Time to give the Trust 'teeth'

Whatever ones take is on the rebrand, it's pretty clear that as supporters we need a powerful democratically elected voice that can speak up for us on contentious matters.

Whilst I can't see Tan going back to blue anytime soon, a strong trust will be the best voice to lobby for real compromises in time for next season. By the same token, if what we are seeing at City is merely the thin end of the rebrand wedge and there are more substantial changes still to come, then let's get organised and join this democratically elected body *


http://www.ccfctrust.org/?page_id=223


*that was a party political broadcast on behalf of 'CCST are our best hope of getting a tidy outcome from all this shit'

I agree but not under the disguise on offer.

bakedalasker what do you mean under the disguise on offer ??

bakedalasker what do you mean under the disguise on offer ??

I don't think the present setup of the Trust is up to it.

that's OK i think the same too

i only asked the question as i was intrigued what you meant .

the prem and championship sides are run by financial instituations these days so there's no real point for any trusts

i agree with trusts in the lower and non leagues like newport county for instance

The trust need some people with balls for a start

I agree but not under the disguise on offer.

I think at present there are simply not enough members to give the Trust any sort of voice at all. It costs as little as £12 to join and under 16s are free.

So the first thing we can all do to increase its power is to join the bloody thing

Ultimately, if we don't like the direction it takes on certain issues we are free to vote against proposals from the committee or even stand ourselves. It is a functioning democracy.

I think what we are seeing with the rebranding may very well be the thin end of the wedge,if we don't get ourselves properly organised there could be far bigger changes coming our way than a change of home kit.

I am not trying to scare monger but I think it's massively important that we present a united democratically elected fans front on all issues. We weren't united this summer and frankly we were utterly powerless.

I urge everyone to at least give it a go.

Thanks

bakedalasker what do you mean under the disguise on offer ??

I don't think the present setup of the Trust is up to it.

Have to agree with you, the whole idea of the trust is fantastic, but lets be honest, ours has no real leaders, it takes so long to debate and come to any decision that by the time they have it's out dated, as for this being the thin end of the wedge, if you are wanting a trust to run VT out of town i hope they have enough funds to cover the shortfall if they succeed.

bakedalasker what do you mean under the disguise on offer ??

I don't think the present setup of the Trust is up to it.

Have to agree with you, the whole idea of the trust is fantastic, but lets be honest, ours has no real leaders, it takes so long to debate and come to any decision that by the time they have it's out dated, as for this being the thin end of the wedge, if you are wanting a trust to run VT out of town i hope they have enough funds to cover the shortfall if they succeed.

I have to agree with this, the Trust needs a total clean sweep and a fresh start.
Newport County's works well and even the Jacks, so it shows it can work.

bakedalasker what do you mean under the disguise on offer ??

I don't think the present setup of the Trust is up to it.

Have to agree with you, the whole idea of the trust is fantastic, but lets be honest, ours has no real leaders, it takes so long to debate and come to any decision that by the time they have it's out dated, as for this being the thin end of the wedge, if you are wanting a trust to run VT out of town i hope they have enough funds to cover the shortfall if they succeed.

I certainly don't want to see Tan run out of town.

As much as I loathe what he has some to the football club with the rebranding ,at present he is the only show in town.

I think the most realistic thing that a CCST can do,providing its membership is greatly increased, is to push for a decent compromise kit and badge next season and importantly lobby to be involved in any future significant changes that VT has in the pipeline.

The City supporters are split into so many factions at present that we simply end up having no voice. An elected trust with a decent membership gives us a voice. At the moment it's easy for the club to brush aside the trust because it has less than a thousand members. If it had several times that number then the club would have to at least engage in meaningful dialogue.

bakedalasker what do you mean under the disguise on offer ??

I don't think the present setup of the Trust is up to it.

Have to agree with you, the whole idea of the trust is fantastic, but lets be honest, ours has no real leaders, it takes so long to debate and come to any decision that by the time they have it's out dated, as for this being the thin end of the wedge, if you are wanting a trust to run VT out of town i hope they have enough funds to cover the shortfall if they succeed.

I have to agree with this, the Trust needs a total clean sweep and a fresh start.
Newport County's works well and even the Jacks, so it shows it can work.

I think it can work but first off we need a lot more members.

I'll be the first to admit that I've only just joined. I've joined up because it looks like the best option for giving the fans a united mouthpiece.

It's definitely worth a try

bakedalasker what do you mean under the disguise on offer ??

I don't think the present setup of the Trust is up to it.

Have to agree with you, the whole idea of the trust is fantastic, but lets be honest, ours has no real leaders, it takes so long to debate and come to any decision that by the time they have it's out dated, as for this being the thin end of the wedge, if you are wanting a trust to run VT out of town i hope they have enough funds to cover the shortfall if they succeed.

I certainly don't want to see Tan run out of town.

As much as I loathe what he has some to the football club with the rebranding ,at present he is the only show in town.

I think the most realistic thing that a CCST can do,providing its membership is greatly increased, is to push for a decent compromise kit and badge next season and importantly lobby to be involved in any future significant changes that VT has in the pipeline.

The City supporters are split into so many factions at present that we simply end up having no voice. An elected trust with a decent membership gives us a voice. At the moment it's easy for the club to brush aside the trust because it has less than a thousand members. If it had several times that number then the club would have to at least engage in meaningful dialogue.

Have to agree with everything you have written here, membership would be a lot higher if people could see that we have leadership from the committee, in my opinion, it needs a complete overhaul.

I think the supporters club with close on 3,000 members would fulfill these needs, they cover the broad spectrum of the fan base, run away travel and many events such as Xmas party and end of season presentation.

They have stood the test of time and are actively and fully involved with the FSF, in fact in Vince Alm they are fortunate to have a man who spends more time and effort for our club and football fans in general than any other four people combined that I can think of.

They are reactive and actually respond quickly to situations as they arise and are well respected not just at our club, but as one of the best run supporters clubs in the country, and if anyone thinks they agree and go along with anything the club asks for, then you couldn't be more wrong, anyone who has been in a meeting can support this.

At smaller clubs Trusts can play a much fuller part and in some cases even run the club, as with Wycombe Wanderers among others, but as with all organisations that doesn't even get the full support of all the fans and there is as much as if not more infighting, perhaps it's the nature of the beast at football, so many opinions, so many arm chair chairmen and managers, don't think we are much different to fans at other clubs, we may think we are more passionate, but not many other fans at clubs would describe themselves as less passionate, and possibly it's these passions that lead to so many problems.

Personally, with football on and off the pitch, I don't think there's one solution to every problem and what ever decisions that are made they will always attract some dissenters.

I think the supporters club with close on 3,000 members would fulfill these needs, they cover the broad spectrum of the fan base, run away travel and many events such as Xmas party and end of season presentation.

They have stood the test of time and are actively and fully involved with the FSF, in fact in Vince Alm they are fortunate to have a man who spends more time and effort for our club and football fans in general than any other four people combined that I can think of.

They are reactive and actually respond quickly to situations as they arise and are well respected not just at our club, but as one of the best run supporters clubs in the country, and if anyone thinks they agree and go along with anything the club asks for, then you couldn't be more wrong, anyone who has been in a meeting can support this.

At smaller clubs Trusts can play a much fuller part and in some cases even run the club, as with Wycombe Wanderers among others, but as with all organisations that doesn't even get the full support of all the fans and there is as much as if not more infighting, perhaps it's the nature of the beast at football, so many opinions, so many arm chair chairmen and managers, don't think we are much different to fans at other clubs, we may think we are more passionate, but not many other fans at clubs would describe themselves as less passionate, and possibly it's these passions that lead to so many problems.

Personally, with football on and off the pitch, I don't think there's one solution to every problem and what ever decisions that are made they will always attract some dissenters.

I think CCSC do a great job and the commitment from people behind the scenes at the supporters club is hugely impressive.

As you say they do a terrific job  organising transport to away games,organising the Children's Christmas Party and the Player of the Year awards.Plus of course the donations they make to the club every year.

The idea of the trust however, is to give City fans a voice in the decision-making process of the Club - one of the reasons City fans are split into factions at the moment is because there are so many fans leaders.There is no unity. Better to have one democratically elected body. One fans mouth piece rather than many. If you disagree with something proposed by the trust vote against it or if you feel particularly strongly stand for the committee yourself. It's democracy. As simple as that.

Other aims of the trust are to strengthen the links between Cardiff City and the community it serves.

The Trust, as a legally constituted Society governed by law, is more than a “supporters club.”  It’s a campaigning organisation which seeks to represent the views of Cardiff City fans to the owners and executives at the Club. I think that this is the principle difference between CCST and CCSC.

I have taken the below from the trust's website just to highlight some of the other things the trust do:


What Does the Trust Do?

* Maintains a regular dialogue with the Club on behalf of supporters

* Encourages the Club to take account of its supporters and the community it serves, in its decision-making

* Strengthens the bond between Cardiff City, its supporters and the local community

* Maintains a significant shareholding in Cardiff City on behalf of our members

* Presents a positive image for Cardiff City, helping to overturn negative attitudes and prejudice towards the Club.

* Maintains a contingency fund for further CCFC share purchases or to help the Club in troubled times

* Uses members’ money to benefit members, the community and other appropriate good causes.

* Ultimately, our aim is to achieve supporter representation on the board of Cardiff City


I'll be the first to admit that I am a newcomer to the trust but all of the above sound like laudable aims to me.

The key thing is to grow the membership to give the trust some real impetus.

I think the supporters club with close on 3,000 members would fulfill these needs, they cover the broad spectrum of the fan base, run away travel and many events such as Xmas party and end of season presentation.

They have stood the test of time and are actively and fully involved with the FSF, in fact in Vince Alm they are fortunate to have a man who spends more time and effort for our club and football fans in general than any other four people combined that I can think of.

They are reactive and actually respond quickly to situations as they arise and are well respected not just at our club, but as one of the best run supporters clubs in the country, and if anyone thinks they agree and go along with anything the club asks for, then you couldn't be more wrong, anyone who has been in a meeting can support this.

At smaller clubs Trusts can play a much fuller part and in some cases even run the club, as with Wycombe Wanderers among others, but as with all organisations that doesn't even get the full support of all the fans and there is as much as if not more infighting, perhaps it's the nature of the beast at football, so many opinions, so many arm chair chairmen and managers, don't think we are much different to fans at other clubs, we may think we are more passionate, but not many other fans at clubs would describe themselves as less passionate, and possibly it's these passions that lead to so many problems.

Personally, with football on and off the pitch, I don't think there's one solution to every problem and what ever decisions that are made they will always attract some dissenters.

I think CCSC do a great job and the commitment from people behind the scenes at the supporters club is hugely impressive.

As you say they do a terrific job  organising transport to away games,organising the Children's Christmas Party and the Player of the Year awards.Plus of course the donations they make to the club every year.

The idea of the trust however, is to give City fans a voice in the decision-making process of the Club - one of the reasons City fans are split into factions at the moment is because there are so many fans leaders.There is no unity. Better to have one democratically elected body. One fans mouth piece rather than many. If you disagree with something proposed by the trust vote against it or if you feel particularly strongly stand for the committee yourself. It's democracy. As simple as that.

Other aims of the trust are to strengthen the links between Cardiff City and the community it serves.

The Trust, as a legally constituted Society governed by law, is more than a “supporters club.”  It’s a campaigning organisation which seeks to represent the views of Cardiff City fans to the owners and executives at the Club. I think that this is the principle difference between CCST and CCSC.

I have taken the below from the trust's website just to highlight some of the other things the trust do:


What Does the Trust Do?

* Maintains a regular dialogue with the Club on behalf of supporters

* Encourages the Club to take account of its supporters and the community it serves, in its decision-making

* Strengthens the bond between Cardiff City, its supporters and the local community

* Maintains a significant shareholding in Cardiff City on behalf of our members

* Presents a positive image for Cardiff City, helping to overturn negative attitudes and prejudice towards the Club.

* Maintains a contingency fund for further CCFC share purchases or to help the Club in troubled times

* Uses members’ money to benefit members, the community and other appropriate good causes.

* Ultimately, our aim is to achieve supporter representation on the board of Cardiff City


I'll be the first to admit that I am a newcomer to the trust but all of the above sound like laudable aims to me.

The key thing is to grow the membership to give the trust some real impetus.

And how many of the Trust members were opposed enough against the change to red to vote against it, wasn't it around 150 and that in reality would represent around fifty household when you consider most have a family membership.
The majority of the membership by a a vast amount didn't feel that strongly enough about it to even return the stamped addressed envelope,

You could say that even at a time of such a massive change,whatever voice the Trust had came across more as an almost silent whisper, and incidentally it took close on a month after the event to come up with that so hardly reactive with fingers on the pulse.

The supporters club with a much bigger membership came back with answers in a week.

bakedalasker what do you mean under the disguise on offer ??

I don't think the present setup of the Trust is up to it.

Have to agree with you, the whole idea of the trust is fantastic, but lets be honest, ours has no real leaders, it takes so long to debate and come to any decision that by the time they have it's out dated, as for this being the thin end of the wedge, if you are wanting a trust to run VT out of town i hope they have enough funds to cover the shortfall if they succeed.

I have to agree with this, the Trust needs a total clean sweep and a fresh start.
Newport County's works well and even the Jacks, so it shows it can work.

The reason the trust runs well with the Jacks is because they actually have a say in how the club is run and this is because the trust hold shares in the club.We are not in that position and having a dictator as our owner does not help our position.

bakedalasker what do you mean under the disguise on offer ??

I don't think the present setup of the Trust is up to it.

Have to agree with you, the whole idea of the trust is fantastic, but lets be honest, ours has no real leaders, it takes so long to debate and come to any decision that by the time they have it's out dated, as for this being the thin end of the wedge, if you are wanting a trust to run VT out of town i hope they have enough funds to cover the shortfall if they succeed.

I have to agree with this, the Trust needs a total clean sweep and a fresh start.
Newport County's works well and even the Jacks, so it shows it can work.

The reason the trust runs well with the Jacks is because they actually have a say in how the club is run and this is because the trust hold shares in the club.We are not in that position and having a dictator as our owner does not help our position.

Having shares does not give you that much of a say as you might think.

Those with the dough pull the strings.

We need a Trust similar to Portsmouth.

One that can save the club when it goes tits up, but I can't see it being strong enough right now.

bakedalasker what do you mean under the disguise on offer ??

I don't think the present setup of the Trust is up to it.

Have to agree with you, the whole idea of the trust is fantastic, but lets be honest, ours has no real leaders, it takes so long to debate and come to any decision that by the time they have it's out dated, as for this being the thin end of the wedge, if you are wanting a trust to run VT out of town i hope they have enough funds to cover the shortfall if they succeed.

I have to agree with this, the Trust needs a total clean sweep and a fresh start.
Newport County's works well and even the Jacks, so it shows it can work.

Yes but he's got the wrong idea. Its not about running VT out of town, its about having an elected democratic organisation with a voice to put our gripes to the club.

The Trust has been put down on here a lot in recent years and thats a real shame, as the more support it has the stronger it will be.

Its also not about taking immediate action on things -in most cases that's not the best way to do things anyway. To discuss and vote on issues is surely a better way to go about things.

The kit issue is something which a strong Trust could work with the club to sort - better for them to approach them and suggest compromises over the next 6 months to get some changes for next year, rather than KCB have demos and encourage people to boycott the club and its shop.
I know which one is more likely to work with Tan.

No good comparing us with Newport or the Jacks, they both got loads of members through a crisis, when fans joined the Trust to save their club, luckily we've never been quite that bad.

The more that join the Trust the more chance the club will listen.

I did a longer post earlier, but my internet crashed and I lost it.

I think the supporters club with close on 3,000 members would fulfill these needs, they cover the broad spectrum of the fan base, run away travel and many events such as Xmas party and end of season presentation.

They have stood the test of time and are actively and fully involved with the FSF, in fact in Vince Alm they are fortunate to have a man who spends more time and effort for our club and football fans in general than any other four people combined that I can think of.

They are reactive and actually respond quickly to situations as they arise and are well respected not just at our club, but as one of the best run supporters clubs in the country, and if anyone thinks they agree and go along with anything the club asks for, then you couldn't be more wrong, anyone who has been in a meeting can support this.

At smaller clubs Trusts can play a much fuller part and in some cases even run the club, as with Wycombe Wanderers among others, but as with all organisations that doesn't even get the full support of all the fans and there is as much as if not more infighting, perhaps it's the nature of the beast at football, so many opinions, so many arm chair chairmen and managers, don't think we are much different to fans at other clubs, we may think we are more passionate, but not many other fans at clubs would describe themselves as less passionate, and possibly it's these passions that lead to so many problems.

Personally, with football on and off the pitch, I don't think there's one solution to every problem and what ever decisions that are made they will always attract some dissenters.

I think CCSC do a great job and the commitment from people behind the scenes at the supporters club is hugely impressive.

As you say they do a terrific job  organising transport to away games,organising the Children's Christmas Party and the Player of the Year awards.Plus of course the donations they make to the club every year.

The idea of the trust however, is to give City fans a voice in the decision-making process of the Club - one of the reasons City fans are split into factions at the moment is because there are so many fans leaders.There is no unity. Better to have one democratically elected body. One fans mouth piece rather than many. If you disagree with something proposed by the trust vote against it or if you feel particularly strongly stand for the committee yourself. It's democracy. As simple as that.

Other aims of the trust are to strengthen the links between Cardiff City and the community it serves.

The Trust, as a legally constituted Society governed by law, is more than a “supporters club.”  It’s a campaigning organisation which seeks to represent the views of Cardiff City fans to the owners and executives at the Club. I think that this is the principle difference between CCST and CCSC.

I have taken the below from the trust's website just to highlight some of the other things the trust do:


What Does the Trust Do?

* Maintains a regular dialogue with the Club on behalf of supporters

* Encourages the Club to take account of its supporters and the community it serves, in its decision-making

* Strengthens the bond between Cardiff City, its supporters and the local community

* Maintains a significant shareholding in Cardiff City on behalf of our members

* Presents a positive image for Cardiff City, helping to overturn negative attitudes and prejudice towards the Club.

* Maintains a contingency fund for further CCFC share purchases or to help the Club in troubled times

* Uses members’ money to benefit members, the community and other appropriate good causes.

* Ultimately, our aim is to achieve supporter representation on the board of Cardiff City


I'll be the first to admit that I am a newcomer to the trust but all of the above sound like laudable aims to me.

The key thing is to grow the membership to give the trust some real impetus.

And how many of the Trust members were opposed enough against the change to red to vote against it, wasn't it around 150 and that in reality would represent around fifty household when you consider most have a family membership.
The majority of the membership by a a vast amount didn't feel that strongly enough about it to even return the stamped addressed envelope,

You could say that even at a time of such a massive change,whatever voice the Trust had came across more as an almost silent whisper, and incidentally it took close on a month after the event to come up with that so hardly reactive with fingers on the pulse.

The supporters club with a much bigger membership came back with answers in a week.

What was the response of the Supporters club Gwyn.

One leader backed it and the other set up KCB !

I'm really surprised and disappointed you are so negative toward the Trust, especially after all the work Corky did setting it up. Its democratic and there to represent fans interests.

I think the supporters club with close on 3,000 members would fulfill these needs, they cover the broad spectrum of the fan base, run away travel and many events such as Xmas party and end of season presentation.

They have stood the test of time and are actively and fully involved with the FSF, in fact in Vince Alm they are fortunate to have a man who spends more time and effort for our club and football fans in general than any other four people combined that I can think of.

They are reactive and actually respond quickly to situations as they arise and are well respected not just at our club, but as one of the best run supporters clubs in the country, and if anyone thinks they agree and go along with anything the club asks for, then you couldn't be more wrong, anyone who has been in a meeting can support this.

At smaller clubs Trusts can play a much fuller part and in some cases even run the club, as with Wycombe Wanderers among others, but as with all organisations that doesn't even get the full support of all the fans and there is as much as if not more infighting, perhaps it's the nature of the beast at football, so many opinions, so many arm chair chairmen and managers, don't think we are much different to fans at other clubs, we may think we are more passionate, but not many other fans at clubs would describe themselves as less passionate, and possibly it's these passions that lead to so many problems.

Personally, with football on and off the pitch, I don't think there's one solution to every problem and what ever decisions that are made they will always attract some dissenters.

I think CCSC do a great job and the commitment from people behind the scenes at the supporters club is hugely impressive.

As you say they do a terrific job  organising transport to away games,organising the Children's Christmas Party and the Player of the Year awards.Plus of course the donations they make to the club every year.

The idea of the trust however, is to give City fans a voice in the decision-making process of the Club - one of the reasons City fans are split into factions at the moment is because there are so many fans leaders.There is no unity. Better to have one democratically elected body. One fans mouth piece rather than many. If you disagree with something proposed by the trust vote against it or if you feel particularly strongly stand for the committee yourself. It's democracy. As simple as that.

Other aims of the trust are to strengthen the links between Cardiff City and the community it serves.

The Trust, as a legally constituted Society governed by law, is more than a “supporters club.”  It’s a campaigning organisation which seeks to represent the views of Cardiff City fans to the owners and executives at the Club. I think that this is the principle difference between CCST and CCSC.

I have taken the below from the trust's website just to highlight some of the other things the trust do:


What Does the Trust Do?

* Maintains a regular dialogue with the Club on behalf of supporters

* Encourages the Club to take account of its supporters and the community it serves, in its decision-making

* Strengthens the bond between Cardiff City, its supporters and the local community

* Maintains a significant shareholding in Cardiff City on behalf of our members

* Presents a positive image for Cardiff City, helping to overturn negative attitudes and prejudice towards the Club.

* Maintains a contingency fund for further CCFC share purchases or to help the Club in troubled times

* Uses members’ money to benefit members, the community and other appropriate good causes.

* Ultimately, our aim is to achieve supporter representation on the board of Cardiff City


I'll be the first to admit that I am a newcomer to the trust but all of the above sound like laudable aims to me.

The key thing is to grow the membership to give the trust some real impetus.

And how many of the Trust members were opposed enough against the change to red to vote against it, wasn't it around 150 and that in reality would represent around fifty household when you consider most have a family membership.
The majority of the membership by a a vast amount didn't feel that strongly enough about it to even return the stamped addressed envelope,

You could say that even at a time of such a massive change,whatever voice the Trust had came across more as an almost silent whisper, and incidentally it took close on a month after the event to come up with that so hardly reactive with fingers on the pulse.

The supporters club with a much bigger membership came back with answers in a week.

What was the response of the Supporters club Gwyn.

They had a meeting and balloted their membership and came up with results in a week, if individuals in the organsisation disagreed with the results, then they either had to abide by the majority decision, or stand down or in some case even stop watching the games.Sad, but democracy and personal choice.


One leader backed it and the other set up KCB !

I don't think the supporters club was run or organised by two leaders, think they have quite an active and large committee.

I'm really surprised and disappointed you are so negative toward the Trust, especially after all the work Corky did setting it up. Its democratic and there to represent fans interests.

And why do you think Corky stood down, possibly the direction it was taking, or the structure and rules it had set up were making it ineffectual? Corky too much of a gent to criticise things publicly, but I feel he had different ideas for making it more fan friendly and covering a broader church of our fan base and all it's idiosyncratic warts and all nature.

I genuinely hoped it would succeed and help represent the fans and get them a fair deal in many areas, but it appeared to want to wash it's hands of any possible scandal or mud in the water and distance itself from any wrong doings that happened with our fans, and in my opinion we are all part of the club and we can't have a selection policy of what sort of fans are deserving of our backing, as fans we should stick together and try and help change things rather than just knee jerk beat them with the big stick approach.

It became obvious to me that as an organisation it had tied itself up in its own rules, just joining up need a lawyers help to understand the choices, also the Trust say they want more involvement and say in the running of the club, but they have also said that anything that is discussed with them whether it of a private or confidential nature, as to be then shared immediately with it's full membership, now tome that alone would cause major conflict of interest.

And as for making decisions, well the officers in my opinion should have a mandate to represent, and stand and fall by the outcome, but no, for the slightest decision it takes a full ballot, a count up a meeting to decide the options and then to contact the members to inform them and then to set the plans in action, which is usually three months after it was needed.

I think it was Tony Jeffries that said something along the lines of, it wasn't for him and he was frustrated because he was a doer rather than a planner or talker. Just about sums it up for me.

gwyn you run down the trust time and time again , get pulled up for putting up untrue stats about its membership numbers

its time to give it a rest , you are making yourself look daft

loads to be done to improve the trust but having you diss it all the time does you no favours at all

I think the supporters club with close on 3,000 members would fulfill these needs, they cover the broad spectrum of the fan base, run away travel and many events such as Xmas party and end of season presentation.

They have stood the test of time and are actively and fully involved with the FSF, in fact in Vince Alm they are fortunate to have a man who spends more time and effort for our club and football fans in general than any other four people combined that I can think of.

They are reactive and actually respond quickly to situations as they arise and are well respected not just at our club, but as one of the best run supporters clubs in the country, and if anyone thinks they agree and go along with anything the club asks for, then you couldn't be more wrong, anyone who has been in a meeting can support this.

At smaller clubs Trusts can play a much fuller part and in some cases even run the club, as with Wycombe Wanderers among others, but as with all organisations that doesn't even get the full support of all the fans and there is as much as if not more infighting, perhaps it's the nature of the beast at football, so many opinions, so many arm chair chairmen and managers, don't think we are much different to fans at other clubs, we may think we are more passionate, but not many other fans at clubs would describe themselves as less passionate, and possibly it's these passions that lead to so many problems.

Personally, with football on and off the pitch, I don't think there's one solution to every problem and what ever decisions that are made they will always attract some dissenters.

I think CCSC do a great job and the commitment from people behind the scenes at the supporters club is hugely impressive.

As you say they do a terrific job  organising transport to away games,organising the Children's Christmas Party and the Player of the Year awards.Plus of course the donations they make to the club every year.

The idea of the trust however, is to give City fans a voice in the decision-making process of the Club - one of the reasons City fans are split into factions at the moment is because there are so many fans leaders.There is no unity. Better to have one democratically elected body. One fans mouth piece rather than many. If you disagree with something proposed by the trust vote against it or if you feel particularly strongly stand for the committee yourself. It's democracy. As simple as that.

Other aims of the trust are to strengthen the links between Cardiff City and the community it serves.

The Trust, as a legally constituted Society governed by law, is more than a “supporters club.”  It’s a campaigning organisation which seeks to represent the views of Cardiff City fans to the owners and executives at the Club. I think that this is the principle difference between CCST and CCSC.

I have taken the below from the trust's website just to highlight some of the other things the trust do:


What Does the Trust Do?

* Maintains a regular dialogue with the Club on behalf of supporters

* Encourages the Club to take account of its supporters and the community it serves, in its decision-making

* Strengthens the bond between Cardiff City, its supporters and the local community

* Maintains a significant shareholding in Cardiff City on behalf of our members

* Presents a positive image for Cardiff City, helping to overturn negative attitudes and prejudice towards the Club.

* Maintains a contingency fund for further CCFC share purchases or to help the Club in troubled times

* Uses members’ money to benefit members, the community and other appropriate good causes.

* Ultimately, our aim is to achieve supporter representation on the board of Cardiff City


I'll be the first to admit that I am a newcomer to the trust but all of the above sound like laudable aims to me.

The key thing is to grow the membership to give the trust some real impetus.

And how many of the Trust members were opposed enough against the change to red to vote against it, wasn't it around 150 and that in reality would represent around fifty household when you consider most have a family membership.
The majority of the membership by a a vast amount didn't feel that strongly enough about it to even return the stamped addressed envelope,

You could say that even at a time of such a massive change,whatever voice the Trust had came across more as an almost silent whisper, and incidentally it took close on a month after the event to come up with that so hardly reactive with fingers on the pulse.

The supporters club with a much bigger membership came back with answers in a week.

What was the response of the Supporters club Gwyn.

One leader backed it and the other set up KCB !

I'm really surprised and disappointed you are so negative toward the Trust, especially after all the work Corky did setting it up. Its democratic and there to represent fans interests.

well said

I think the supporters club with close on 3,000 members would fulfill these needs, they cover the broad spectrum of the fan base, run away travel and many events such as Xmas party and end of season presentation.

They have stood the test of time and are actively and fully involved with the FSF, in fact in Vince Alm they are fortunate to have a man who spends more time and effort for our club and football fans in general than any other four people combined that I can think of.

They are reactive and actually respond quickly to situations as they arise and are well respected not just at our club, but as one of the best run supporters clubs in the country, and if anyone thinks they agree and go along with anything the club asks for, then you couldn't be more wrong, anyone who has been in a meeting can support this.

At smaller clubs Trusts can play a much fuller part and in some cases even run the club, as with Wycombe Wanderers among others, but as with all organisations that doesn't even get the full support of all the fans and there is as much as if not more infighting, perhaps it's the nature of the beast at football, so many opinions, so many arm chair chairmen and managers, don't think we are much different to fans at other clubs, we may think we are more passionate, but not many other fans at clubs would describe themselves as less passionate, and possibly it's these passions that lead to so many problems.

Personally, with football on and off the pitch, I don't think there's one solution to every problem and what ever decisions that are made they will always attract some dissenters.

I think CCSC do a great job and the commitment from people behind the scenes at the supporters club is hugely impressive.

As you say they do a terrific job  organising transport to away games,organising the Children's Christmas Party and the Player of the Year awards.Plus of course the donations they make to the club every year.

The idea of the trust however, is to give City fans a voice in the decision-making process of the Club - one of the reasons City fans are split into factions at the moment is because there are so many fans leaders.There is no unity. Better to have one democratically elected body. One fans mouth piece rather than many. If you disagree with something proposed by the trust vote against it or if you feel particularly strongly stand for the committee yourself. It's democracy. As simple as that.

Other aims of the trust are to strengthen the links between Cardiff City and the community it serves.

The Trust, as a legally constituted Society governed by law, is more than a “supporters club.”  It’s a campaigning organisation which seeks to represent the views of Cardiff City fans to the owners and executives at the Club. I think that this is the principle difference between CCST and CCSC.

I have taken the below from the trust's website just to highlight some of the other things the trust do:


What Does the Trust Do?

* Maintains a regular dialogue with the Club on behalf of supporters

* Encourages the Club to take account of its supporters and the community it serves, in its decision-making

* Strengthens the bond between Cardiff City, its supporters and the local community

* Maintains a significant shareholding in Cardiff City on behalf of our members

* Presents a positive image for Cardiff City, helping to overturn negative attitudes and prejudice towards the Club.

* Maintains a contingency fund for further CCFC share purchases or to help the Club in troubled times

* Uses members’ money to benefit members, the community and other appropriate good causes.

* Ultimately, our aim is to achieve supporter representation on the board of Cardiff City


I'll be the first to admit that I am a newcomer to the trust but all of the above sound like laudable aims to me.

The key thing is to grow the membership to give the trust some real impetus.

And how many of the Trust members were opposed enough against the change to red to vote against it, wasn't it around 150 and that in reality would represent around fifty household when you consider most have a family membership.
The majority of the membership by a a vast amount didn't feel that strongly enough about it to even return the stamped addressed envelope,

You could say that even at a time of such a massive change,whatever voice the Trust had came across more as an almost silent whisper, and incidentally it took close on a month after the event to come up with that so hardly reactive with fingers on the pulse.

The supporters club with a much bigger membership came back with answers in a week.

What was the response of the Supporters club Gwyn.

They had a meeting and balloted their membership and came up with results in a week, if individuals in the organsisation disagreed with the results, then they either had to abide by the majority decision, or stand down or in some case even stop watching the games.Sad, but democracy and personal choice.


One leader backed it and the other set up KCB !

I don't think the supporters club was run or organised by two leaders, think they have quite an active and large committee.

I'm really surprised and disappointed you are so negative toward the Trust, especially after all the work Corky did setting it up. Its democratic and there to represent fans interests.

And why do you think Corky stood down, possibly the direction it was taking, or the structure and rules it had set up were making it ineffectual? Corky too much of a gent to criticise things publicly, but I feel he had different ideas for making it more fan friendly and covering a broader church of our fan base and all it's idiosyncratic warts and all nature.

I genuinely hoped it would succeed and help represent the fans and get them a fair deal in many areas, but it appeared to want to wash it's hands of any possible scandal or mud in the water and distance itself from any wrong doings that happened with our fans, and in my opinion we are all part of the club and we can't have a selection policy of what sort of fans are deserving of our backing, as fans we should stick together and try and help change things rather than just knee jerk beat them with the big stick approach.

It became obvious to me that as an organisation it had tied itself up in its own rules, just joining up need a lawyers help to understand the choices, also the Trust say they want more involvement and say in the running of the club, but they have also said that anything that is discussed with them whether it of a private or confidential nature, as to be then shared immediately with it's full membership, now tome that alone would cause major conflict of interest.

And as for making decisions, well the officers in my opinion should have a mandate to represent, and stand and fall by the outcome, but no, for the slightest decision it takes a full ballot, a count up a meeting to decide the options and then to contact the members to inform them and then to set the plans in action, which is usually three months after it was needed.

I think it was Tony Jeffries that said something along the lines of, it wasn't for him and he was frustrated because he was a doer rather than a planner or talker. Just about sums it up for me.

get corky to tell us why he stood down , hes got a keyboard....thOSE ARE YOUR OPINIONS AND WITHIN THEM CONTAIN THE USUAL DISSING OF THE TRUST

I think the supporters club with close on 3,000 members would fulfill these needs, they cover the broad spectrum of the fan base, run away travel and many events such as Xmas party and end of season presentation.

They have stood the test of time and are actively and fully involved with the FSF, in fact in Vince Alm they are fortunate to have a man who spends more time and effort for our club and football fans in general than any other four people combined that I can think of.

They are reactive and actually respond quickly to situations as they arise and are well respected not just at our club, but as one of the best run supporters clubs in the country, and if anyone thinks they agree and go along with anything the club asks for, then you couldn't be more wrong, anyone who has been in a meeting can support this.

At smaller clubs Trusts can play a much fuller part and in some cases even run the club, as with Wycombe Wanderers among others, but as with all organisations that doesn't even get the full support of all the fans and there is as much as if not more infighting, perhaps it's the nature of the beast at football, so many opinions, so many arm chair chairmen and managers, don't think we are much different to fans at other clubs, we may think we are more passionate, but not many other fans at clubs would describe themselves as less passionate, and possibly it's these passions that lead to so many problems.

Personally, with football on and off the pitch, I don't think there's one solution to every problem and what ever decisions that are made they will always attract some dissenters.

I think CCSC do a great job and the commitment from people behind the scenes at the supporters club is hugely impressive.

As you say they do a terrific job  organising transport to away games,organising the Children's Christmas Party and the Player of the Year awards.Plus of course the donations they make to the club every year.

The idea of the trust however, is to give City fans a voice in the decision-making process of the Club - one of the reasons City fans are split into factions at the moment is because there are so many fans leaders.There is no unity. Better to have one democratically elected body. One fans mouth piece rather than many. If you disagree with something proposed by the trust vote against it or if you feel particularly strongly stand for the committee yourself. It's democracy. As simple as that.

Other aims of the trust are to strengthen the links between Cardiff City and the community it serves.

The Trust, as a legally constituted Society governed by law, is more than a “supporters club.”  It’s a campaigning organisation which seeks to represent the views of Cardiff City fans to the owners and executives at the Club. I think that this is the principle difference between CCST and CCSC.

I have taken the below from the trust's website just to highlight some of the other things the trust do:


What Does the Trust Do?

* Maintains a regular dialogue with the Club on behalf of supporters

* Encourages the Club to take account of its supporters and the community it serves, in its decision-making

* Strengthens the bond between Cardiff City, its supporters and the local community

* Maintains a significant shareholding in Cardiff City on behalf of our members

* Presents a positive image for Cardiff City, helping to overturn negative attitudes and prejudice towards the Club.

* Maintains a contingency fund for further CCFC share purchases or to help the Club in troubled times

* Uses members’ money to benefit members, the community and other appropriate good causes.

* Ultimately, our aim is to achieve supporter representation on the board of Cardiff City


I'll be the first to admit that I am a newcomer to the trust but all of the above sound like laudable aims to me.

The key thing is to grow the membership to give the trust some real impetus.

And how many of the Trust members were opposed enough against the change to red to vote against it, wasn't it around 150 and that in reality would represent around fifty household when you consider most have a family membership.
The majority of the membership by a a vast amount didn't feel that strongly enough about it to even return the stamped addressed envelope,

You could say that even at a time of such a massive change,whatever voice the Trust had came across more as an almost silent whisper, and incidentally it took close on a month after the event to come up with that so hardly reactive with fingers on the pulse.

The supporters club with a much bigger membership came back with answers in a week.

What was the response of the Supporters club Gwyn.

They had a meeting and balloted their membership and came up with results in a week, if individuals in the organsisation disagreed with the results, then they either had to abide by the majority decision, or stand down or in some case even stop watching the games.Sad, but democracy and personal choice.


One leader backed it and the other set up KCB !

I don't think the supporters club was run or organised by two leaders, think they have quite an active and large committee.

I'm really surprised and disappointed you are so negative toward the Trust, especially after all the work Corky did setting it up. Its democratic and there to represent fans interests.

And why do you think Corky stood down, possibly the direction it was taking, or the structure and rules it had set up were making it ineffectual? Corky too much of a gent to criticise things publicly, but I feel he had different ideas for making it more fan friendly and covering a broader church of our fan base and all it's idiosyncratic warts and all nature.

I genuinely hoped it would succeed and help represent the fans and get them a fair deal in many areas, but it appeared to want to wash it's hands of any possible scandal or mud in the water and distance itself from any wrong doings that happened with our fans, and in my opinion we are all part of the club and we can't have a selection policy of what sort of fans are deserving of our backing, as fans we should stick together and try and help change things rather than just knee jerk beat them with the big stick approach.

It became obvious to me that as an organisation it had tied itself up in its own rules, just joining up need a lawyers help to understand the choices, also the Trust say they want more involvement and say in the running of the club, but they have also said that anything that is discussed with them whether it of a private or confidential nature, as to be then shared immediately with it's full membership, now tome that alone would cause major conflict of interest.

And as for making decisions, well the officers in my opinion should have a mandate to represent, and stand and fall by the outcome, but no, for the slightest decision it takes a full ballot, a count up a meeting to decide the options and then to contact the members to inform them and then to set the plans in action, which is usually three months after it was needed.

I think it was Tony Jeffries that said something along the lines of, it wasn't for him and he was frustrated because he was a doer rather than a planner or talker. Just about sums it up for me.

You didn't actually tell me what the answer was from CCSC. In terms of timings it has been posted elsewhere that the Trust acted quickly enough. To be fair though the damage was done anyway, due to the leak by a member of the original meeting, so what difference did it make ?

As for Corky, well I'm sure he can speak for himself. I worked closely with him setting the Trust up and it was an enormous amount of often boring work. I always thought he'd stepped down as he had enough on his plate with the FSF, which in turn is bound by similar rules to the trust (in fact the Trust's rules were base don a template from FSF.)
He never mentioned to me then or later when he drove us down to Bournemouth last year any criticsm.

Joining is simple Gwyn. There were choices on offer for people, like there are with lots of things, again a system which is successful for other Trusts.

In terms of informing members, then that is done on the basis of consulting the club first -or at least it was when I met with the club on the Trusts behalf, I cleared what I was going to write first. Pity not everyone has stuck to this - or we might not be where we are now ! For that then to be made available to members is IMHO the correct thing.

Correct me if this has changed as I last got involved in this way about 2-3 years ago.

In terms of the other thing 'the scandal' this was a fairly long time ago and well debated at the time.

Your comments on the ballot etc.. well I guess you realise they are exaggerated, and I think recent events have shown that its far better for major issues to be dealt with gradually and then ballotted on rather than knee-jerk reactions. if the rebrand had been dealt with by all involved in this manner we might not have the split down the middle of our fan-base that we have now. At least the club would have a mandate for the change or a realisation that the majority don't want it.

Sometimes maybe a decision has to be made quickly, but so many times this proves to be the wrong one.

One final thing as I'm off to bed. If anyone thinks they can do a better job its a democratic organisation, then the opportunity is always there to get voted in and change it.

One day, we might get dropped in very, very deep shit,just like Pompey. The stronger the Trust is if/when this happens the better, because something like this might be our only hope.

I am a member of the Trust but has i have said previously the trust needs to increase it's membership but to this end does not help itself. In my opinion it has to spread it's roots by holding meetings outside of Cardiff and using the meetings to explain it's aims and recruit new members.

I have previously contacted the Trust and offered my local Club in Aberdare has a venue for a trust meeting and have offered to promote such a meeting but to no avail. I agree with the aims of the Trust and believe a strong trust with a much larger membership could have a powerful voice.

However until the Trust reaches out to potential members in the valleys,Bridgend, Neath etc it will continue to remain weak and have very little power within the Club

the trust arranged a get together in merthyr

very few people turned up

they had one in maeteg which was a roaring success....thats easy access for port talbot and neath lads


same in pontypridd....had one there which was packed ....again easy accesss for our superb valleys support

fact is they cant go everywhere

I think the supporters club with close on 3,000 members would fulfill these needs, they cover the broad spectrum of the fan base, run away travel and many events such as Xmas party and end of season presentation.

They have stood the test of time and are actively and fully involved with the FSF, in fact in Vince Alm they are fortunate to have a man who spends more time and effort for our club and football fans in general than any other four people combined that I can think of.

They are reactive and actually respond quickly to situations as they arise and are well respected not just at our club, but as one of the best run supporters clubs in the country, and if anyone thinks they agree and go along with anything the club asks for, then you couldn't be more wrong, anyone who has been in a meeting can support this.

At smaller clubs Trusts can play a much fuller part and in some cases even run the club, as with Wycombe Wanderers among others, but as with all organisations that doesn't even get the full support of all the fans and there is as much as if not more infighting, perhaps it's the nature of the beast at football, so many opinions, so many arm chair chairmen and managers, don't think we are much different to fans at other clubs, we may think we are more passionate, but not many other fans at clubs would describe themselves as less passionate, and possibly it's these passions that lead to so many problems.

Personally, with football on and off the pitch, I don't think there's one solution to every problem and what ever decisions that are made they will always attract some dissenters.

I think CCSC do a great job and the commitment from people behind the scenes at the supporters club is hugely impressive.

As you say they do a terrific job  organising transport to away games,organising the Children's Christmas Party and the Player of the Year awards.Plus of course the donations they make to the club every year.

The idea of the trust however, is to give City fans a voice in the decision-making process of the Club - one of the reasons City fans are split into factions at the moment is because there are so many fans leaders.There is no unity. Better to have one democratically elected body. One fans mouth piece rather than many. If you disagree with something proposed by the trust vote against it or if you feel particularly strongly stand for the committee yourself. It's democracy. As simple as that.

Other aims of the trust are to strengthen the links between Cardiff City and the community it serves.

The Trust, as a legally constituted Society governed by law, is more than a “supporters club.”  It’s a campaigning organisation which seeks to represent the views of Cardiff City fans to the owners and executives at the Club. I think that this is the principle difference between CCST and CCSC.

I have taken the below from the trust's website just to highlight some of the other things the trust do:


What Does the Trust Do?

* Maintains a regular dialogue with the Club on behalf of supporters

* Encourages the Club to take account of its supporters and the community it serves, in its decision-making

* Strengthens the bond between Cardiff City, its supporters and the local community

* Maintains a significant shareholding in Cardiff City on behalf of our members

* Presents a positive image for Cardiff City, helping to overturn negative attitudes and prejudice towards the Club.

* Maintains a contingency fund for further CCFC share purchases or to help the Club in troubled times

* Uses members’ money to benefit members, the community and other appropriate good causes.

* Ultimately, our aim is to achieve supporter representation on the board of Cardiff City


I'll be the first to admit that I am a newcomer to the trust but all of the above sound like laudable aims to me.

The key thing is to grow the membership to give the trust some real impetus.

And how many of the Trust members were opposed enough against the change to red to vote against it, wasn't it around 150 and that in reality would represent around fifty household when you consider most have a family membership.
The majority of the membership by a a vast amount didn't feel that strongly enough about it to even return the stamped addressed envelope,

You could say that even at a time of such a massive change,whatever voice the Trust had came across more as an almost silent whisper, and incidentally it took close on a month after the event to come up with that so hardly reactive with fingers on the pulse.

The supporters club with a much bigger membership came back with answers in a week.

What was the response of the Supporters club Gwyn.

They had a meeting and balloted their membership and came up with results in a week, if individuals in the organsisation disagreed with the results, then they either had to abide by the majority decision, or stand down or in some case even stop watching the games.Sad, but democracy and personal choice.


One leader backed it and the other set up KCB !

I don't think the supporters club was run or organised by two leaders, think they have quite an active and large committee.

I'm really surprised and disappointed you are so negative toward the Trust, especially after all the work Corky did setting it up. Its democratic and there to represent fans interests.

And why do you think Corky stood down, possibly the direction it was taking, or the structure and rules it had set up were making it ineffectual? Corky too much of a gent to criticise things publicly, but I feel he had different ideas for making it more fan friendly and covering a broader church of our fan base and all it's idiosyncratic warts and all nature.

I genuinely hoped it would succeed and help represent the fans and get them a fair deal in many areas, but it appeared to want to wash it's hands of any possible scandal or mud in the water and distance itself from any wrong doings that happened with our fans, and in my opinion we are all part of the club and we can't have a selection policy of what sort of fans are deserving of our backing, as fans we should stick together and try and help change things rather than just knee jerk beat them with the big stick approach.

It became obvious to me that as an organisation it had tied itself up in its own rules, just joining up need a lawyers help to understand the choices, also the Trust say they want more involvement and say in the running of the club, but they have also said that anything that is discussed with them whether it of a private or confidential nature, as to be then shared immediately with it's full membership, now tome that alone would cause major conflict of interest.

And as for making decisions, well the officers in my opinion should have a mandate to represent, and stand and fall by the outcome, but no, for the slightest decision it takes a full ballot, a count up a meeting to decide the options and then to contact the members to inform them and then to set the plans in action, which is usually three months after it was needed.

I think it was Tony Jeffries that said something along the lines of, it wasn't for him and he was frustrated because he was a doer rather than a planner or talker. Just about sums it up for me.

You didn't actually tell me what the answer was from CCSC. In terms of timings it has been posted elsewhere that the Trust acted quickly enough. To be fair though the damage was done anyway, due to the leak by a member of the original meeting, so what difference did it make ?

As for Corky, well I'm sure he can speak for himself. I worked closely with him setting the Trust up and it was an enormous amount of often boring work. I always thought he'd stepped down as he had enough on his plate with the FSF, which in turn is bound by similar rules to the trust (in fact the Trust's rules were base don a template from FSF.)
He never mentioned to me then or later when he drove us down to Bournemouth last year any criticsm.

Joining is simple Gwyn. There were choices on offer for people, like there are with lots of things, again a system which is successful for other Trusts.

In terms of informing members, then that is done on the basis of consulting the club first -or at least it was when I met with the club on the Trusts behalf, I cleared what I was going to write first. Pity not everyone has stuck to this - or we might not be where we are now ! For that then to be made available to members is IMHO the correct thing.

Correct me if this has changed as I last got involved in this way about 2-3 years ago.

In terms of the other thing 'the scandal' this was a fairly long time ago and well debated at the time.

Your comments on the ballot etc.. well I guess you realise they are exaggerated, and I think recent events have shown that its far better for major issues to be dealt with gradually and then ballotted on rather than knee-jerk reactions. if the rebrand had been dealt with by all involved in this manner we might not have the split down the middle of our fan-base that we have now. At least the club would have a mandate for the change or a realisation that the majority don't want it.

Sometimes maybe a decision has to be made quickly, but so many times this proves to be the wrong one.

One final thing as I'm off to bed. If anyone thinks they can do a better job its a democratic organisation, then the opportunity is always there to get voted in and change it.

One day, we might get dropped in very, very deep shit,just like Pompey. The stronger the Trust is if/when this happens the better, because something like this might be our only hope.

joining is indeed very simple

having a go at it from the outside is even easier

I was asked my opinion of the shirt change within an hour via e mail gwyn

needless to say I didnt want it but I respect the opinions of those that did

the reason why many didnt respond is because .....many change their e mails from time to time !

I am a member of the Trust but has i have said previously the trust needs to increase it's membership but to this end does not help itself. In my opinion it has to spread it's roots by holding meetings outside of Cardiff and using the meetings to explain it's aims and recruit new members.

I have previously contacted the Trust and offered my local Club in Aberdare has a venue for a trust meeting and have offered to promote such a meeting but to no avail. I agree with the aims of the Trust and believe a strong trust with a much larger membership could have a powerful voice.

However until the Trust reaches out to potential members in the valleys,Bridgend, Neath etc it will continue to remain weak and have very little power within the Club

it was agreed that ponty would be a better base for valleys fans as its easy access from most of the valleys , being at the centre of the A470