What is Tan is up to - My Belief.

Apparently, due to us rebranding, we will get money from the govt. Can anyone clarify whether this is true?

Apparently, due to us rebranding, we will get money from the govt. Can anyone clarify whether this is true?

It's not true.

Apparently, due to us rebranding, we will get money from the govt. Can anyone clarify whether this is true?

It's not true.

Stop being negative.

Apparently, due to us rebranding, we will get money from the govt. Can anyone clarify whether this is true?

It's not true.

Stop being negative.

Is that negative or a fact?

didnt think it mattered did it?

The general feeling earlier was that people seemed to want to ignore the facts and make it up as you so wish, as long as its positive?

didnt think it mattered did it?

The general feeling earlier was that people seemed to want to ignore the facts and make it up as you so wish, as long as its positive?

That appears to be your take on the situation - in other words, your opinion.

didnt think it mattered did it?

The general feeling earlier was that people seemed to want to ignore the facts and make it up as you so wish, as long as its positive?

That appears to be your take on the situation - in other words, your opinion.

correct, now you are getting it.

didnt think it mattered did it?

The general feeling earlier was that people seemed to want to ignore the facts and make it up as you so wish, as long as its positive?

That appears to be your take on the situation - in other words, your opinion.

correct, now you are getting it.

I get that you deal in facts and opinions, but you said you only deal in facts - and that's a fact. You can find your post where you said that, if you want to.

didnt think it mattered did it?

The general feeling earlier was that people seemed to want to ignore the facts and make it up as you so wish, as long as its positive?

That appears to be your take on the situation - in other words, your opinion.

correct, now you are getting it.

I get that you deal in facts and opinions, but you said you only deal in facts - and that's a fact. You can find your post where you said that, if you want to.

I do when talking about football or at very least fact based opinion. and the above was actually an observation rather than an opinion as I witnessed it happen.

didnt think it mattered did it?

The general feeling earlier was that people seemed to want to ignore the facts and make it up as you so wish, as long as its positive?

That appears to be your take on the situation - in other words, your opinion.

correct, now you are getting it.

I get that you deal in facts and opinions, but you said you only deal in facts - and that's a fact. You can find your post where you said that, if you want to.

I do when talking about football or at very least fact based opinion. and the above was actually an observation rather than an opinion as I witnessed it happen.

It was your interpretation of a situation.

Yep an observation based on what I saw and previous factual evidence making a fact based observation.

Yep an observation based on what I saw and previous factual evidence making a fact based observation.

RoathMagic u jack b*stard get back to your own shite forum CCFC til i die woteva league wer in

Conspiracy, conspiracy, conspiracy!!!!! Well I think all of us would have rather stayed blue but hey ho here we go again. The one thing we cannot say about Tan is the fact that he is walking the walk as well as talking the talk
Fact - £10M spent on transfers in this Summer ( the largest amount any club spent in this division without any parachute payment)
Fact - We have a squad that everybody else in this division are envious of
Fact - Tan has not gone back an his statement of intent in any way (a number of the ellements of his commitment will take time to come into being)
Fact - people are making up more conspiracy theories that most of us change our socks

AND THE MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL WE ARE ALL ON ONE HELL OF A JOURNEY now that is a conspiracy!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok well a lot of people seem to be buying into this 'Malaysian plan' where we are going to become self sufficient by marketing us in Asia. To the business minded, this should make no sense at all. QPR have a Malaysian owner, have a red away shirt, TF owns Air Asia, they go on tour there, have a very high profile Asian player, can be watched every week, are in the Prem are spending money like its going out of fashion - yet make no impact in Asia. Why would we?!

WE WON`T. IT WILL TAKE SEVERAL YEARS OF BEING A SUCCESSFUL PREMIER TEAM TO EVEN HAVE A CHANCE OF A HIGH PROFILE THROUGHOUT ASIA - WE WILL BE COMPETING AGAINST TEAMS LIKE MAN UTD AND LIVERPOOL EVEN THEN.CLUBS LIKE ARSENAL ,EVERTON AND CHELSEA CAN`T PENETRATE THE MARKET TO ANY GREAT EXTENT , SO WHY SHOULD WE?.

Shirt sales? some quick stats for you. Liverpool are BY FAR the biggest club in terms of shirt sales in Asia, shifting 900,000 a season across the continent. They only make £8 per jersey sold at rrp with the rest going to the manufacturer and handling. £8 is also one of the highest returns on a jersey negotiated by a football club. Ours is more likely to be around £5 profit per jersey. Just to cover our shortfall for the year we will need to sell 2.88 million jereys every season, more than 3 times that of Liverpool. To put that into perpective - we sell around 8000 jerseys a year currently.

I DISAGREE WITH SOME OF YOUR PROFIT FIGURES (I UNDERSTAND THEM TO BE LOWER THAN YOU QUOTE AND YOU ARE INCLUDING 20% V.A.T AS WELL).BUT I AGREE ENTIRELY THAT VOLUMES OF REPLICA KIT SALES WILL BE LOW.

Sponsorship - probably the most plausable in terms of revenue but still far fetched. First of all, businesses sponsor things that can be seen, not just by anyone either - their target market. Most Asian businesses operate within Asia and will want to boost or maximise their revenue in Asia. Now the, first of all thet benefit to an Asian business by advertising in Wales/England is not a great buiness move as you are missing your target audience. Secondly, we are on TV a few times a year, nobody is going to pay to place their companys name somewhere than nobody can see.

CURRENT ADVERTISING AT THE GROUND ON THE ELECTRONIC BOARDS IS PRINCIPALLY FOR COMPANIES OWNED BY VT ADVERTISING THEMSELVES BACK IN MALAYSIA BY BEAM BACK.THIS EARNS THE CLUB SOME ADVERTISING REVENUE BUT I SUSPECT VERY LITTLE AS VT WILL CONTROL HOW MUCH THE RATE IS AND WILL , IN ANY CASE , JUST OFFSET THE AGREED FEES AGAINST WHAT HE IS OWED.


I make a point of always dealing in facts, well... rarely im going for pure opinion here. Educated opinion, but opinion all the same. This is what I think has happened and what is going on....

The Initial gamble

Tan was informed by TG that an investment in the club will be a good business gamble (risk reward ratio) as a £6 million investment for 40% stake could net him 40% of future Premiership profits plus a vessel to advertise worldwide, not to mention the opportunity to loan the financially failing club the shortfall with the ability to tack on interest .

AGREED

Unexpected twists

We dont go up. Tans 12 month investment of the initial purchase and shortfall covering hits £19.4 million. too much to walk away from. He has another go hoping for promotion... We fail yet again and his investment is now past £30 million - a desperate situation for Tan. He now owns 40% of a club yet has put in 200% of its total worth

THE INVESTMENT WAS UP TO £14.8M IN LOANS AND £6M IN SHARES BY 31 MAY 2011 AND WAS THEN STATED BY THE CLUB TO HAVE RISEN BY A FURTHER £20M OF LOANS TO £40.8M BY THE BEGINNING OF MAY 2012.


Contingency plan

If we went into administration his money would be lost, the loans so far have been essentially unsecured loans. He now plans to turn everything into equity aswell as getting rid of any threat to liquidate the club thus putting him in a position of not getting back his full entitlement as this way he will be the only creditor. But he insists that the total figure will be £100 million.


ALL LOANS TO DATE FROM VT HAVE BEEN SECURED NOT UNSECURED. IF HE CONVERTS ALL DEBT TO EQUITY , THEN HE WON`T BE A CREDITOR AT ALL.

He now has instantly turned the unsecured loans into secured loans - very clever. The stadium (coincidentally cost £100 million) is now his, as will be the real estate he is buying with the other part of the 'investment' (training ground) and the players. In this investment is also the cash to cover the shortfall for the next 12 months.

THERE HASN`T BEEN ANY CONVERSION OF UNSECURED LOANS INTO SECURED ONES.THEY WERE ALWAYS SECURED.

THE STADIUM DIDN`T COST ANYTHING LIKE £100M - IT COST THE CLUB £26.3M . EVEN ON A REPLACEMENT COST BASIS , IT HAS ONLY BEEN REVALUED AT £44.6M.

THE TRAINING GROUND HASN`T EVEN BEEN BUILT YET , LET ALONE PAID FOR SO IT WILL BE A LITTLE DIFFICULT TO SELL.
If we go up this season he will be in a better position than he would have been initally. If we dont then he can bail and not lose any money from the venture by selling the players, stadium and training ground. Widely known in business as 'asset stripping.' But I genuinelly dont think he will be putting his hand in his pocket any more, which means its this season or nothing in terms of usbenefitting from this.

THE STADIUM CAN`T BE SOLD - IT WILL REVERT TO THE COUNCIL IN THE CASE OF AN INSOLVENCY.WHO WILL THEN HAVE SELLING RIGHTS FOR AT LEAST 20 YEARS . IF NO INSOLVENCY , THE COUNCIL STILL CAN VETO ANY SALE UNDER THE RESTRICTIVE COVENANT.
THE PLAYERS WE HAVE SIGNED ARE GOOD , BUT HARDLY HAVE A REALISABLE VALUE APPROACHING ANYTHING LIKE £100M SO I DON`T SEE HOW YOU CAN SAY VT WOULD NOT LOSE ANY MONEY ON A BAILOUT.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_stripping

So please dont be fooled into thinking that because Tan is a billionaire that means we are going to be a success as it all points to the opposite, hes got us by the balls and the only one who is going to come out of this smelling of roses is him.

THE ONLY THING THAT GIVES ME ANY COMFORT IS THE FACT THAT OUR CLUB NEEDS TO BE AN ESTABLISHED PREMIER CLUB FOR VT TO MAKE ANY MONEY FROM US. EVEN THEN , THE CLUB ITSELF WILL STRUGGLE TO MAKE MUCH MONEY EACH SEASON. BUT AT LEAST VT WILL THEN NOT HAVE TO UNDERWRITE LOSSES IF IT BREAKS EVEN , AND WILL ENJOY THE SPIN-OFFS ALL THE OTHER COMPANIES THAT HE OWNS PERSONALLY BY WAY OF RAISING THEIR PROFILE .

Ok well a lot of people seem to be buying into this 'Malaysian plan' where we are going to become self sufficient by marketing us in Asia. To the business minded, this should make no sense at all. QPR have a Malaysian owner, have a red away shirt, TF owns Air Asia, they go on tour there, have a very high profile Asian player, can be watched every week, are in the Prem are spending money like its going out of fashion - yet make no impact in Asia. Why would we?!

WE WON`T. IT WILL TAKE SEVERAL YEARS OF BEING A SUCCESSFUL PREMIER TEAM TO EVEN HAVE A CHANCE OF A HIGH PROFILE THROUGHOUT ASIA - WE WILL BE COMPETING AGAINST TEAMS LIKE MAN UTD AND LIVERPOOL EVEN THEN.CLUBS LIKE ARSENAL ,EVERTON AND CHELSEA CAN`T PENETRATE THE MARKET TO ANY GREAT EXTENT , SO WHY SHOULD WE?.

Shirt sales? some quick stats for you. Liverpool are BY FAR the biggest club in terms of shirt sales in Asia, shifting 900,000 a season across the continent. They only make £8 per jersey sold at rrp with the rest going to the manufacturer and handling. £8 is also one of the highest returns on a jersey negotiated by a football club. Ours is more likely to be around £5 profit per jersey. Just to cover our shortfall for the year we will need to sell 2.88 million jereys every season, more than 3 times that of Liverpool. To put that into perpective - we sell around 8000 jerseys a year currently.

I DISAGREE WITH SOME OF YOUR PROFIT FIGURES (I UNDERSTAND THEM TO BE LOWER THAN YOU QUOTE AND YOU ARE INCLUDING 20% V.A.T AS WELL).BUT I AGREE ENTIRELY THAT VOLUMES OF REPLICA KIT SALES WILL BE LOW.

Sponsorship - probably the most plausable in terms of revenue but still far fetched. First of all, businesses sponsor things that can be seen, not just by anyone either - their target market. Most Asian businesses operate within Asia and will want to boost or maximise their revenue in Asia. Now the, first of all thet benefit to an Asian business by advertising in Wales/England is not a great buiness move as you are missing your target audience. Secondly, we are on TV a few times a year, nobody is going to pay to place their companys name somewhere than nobody can see.

CURRENT ADVERTISING AT THE GROUND ON THE ELECTRONIC BOARDS IS PRINCIPALLY FOR COMPANIES OWNED BY VT ADVERTISING THEMSELVES BACK IN MALAYSIA BY BEAM BACK.THIS EARNS THE CLUB SOME ADVERTISING REVENUE BUT I SUSPECT VERY LITTLE AS VT WILL CONTROL HOW MUCH THE RATE IS AND WILL , IN ANY CASE , JUST OFFSET THE AGREED FEES AGAINST WHAT HE IS OWED.


I make a point of always dealing in facts, well... rarely im going for pure opinion here. Educated opinion, but opinion all the same. This is what I think has happened and what is going on....

The Initial gamble

Tan was informed by TG that an investment in the club will be a good business gamble (risk reward ratio) as a £6 million investment for 40% stake could net him 40% of future Premiership profits plus a vessel to advertise worldwide, not to mention the opportunity to loan the financially failing club the shortfall with the ability to tack on interest .

AGREED

Unexpected twists

We dont go up. Tans 12 month investment of the initial purchase and shortfall covering hits £19.4 million. too much to walk away from. He has another go hoping for promotion... We fail yet again and his investment is now past £30 million - a desperate situation for Tan. He now owns 40% of a club yet has put in 200% of its total worth

THE INVESTMENT WAS UP TO £14.8M IN LOANS AND £6M IN SHARES BY 31 MAY 2011 AND WAS THEN STATED BY THE CLUB TO HAVE RISEN BY A FURTHER £20M OF LOANS TO £40.8M BY THE BEGINNING OF MAY 2012.


Contingency plan

If we went into administration his money would be lost, the loans so far have been essentially unsecured loans. He now plans to turn everything into equity aswell as getting rid of any threat to liquidate the club thus putting him in a position of not getting back his full entitlement as this way he will be the only creditor. But he insists that the total figure will be £100 million.


ALL LOANS TO DATE FROM VT HAVE BEEN SECURED NOT UNSECURED. IF HE CONVERTS ALL DEBT TO EQUITY , THEN HE WON`T BE A CREDITOR AT ALL.

He now has instantly turned the unsecured loans into secured loans - very clever. The stadium (coincidentally cost £100 million) is now his, as will be the real estate he is buying with the other part of the 'investment' (training ground) and the players. In this investment is also the cash to cover the shortfall for the next 12 months.

THERE HASN`T BEEN ANY CONVERSION OF UNSECURED LOANS INTO SECURED ONES.THEY WERE ALWAYS SECURED.

THE STADIUM DIDN`T COST ANYTHING LIKE £100M - IT COST THE CLUB £26.3M . EVEN ON A REPLACEMENT COST BASIS , IT HAS ONLY BEEN REVALUED AT £44.6M.

THE TRAINING GROUND HASN`T EVEN BEEN BUILT YET , LET ALONE PAID FOR SO IT WILL BE A LITTLE DIFFICULT TO SELL.
If we go up this season he will be in a better position than he would have been initally. If we dont then he can bail and not lose any money from the venture by selling the players, stadium and training ground. Widely known in business as 'asset stripping.' But I genuinelly dont think he will be putting his hand in his pocket any more, which means its this season or nothing in terms of usbenefitting from this.

THE STADIUM CAN`T BE SOLD - IT WILL REVERT TO THE COUNCIL IN THE CASE OF AN INSOLVENCY.WHO WILL THEN HAVE SELLING RIGHTS FOR AT LEAST 20 YEARS . IF NO INSOLVENCY , THE COUNCIL STILL CAN VETO ANY SALE UNDER THE RESTRICTIVE COVENANT.
THE PLAYERS WE HAVE SIGNED ARE GOOD , BUT HARDLY HAVE A REALISABLE VALUE APPROACHING ANYTHING LIKE £100M SO I DON`T SEE HOW YOU CAN SAY VT WOULD NOT LOSE ANY MONEY ON A BAILOUT.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_stripping

So please dont be fooled into thinking that because Tan is a billionaire that means we are going to be a success as it all points to the opposite, hes got us by the balls and the only one who is going to come out of this smelling of roses is him.

THE ONLY THING THAT GIVES ME ANY COMFORT IS THE FACT THAT OUR CLUB NEEDS TO BE AN ESTABLISHED PREMIER CLUB FOR VT TO MAKE ANY MONEY FROM US. EVEN THEN , THE CLUB ITSELF WILL STRUGGLE TO MAKE MUCH MONEY EACH SEASON. BUT AT LEAST VT WILL THEN NOT HAVE TO UNDERWRITE LOSSES IF IT BREAKS EVEN , AND WILL ENJOY THE SPIN-OFFS ALL THE OTHER COMPANIES THAT HE OWNS PERSONALLY BY WAY OF RAISING THEIR PROFILE .

keith what do you think we could be worth once /if we become an established premier team with new training ground etc?

He will make money from tv rights I reckon

Ok well a lot of people seem to be buying into this 'Malaysian plan' where we are going to become self sufficient by marketing us in Asia. To the business minded, this should make no sense at all. QPR have a Malaysian owner, have a red away shirt, TF owns Air Asia, they go on tour there, have a very high profile Asian player, can be watched every week, are in the Prem are spending money like its going out of fashion - yet make no impact in Asia. Why would we?!

Shirt sales? some quick stats for you. Liverpool are BY FAR the biggest club in terms of shirt sales in Asia, shifting 900,000 a season across the continent. They only make £8 per jersey sold at rrp with the rest going to the manufacturer and handling. £8 is also one of the highest returns on a jersey negotiated by a football club. Ours is more likely to be around £5 profit per jersey. Just to cover our shortfall for the year we will need to sell 2.88 million jereys every season, more than 3 times that of Liverpool. To put that into perpective - we sell around 8000 jerseys a year currently.

Sponsorship - probably the most plausable in terms of revenue but still far fetched. First of all, businesses sponsor things that can be seen, not just by anyone either - their target market. Most Asian businesses operate within Asia and will want to boost or maximise their revenue in Asia. Now the, first of all thet benefit to an Asian business by advertising in Wales/England is not a great buiness move as you are missing your target audience. Secondly, we are on TV a few times a year, nobody is going to pay to place their companys name somewhere than nobody can see.


I make a point of always dealing in facts, well... rarely im going for pure opinion here. Educated opinion, but opinion all the same. This is what I think has happened and what is going on....

The Initial gamble

Tan was informed by TG that an investment in the club will be a good business gamble (risk reward ratio) as a £6 million investment for 40% stake could net him 40% of future Premiership profits plus a vessel to advertise worldwide, not to mention the opportunity to loan the financially failing club the shortfall with the ability to tack on interest .

Unexpected twists

We dont go up. Tans 12 month investment of the initial purchase and shortfall covering hits £19.4 million. too much to walk away from. He has another go hoping for promotion... We fail yet again and his investment is now past £30 million - a desperate situation for Tan. He now owns 40% of a club yet has put in 200% of its total worth

Contingency plan

If we went into administration his money would be lost, the loans so far have been essentially unsecured loans. He now plans to turn everything into equity aswell as getting rid of any threat to liquidate the club thus putting him in a position of not getting back his full entitlement as this way he will be the only creditor. But he insists that the total figure will be £100 million.

He now has instantly turned the unsecured loans into secured loans - very clever. The stadium (coincidentally cost £100 million) is now his, as will be the real estate he is buying with the other part of the 'investment' (training ground) and the players. In this investment is also the cash to cover the shortfall for the next 12 months.

If we go up this season he will be in a better position than he would have been initally. If we dont then he can bail and not lose any money from the venture by selling the players, stadium and training ground. Widely known in business as 'asset stripping.' But I genuinelly dont think he will be putting his hand in his pocket any more, which means its this season or nothing in terms of usbenefitting from this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_stripping

So please dont be fooled into thinking that because Tan is a billionaire that means we are going to be a success as it all points to the opposite, hes got us by the balls and the only one who is going to come out of this smelling of roses is him.

Bit confused. You say he is turning loans into equity and then saying that he is turning unsecured loans into secured ones. I trust you understand that equity is in no way secured? Please explain.

Ok well a lot of people seem to be buying into this 'Malaysian plan' where we are going to become self sufficient by marketing us in Asia. To the business minded, this should make no sense at all. QPR have a Malaysian owner, have a red away shirt, TF owns Air Asia, they go on tour there, have a very high profile Asian player, can be watched every week, are in the Prem are spending money like its going out of fashion - yet make no impact in Asia. Why would we?!

Shirt sales? some quick stats for you. Liverpool are BY FAR the biggest club in terms of shirt sales in Asia, shifting 900,000 a season across the continent. They only make £8 per jersey sold at rrp with the rest going to the manufacturer and handling. £8 is also one of the highest returns on a jersey negotiated by a football club. Ours is more likely to be around £5 profit per jersey. Just to cover our shortfall for the year we will need to sell 2.88 million jereys every season, more than 3 times that of Liverpool. To put that into perpective - we sell around 8000 jerseys a year currently.

Sponsorship - probably the most plausable in terms of revenue but still far fetched. First of all, businesses sponsor things that can be seen, not just by anyone either - their target market. Most Asian businesses operate within Asia and will want to boost or maximise their revenue in Asia. Now the, first of all thet benefit to an Asian business by advertising in Wales/England is not a great buiness move as you are missing your target audience. Secondly, we are on TV a few times a year, nobody is going to pay to place their companys name somewhere than nobody can see.


I make a point of always dealing in facts, well... rarely im going for pure opinion here. Educated opinion, but opinion all the same. This is what I think has happened and what is going on....

The Initial gamble

Tan was informed by TG that an investment in the club will be a good business gamble (risk reward ratio) as a £6 million investment for 40% stake could net him 40% of future Premiership profits plus a vessel to advertise worldwide, not to mention the opportunity to loan the financially failing club the shortfall with the ability to tack on interest .

Unexpected twists

We dont go up. Tans 12 month investment of the initial purchase and shortfall covering hits £19.4 million. too much to walk away from. He has another go hoping for promotion... We fail yet again and his investment is now past £30 million - a desperate situation for Tan. He now owns 40% of a club yet has put in 200% of its total worth

Contingency plan

If we went into administration his money would be lost, the loans so far have been essentially unsecured loans. He now plans to turn everything into equity aswell as getting rid of any threat to liquidate the club thus putting him in a position of not getting back his full entitlement as this way he will be the only creditor. But he insists that the total figure will be £100 million.

He now has instantly turned the unsecured loans into secured loans - very clever. The stadium (coincidentally cost £100 million) is now his, as will be the real estate he is buying with the other part of the 'investment' (training ground) and the players. In this investment is also the cash to cover the shortfall for the next 12 months.

If we go up this season he will be in a better position than he would have been initally. If we dont then he can bail and not lose any money from the venture by selling the players, stadium and training ground. Widely known in business as 'asset stripping.' But I genuinelly dont think he will be putting his hand in his pocket any more, which means its this season or nothing in terms of usbenefitting from this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_stripping

So please dont be fooled into thinking that because Tan is a billionaire that means we are going to be a success as it all points to the opposite, hes got us by the balls and the only one who is going to come out of this smelling of roses is him.

Bit confused. You say he is turning loans into equity and then saying that he is turning unsecured loans into secured ones. I trust you understand that equity is in no way secured? Please explain.

roaths been banned ages ago look at date? gods gift to footy finance was roathy!!

Didn't read.

Asian businessmen loaning to struggling football clubs with the intention of asset tripping is not unknown..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010 ... nistration

Apart from the players what assets do we own, stadium is only good if you have someone to put a team into it which I assume is Cardiff City, we will only be worth anything when the debt is payed off and our assets are worth more than the debt.

Ok well a lot of people seem to be buying into this 'Malaysian plan' where we are going to become self sufficient by marketing us in Asia. To the business minded, this should make no sense at all. QPR have a Malaysian owner, have a red away shirt, TF owns Air Asia, they go on tour there, have a very high profile Asian player, can be watched every week, are in the Prem are spending money like its going out of fashion - yet make no impact in Asia. Why would we?!

WE WON`T. IT WILL TAKE SEVERAL YEARS OF BEING A SUCCESSFUL PREMIER TEAM TO EVEN HAVE A CHANCE OF A HIGH PROFILE THROUGHOUT ASIA - WE WILL BE COMPETING AGAINST TEAMS LIKE MAN UTD AND LIVERPOOL EVEN THEN.CLUBS LIKE ARSENAL ,EVERTON AND CHELSEA CAN`T PENETRATE THE MARKET TO ANY GREAT EXTENT , SO WHY SHOULD WE?.

Shirt sales? some quick stats for you. Liverpool are BY FAR the biggest club in terms of shirt sales in Asia, shifting 900,000 a season across the continent. They only make £8 per jersey sold at rrp with the rest going to the manufacturer and handling. £8 is also one of the highest returns on a jersey negotiated by a football club. Ours is more likely to be around £5 profit per jersey. Just to cover our shortfall for the year we will need to sell 2.88 million jereys every season, more than 3 times that of Liverpool. To put that into perpective - we sell around 8000 jerseys a year currently.

I DISAGREE WITH SOME OF YOUR PROFIT FIGURES (I UNDERSTAND THEM TO BE LOWER THAN YOU QUOTE AND YOU ARE INCLUDING 20% V.A.T AS WELL).BUT I AGREE ENTIRELY THAT VOLUMES OF REPLICA KIT SALES WILL BE LOW.

Sponsorship - probably the most plausable in terms of revenue but still far fetched. First of all, businesses sponsor things that can be seen, not just by anyone either - their target market. Most Asian businesses operate within Asia and will want to boost or maximise their revenue in Asia. Now the, first of all thet benefit to an Asian business by advertising in Wales/England is not a great buiness move as you are missing your target audience. Secondly, we are on TV a few times a year, nobody is going to pay to place their companys name somewhere than nobody can see.

CURRENT ADVERTISING AT THE GROUND ON THE ELECTRONIC BOARDS IS PRINCIPALLY FOR COMPANIES OWNED BY VT ADVERTISING THEMSELVES BACK IN MALAYSIA BY BEAM BACK.THIS EARNS THE CLUB SOME ADVERTISING REVENUE BUT I SUSPECT VERY LITTLE AS VT WILL CONTROL HOW MUCH THE RATE IS AND WILL , IN ANY CASE , JUST OFFSET THE AGREED FEES AGAINST WHAT HE IS OWED.


I make a point of always dealing in facts, well... rarely im going for pure opinion here. Educated opinion, but opinion all the same. This is what I think has happened and what is going on....

The Initial gamble

Tan was informed by TG that an investment in the club will be a good business gamble (risk reward ratio) as a £6 million investment for 40% stake could net him 40% of future Premiership profits plus a vessel to advertise worldwide, not to mention the opportunity to loan the financially failing club the shortfall with the ability to tack on interest .

AGREED

Unexpected twists

We dont go up. Tans 12 month investment of the initial purchase and shortfall covering hits £19.4 million. too much to walk away from. He has another go hoping for promotion... We fail yet again and his investment is now past £30 million - a desperate situation for Tan. He now owns 40% of a club yet has put in 200% of its total worth

THE INVESTMENT WAS UP TO £14.8M IN LOANS AND £6M IN SHARES BY 31 MAY 2011 AND WAS THEN STATED BY THE CLUB TO HAVE RISEN BY A FURTHER £20M OF LOANS TO £40.8M BY THE BEGINNING OF MAY 2012.


Contingency plan

If we went into administration his money would be lost, the loans so far have been essentially unsecured loans. He now plans to turn everything into equity aswell as getting rid of any threat to liquidate the club thus putting him in a position of not getting back his full entitlement as this way he will be the only creditor. But he insists that the total figure will be £100 million.


ALL LOANS TO DATE FROM VT HAVE BEEN SECURED NOT UNSECURED. IF HE CONVERTS ALL DEBT TO EQUITY , THEN HE WON`T BE A CREDITOR AT ALL.

He now has instantly turned the unsecured loans into secured loans - very clever. The stadium (coincidentally cost £100 million) is now his, as will be the real estate he is buying with the other part of the 'investment' (training ground) and the players. In this investment is also the cash to cover the shortfall for the next 12 months.

THERE HASN`T BEEN ANY CONVERSION OF UNSECURED LOANS INTO SECURED ONES.THEY WERE ALWAYS SECURED.

THE STADIUM DIDN`T COST ANYTHING LIKE £100M - IT COST THE CLUB £26.3M . EVEN ON A REPLACEMENT COST BASIS , IT HAS ONLY BEEN REVALUED AT £44.6M.

THE TRAINING GROUND HASN`T EVEN BEEN BUILT YET , LET ALONE PAID FOR SO IT WILL BE A LITTLE DIFFICULT TO SELL.
If we go up this season he will be in a better position than he would have been initally. If we dont then he can bail and not lose any money from the venture by selling the players, stadium and training ground. Widely known in business as 'asset stripping.' But I genuinelly dont think he will be putting his hand in his pocket any more, which means its this season or nothing in terms of usbenefitting from this.

THE STADIUM CAN`T BE SOLD - IT WILL REVERT TO THE COUNCIL IN THE CASE OF AN INSOLVENCY.WHO WILL THEN HAVE SELLING RIGHTS FOR AT LEAST 20 YEARS . IF NO INSOLVENCY , THE COUNCIL STILL CAN VETO ANY SALE UNDER THE RESTRICTIVE COVENANT.
THE PLAYERS WE HAVE SIGNED ARE GOOD , BUT HARDLY HAVE A REALISABLE VALUE APPROACHING ANYTHING LIKE £100M SO I DON`T SEE HOW YOU CAN SAY VT WOULD NOT LOSE ANY MONEY ON A BAILOUT.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_stripping

So please dont be fooled into thinking that because Tan is a billionaire that means we are going to be a success as it all points to the opposite, hes got us by the balls and the only one who is going to come out of this smelling of roses is him.

THE ONLY THING THAT GIVES ME ANY COMFORT IS THE FACT THAT OUR CLUB NEEDS TO BE AN ESTABLISHED PREMIER CLUB FOR VT TO MAKE ANY MONEY FROM US. EVEN THEN , THE CLUB ITSELF WILL STRUGGLE TO MAKE MUCH MONEY EACH SEASON. BUT AT LEAST VT WILL THEN NOT HAVE TO UNDERWRITE LOSSES IF IT BREAKS EVEN , AND WILL ENJOY THE SPIN-OFFS ALL THE OTHER COMPANIES THAT HE OWNS PERSONALLY BY WAY OF RAISING THEIR PROFILE .

keith what do you think we could be worth once /if we become an established premier team with new training ground etc?

I wish I could give you a simple straighforward answer , but it is impossible to say.

What the riches of income of being in the Premier does give you is the opportunity , if you are prudent with how you spend it , to at least breakeven and possibly make a profit. A mid-table Premier team next season will earn at least £65m in TV money alone under the new Sky deal plus all the additional revenues from matchday income , sponsorship , advertising etc - so should be at least £75m (compared to CCFC`s £16m as a Championship club). So , even if our current wage bill was trebled from its current £16m to £48m because we would need better , more expensive players good financial management should mean there is no need for ongoing losses as most of our other costs such as stadium maintenance , admin staff etc are fairly fixed in nature and wouldn`t go up on a promotion.

The kind of income stream outlined above would make it attractive to potential buyers but not without a great deal of risk , because any relegation would cause income to plummet even with parachute payments. But for someone like Vincent Tan , as long as losses are avoided and he doesn`t have to subsidise the football club , the benefits could be huge in terms of the spin-offs he would get for his other businesses. Games watched by millions of potential customers every week in the Far East of our team wearing kit bearing the logo of one of his companies (to replace Malaysia) , most of the pitchside advertising in view also being for his companies , gaining TV rights for his TV company etc. Plus the gravitas or bragging rights for him back home of being the owner of a Premier club might seal a deal or two that he may not otherwise have got.

The club also has the benefit of having only recently built a new stadium. It may not be a saleable asset , but it does mean that any new owner doesn`t have to spend out on such an asset (Fulham and QPR for instance may have to in the near future as developing their grounds where they are is very difficult and even Chelsea have the same problem). The training ground position is a tricky one (I remain to be convinced that this will become a CCFC asset rather than a VT company one which he will rent to the club) as it is both an asset but also a burden in terms of the costs of running it with staff , maintenance etc.


Keith