THIS WORD "CONSULT"

Consulting guru, Peter Block, defines a consultant as "someone who has influence over an individual, group, or organization, but who has no direct authority to implement changes." He contrasts this with a surrogate manager who is a person who "acts on behalf of, or in place of, a manager." The key difference is that a consultant never makes decisions for the individual or group, whereas a surrogate manager does make decisions.

Now that is one of the definitions of a consultants role as shown in Wikipedia, now as I see it, Vincent Tan isn't someone who has no direct authority over the club, in fact as owner as such he has total control.

Owners, inform their staff and their customers of their decisions and that is what's happened, it's a shame it was leaked before the formal announcement, but all that did in my eyes was let us know sooner than planned and without his employees at the club having full chance to deal with it in the manner they intended, as soon as it was out there it was a case of damage limitation.

Vincent Tan wasn't hired as a specialist consultant to arrive at an informed decision to take back to those who control matters, he is the one that controls matters, if it fails, it will cost him, as I see it we can only gain from his risk/gamble/ decision call it what you will, if it totally falls apart, we will be no worse off in my eys than we were before he came into rescue us.

As for consult, if as some see it he should have negotiated with us through the Trust or what ever other group people have suggested, ask yourself how do you negotiate if you aren't even holding any cards, let alone any aces.

Consulting guru, Peter Block, defines a consultant as "someone who has influence over an individual, group, or organization, but who has no direct authority to implement changes." He contrasts this with a surrogate manager who is a person who "acts on behalf of, or in place of, a manager." The key difference is that a consultant never makes decisions for the individual or group, whereas a surrogate manager does make decisions.

Now that is one of the definitions of a consultants role as shown in Wikipedia, now as I see it, Vincent Tan isn't someone who has no direct authority over the club, in fact as owner as such he has total control.

Owners, inform their staff and their customers of their decisions and that is what's happened, it's a shame it was leaked before the formal announcement, but all that did in my eyes was let us know sooner than planned and without his employees at the club having full chance to deal with it in the manner they intended, as soon as it was out there it was a case of damage limitation.

Vincent Tan wasn't hired as a specialist consultant to arrive at an informed decision to take back to those who control matters, he is the one that controls matters, if it fails, it will cost him, as I see it we can only gain from his risk/gamble/ decision call it what you will, if it totally falls apart, we will be no worse off in my eys than we were before he came into rescue us.

As for consult, if as some see it he should have negotiated with us through the Trust or what ever other group people have suggested, ask yourself how do you negotiate if you aren't even holding any cards, let alone any aces.

very good point gwyn but still wont appease the anti vt brigade also what did they expect to achieve if they did meet him? suspect badge compromise and thats about all, as looking at tv deal he knows excactly what hes doing regarding colour!

Consulting guru, Peter Block, defines a consultant as "someone who has influence over an individual, group, or organization, but who has no direct authority to implement changes." He contrasts this with a surrogate manager who is a person who "acts on behalf of, or in place of, a manager." The key difference is that a consultant never makes decisions for the individual or group, whereas a surrogate manager does make decisions.

Now that is one of the definitions of a consultants role as shown in Wikipedia, now as I see it, Vincent Tan isn't someone who has no direct authority over the club, in fact as owner as such he has total control.

Owners, inform their staff and their customers of their decisions and that is what's happened, it's a shame it was leaked before the formal announcement, but all that did in my eyes was let us know sooner than planned and without his employees at the club having full chance to deal with it in the manner they intended, as soon as it was out there it was a case of damage limitation.

Vincent Tan wasn't hired as a specialist consultant to arrive at an informed decision to take back to those who control matters, he is the one that controls matters, if it fails, it will cost him, as I see it we can only gain from his risk/gamble/ decision call it what you will, if it totally falls apart, we will be no worse off in my eys than we were before he came into rescue us.

As for consult, if as some see it he should have negotiated with us through the Trust or what ever other group people have suggested, ask yourself how do you negotiate if you aren't even holding any cards, let alone any aces.

its his clubnow, his money and he can do what the f**k he likes tbh we either like it or lump it cause nothing we do will change his plan

Out of interest, what does the phrase "money laundering" mean to you?

Gwyn you are right. Anyone who owns a business can do what they want with it. Vincent Tan is not unique in this. IF (and the fact that he is a sucessful billionaire) his 'vision' bears fruit then Cardiff will be a force. The owners of Tesco make corporate decisions daily. If you don't like the changes or their company ethos than you have a right to shop elsewhere, but the truth of the matter is that there will always be MANY others who will take your place!! The memories/history that we have been priviliged to be part of will NEVER be erased from our memories. I consider myself a footballing dinosaur but we have to move on in life and accept change (sometimes reluctantly).If my company made changes to my contract I would have to accept or move on. LETS ALL wait and see where we end up. If we have a few more years of a Cardiff City rollercoaster ride (look at the last 5 or 6 for christ sake) and things go tits up, at least we will of been part of the adventure. GAMBLE and SUCCEED or GAMBLE and FAIL.........I think we should throw the dice and see what comes up

Gwyn you are right. Anyone who owns a business can do what they want with it. Vincent Tan is not unique in this. IF (and the fact that he is a sucessful billionaire) his 'vision' bears fruit then Cardiff will be a force. The owners of Tesco make corporate decisions daily. If you don't like the changes or their company ethos than you have a right to shop elsewhere, but the truth of the matter is that there will always be MANY others who will take your place!! The memories/history that we have been priviliged to be part of will NEVER be erased from our memories. I consider myself a footballing dinosaur but we have to move on in life and accept change (sometimes reluctantly).If my company made changes to my contract I would have to accept or move on. LETS ALL wait and see where we end up. If we have a few more years of a Cardiff City rollercoaster ride (look at the last 5 or 6 for christ sake) and things go tits up, at least we will of been part of the adventure. GAMBLE and SUCCEED or GAMBLE and FAIL.........I think we should throw the dice and see what comes up

SORRY TO INFORM YOU MATE BUT IT'S VERY SIMPLE! A FOOTBALL CLUB IS DIFFERENT END OF

Gwyn you are right. Anyone who owns a business can do what they want with it. Vincent Tan is not unique in this. IF (and the fact that he is a sucessful billionaire) his 'vision' bears fruit then Cardiff will be a force. The owners of Tesco make corporate decisions daily. If you don't like the changes or their company ethos than you have a right to shop elsewhere, but the truth of the matter is that there will always be MANY others who will take your place!! The memories/history that we have been priviliged to be part of will NEVER be erased from our memories. I consider myself a footballing dinosaur but we have to move on in life and accept change (sometimes reluctantly).If my company made changes to my contract I would have to accept or move on. LETS ALL wait and see where we end up. If we have a few more years of a Cardiff City rollercoaster ride (look at the last 5 or 6 for christ sake) and things go tits up, at least we will of been part of the adventure. GAMBLE and SUCCEED or GAMBLE and FAIL.........I think we should throw the dice and see what comes up

SORRY TO INFORM YOU MATE BUT IT'S VERY SIMPLE! A FOOTBALL CLUB IS DIFFERENT END OF

But you haven't informed me, you have simply made a claim without any facts or proof to back it up, please enlighten us

Gwyn you are right. Anyone who owns a business can do what they want with it. Vincent Tan is not unique in this. IF (and the fact that he is a sucessful billionaire) his 'vision' bears fruit then Cardiff will be a force. The owners of Tesco make corporate decisions daily. If you don't like the changes or their company ethos than you have a right to shop elsewhere, but the truth of the matter is that there will always be MANY others who will take your place!! The memories/history that we have been priviliged to be part of will NEVER be erased from our memories. I consider myself a footballing dinosaur but we have to move on in life and accept change (sometimes reluctantly).If my company made changes to my contract I would have to accept or move on. LETS ALL wait and see where we end up. If we have a few more years of a Cardiff City rollercoaster ride (look at the last 5 or 6 for christ sake) and things go tits up, at least we will of been part of the adventure. GAMBLE and SUCCEED or GAMBLE and FAIL.........I think we should throw the dice and see what comes up

SORRY TO INFORM YOU MATE BUT IT'S VERY SIMPLE! A FOOTBALL CLUB IS DIFFERENT END OF

But you haven't informed me, you have simply made a claim without any facts or proof to back it up, please enlighten us

When I first started watching the city supporting the club involved turning upon a Saturday afternoon or the evening for midweek games, paying your money at the gate and watching the team perform for 90 minutes. If you were lucky on the day the team performed and you went home happy although there was never universal happiness amongst the fans as there would always be fans talking about how good,or bad this player or that player was on the day.

I can never remember talk about club finances,owners and debts levels because those were areas that, to put it simply, fans didn't give a toss about. Having said that whenever we had to sell our better players to balance the books, Toshack being a good example, there was always an outcry varying from "I'll never go down the city again", "What's going on", "Why on earth did we have to sell him" etc.

Then as fans we ALL got over it and turned up on a Saturday afternoon or midweek evening paid our money at the gate and watched the team perform for 90 minutes. Normal order would be restored very quickly.

In this more modern era things have changed, and not for the better in my opinion, as we have entered a period where money rules the game to an extent that would be unimaginable to owners and fans say 50 years ago. From a fans perspective we now pay our ticket monies in advance and turn up on match day, at any time either TV or the police tell us we have to and watch the team perform. Hopefully they do and we all go home happy, although still today not universally happy as there are still fans who will be talking about how good or bad this or that player was on the day.

For me that is the very nature of supporting your football club, your age, sex, ethnic origin, religion or sexual orientation don't come into it. As fans our job is to turn up on match day and watch the team perform, yes have opinions about the performance, the result, the players, the manager, the atmosphere etc. But when did it become our job,as fans, to worry about profit and loss, the balance sheet and decisions made in the board room by owners.

Reading this board almost any day during the transfer window and you will see countless opinions about which player we should be signing, but in reality whatever players that are signed will happen without any consultation with fans. And in my opinion that is absolutely correct in exactly the same way as any decision to sell a player, we as fans may be disappointed when a Ramsey or Johnson are sold but it happens and as fans we just go back to turning upon match day.

Player purchase or sale, ticket prices, and any decision relating to the finances of the club are the responsibility of the owners who through their investment have an absolutle right to decide. Because of the complex and diverse nature of the fan base it really isn't credible to expect "Consultation" on ALL issues,including in my opinion rebranding.

As fans we should concentrate on paying our ticket monies, turning up on match day and watching the team. If as a fan you want access to business plans and have the power to affect business decisions then invest in the club,get a position on the board and argue your case in the board room.

In that respect football clubs are no different to other businesses, the owners manage and the customers (the fans) decide on the product.

I believe with or without consultation the dust will settle on this rebrand and the fans will do what they have always done,pay their monies and turn upon matchday and support the team.

Will we ever be universally happy. No.

Gwyn you are right. Anyone who owns a business can do what they want with it. Vincent Tan is not unique in this. IF (and the fact that he is a sucessful billionaire) his 'vision' bears fruit then Cardiff will be a force. The owners of Tesco make corporate decisions daily. If you don't like the changes or their company ethos than you have a right to shop elsewhere, but the truth of the matter is that there will always be MANY others who will take your place!! The memories/history that we have been priviliged to be part of will NEVER be erased from our memories. I consider myself a footballing dinosaur but we have to move on in life and accept change (sometimes reluctantly).If my company made changes to my contract I would have to accept or move on. LETS ALL wait and see where we end up. If we have a few more years of a Cardiff City rollercoaster ride (look at the last 5 or 6 for christ sake) and things go tits up, at least we will of been part of the adventure. GAMBLE and SUCCEED or GAMBLE and FAIL.........I think we should throw the dice and see what comes up

SORRY TO INFORM YOU MATE BUT IT'S VERY SIMPLE! A FOOTBALL CLUB IS DIFFERENT END OF

But you haven't informed me, you have simply made a claim without any facts or proof to back it up, please enlighten us

When I first started watching the city supporting the club involved turning upon a Saturday afternoon or the evening for midweek games, paying your money at the gate and watching the team perform for 90 minutes. If you were lucky on the day the team performed and you went home happy although there was never universal happiness amongst the fans as there would always be fans talking about how good,or bad this player or that player was on the day.

I can never remember talk about club finances,owners and debts levels because those were areas that, to put it simply, fans didn't give a toss about. Having said that whenever we had to sell our better players to balance the books, Toshack being a good example, there was always an outcry varying from "I'll never go down the city again", "What's going on", "Why on earth did we have to sell him" etc.

Then as fans we ALL got over it and turned up on a Saturday afternoon or midweek evening paid our money at the gate and watched the team perform for 90 minutes. Normal order would be restored very quickly.

In this more modern era things have changed, and not for the better in my opinion, as we have entered a period where money rules the game to an extent that would be unimaginable to owners and fans say 50 years ago. From a fans perspective we now pay our ticket monies in advance and turn up on match day, at any time either TV or the police tell us we have to and watch the team perform. Hopefully they do and we all go home happy, although still today not universally happy as there are still fans who will be talking about how good or bad this or that player was on the day.

For me that is the very nature of supporting your football club, your age, sex, ethnic origin, religion or sexual orientation don't come into it. As fans our job is to turn up on match day and watch the team perform, yes have opinions about the performance, the result, the players, the manager, the atmosphere etc. But when did it become our job,as fans, to worry about profit and loss, the balance sheet and decisions made in the board room by owners.

Reading this board almost any day during the transfer window and you will see countless opinions about which player we should be signing, but in reality whatever players that are signed will happen without any consultation with fans. And in my opinion that is absolutely correct in exactly the same way as any decision to sell a player, we as fans may be disappointed when a Ramsey or Johnson are sold but it happens and as fans we just go back to turning upon match day.

Player purchase or sale, ticket prices, and any decision relating to the finances of the club are the responsibility of the owners who through their investment have an absolutle right to decide. Because of the complex and diverse nature of the fan base it really isn't credible to expect "Consultation" on ALL issues,including in my opinion rebranding.

As fans we should concentrate on paying our ticket monies, turning up on match day and watching the team. If as a fan you want access to business plans and have the power to affect business decisions then invest in the club,get a position on the board and argue your case in the board room.

In that respect football clubs are no different to other businesses, the owners manage and the customers (the fans) decide on the product.

I believe with or without consultation the dust will settle on this rebrand and the fans will do what they have always done,pay their monies and turn upon matchday and support the team.

Will we ever be universally happy. No.

A very sensible, well thought out and balanced post Castleblue. As I and i believe Gwyn are trying to say the club IS run as a business. We are customers and if we are not happy we have a choice to make. Ihope the BUSINESS man who owns our club makes it a successful business so that we not only survive but also so this allows us to progress. TIME WILL TELL.