YOU ALL SHOULD READ THIS BY ANDY1927

Overthemoon you asked why I haven't come up with an alternative business plan and I keep saying?

Saying what Overthemoon?
I have said nothing,I have made no statements or suggested alternative ideas,I confess to having no answers,I only asked and still ask questions as to why CCFC needs to rebrand yet no other club in debt (which is all of them) needs to????,those on the red side keep avoiding this question like politicians and acting like they know the financial ins and outs of the club but can't answer a simple question because nobody actually has the answer....

mmmmm what as changed then put aside colour shirt? still cardiff city still same people watching in majority! what has changed is ground like all other grounds in football they have all lost there intamacy! so it s not about shirt as garaunteed we will all be shouting ect ect when we score why because its cardiff city we support! and dont understand the colour stuff as we dont play in blue all the time, bet you all still shout when we score wearing black/white! but hey we all see things from different prospectives! i am in my 42nd year of watching city and dont care about shirt as its ccfc i shout for and ccfc i discuss with fellow supporters, never discuss why wearing black/ white ect well not until now but having said all this understand feelings of others and its up to them how they respond to situation, for every arguement for! theres one against!
simples!!!!!

Overthemoon you asked why I haven't come up with an alternative business plan and I keep saying?

Saying what Overthemoon?
I have said nothing,I have made no statements or suggested alternative ideas,I confess to having no answers,I only asked and still ask questions as to why CCFC needs to rebrand yet no other club in debt (which is all of them) needs to????,those on the red side keep avoiding this question like politicians and acting like they know the financial ins and outs of the club but can't answer a simple question because nobody actually has the answer....

simple anser to you we dont need to rebrand well thats what we the supporters believe! but we dont pay the bills so unless vt tells us why he wants the rebrand we dont have any idea for his reasons do we? so why keep saying dont need rebrand ffs
vt thinks we do and that should be sufficiant but guess like a lot on here they dont think vt has any idea how to make money and to get city out of the mess we are in?? but do the supporters have ansers??? dont think so do you????

I have said nothing, I have made no statements or suggested alternative ideas, I confess to having no answers, I only asked and still ask questions as to why CCFC needs to rebrand yet no other club in debt (which is all of them) needs to????, those on the red side keep avoiding this question like politicians and acting like they know the financial ins and outs of the club but can't answer a simple question because nobody actually has the answer....

VT has the answer Dazz and I'm sure TG has as well, but like I've said before, what businessman in his right mind, discloses his full business plan publically?

Like I said in my earlier post, there's nothing stopping some of the people in your keep Cardiff blue campaign, from joining the group, that Carl mentioned were going to be invited to discuss future decisions with the club, which would also be able to lobby for the change back to blue, which certainly isn't going to change for the forthcoming season!

This would be a far better way of expending your group's energy IMO, as at least it would be seen to be supporting our club and not just a one sided agenda!

I have said nothing, I have made no statements or suggested alternative ideas, I confess to having no answers, I only asked and still ask questions as to why CCFC needs to rebrand yet no other club in debt (which is all of them) needs to????, those on the red side keep avoiding this question like politicians and acting like they know the financial ins and outs of the club but can't answer a simple question because nobody actually has the answer....

VT has the answer Dazz and I'm sure TG has as well, but like I've said before, what businessman in his right mind, discloses his full business plan publically?

Like I said in my earlier post, there's nothing stopping some of the people in your keep Cardiff blue campaign, from joining the group, that Carl mentioned were going to be invited to discuss future decisions with the club, which would also be able to lobby for the change back to blue, which certainly isn't going to change for the forthcoming season!

This would be a far better way of expending your group's energy IMO, as at least it would be seen to be supporting our club and not just a one sided agenda!

I agree with that but you understand we just want some answers and we will keep asking them until we get them,such radical changes should be outlined from the very start,there are unanswered questions and that will always cause debate because we care.

Overthemoon you asked why I haven't come up with an alternative business plan and I keep saying?

Saying what Overthemoon?
I have said nothing,I have made no statements or suggested alternative ideas,I confess to having no answers,I only asked and still ask questions as to why CCFC needs to rebrand yet no other club in debt (which is all of them) needs to????,those on the red side keep avoiding this question like politicians and acting like they know the financial ins and outs of the club but can't answer a simple question because nobody actually has the answer....

simple anser to you we dont need to rebrand well thats what we the supporters believe! but we dont pay the bills so unless vt tells us why he wants the rebrand we dont have any idea for his reasons do we? so why keep saying dont need rebrand ffs
vt thinks we do and that should be sufficiant but guess like a lot on here they dont think vt has any idea how to make money and to get city out of the mess we are in?? but do the supporters have ansers??? dont think so do you????

We will keep asking the question until we get an answers and I quote you......."but do the supporters have ansers??? dont think so do you????"

Do you actually read the posts??????

I have said nothing, I have made no statements or suggested alternative ideas, I confess to having no answers, I only asked and still ask questions as to why CCFC needs to rebrand yet no other club in debt (which is all of them) needs to????, those on the red side keep avoiding this question like politicians and acting like they know the financial ins and outs of the club but can't answer a simple question because nobody actually has the answer....

VT has the answer Dazz and I'm sure TG has as well, but like I've said before, what businessman in his right mind, discloses his full business plan publically?

Like I said in my earlier post, there's nothing stopping some of the people in your keep Cardiff blue campaign, from joining the group, that Carl mentioned were going to be invited to discuss future decisions with the club, which would also be able to lobby for the change back to blue, which certainly isn't going to change for the forthcoming season!

This would be a far better way of expending your group's energy IMO, as at least it would be seen to be supporting our club and not just a one sided agenda!

I agree with that but you understand we just want some answers and we will keep asking them until we get them, such radical changes should be outlined from the very start, there are unanswered questions and that will always cause debate because we care.

We all care Dazz, but there's asking questions that we have a right to know the answer to and then there's asking questions, where we possibly shouldn't have any right to know the answer to!

I think at this moment in time, that it's the latter, but I think your group would be better served trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club!

Thats all very well, and I share a similar view. But, I also open my mind to the fact that I support the team along with thousands of others with a main aim of seeing them improve, watching them grow and helping them to become a part of something bigger in the future.

The club needs to progress and change to benefit from the global economy and the financial market. We are unfortunately not in a position to sit back and relax reminiscing of times when a Pint in your hand on a Saturday afternoon would make everything all right. Yes football is more than just a team and a sport, it is a way of life and a social event, But in times of economic struggle we have to compromise, sometimes with great costs, sometimes with temporary changes and sometimes with permanent ones.

This could be the start or end of a great era for the club which ever way you look at it.

But as we always say: "I'll be there, I'll be there, with my little pick and shovel, I'll be there!"

Exactly my point,we had good times before without changing.as you stated the economic struggle exists for all clubs and business but I don't see any other clubs panicking and ditching their heritage to be able to move forward so why us?

I guess you'd have to ask some of the fans who's club are in dire straits but with no way out.I'd like to think that at last I can follow a club that match the aspirations I've always had for Cardiff City.

I have said nothing, I have made no statements or suggested alternative ideas, I confess to having no answers, I only asked and still ask questions as to why CCFC needs to rebrand yet no other club in debt (which is all of them) needs to????, those on the red side keep avoiding this question like politicians and acting like they know the financial ins and outs of the club but can't answer a simple question because nobody actually has the answer....

VT has the answer Dazz and I'm sure TG has as well, but like I've said before, what businessman in his right mind, discloses his full business plan publically?

Like I said in my earlier post, there's nothing stopping some of the people in your keep Cardiff blue campaign, from joining the group, that Carl mentioned were going to be invited to discuss future decisions with the club, which would also be able to lobby for the change back to blue, which certainly isn't going to change for the forthcoming season!

This would be a far better way of expending your group's energy IMO, as at least it would be seen to be supporting our club and not just a one sided agenda!

I agree with that but you understand we just want some answers and we will keep asking them until we get them, such radical changes should be outlined from the very start, there are unanswered questions and that will always cause debate because we care.

We all care Dazz, but there's asking questions that we have a right to know the answer to and then there's asking questions, where we possibly shouldn't have any right to know the answer to!

I think at this moment in time, that it's the latter, but I think your group would be better served trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club!

It's not my group it's a group of people I joined with an opinion of which we are all entitled to as paying fans,the day we all stop asking questions is the day we are all doomed.Taking away someones right to ask questions is actually old fashioned and dated in the western world and it is those who frown on people who ask questions who should come up to date.We are not against the club at all,in fact the total opposite mate and very much a part of this club just won't be dictated to.Being told Don't ask questions sounds a little communist if you ask me don't you agree?

I have said nothing, I have made no statements or suggested alternative ideas, I confess to having no answers, I only asked and still ask questions as to why CCFC needs to rebrand yet no other club in debt (which is all of them) needs to????, those on the red side keep avoiding this question like politicians and acting like they know the financial ins and outs of the club but can't answer a simple question because nobody actually has the answer....

VT has the answer Dazz and I'm sure TG has as well, but like I've said before, what businessman in his right mind, discloses his full business plan publically?

Like I said in my earlier post, there's nothing stopping some of the people in your keep Cardiff blue campaign, from joining the group, that Carl mentioned were going to be invited to discuss future decisions with the club, which would also be able to lobby for the change back to blue, which certainly isn't going to change for the forthcoming season!

This would be a far better way of expending your group's energy IMO, as at least it would be seen to be supporting our club and not just a one sided agenda!

I agree with that but you understand we just want some answers and we will keep asking them until we get them, such radical changes should be outlined from the very start, there are unanswered questions and that will always cause debate because we care.

We all care Dazz, but there's asking questions that we have a right to know the answer to and then there's asking questions, where we possibly shouldn't have any right to know the answer to!

I think at this moment in time, that it's the latter, but I think your group would be better served trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club!

It's not my group it's a group of people I joined with an opinion of which we are all entitled to as paying fans,the day we all stop asking questions is the day we are all doomed.Taking away someones right to ask questions is actually old fashioned and dated in the western world and it is those who frown on people who ask questions who should come up to date.We are not against the club at all,in fact the total opposite mate and very much a part of this club just won't be dictated to.Being told Don't ask questions sounds a little communist if you ask me don't you agree?

Where did I say that you shouldn't ask questions?

Where did I say that you weren't within your right to do so?

Where did I say that you were against the club?

Overthemoon you asked why I haven't come up with an alternative business plan and I keep saying?

Saying what Overthemoon?
I have said nothing,I have made no statements or suggested alternative ideas,I confess to having no answers,I only asked and still ask questions as to why CCFC needs to rebrand yet no other club in debt (which is all of them) needs to????,those on the red side keep avoiding this question like politicians and acting like they know the financial ins and outs of the club but can't answer a simple question because nobody actually has the answer....

simple anser to you we dont need to rebrand well thats what we the supporters believe! but we dont pay the bills so unless vt tells us why he wants the rebrand we dont have any idea for his reasons do we? so why keep saying dont need rebrand ffs
vt thinks we do and that should be sufficiant but guess like a lot on here they dont think vt has any idea how to make money and to get city out of the mess we are in?? but do the supporters have ansers??? dont think so do you????

We will keep asking the question until we get an answers and I quote you......."but do the supporters have ansers??? dont think so do you????"

Do you actually read the posts??????

yes or wouldnt reply?? as i said fans dont think we need to rebrand but vt thinks we do? so who are we to say hes wrong when hes putting in x amount of millions to keep club going!! are we right about the need for rebranding or is vt right?? anser that or is it irrelavant to topic!

I have said nothing, I have made no statements or suggested alternative ideas, I confess to having no answers, I only asked and still ask questions as to why CCFC needs to rebrand yet no other club in debt (which is all of them) needs to????, those on the red side keep avoiding this question like politicians and acting like they know the financial ins and outs of the club but can't answer a simple question because nobody actually has the answer....

VT has the answer Dazz and I'm sure TG has as well, but like I've said before, what businessman in his right mind, discloses his full business plan publically?

Like I said in my earlier post, there's nothing stopping some of the people in your keep Cardiff blue campaign, from joining the group, that Carl mentioned were going to be invited to discuss future decisions with the club, which would also be able to lobby for the change back to blue, which certainly isn't going to change for the forthcoming season!

This would be a far better way of expending your group's energy IMO, as at least it would be seen to be supporting our club and not just a one sided agenda!

I agree with that but you understand we just want some answers and we will keep asking them until we get them, such radical changes should be outlined from the very start, there are unanswered questions and that will always cause debate because we care.

We all care Dazz, but there's asking questions that we have a right to know the answer to and then there's asking questions, where we possibly shouldn't have any right to know the answer to!

I think at this moment in time, that it's the latter, but I think your group would be better served trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club!

It's not my group it's a group of people I joined with an opinion of which we are all entitled to as paying fans,the day we all stop asking questions is the day we are all doomed.Taking away someones right to ask questions is actually old fashioned and dated in the western world and it is those who frown on people who ask questions who should come up to date.We are not against the club at all,in fact the total opposite mate and very much a part of this club just won't be dictated to.Being told Don't ask questions sounds a little communist if you ask me don't you agree?

Where did I say that you shouldn't ask questions?
We all care Dazz, but there's asking questions that we have a right to know the answer to and then there's asking questions, where we possibly shouldn't have any right to know the answer to!I think at this moment in time, that it's the latter - your words

Where did I say that you weren't within your right to do so? as above

Where did I say that you were against the club?

- I think your group would be better served trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club!

We all care Dazz, but there's asking questions that we have a right to know the answer to and then there's asking questions, where we possibly shouldn't have any right to know the answer to! I think at this moment in time, that it's the latter - your words

Where did I say that you weren't within your right to do so? as above

Where did I say that you were against the club?

- I think your group would be better served trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club![/quote]

Sorry Dazz, but you're not making sense now!

In response to the answer you gave to my first question, I said, "we possibly shouldn't have any right to know the answer to!"

This is not saying that anybody doesn't have the right to ask questions!

In response to my second question and your answer, There's nothing in my post where I've said that you or anybody else for that matter, does not have a right to ask questions!

In response to my third question and your response, my post doesn't mention anywhere that you are against the club, it merely says that I feel you'd be better off trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club! To clarify, this point, I haven't said and I'm not saying that you or the keep Cardiff blue campaign is against the club, but merely that you may be seen to be against the club in many quarters!

We all care Dazz, but there's asking questions that we have a right to know the answer to and then there's asking questions, where we possibly shouldn't have any right to know the answer to! I think at this moment in time, that it's the latter - your words

Where did I say that you weren't within your right to do so? as above

Where did I say that you were against the club?

- I think your group would be better served trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club!

Sorry Dazz, but you're not making sense now!

In response to the answer you gave to my first question, I said, "we possibly shouldn't have any right to know the answer to!"

This is not saying that anybody doesn't have the right to ask questions!

In response to my second question and your answer, There's nothing in my post where I've said that you or anybody else for that matter, does not have a right to ask questions!

In response to my third question and your response, my post doesn't mention anywhere that you are against the club, it merely says that I feel you'd be better off trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club! To clarify, this point, I haven't said and I'm not saying that you or the keep Cardiff blue campaign is against the club, but merely that you may be seen to be against the club in many quarters![/quote]

With respect mate it's all there in black and white,they are your words,I think you have confused yourself,regardless this argument is getting us nowhere.........time for lunch I reckon

We all care Dazz, but there's asking questions that we have a right to know the answer to and then there's asking questions, where we possibly shouldn't have any right to know the answer to! I think at this moment in time, that it's the latter - your words

Where did I say that you weren't within your right to do so? as above

Where did I say that you were against the club?

- I think your group would be better served trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club!

Sorry Dazz, but you're not making sense now!

In response to the answer you gave to my first question, I said, "we possibly shouldn't have any right to know the answer to!"

This is not saying that anybody doesn't have the right to ask questions!

In response to my second question and your answer, There's nothing in my post where I've said that you or anybody else for that matter, does not have a right to ask questions!

In response to my third question and your response, my post doesn't mention anywhere that you are against the club, it merely says that I feel you'd be better off trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club! To clarify, this point, I haven't said and I'm not saying that you or the keep Cardiff blue campaign is against the club, but merely that you may be seen to be against the club in many quarters!

With respect mate it's all there in black and white,they are your words,I think you have confused yourself,regardless this argument is getting us nowhere.........time for lunch I reckon [/quote]

Sorry Dazz, but it's you who's confused!

You're worse than my wife for twisting statements!

Here's what I posted:-

We all care Dazz, but there's asking questions that we have a right to know the answer to and then there's asking questions, where we possibly shouldn't have any right to know the answer to!

I think at this moment in time, that it's the latter, but I think your group would be better served trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club!

The first paragraph is stating that we have a right to know certain answers to questions and we possibly don't have a right to know certain other answers to other questions. This isn't saying that questions can't be asked, or people don't have a right to ask questions, just that we may not have a right to know the answer, especially with regard to VT's business plan!

To repeat myself, my post doesn't mention anywhere that you are against the club, it merely says that I feel you'd be better off trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club! To clarify, this point, I haven't said and I'm not saying that you or the keep Cardiff blue campaign is against the club, but merely that you may be seen to be against the club in many quarters!

Now where in that statement have I said that people shouldn't or can't ask questions, or that people don't have a right to ask questions, or that you and or the keep Cardiff blue group, or are against the club, or are you still confused?

overthemoon posted:-

We all care Dazz, but there's asking questions that we have a right to know the answer to and then there's asking questions, where we possibly [b]shouldn't have any right to know the answer to![/b]

YOU STATE - WE POSSIBLY SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY RIGHT TO KNOW THE ANSWER
(Saying "possibly" doesn't change your statement)I think at this moment in time, that it's the latter
.......................................................................................................
We as a western society SHOULD always have the right to ask questions especially something as radical as this
.......................................................................................................
but I think your group would be better served trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club! - Who is saying this? - I say you

The first paragraph is stating that we have a right to know certain answers to questions and we possibly don't have a right to know certain other answers to other questions. This isn't saying that questions can't be asked, or people don't have a right to ask questions, just that we may not have a right to know the answer, especially with regard to VT's business plan!

To repeat myself, my post doesn't mention anywhere that you are against the club, it merely says that I feel you'd be better off trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club! To clarify, this point, I haven't said and I'm not saying that you or the keep Cardiff blue campaign is against the club, but merely that you may be seen to be against the club in many quarters!

can you make this up or not lol a horse called red not blue just won the 4.20 race at hereford sign of the times or not be gentle with ur answers please

overthemoon posted:-

We all care Dazz, but there's asking questions that we have a right to know the answer to and then there's asking questions, where we possibly [b]shouldn't have any right to know the answer to![/b]

YOU STATE - WE POSSIBLY SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY RIGHT TO KNOW THE ANSWER
(Saying "possibly" doesn't change your statement)I think at this moment in time, that it's the latter
.......................................................................................................
We as a western society SHOULD always have the right to ask questions especially something as radical as this
.......................................................................................................
but I think your group would be better served trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club! - Who is saying this? - I say you

The first paragraph is stating that we have a right to know certain answers to questions and we possibly don't have a right to know certain other answers to other questions. This isn't saying that questions can't be asked, or people don't have a right to ask questions, just that we may not have a right to know the answer, especially with regard to VT's business plan!

To repeat myself, my post doesn't mention anywhere that you are against the club, it merely says that I feel you'd be better off trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club! To clarify, this point, I haven't said and I'm not saying that you or the keep Cardiff blue campaign is against the club, but merely that you may be seen to be against the club in many quarters!

You're interpreting things that aren't there again Dazz!

Neither of the parts of my quotes you've highlighted in red say that you can't answer questions, or that you don't have the right to ank questions!

The first part merely states that we possibly shouldn't know the answer to it, as I believe that VT has a right to decide what he does and what he doesn't tell us, not that questions couldn't or shouldn't be asked!

I can't see how you can say that saying possibly in my statement doesn't change my statement, when it clearly would change my statement! I'm clearly stating possibly, because I don't know the reasons behind the rebranding of our club, the same as you don't! If I knew the reasons for the decision to rebrand us, then I'd be able to give a more informed opinion and say whether VT was right not to divulge his business plan or not!


The second part you've highlighted in red, DOESN'T say that you or your group are against the club, it merely states that in my opinion, you'd be better served trying to get some of your members into the group that Carl said the club was going to welcome aboard, rather than being seen in some quarters, to be against the club! I haven't said that either you or your group are against the club!

To clarify my position and statement, I think we've all got a right to ask questions, but I don't believe that we necessarily have a right to get all the answers, because I feel that this could be damaging to the club!

overthemoon posted:-

We all care Dazz, but there's asking questions that we have a right to know the answer to and then there's asking questions, where we possibly [b]shouldn't have any right to know the answer to![/b]

YOU STATE - WE POSSIBLY SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY RIGHT TO KNOW THE ANSWER
(Saying "possibly" doesn't change your statement)I think at this moment in time, that it's the latter
.......................................................................................................
We as a western society SHOULD always have the right to ask questions especially something as radical as this
.......................................................................................................
but I think your group would be better served trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club! - Who is saying this? - I say you

The first paragraph is stating that we have a right to know certain answers to questions and we possibly don't have a right to know certain other answers to other questions. This isn't saying that questions can't be asked, or people don't have a right to ask questions, just that we may not have a right to know the answer, especially with regard to VT's business plan!

To repeat myself, my post doesn't mention anywhere that you are against the club, it merely says that I feel you'd be better off trying to be part of a group within the club, rather than one seen in many quarters, to be against the club! To clarify, this point, I haven't said and I'm not saying that you or the keep Cardiff blue campaign is against the club, but merely that you may be seen to be against the club in many quarters!

You're interpreting things that aren't there again Dazz!

Neither of the parts of my quotes you've highlighted in red say that you can't answer questions, or that you don't have the right to ank questions!

The first part merely states that we possibly shouldn't know the answer to it, as I believe that VT has a right to decide what he does and what he doesn't tell us, not that questions couldn't or shouldn't be asked!

I can't see how you can say that saying possibly in my statement doesn't change my statement, when it clearly would change my statement! I'm clearly stating possibly, because I don't know the reasons behind the rebranding of our club, the same as you don't! If I knew the reasons for the decision to rebrand us, then I'd be able to give a more informed opinion and say whether VT was right not to divulge his business plan or not!


The second part you've highlighted in red, DOESN'T say that you or your group are against the club, it merely states that in my opinion, you'd be better served trying to get some of your members into the group that Carl said the club was going to welcome aboard, rather than being seen in some quarters, to be against the club! I haven't said that either you or your group are against the club!

To clarify my position and statement, I think we've all got a right to ask questions, but I don't believe that we necessarily have a right to get all the answers, because I feel that this could be damaging to the club!

I have said nothing, I have made no statements or suggested alternative ideas, I confess to having no answers, I only asked and still ask questions as to why CCFC needs to rebrand yet no other club in debt (which is all of them) needs to????, those on the red side keep avoiding this question like politicians and acting like they know the financial ins and outs of the club but can't answer a simple question because nobody actually has the answer....

VT has the answer Dazz and I'm sure TG has as well, but like I've said before, what businessman in his right mind, discloses his full business plan publically?

Like I said in my earlier post, there's nothing stopping some of the people in your keep Cardiff blue campaign, from joining the group, that Carl mentioned were going to be invited to discuss future decisions with the club, which would also be able to lobby for the change back to blue, which certainly isn't going to change for the forthcoming season!

This would be a far better way of expending your group's energy IMO, as at least it would be seen to be supporting our club and not just a one sided agenda!

Good post.

We can go on all day like this mate so we have to agree to disagree on some things.I believe when questions are not answered something is being hidden,I can also tell you the group's intentions are for the good of the club and those of us who were at the initial meeting agreed we want it to be peaceful and diplomatic.Our aim is to get the club to revert to our original colours while keeping the investment if it exists.I will say one more thing on the matter that I have never said and I will stand by it,I personally believe by lying down and allowing the Malaysians to do what they want will come back and haunt us because of the way they have gone about their business,the u turn they made without consultation as set a precedent.IMO The decision to go red will only put this club in peril,Going red is not going to increase the S.Wales fan base but there are many fans out there who will go with the change but refuse to buy anything red which will automatically see a drop in sales.The Asian market is a minefield and we will never compete with the big guns and a return on merchandise if any will take years.We are all locked in our own opinions on this and no matter how much we try the divide is there which to me is detrimental to the club.Yes we may have some success(but I doubt it) but success in red is not why I have watched my beloved Bluebirds since a boy and when they run out for the first time as the Red Dragons and a Man Utd kit it will be the day this great club died and you or anyone else on this planet can't change how I feel ..........I'll say one thing...total respect to you for healthy debate without abuse which gets us nowhere.I will always respect your posts

Dazz, the best way to get a bigger fan base is to just get to the Premier League and be in the Top 6/8 for the next 10 years, all this stripping of our identity to make us look like a Malaysian/Chinese club is honestly a Disgrace to my club and I promise u this if we dont go up, our fan base will have actually decreased in my opinion, Foreigners are only interested in Premier League Clubs(well 99% of them). While we are a Championship club the only fans interested in us are the South Wales based ones.

Dazz, the best way to get a bigger fan base is to just get to the Premier League and be in the Top 6/8 for the next 10 years, all this stripping of our identity to make us look like a Malaysian/Chinese club is honestly a Disgrace to my club and I promise u this if we dont go up, our fan base will have actually decreased in my opinion, Foreigners are only interested in Premier League Clubs(well 99% of them). While we are a Championship club the only fans interested in us are the South Wales based ones.

My thoughts exactly Annis

:ayatollah: Andy1927 posted this in another thread and for me it sums up what Cardiff City should really mean

keepcardiffblue@mail.com
keepcardiffblue@mail.com

Football has, for me anyway, never been about purely seeking that golden light at the end of the tunnel, watching the City was never about success, it was about spending a Saturday afternoon, or Tuesday evening, with like minded people who had found something they could unite behind, something they had a combined passion for.

Stood on the Bob Bank, watching the 'shite 3rd division' football, as you put it, was about more than just what was going on on the pitch, it was about feeling like I belonged to something special, especially in the rugby mad South Wales valleys of the 70's and 80's, and with that sense of belonging came an identity, a BLUE identity, and an emblem we could call our own... the BLUEBIRD.... If I'd have wanted to follow something purely for success and glory then I'd have continued to support Man Utd, as I had done as a small child, but once my father introduced me to the Bluebirds that was never going to happen as I finally felt a part of something special, something Blue....

So if all it means to you is purely following a 'cosmopolitan' club in the dizzy heights of the Premiership, then may I suggest you travel a few miles down the M4 as apparently they already have a team purpose made for your requirements, and if they are not to your taste as they play in the wrong colour, then I believe there are a bevy of teams in the north west who play in red that may also be able to fill your needs..... but I'm sorry, football is far more than just glory hunting for me... it is about belonging and camaraderie, with a shared identity that stood proud and true long before I was even born, and will hopefully stand long after I'm gone, so all I can say is KEEP CARDIFF BLUE!!!!!!!

I have to disagree this is not a very good post at all. Firstly NO-ONE wants Cardiff City to play in Red and the sarcastic remark about 'going to the north-west to fill your needs' is totally off the mark.

I also find it amazing anyone would claim that following their team was never about 'success'. Yes we all love the Saturday afternoon get togethers but we also want to win, no-one attends games hoping to lose.

What has happened is that the majority of pragmatic fans have reluctantly accepted a rebranding in exchange for heavy investment which can take the club to the next level and safeguard its future.

We all understand the 'identity' argument and we will be working quietly in the background for a change back; eventually.

But for me much more 'identity' is lost if we went into admin or liquidation, as a new company (with a new foundation date) would emerge (i.e. Swansea City/Rangers). The argument that we could play brinkmanship with a ruthless billionaire is totally ridiculous and any resistance to change would have seen this club's future put at risk and that is something I am not prepared to do.

For me the clever strategy is to welcome the rebranding but with a brief to lobby for the return of the Blue once VT’s grand plan is completed i.e. have our cake and eat it.

To dull thing to do is to take on a billionaire, put the club in danger and slag your own fans off.

Well said - I thought it was a load of sentimental twaddle.