Why do people want to undermime

No threats, just some friendly advice.

Funny enough polo i had the same advice If thats what its called these days. This was awhile ago after sitting back and thinking no matter how much i hate whats happening or going on down there there f**k all i can do this season. So we have to roll with it and take it on the chin for now untill either promises are broken or we jump for joy once they have been addressed but of course this takes time for either outcome.

I can honestly say Gwyn never threatened me like some think.

I had got carried away with the personna I had created with "Polo" and Gwyn just gave me a bit of a reality check. Like I said the scenario he put to me was more friendly advice rather than a threat.

Besides it was hard work playing the pantomime villain all the time. I was taking on up to 10 people at once ffs.

Can we not turn this into personal insults against Carl please theres no need for it.

It was not meant to be an anti-Carl thread my question is aimed at those in general who are undermiming the club at any opportunity.

I only used Carl as one example as his "spat" with Steve Borley is current affairs, plus there was a very controversial thread by Carl yesterday on VT/Sam. Lets not forget Carl was also instrumental in calming fans down when VT threatened to do one.

I'm not being anti Carl, just stating I believe he doesn't have his own opinion..in my opinion..

Wasnt aimed at you mate

I dont think calling Carl "hammams sock puppet" is helpful to the thread.

Yeah your right, last thing we need is in fighting and silly primary school type arguments

agree mate but just for clarity my brothers bigger than your brother

Lets hope the Jacks dont come on this thread they will trump us with my father has more fingers than your father.

CP76 for Mod!

i dont get what you mean by "undermining"? is undermining being against the re-brand and "how dare we" to voice our concerns and opinions which do not share VT/TG's views?

i made myself clear, i am a 100% cardiff fan, and its the club i love, not its owners. whenever i can make it to games this season, i will support the team.
however we need to keep the campaign against the red and beermat running throughout the season, imo. if we dont, they will say "nobody's against it, therefore we keep going with the current crest and colour", just like they said "the vast majority is for red against blue and wants a dragon crest!"

supporting malky and the boys and protest against colour and that thing goes hand in hand with me, it is OUR club.

Our voice and concerns have been raised. Raising them every minute of every day is not going to change the fact we are playing in red this season. FACT.

And I am sorry but I just cannot agree that protesting and supporting go hand in hand. There is no logic in that whatsoever.

I think continuing to bleat about it, and protest about it will have an adverse effect on the pitch and that is why it is undermiming the club.

Like or not the guy is keeping the club afloat. "Debt, interest at 7%" i hear you say, maybe but without his money where do we go then? Back to shitting ourselves at the the thought of him pulling out?

Keep poking a dog with a stick and eventually he will bite.

I know we play in red this season, nevertheless we need to show them opposition to it. Its just the personal preference of one guy, no business reason or marketing. if we let it go nothing will change, and protesting against that and supporting the team does go hand in hand. its been done before at other clubs, why would Cardiff be the exception?

To me its more that many are used to follow what their leaders are saying. Today its red, tomorrow's yellow... we had that under Hammam, then Risdale and now Tan. To me they are all the same, and I would want a completely different setup than having rich guys controlling and "owning" our club. Again, it is possible anywhere else, so nobody come up and say its impossible. Do I want the Malaysians out in the short term? No, cos then we are most prob fooked...but in the long term: yes

and that's not just because of the re-brand. I said this under Hamman, when many people thought the world of him. I dont want the club that I, that WE, love being a toy of a rich guy, who will let us die in the minute he can make a profit out of it. Remember Hamilton at Wrexham? Same thing, he saw he could enrich himself by letting the club die, selling the Racecourse etc.

I'm a fan of Cardiff City Football Club, not TG/VT/Hammam/Risdale or whoever...

CP76 for Mod!

f**k off there be nobody left on here

I know we play in red this season, nevertheless we need to show them opposition to it. Its just the personal preference of one guy, no business reason or marketing. if we let it go nothing will change, and protesting against that and supporting the team does go hand in hand. its been done before at other clubs, why would Cardiff be the exception?

To me its more that many are used to follow what their leaders are saying. Today its red, tomorrow's yellow... we had that under Hammam, then Risdale and now Tan. To me they are all the same, and I would want a completely different setup than having rich guys controlling and "owning" our club. Again, it is possible anywhere else, so nobody come up and say its impossible. Do I want the Malaysians out in the short term? No, cos then we are most prob fooked...but in the long term: yes

and that's not just because of the re-brand. I said this under Hamman, when many people thought the world of him. I dont want the club that I, that WE, love being a toy of a rich guy, who will let us die in the minute he can make a profit out of it. Remember Hamilton at Wrexham? Same thing, he saw he could enrich himself by letting the club die, selling the Racecourse etc.

I'm a fan of Cardiff City Football Club, not TG/VT/Hammam/Risdale or whoever...

The problem is by saying you are going to ‘protest’ you are coming over as confrontational and that will lose you support with the vast majority of the CCFC fan base.

However, if you say you are looking to lobby for a return of the Blue shirt then the reluctant reds will start to listen.

You have to accept there is no quick fix when it comes to returning the Blue shirt, but communication is much better than confrontation at this point.

VT has to be persuaded that the Blue shirt returning would be beneficial not only to us but to him as well.

Brain over brawn will win this as silly futile protests will get us nowhere.

What the f**k is going on, Polo.....you're being sensible, im getting worried

Polo had to go. Too negative.

This is the new improved CP76

Hey polo what's the significance of CP76? just curious. You are dead right too we should all be 100% behind the football club

I know we play in red this season, nevertheless we need to show them opposition to it. Its just the personal preference of one guy, no business reason or marketing. if we let it go nothing will change, and protesting against that and supporting the team does go hand in hand. its been done before at other clubs, why would Cardiff be the exception?

To me its more that many are used to follow what their leaders are saying. Today its red, tomorrow's yellow... we had that under Hammam, then Risdale and now Tan. To me they are all the same, and I would want a completely different setup than having rich guys controlling and "owning" our club. Again, it is possible anywhere else, so nobody come up and say its impossible. Do I want the Malaysians out in the short term? No, cos then we are most prob fooked...but in the long term: yes

and that's not just because of the re-brand. I said this under Hamman, when many people thought the world of him. I dont want the club that I, that WE, love being a toy of a rich guy, who will let us die in the minute he can make a profit out of it. Remember Hamilton at Wrexham? Same thing, he saw he could enrich himself by letting the club die, selling the Racecourse etc.

I'm a fan of Cardiff City Football Club, not TG/VT/Hammam/Risdale or whoever...

The problem is by saying you are going to ‘protest’ you are coming over as confrontational and that will lose you support with the vast majority of the CCFC fan base.

However, if you say you are looking to lobby for a return of the Blue shirt then the reluctant reds will start to listen.

You have to accept there is no quick fix when it comes to returning the Blue shirt, but communication is much better than confrontation at this point.

VT has to be persuaded that the Blue shirt returning would be beneficial not only to us but to him as well.

Brain over brawn will win this as silly futile protests will get us nowhere.

LOBBYING!

the perfect word.

Its obvious we cannot afford to antagonise Vincent Tan.

By remaining loyal to the Club and at least to the Bluebird on the badge. We can continue
to support City passionately and underline what a f*cking good Club we are to own. But
by quietly and politely saying no to the merchandise... what choice will Tan have but to
admit it was a mistake? He CANNOT blame the fans for not buying something they don't
like. Huge backlogs of orders for the Blue shirt (even though it has the beermat on) would
do his head in. But again, we are doing nothing wrong. He CHOSE to give us the red stuff....
we just politely and quietly choose not to buy it. It doesnt need to be a campaign as such.

LOBBYING!

the perfect word.

Its obvious we cannot afford to antagonise Vincent Tan.

By remaining loyal to the Club and at least to the Bluebird on the badge. We can continue
to support City passionately and underline what a f*cking good Club we are to own. But
by quietly and politely saying no to the merchandise... what choice will Tan have but to
admit it was a mistake? He CANNOT blame the fans for not buying something they don't
like. Huge backlogs of orders for the Blue shirt (even though it has the beermat on) would
do his head in. But again, we are doing nothing wrong. He CHOSE to give us the red stuff....
we just politely and quietly choose not to buy it. It doesnt need to be a campaign as such.

I think a boycotting of the merchandise is going happen passively. The reluctant reds can just about stomach the team playing in red but I can't see many buying a top and wearing it (I know I won’t be)

This is where the lobbying would come in, if the KCB screw their heads on they can manipulate this in their favour.

What the f**k is going on, Polo.....you're being sensible, im getting worried

Polo had to go. Too negative.

This is the new improved CP76

Hey polo what's the significance of CP76? just curious. You are dead right too we should all be 100% behind the football club

Double meaning - initials and year of birth,
Also two of my favourite labels - cp company and 6876.

Hofmeister where has protesting and supporting gone hand in glove and been succesful?

Even at a club as succesful as Man U it had an adverse effect to such a point Fergie had to ask the fans to back off the negativity was affecting his lads.

As Taffy Apple aludes to theres more ways to skin a cat. Confrontating and protesting against the man whos keeping the club alive is a very risky strategy.

The club at every opportunity?

I just want to undermine that tw*t who I stuck up for until he lied about us playing in blue, changed our badge and colours for no solid reason. I am happy to stick by my guns. Part of my identity is my Cardiff City.

The blue shirt is an important part of that. I would be supporting the c**t if he didn't show complete disrespect to my club's identity and change the f*cking colours so we look like Bristol f*cking City with a Village People motto and a big f*cking name of some far off third world dictatorship on it.

The club at every opportunity?

I just want to undermine that tw*t who I stuck up for until he lied about us playing in blue, changed our badge and colours for no solid reason. I am happy to stick by my guns. Part of my identity is my Cardiff City.

The blue shirt is an important part of that. I would be supporting the c**t if he didn't show complete disrespect to my club's identity and change the f*cking colours so we look like Bristol f*cking City with a Village People motto and a big f*cking name of some far off third world dictatorship on it.

I was as angry as you but then I had a rethink. Hes the same tw*t who is single handidly keeping the club alive.

Without him we might not have a club. Hes got us over a barrell.

Carl I am man enough to admit my back peddle for the good of this football club.

I include myself in the back pedalling and shitting myself in the OP.

As much as I hate the red there is nothing we can do for this season and so far VT has kept his word on improving the squad. Therefore I will be getting behind the club, malky and the lads.

You say you are still pro rebrand and pro VT yet your recent threads and posts tell a different story. You were also photograpged with anti red banner which contradicts your stance up until recently.

i had it from a good source that at the time the photo was taken carl didnt even know what century he was in

Can we not turn this into personal insults against Carl please theres no need for it.

It was not meant to be an anti-Carl thread my question is aimed at those in general who are undermiming the club at any opportunity.

I only used Carl as one example as his "spat" with Steve Borley is current affairs, plus there was a very controversial thread by Carl yesterday on VT/Sam. Lets not forget Carl was also instrumental in calming fans down when VT threatened to do one.

I'm not being anti Carl, just stating I believe he doesn't have his own opinion..in my opinion..

Wasnt aimed at you mate

I dont think calling Carl "hammams sock puppet" is helpful to the thread.

Yeah your right, last thing we need is in fighting and silly primary school type arguments

agree mate but just for clarity my brothers bigger than your brother

Aint got a brother....got 2 hard as f*ck sisters

Can we not turn this into personal insults against Carl please theres no need for it.

It was not meant to be an anti-Carl thread my question is aimed at those in general who are undermiming the club at any opportunity.

I only used Carl as one example as his "spat" with Steve Borley is current affairs, plus there was a very controversial thread by Carl yesterday on VT/Sam. Lets not forget Carl was also instrumental in calming fans down when VT threatened to do one.

I'm not being anti Carl, just stating I believe he doesn't have his own opinion..in my opinion..

Wasnt aimed at you mate

I dont think calling Carl "hammams sock puppet" is helpful to the thread.

Yeah your right, last thing we need is in fighting and silly primary school type arguments

agree mate but just for clarity my brothers bigger than your brother

Aint got a brother....got 2 hard as f*ck sisters

photos

would give you a heart attack, and your wife would hunt me down and kill me

I know we play in red this season, nevertheless we need to show them opposition to it. Its just the personal preference of one guy, no business reason or marketing. if we let it go nothing will change, and protesting against that and supporting the team does go hand in hand. its been done before at other clubs, why would Cardiff be the exception?

To me its more that many are used to follow what their leaders are saying. Today its red, tomorrow's yellow... we had that under Hammam, then Risdale and now Tan. To me they are all the same, and I would want a completely different setup than having rich guys controlling and "owning" our club. Again, it is possible anywhere else, so nobody come up and say its impossible. Do I want the Malaysians out in the short term? No, cos then we are most prob fooked...but in the long term: yes

and that's not just because of the re-brand. I said this under Hamman, when many people thought the world of him. I dont want the club that I, that WE, love being a toy of a rich guy, who will let us die in the minute he can make a profit out of it. Remember Hamilton at Wrexham? Same thing, he saw he could enrich himself by letting the club die, selling the Racecourse etc.

I'm a fan of Cardiff City Football Club, not TG/VT/Hammam/Risdale or whoever...

The problem is by saying you are going to ‘protest’ you are coming over as confrontational and that will lose you support with the vast majority of the CCFC fan base.

However, if you say you are looking to lobby for a return of the Blue shirt then the reluctant reds will start to listen.

You have to accept there is no quick fix when it comes to returning the Blue shirt, but communication is much better than confrontation at this point.

VT has to be persuaded that the Blue shirt returning would be beneficial not only to us but to him as well.

Brain over brawn will win this as silly futile protests will get us nowhere.

What a sensible well thought out post Tony.

CP76 for Mod!

No way Im a poacher not a gamekeeper

The club at every opportunity?

I just want to undermine that tw*t who I stuck up for until he lied about us playing in blue, changed our badge and colours for no solid reason. I am happy to stick by my guns. Part of my identity is my Cardiff City.

The blue shirt is an important part of that. I would be supporting the c**t if he didn't show complete disrespect to my club's identity and change the f*cking colours so we look like Bristol f*cking City with a Village People motto and a big f*cking name of some far off third world dictatorship on it.

I was as angry as you but then I had a rethink. Hes the same tw*t who is single handidly keeping the club alive.

Without him we might not have a club. Hes got us over a barrell.

And he is taking us into more and more debt. I see your point. I am just really f*cking angry.

I know we play in red this season, nevertheless we need to show them opposition to it. Its just the personal preference of one guy, no business reason or marketing. if we let it go nothing will change, and protesting against that and supporting the team does go hand in hand. its been done before at other clubs, why would Cardiff be the exception?

To me its more that many are used to follow what their leaders are saying. Today its red, tomorrow's yellow... we had that under Hammam, then Risdale and now Tan. To me they are all the same, and I would want a completely different setup than having rich guys controlling and "owning" our club. Again, it is possible anywhere else, so nobody come up and say its impossible. Do I want the Malaysians out in the short term? No, cos then we are most prob fooked...but in the long term: yes

and that's not just because of the re-brand. I said this under Hamman, when many people thought the world of him. I dont want the club that I, that WE, love being a toy of a rich guy, who will let us die in the minute he can make a profit out of it. Remember Hamilton at Wrexham? Same thing, he saw he could enrich himself by letting the club die, selling the Racecourse etc.

I'm a fan of Cardiff City Football Club, not TG/VT/Hammam/Risdale or whoever...

The problem is by saying you are going to ‘protest’ you are coming over as confrontational and that will lose you support with the vast majority of the CCFC fan base.

However, if you say you are looking to lobby for a return of the Blue shirt then the reluctant reds will start to listen.

You have to accept there is no quick fix when it comes to returning the Blue shirt, but communication is much better than confrontation at this point.

VT has to be persuaded that the Blue shirt returning would be beneficial not only to us but to him as well.

Brain over brawn will win this as silly futile protests will get us nowhere.

LOBBYING!

the perfect word.

Its obvious we cannot afford to antagonise Vincent Tan.

B

y remaining loyal to the Club and at least to the Bluebird on the badge. We can continue
to support City passionately and underline what a f*cking good Club we are to own. But
by quietly and politely saying no to the merchandise... what choice will Tan have but to
admit it was a mistake? He CANNOT blame the fans for not buying something they don't
like. Huge backlogs of orders for the Blue shirt (even though it has the beermat on) would
do his head in. But again, we are doing nothing wrong. He CHOSE to give us the red stuff....
we just politely and quietly choose not to buy it. It doesnt need to be a campaign as such.

Agreed, At this time Mr Tan is not interested in what Cardiff fans want or dont want, a LARGE STOCK PILE of unwanted merchandise is just about the only way to make a point to the owner sadly!!

Hofmeister where has protesting and supporting gone hand in glove and been succesful?

Even at a club as succesful as Man U it had an adverse effect to such a point Fergie had to ask the fans to back off the negativity was affecting his lads.

As Taffy Apple aludes to theres more ways to skin a cat. Confrontating and protesting against the man whos keeping the club alive is a very risky strategy.

Braunschweig were to change their home colours from yellow to blue - fans protested - change reverted.
Karlsruhe changed crest, fans not happy protested, they went back to the original crest, same goes for kaiserlautern who just re-re-branded this summer back to the previous crest, same for Eintracht Frankfurt a few years ago, or Bayern Munich who played in blue-red and navy blue for a few seasons until they gave in to the fans and went back to their traditional red and white...
Schalke had a yellow away strip, fans going bonkers, club introduced a white away shirt instandly, yellow shirt stock ended up in africa, as the club said they sold around 30 yellow shirts over that season...

just a few examples where protesting worked, they were all peaceful. and when i say protest i dont mean rioting or burning flags or banner slaggin of people. a protest against the re-brand in favour of our colours and crest at the same time as influentual people try to win tg/vt over.

Hofmeister where has protesting and supporting gone hand in glove and been succesful?

Even at a club as succesful as Man U it had an adverse effect to such a point Fergie had to ask the fans to back off the negativity was affecting his lads.

As Taffy Apple aludes to theres more ways to skin a cat. Confrontating and protesting against the man whos keeping the club alive is a very risky strategy.

Braunschweig were to change their home colours from yellow to blue - fans protested - change reverted.
Karlsruhe changed crest, fans not happy protested, they went back to the original crest, same goes for kaiserlautern who just re-re-branded this summer back to the previous crest, same for Eintracht Frankfurt a few years ago, or Bayern Munich who played in blue-red and navy blue for a few seasons until they gave in to the fans and went back to their traditional red and white...
Schalke had a yellow away strip, fans going bonkers, club introduced a white away shirt instandly, yellow shirt stock ended up in africa, as the club said they sold around 30 yellow shirts over that season...

just a few examples where protesting worked, they were all peaceful. and when i say protest i dont mean rioting or burning flags or banner slaggin of people. a protest against the re-brand in favour of our colours and crest at the same time as influentual people try to win tg/vt over.

So it was Lobbying which won the day at those clubs? I have no problem with lobbying nor have I got a problem with someone like you lobbying on my behalf, but what I don't want is a direct confrontational approach, that serves no-one's interests.

Hofmeister where has protesting and supporting gone hand in glove and been succesful?

Even at a club as succesful as Man U it had an adverse effect to such a point Fergie had to ask the fans to back off the negativity was affecting his lads.

As Taffy Apple aludes to theres more ways to skin a cat. Confrontating and protesting against the man whos keeping the club alive is a very risky strategy.

Braunschweig were to change their home colours from yellow to blue - fans protested - change reverted.
Karlsruhe changed crest, fans not happy protested, they went back to the original crest, same goes for kaiserlautern who just re-re-branded this summer back to the previous crest, same for Eintracht Frankfurt a few years ago, or Bayern Munich who played in blue-red and navy blue for a few seasons until they gave in to the fans and went back to their traditional red and white...
Schalke had a yellow away strip, fans going bonkers, club introduced a white away shirt instandly, yellow shirt stock ended up in africa, as the club said they sold around 30 yellow shirts over that season...

just a few examples where protesting worked, they were all peaceful. and when i say protest i dont mean rioting or burning flags or banner slaggin of people. a protest against the re-brand in favour of our colours and crest at the same time as influentual people try to win tg/vt over.

So it was Lobbying which won the day at those clubs? I have no problem with lobbying nor have I got a problem with someone like you lobbying on my behalf, but what I don't want is a direct confrontational approach, that serves no-one's interests.

if you call fans with banners in protest against the changes and in favour of their old crests/colours "lobbying", then it's "lobbying"...

Hofmeister where has protesting and supporting gone hand in glove and been succesful?

Even at a club as succesful as Man U it had an adverse effect to such a point Fergie had to ask the fans to back off the negativity was affecting his lads.

As Taffy Apple aludes to theres more ways to skin a cat. Confrontating and protesting against the man whos keeping the club alive is a very risky strategy.

Braunschweig were to change their home colours from yellow to blue - fans protested - change reverted.
Karlsruhe changed crest, fans not happy protested, they went back to the original crest, same goes for kaiserlautern who just re-re-branded this summer back to the previous crest, same for Eintracht Frankfurt a few years ago, or Bayern Munich who played in blue-red and navy blue for a few seasons until they gave in to the fans and went back to their traditional red and white...
Schalke had a yellow away strip, fans going bonkers, club introduced a white away shirt instandly, yellow shirt stock ended up in africa, as the club said they sold around 30 yellow shirts over that season...

just a few examples where protesting worked, they were all peaceful. and when i say protest i dont mean rioting or burning flags or banner slaggin of people. a protest against the re-brand in favour of our colours and crest at the same time as influentual people try to win tg/vt over.

So it was Lobbying which won the day at those clubs? I have no problem with lobbying nor have I got a problem with someone like you lobbying on my behalf, but what I don't want is a direct confrontational approach, that serves no-one's interests.

if you call fans with banners in protest against the changes and in favour of their old crests/colours "lobbying", then it's "lobbying"...

Well if you go that route you are heading for one big fall...

Hofmeister where has protesting and supporting gone hand in glove and been succesful?

Even at a club as succesful as Man U it had an adverse effect to such a point Fergie had to ask the fans to back off the negativity was affecting his lads.

As Taffy Apple aludes to theres more ways to skin a cat. Confrontating and protesting against the man whos keeping the club alive is a very risky strategy.

Braunschweig were to change their home colours from yellow to blue - fans protested - change reverted.
Karlsruhe changed crest, fans not happy protested, they went back to the original crest, same goes for kaiserlautern who just re-re-branded this summer back to the previous crest, same for Eintracht Frankfurt a few years ago, or Bayern Munich who played in blue-red and navy blue for a few seasons until they gave in to the fans and went back to their traditional red and white...
Schalke had a yellow away strip, fans going bonkers, club introduced a white away shirt instandly, yellow shirt stock ended up in africa, as the club said they sold around 30 yellow shirts over that season...

just a few examples where protesting worked, they were all peaceful. and when i say protest i dont mean rioting or burning flags or banner slaggin of people. a protest against the re-brand in favour of our colours and crest at the same time as influentual people try to win tg/vt over.

So it was Lobbying which won the day at those clubs? I have no problem with lobbying nor have I got a problem with someone like you lobbying on my behalf, but what I don't want is a direct confrontational approach, that serves no-one's interests.

if you call fans with banners in protest against the changes and in favour of their old crests/colours "lobbying", then it's "lobbying"...

Well if you go that route you are heading for one big fall...

why?

why?

As I have already explained because you need to get the reluctant reds and VT on board. By protesting you look confrontational and that will turn people against you as they will judge you as the local rent a mob. If you lobby using fan data for example (i.e. sales of shirts are down, season tickets are down etc) you will look reasonable intelligent people when presenting your case to VT.

Also as a businessman he is bound to respect that approach rather than banners and shouting outside of the football stadium.

Not only that but by taking the protesting route he might feel alienated and up sticks and f**k off leaving us in deep shite and who do you think will then get the blame?

why?

As I have already explained because you need to get the reluctant reds and VT on board. By protesting you look confrontational and that will turn people against you as they will judge you as the local rent a mob. If you lobby using fan data for example (i.e. sales of shirts are down, season tickets are down etc) you will look reasonable intelligent people when presenting your case to VT.

Also as a businessman he is bound to respect that approach rather than banners and shouting outside of the football stadium.

Not only that but by taking the protesting route he might feel alienated and up sticks and f**k off leaving us in deep shite and who do you think will then get the blame?

dont see it that way, by not doing anything we look like not being opposed to the re-brand and in agreement. there is a difference between demonstrating and rioting. and I very much doubt they would leave just because of protests. remember they are businessmen and already invested money. so if they drop us they loose that money, they will either keep on going or selling us to somebody else, to get their money back. and that new buyer wont drop us either as he wont pay a lot of money and not getting anything back

Sell us to someonelse? What mugs going to pay 70-80m for us?

Sell us to someonelse? What mugs going to pay 70-80m for us?

exactly, so I doubt they would leave at all, and thats what Whiteley said too... just letting us drop they loose their money and face in asia