 30k a week then he isnt going to accept staying on the same wage is he? where as teams such as swansea were in their wage structure in the championship so could cope with it after they went up.

So basically your 20m is based on a fictitious cost base that you can't explain but leads you to assume we will be somehow different to all other clubs. I never said we wouldn't make a loss, I merely pointed out there may be factors that meant it may not be inevitable.

No, my £20 million is the same publicised and well known £15 million shortfall from this year carried to next plus more as the income doesn't cover the extra expenditure upon promotion I.e. bonuses. I really don't understand which part of that is confusing you. Do the maths.

I could point out that transfer fees are amortised over the length of the registration, do a 13m spend in the accounts could be as low as 3m, so there's 10m less. of course the next year we may spend the same, but then as per your beloved Swansea we may end up selling a player that offsets the new spend and more. We just don't know.

You could indeed. We spend £12 million on players this year which if a amortised would also be a cost I didn't take into next years budget. I agree we don't know if we will sell players to cover the shortfall, but the point is nobody does. That isn't a business plan, it's an opportunity that may arise in the future but also equally may not.

So let's try again. Will Cardiff be the only prem league club to make a loss? And if do why? Please feel free to admit you're talking nonsense, come up with the reason or give it up.

Absolutely not. But if the question is "will Cardiff be the only premier league club to make a loss that is serviceable in the long term" then I'd answer you that Cardiff probably will be. A club the size of Cardiff to be making £20 million losses per season on top of an already near £100m debt is disastrous.

Simple.

Certainly is

So I don't know what? The inner workings of Swansea city's finances? No I don't, what's your point. If I was to guess I'd say they save a large amount of money on the stadia, they were in proportion in terms of wages in the championship so the 100% increase in wages was still relatively low for a prem club. We are paying our players 106% of our total revenue so when promoted they will expect the same % increase at the next level that other promoted teams give out. But again that's just a guess, but what we do KNOW is that we will make a £20m circa loss if promoted and every season thereafter heading only to one thing.


But considering you have now gone back and said you dont think we will make a loss we are then back to square one....

If the wage bill is to jump to 40m and the cost of promotion is £10m..... Then where is the money coming for the new players (13m average spend by a newly promoted side) and the running costs of a premier league club (18m per annum). That's 31m extra than the income of a newly promoted prem team. Next year the tv deal goes up by 11m meaning there is a 20m shortfall.

Simple.

Oh and he's not a billionaire, nowhere near it. Just saying.

Another long essay from you that could be summarised as "I don't know".

i think my reply was far from "I don't know" I comprehensively explained why we would make a loss, which is the whole point of the current debate is it not?

I wasn't focussing on Swansea, i referred to any other prem league club. And whatever the increase in wages may be in % terms is irrelevant since you established that the absolute figure for wages was 40m.

No i didnt, i said our wage would go to £40m based on the % increase in wage expenditure when a team is promoted. if we are paying bellamy 30k a week then he isnt going to accept staying on the same wage is he? where as teams such as swansea were in their wage structure in the championship so could cope with it after they went up.

So basically your 20m is based on a fictitious cost base that you can't explain but leads you to assume we will be somehow different to all other clubs. I never said we wouldn't make a loss, I merely pointed out there may be factors that meant it may not be inevitable.

No, my £20 million is the same publicised and well known £15 million shortfall from this year carried to next plus more as the income doesn't cover the extra expenditure upon promotion I.e. bonuses. I really don't understand which part of that is confusing you. Do the maths.

I could point out that transfer fees are amortised over the length of the registration, do a 13m spend in the accounts could be as low as 3m, so there's 10m less. of course the next year we may spend the same, but then as per your beloved Swansea we may end up selling a player that offsets the new spend and more. We just don't know.

You could indeed. We spend £12 million on players this year which if a amortised would also be a cost I didn't take into next years budget. I agree we don't know if we will sell players to cover the shortfall, but the point is nobody does. That isn't a business plan, it's an opportunity that may arise in the future but also equally may not.

So let's try again. Will Cardiff be the only prem league club to make a loss? And if do why? Please feel free to admit you're talking nonsense, come up with the reason or give it up.

Absolutely not. But if the question is "will Cardiff be the only premier league club to make a loss that is serviceable in the long term" then I'd answer you that Cardiff probably will be. A club the size of Cardiff to be making £20 million losses per season on top of an already near £100m debt is disastrous.

Simple.

Certainly is

You've proved nothing
It may well be disastrous if it happens, but since we don't know it's going to happen other than your fag packet figures then why get yourself into a spin over it? Opportunities to reduce our cost base e.g some one off costs not repeated, additional commercial opportunities inc sponsorship, selling players if need be, all could change our financial landscape. Debt to equity will take care of the burden and reduce interest payments.

There's plenty going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, so as I said many moons ago, it's all about who you put your faith in. Do I worry about what a bedroom troll posts based on a few numbers and a load more assumptions, or let the real businessmen do what they do best and focus on enjoying a great season of football? Hmmmm, it's the latter for me but then I guess since you're not a Cardiff supporter your mind is made up.

So I don't know what? The inner workings of Swansea city's finances? No I don't, what's your point. If I was to guess I'd say they save a large amount of money on the stadia, they were in proportion in terms of wages in the championship so the 100% increase in wages was still relatively low for a prem club. We are paying our players 106% of our total revenue so when promoted they will expect the same % increase at the next level that other promoted teams give out. But again that's just a guess, but what we do KNOW is that we will make a £20m circa loss if promoted and every season thereafter heading only to one thing.


But considering you have now gone back and said you dont think we will make a loss we are then back to square one....

If the wage bill is to jump to 40m and the cost of promotion is £10m..... Then where is the money coming for the new players (13m average spend by a newly promoted side) and the running costs of a premier league club (18m per annum). That's 31m extra than the income of a newly promoted prem team. Next year the tv deal goes up by 11m meaning there is a 20m shortfall.

Simple.

Oh and he's not a billionaire, nowhere near it. Just saying.

Another long essay from you that could be summarised as "I don't know".

i think my reply was far from "I don't know" I comprehensively explained why we would make a loss, which is the whole point of the current debate is it not?

I wasn't focussing on Swansea, i referred to any other prem league club. And whatever the increase in wages may be in % terms is irrelevant since you established that the absolute figure for wages was 40m.

No i didnt, i said our wage would go to £40m based on the % increase in wage expenditure when a team is promoted. if we are paying bellamy 30k a week then he isnt going to accept staying on the same wage is he? where as teams such as swansea were in their wage structure in the championship so could cope with it after they went up.

So basically your 20m is based on a fictitious cost base that you can't explain but leads you to assume we will be somehow different to all other clubs. I never said we wouldn't make a loss, I merely pointed out there may be factors that meant it may not be inevitable.

No, my £20 million is the same publicised and well known £15 million shortfall from this year carried to next plus more as the income doesn't cover the extra expenditure upon promotion I.e. bonuses. I really don't understand which part of that is confusing you. Do the maths.

I could point out that transfer fees are amortised over the length of the registration, do a 13m spend in the accounts could be as low as 3m, so there's 10m less. of course the next year we may spend the same, but then as per your beloved Swansea we may end up selling a player that offsets the new spend and more. We just don't know.

You could indeed. We spend £12 million on players this year which if a amortised would also be a cost I didn't take into next years budget. I agree we don't know if we will sell players to cover the shortfall, but the point is nobody does. That isn't a business plan, it's an opportunity that may arise in the future but also equally may not.

So let's try again. Will Cardiff be the only prem league club to make a loss? And if do why? Please feel free to admit you're talking nonsense, come up with the reason or give it up.

Absolutely not. But if the question is "will Cardiff be the only premier league club to make a loss that is serviceable in the long term" then I'd answer you that Cardiff probably will be. A club the size of Cardiff to be making £20 million losses per season on top of an already near £100m debt is disastrous.

Simple.

Certainly is

You've proved nothing

I've proved we will make a substantial loss, promoted or not.

It may well be disastrous if it happens, but since we don't know it's going to happen other than your fag packet figures then why get yourself into a spin over it? Opportunities to reduce our cost base e.g some one off costs not repeated, additional commercial opportunities inc sponsorship, selling players if need be, all could change our financial landscape. Debt to equity will take care of the burden and reduce interest payments.

but we do know its going to happen. We know what our income will be if promoted and we will also know our outgoings. Sponsorship and commercial opportunities is already accounted for in the income I have set. It is based on the average income of a newly promoted side for their premier league campaign. Debt to equity doesn't make sense and has never made sense, even if it does happen it won't affect our losses as we aren't currently paying th interest, it is just getting added on. We will still be losing £20m a year which will then of course be pure debt again.

There's plenty going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, so as I said many moons ago, it's all about who you put your faith in. Do I worry about what a bedroom troll posts based on a few numbers and a load more assumptions, or let the real businessmen do what they do best and focus on enjoying a great season of football? Hmmmm, it's the latter for me but then I guess since you're not a Cardiff supporter your mind is made up.

it isn't about putting faith in anything, it's about looking at the figures and realising that it isn't going to work. I haven't assumed anything, these figures are based on existing numbers and numbers we know from next season in terms of contracts. The real businessmen? First off you know nothing about me (ironically, apart from your assumptions) and the "real businessmen" just allowed £190m get wiped off their value of their current business and £80m by holding onto shares too long. They are far from model businessmen, I'd hazard to say they are influential people in a very rich country, and they have as much experience in running a football club as crusty the clown.... None.

:(

Awwwwww bless you. Go take down train numbers from the train platform then! Take up a new hobby if its depressing you that much

So I don't know what? The inner workings of Swansea city's finances? No I don't, what's your point. If I was to guess I'd say they save a large amount of money on the stadia, they were in proportion in terms of wages in the championship so the 100% increase in wages was still relatively low for a prem club. We are paying our players 106% of our total revenue so when promoted they will expect the same % increase at the next level that other promoted teams give out. But again that's just a guess, but what we do KNOW is that we will make a £20m circa loss if promoted and every season thereafter heading only to one thing.


But considering you have now gone back and said you dont think we will make a loss we are then back to square one....

If the wage bill is to jump to 40m and the cost of promotion is £10m..... Then where is the money coming for the new players (13m average spend by a newly promoted side) and the running costs of a premier league club (18m per annum). That's 31m extra than the income of a newly promoted prem team. Next year the tv deal goes up by 11m meaning there is a 20m shortfall.

Simple.

Oh and he's not a billionaire, nowhere near it. Just saying.

Another long essay from you that could be summarised as "I don't know".

i think my reply was far from "I don't know" I comprehensively explained why we would make a loss, which is the whole point of the current debate is it not?

I wasn't focussing on Swansea, i referred to any other prem league club. And whatever the increase in wages may be in % terms is irrelevant since you established that the absolute figure for wages was 40m.

No i didnt, i said our wage would go to £40m based on the % increase in wage expenditure when a team is promoted. if we are paying bellamy 30k a week then he isnt going to accept staying on the same wage is he? where as teams such as swansea were in their wage structure in the championship so could cope with it after they went up.

So basically your 20m is based on a fictitious cost base that you can't explain but leads you to assume we will be somehow different to all other clubs. I never said we wouldn't make a loss, I merely pointed out there may be factors that meant it may not be inevitable.

No, my £20 million is the same publicised and well known £15 million shortfall from this year carried to next plus more as the income doesn't cover the extra expenditure upon promotion I.e. bonuses. I really don't understand which part of that is confusing you. Do the maths.

I could point out that transfer fees are amortised over the length of the registration, do a 13m spend in the accounts could be as low as 3m, so there's 10m less. of course the next year we may spend the same, but then as per your beloved Swansea we may end up selling a player that offsets the new spend and more. We just don't know.

You could indeed. We spend £12 million on players this year which if a amortised would also be a cost I didn't take into next years budget. I agree we don't know if we will sell players to cover the shortfall, but the point is nobody does. That isn't a business plan, it's an opportunity that may arise in the future but also equally may not.

So let's try again. Will Cardiff be the only prem league club to make a loss? And if do why? Please feel free to admit you're talking nonsense, come up with the reason or give it up.

Absolutely not. But if the question is "will Cardiff be the only premier league club to make a loss that is serviceable in the long term" then I'd answer you that Cardiff probably will be. A club the size of Cardiff to be making £20 million losses per season on top of an already near £100m debt is disastrous.

Simple.

Certainly is

You've proved nothing

I've proved we will make a substantial loss, promoted or not.

It may well be disastrous if it happens, but since we don't know it's going to happen other than your fag packet figures then why get yourself into a spin over it? Opportunities to reduce our cost base e.g some one off costs not repeated, additional commercial opportunities inc sponsorship, selling players if need be, all could change our financial landscape. Debt to equity will take care of the burden and reduce interest payments.

but we do know its going to happen. We know what our income will be if promoted and we will also know our outgoings. Sponsorship and commercial opportunities is already accounted for in the income I have set. It is based on the average income of a newly promoted side for their premier league campaign. Debt to equity doesn't make sense and has never made sense, even if it does happen it won't affect our losses as we aren't currently paying th interest, it is just getting added on. We will still be losing £20m a year which will then of course be pure debt again.

There's plenty going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, so as I said many moons ago, it's all about who you put your faith in. Do I worry about what a bedroom troll posts based on a few numbers and a load more assumptions, or let the real businessmen do what they do best and focus on enjoying a great season of football? Hmmmm, it's the latter for me but then I guess since you're not a Cardiff supporter your mind is made up.

it isn't about putting faith in anything, it's about looking at the figures and realising that it isn't going to work. I haven't assumed anything, these figures are based on existing numbers and numbers we know from next season in terms of contracts. The real businessmen? First off you know nothing about me (ironically, apart from your assumptions) and the "real businessmen" just allowed £190m get wiped off their value of their current business and £80m by holding onto shares too long. They are far from model businessmen, I'd hazard to say they are influential people in a very rich country, and they have as much experience in running a football club as crusty the clown.... None.

I'm bored now with your conjecture and supposition. Not got you anywhere. As I've said before come back if your ever proved right then your high and mighty stance can be justified. I for one won't be holding my breath though but please feel free to try.......

As for criticising the Malaysians business acumen. Incredible

Oh and I'm a great judge of character

Oh dear.
He's back.
Roath young lad, please do us all a favour and feck off.You are simply re-packaging the crap you spewed out during your last onanistic fit.
You might be getting your usual vile perverted kicks but for the rest of us it's just a bore and your kleenex bill will go through the roof again.Save your energy and your money.

Oh dear.
He's back.
Roath young lad, please do us all a favour and feck off.You are simply re-packaging the crap you spewed out during your last onanistic fit.
You might be getting your usual vile perverted kicks but for the rest of us it's just a bore and your kleenex bill will go through the roof again.Save your energy and your money.

He sure is. He's fun to poke with a stick though, always bites. Full of shit mind

I'm bored now with your conjecture and supposition. Not got you anywhere. As I've said before come back if your ever proved right then your high and mighty stance can be justified. I for one won't be holding my breath though but please feel free to try.......

As for criticising the Malaysians business acumen. Incredible

Oh and I'm a great judge of character

It is neither conjecture or supposition. That I'm afraid was your calculations "maybe we can sell a player or tap into a billionaire" mine is based on factual figures regarding our outgoings and income. You may not want to believe it but you have not combated what I've said once, there is no denying that our outgoings will swamp our income and that is the whole point of the thread. How you wish to deal wi that however is a matter of choice, you have gone down the ignorance is bliss route.

As for criticising tans business acumen, I did nothing of the sort. You put all your faith in them because they are rich. Where as I understand that businesses are gambles and many many fail no matter how good your cv is, especially in fields you have never ventured in before. In fact I have more experience in footballing business than tan does and to me and any other business minded person can see that this is not going to work in terms of Cardiff city as a club. As an advertising module for tans other businesses, maybe. But not for the good of Cardiff city the club.

I'm bored now with your conjecture and supposition. Not got you anywhere. As I've said before come back if your ever proved right then your high and mighty stance can be justified. I for one won't be holding my breath though but please feel free to try.......

As for criticising the Malaysians business acumen. Incredible

Oh and I'm a great judge of character

It is neither conjecture or supposition. That I'm afraid was your calculations "maybe we can sell a player or tap into a billionaire" mine is based on factual figures regarding our outgoings and income. You may not want to believe it but you have not combated what I've said once, there is no denying that our outgoings will swamp our income and that is the whole point of the thread. How you wish to deal wi that however is a matter of choice, you have gone down the ignorance is bliss route.

As for criticising tans business acumen, I did nothing of the sort. You put all your faith in them because they are rich. Where as I understand that businesses are gambles and many many fail no matter how good your cv is, especially in fields you have never ventured in before. In fact I have more experience in footballing business than tan does and to me and any other business minded person can see that this is not going to work in terms of Cardiff city as a club. As an advertising module for tans other businesses, maybe. But not for the good of Cardiff city the club.

Keep holding your breath...........

What an odd response

Keep holding your breath...........

What an odd response

I think it's just wishful thinking.

I have to say that was one of the best performances I've seen from City in years and years . Quality passing, super sharp a joy to watch

I have to say that was one of the best performances I've seen from City in years and years . Quality passing, super sharp a joy to watch

Agreed. Glad you enjoyed. Maybe you even smiled a bit....