Is it time for a second tier? (Internationals)

As I watched Scotland put up a decent fight last night before the inevitable goals came for Belgium, I got thinking to a conversation I had a few weeks ago, whether or not it's time for an overhaul of the International scene? Much in the way that Rubgy has different levels when it comes to the 7's competitions, cup, bowl and plate, could football do the same?

At the moment, with the way the seedings etc. work, many teams are up against it from the minute the draw is made, the luck of the draw is long gone with the amount of TV money and vested interests in the game, so how about a second level of competition? Or even a second and a third? This way, supporters of the less successful countries could have more realistic expectations and targets, less matches with the likes of (for example) Spain v San Marino and more competitive matches across the board. If a team is too strong at one level, they are bumped up to the next one (Like Tennis with the Davis Cup)

Or, would it kill the ambition for some teams to improve? Personally, I think it could work although I do have reservations, just interested if anyone else has a view?

I reckon put all the teams into a hat and just draw them out. no seedings

I reckon put all the teams into a hat and just draw them out. no seedings

I agree 100%, but I can't see the powers that be ever letting that happen. I think the reason that the Wales v Scotland match generated a bit more excitement though, was the fact that there was a fairly level playing field.

I reckon put all the teams into a hat and just draw them out. no seedings

I agree 100%, but I can't see the powers that be ever letting that happen. I think the reason that the Wales v Scotland match generated a bit more excitement though, was the fact that there was a fairly level playing field.

It will never happen as the powers that be want the big boys in the finals if it were pulled out of a hat we could have a few group of deaths leaving poor teams to advance

So, if the Wales team made it to a finals, even at a second level, do you think it would generate a lot of interest? Let's say that winning it meant that you were guaranteed progress to the main World Cup or Euro's?

Personally, I think it would, and I would much rather see Scotland qualify for a tournament with at least an outside chance of doing well, rather than getting a pat on the back from the media for being the happy drunks having a party.

They definitely need to think about something like this. Maybe a couple of preliminary games before the group stages like the Champions League. I suppose the problem is then that if any teams like San Marino are knocked out early, what will the do for the rest of the campaign, just play friendlies? And although this would ensure that the weakest sides go out early, a slightly better side like Wales would still suffer from having to really struggle in a group that would have no easy games. You could have a system where first tier teams compete in one group, where perhaps 2 or 3 go through, and second tier teams compete in a group where perhaps just 1 team goes through, but that would still leave teams in the upper tier moaning that they were not given the chance to compete. Possibly, you could have the 3rd placed team in the upper tier playing in a play off with the 2nd placed team in the 2nd tier - that could work. I think a hat for all teams to get picked on would be unworkable - the groups would just be too random.

Here is an idea though - how about a second, truly "World Cup", which is just a straightforward knock-out competition, and probably would not need seeding at all. You just stick all the 160 odd, or whatever it is, teams in a hat, and draw 2 out at a time, like any regular cup competition (eg. FA Cup), and of course, they'd play over 2 legs, or possibly 1 game at a neutral venue, something like that. You could have Brazil v Wales in the first round - of course, quite likely in that situation we'd go out in the 1st round - but great for fans. If we had a couple of easy draws early on, we might go a bit further. I honestly think that this form of competition, alongside the regular World Cup would be extremely popular - and imagine the final and semi finals - those games would be absolutely massive - the final would have more prestige I think than the regular World Cup final.

Some good ideas there, how about this, the qualifiers run as usual, but there is a secondary competition? So, the top two qualify for the World cup, 3rd and 4th place go into the new competition, a bit like finishing 3rd in a Champions League group puts you into the Europa league.

The two competitions could be played parallel but in different locations. For example, the Main World Cup in 2018 is in Russia, so the second competition could be in say, Australia? (Just an example!)

This way, FIFA gets to take tournaments to these developing countries that they are always talking about, more teams get to take part in meaningful competitions, and the qualifiers still carry a bit of excitement, because as it stands, with 6 games each left to play, Scotland and Wales are both out with nothing to play for.

The World Cup would still be given far more exposure and importance as it should be, but the countries with little chance of making the main event would have something to aim for, FIFA would earn from it which is all they really seem to care about...

I think I'm on to something here, anyone got Sepp Blatters number?

(On the other hand, it might just be sour grapes as Scotland are so shit at the moment)

Yes mate - I like that idea as well.

I still think a straightforward knock out competition would be cool too.

Given that the game is now truly Global, it's about time they thought about improving Global international football.

As it stands, club football still takes priority by a long stretch, and a lot of club managers would moan about having to lose players even more if there were more international games. But I think in that case, seasons would have to be better structured so that international games are properly structured within the club league season, rather than a kind of cobbled together approach as it is now.

Yes mate - I like that idea as well.

I still think a straightforward knock out competition would be cool too.

Given that the game is now truly Global, it's about time they thought about improving Global international football.

As it stands, club football still takes priority by a long stretch, and a lot of club managers would moan about having to lose players even more if there were more international games. But I think in that case, seasons would have to be better structured so that international games are properly structured within the club league season, rather than a kind of cobbled together approach as it is now.

Another benefit of the idea above, there will be no more international matches than if the Country had qualified anyway.

If you mean each tier has it's own seperate tournament then why not, at least we'd have a chance at something. If you mean seperate tiers with a certain number of teams qualifying for the WC/Euros from each tier then this will never happen, because FIFA and UEFA always want the big boys in the big international tournaments because it's good for income. How many people would watch a WC group match between Luxembourg and San Marino, apart from the people from those countries?

If you mean each tier has it's own seperate tournament then why not, at least we'd have a chance at something. If you mean seperate tiers with a certain number of teams qualifying for the WC/Euros from each tier then this will never happen, because FIFA and UEFA always want the big boys in the big international tournaments because it's good for income. How many people would watch a WC group match between Luxembourg and San Marino, apart from the people from those countries?

Yep, pretty much. You keep the qualifiers exactly as they are at the moment, but at least have a second tournament for 3rd and 4th place, perhaps a knockout for the others.

Much like if you have ever seen the Rugby 7's, they have the group matches, which decide whether you go onto play in the Cup, the Bowl or the Plate. The cup is the one that everyone wants to win, but for the lesser nations, there is still something to play for.

Absolutely. They should have a load of pre-lims before the group stages like they do with the Champions League.

Do away with all these pointless, meaningless fixtures.

If you mean each tier has it's own seperate tournament then why not, at least we'd have a chance at something. If you mean seperate tiers with a certain number of teams qualifying for the WC/Euros from each tier then this will never happen, because FIFA and UEFA always want the big boys in the big international tournaments because it's good for income. How many people would watch a WC group match between Luxembourg and San Marino, apart from the people from those countries?

Yep, pretty much. You keep the qualifiers exactly as they are at the moment, but at least have a second tournament for 3rd and 4th place, perhaps a knockout for the others.

Much like if you have ever seen the Rugby 7's, they have the group matches, which decide whether you go onto play in the Cup, the Bowl or the Plate. The cup is the one that everyone wants to win, but for the lesser nations, there is still something to play for.

The way you describe it makes me agree with you, we need SOMETHING to at least give very talented players (Bale, Bellamy etc.) a chance at winning on an international stage. There is now no chance of Bellers ever featuring at a major international tournament other than the Olympics just gone and I fear that it will be the same with Bale. Likewise on your end Jordan Rhodes, James Forrest etc. I agree with your idea but can't see FIFA having the gumption to go for it, they're too stuck up to try and cater for the smaller, less successful nations. Shame really.