4 JACKS BANNED TODAY, STINKS

Four Jack fans banned today from all grounds in the UK for three years, no charges, no crime, no conviction, just banned.
This is just the start of things, the police are now asking for banning orders without any arrest or incident, if they think your dodgy then they can put in for a ban.

They may as well star giving out speeding fines and points even if you aren't using your car, because they think you may speed in the future, because you look like the type that would and fit into the category of possible speedrs,

Only in f*cking football, treated worse than terrorists.

Are they really quite as innocent in this case as you make out though Gwyn?

According to the report of the court hearing , these guys pleaded guilty to having been involved in no less than 5 seperate football related violence incidents. They may not have been arrested for them , but it certainly seems clear that they were involved , not just some innocent passive bystanders in an isolated case.

Four Jack fans banned today from all grounds in the UK for three years, no charges, no crime, no conviction, just banned.
This is just the start of things, the police are now asking for banning orders without any arrest or incident, if they think your dodgy then they can put in for a ban.

They may as well star giving out speeding fines and points even if you aren't using your car, because they think you may speed in the future, because you look like the type that would and fit into the category of possible speedrs,

Only in f*cking football, treated worse than terrorists.

Are they really quite as innocent in this case as you make out though Gwyn?

According to the report of the court hearing , these guys pleaded guilty to having been involved in no less than 5 seperate football related violence incidents. They may not have been arrested for them , but it certainly seems clear that they were involved , not just some innocent passive bystanders in an isolated case.

Now this is what alarms me, and this from a fellow football fan and a board member of our supporters Trust, a group that represents fellow football fans. this is a comment we hear from non football fans who will think, the police are always right and they wouldn't mis use their powers, and these lads must be guilty , even if they have never been convicted in a court of law.

I have been involved in dozens if not hundreds of such incidents, last game away in QPR came out of their ground with my wife, walking in the direction the police wanted us to, my wife dodges a bottle thrown by a QPR fan who have been allowed to congregate opposite the exiting Cardiff fans, a scuffle breaks out police charge in, I witness this but take no part in scuffle, yet under these guidelines,I personally committed no crime, but I was in their eyes part of the incident, I could quote a hundred such incidents.

If these lads have committed a crime, then try them in a court, judge them and if found guilty, then punish them, are you that naive to think if you give the police these powers that they wont use them to suit themselves, what about that case last season with Stoke fans in Man U, they stopped them in a bar restaurant, and made them go home, they hadn't done anything wrong, but the police were given powers to allow them to do this, if they thought they may cause trouble.

These fans took it to court and had hundreds of thousands paid out to them in damages, if these fans hadn't been organised and hadn't taken them on and got justice, the police would be using that power wherever and whenever they felt like.


If they commit a crime then take them to a proper court and try them, isn't that what the whole British Justice system is based on , innocent until proven guilty, it would appear football fans are guilty regardless, they don't even need to be judged or given a trial.

Odd that a supposedly appointed fans group board member should take this view and support the action, perhaps that is why the Trust at Cardiff City is not supported by the masses that support the club.

Four Jack fans banned today from all grounds in the UK for three years, no charges, no crime, no conviction, just banned.
This is just the start of things, the police are now asking for banning orders without any arrest or incident, if they think your dodgy then they can put in for a ban.

They may as well star giving out speeding fines and points even if you aren't using your car, because they think you may speed in the future, because you look like the type that would and fit into the category of possible speedrs,

Only in f*cking football, treated worse than terrorists.

Are they really quite as innocent in this case as you make out though Gwyn?

According to the report of the court hearing , these guys pleaded guilty to having been involved in no less than 5 seperate football related violence incidents. They may not have been arrested for them , but it certainly seems clear that they were involved , not just some innocent passive bystanders in an isolated case.

Now this is what alarms me, and this from a fellow football fan and a board member of our supporters Trust, a group that represents fellow football fans. this is a comment we hear from non football fans who will think, the police are always right and they wouldn't mis use their powers, and these lads must be guilty , even if they have never been convicted in a court of law.

I have been involved in dozens if not hundreds of such incidents, last game away in QPR came out of their ground with my wife, walking in the direction the police wanted us to, my wife dodges a bottle thrown by a QPR fan who have been allowed to congregate opposite the exiting Cardiff fans, a scuffle breaks out police charge in, I witness this but take no part in scuffle, yet under these guidelines,I personally committed no crime, but I was in their eyes part of the incident, I could quote a hundred such incidents.

If these lads have committed a crime, then try them in a court, judge them and if found guilty, then punish them, are you that naive to think if you give the police these powers that they wont use them to suit themselves, what about that case last season with Stoke fans in Man U, they stopped them in a bar restaurant, and made them go home, they hadn't done anything wrong, but the police were given powers to allow them to do this, if they thought they may cause trouble.

These fans took it to court and had hundreds of thousands paid out to them in damages, if these fans hadn't been organised and hadn't taken them on and got justice, the police would be using that power wherever and whenever they felt like.


If they commit a crime then take them to a proper court and try them, isn't that what the whole British Justice system is based on , innocent until proven guilty, it would appear football fans are guilty regardless, they don't even need to be judged or given a trial.

Odd that a supposedly appointed fans group board member should take this view and support the action, perhaps that is why the Trust at Cardiff City is not supported by the masses that support the club.

Gwyn

You have yet again taken something out of context and are trying to misinterpret a response to a post you made because the answer isn`t the one you were looking for.

I have not supported the action of banning these supporters , I just asked whether they were quite as innocent as you made out in your original post as you failed to mention that the 4 concerned had pleaded GUILTY in the court hearing that imposed the order to having been involved in football related violent incidents on no less than 5 occasions.

If they had been innocently caught up in an unfortunate incident like the one you describe your wife was , or the Stoke incident you refer to that would be an entirely different matter , but that hardly seems to be the case with the Swansea fans does it?

You also twist the response around to have a go at the Trust again (no surprise there then!). Firstly , you say I am a "supposedly appointed" fans group board member. Unlike a lot of other groups , I wasn`t aware there was a "supposedly" about it - I was elected and can be unelected every time I stand for re-election every two years if that`s what the members want . Why are you so against this democratic process? Secondly , what is my personal response to your post to do with the Trust anyway - I am not allowed to express a personal opinion without your say so now? Or is it now a prerequisite to be big and shout a lot to be able to have a view that counts?

Four Jack fans banned today from all grounds in the UK for three years, no charges, no crime, no conviction, just banned.
This is just the start of things, the police are now asking for banning orders without any arrest or incident, if they think your dodgy then they can put in for a ban.

They may as well star giving out speeding fines and points even if you aren't using your car, because they think you may speed in the future, because you look like the type that would and fit into the category of possible speedrs,

Only in f*cking football, treated worse than terrorists.

Are they really quite as innocent in this case as you make out though Gwyn?

According to the report of the court hearing , these guys pleaded guilty to having been involved in no less than 5 seperate football related violence incidents. They may not have been arrested for them , but it certainly seems clear that they were involved , not just some innocent passive bystanders in an isolated case.

Now this is what alarms me, and this from a fellow football fan and a board member of our supporters Trust, a group that represents fellow football fans. this is a comment we hear from non football fans who will think, the police are always right and they wouldn't mis use their powers, and these lads must be guilty , even if they have never been convicted in a court of law.

I have been involved in dozens if not hundreds of such incidents, last game away in QPR came out of their ground with my wife, walking in the direction the police wanted us to, my wife dodges a bottle thrown by a QPR fan who have been allowed to congregate opposite the exiting Cardiff fans, a scuffle breaks out police charge in, I witness this but take no part in scuffle, yet under these guidelines,I personally committed no crime, but I was in their eyes part of the incident, I could quote a hundred such incidents.

If these lads have committed a crime, then try them in a court, judge them and if found guilty, then punish them, are you that naive to think if you give the police these powers that they wont use them to suit themselves, what about that case last season with Stoke fans in Man U, they stopped them in a bar restaurant, and made them go home, they hadn't done anything wrong, but the police were given powers to allow them to do this, if they thought they may cause trouble.

These fans took it to court and had hundreds of thousands paid out to them in damages, if these fans hadn't been organised and hadn't taken them on and got justice, the police would be using that power wherever and whenever they felt like.


If they commit a crime then take them to a proper court and try them, isn't that what the whole British Justice system is based on , innocent until proven guilty, it would appear football fans are guilty regardless, they don't even need to be judged or given a trial.

Odd that a supposedly appointed fans group board member should take this view and support the action, perhaps that is why the Trust at Cardiff City is not supported by the masses that support the club.

Gwyn

You have yet again taken something out of context and are trying to misinterpret a response to a post you made because the answer isn`t the one you were looking for.

What have I taken out of context, you have a view that is very different to mine on how football fans should be treated, I just find it strange that the view comes from a football fan, I don't think many will support your view in the football world.

I have not supported the action of banning these supporters , I just asked whether they were quite as innocent as you made out in your original post as you failed to mention that the 4 concerned had pleaded GUILTY in the court hearing that imposed the order to having been involved in football related violent incidents on no less than 5 occasions. difference.

No you are wrong, they pleaded guilty to being involved, like I would have to if I was taken to court in QPR, I was involved, as soon as a bottle was thrown at me and my wife, i was involved, accidentally and through no fault of my own, but i was guilty of being involved, even though I had broken no laws

If they had been innocently caught up in an unfortunate incident like the one you describe your wife was , or the Stoke incident you refer to that would be an entirely different matter , but that hardly seems to be the case with the Swansea fans does it?

Keith I used the QPR incident as an example, I have been in a pub with several mates and been attacked just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, would you say that makes me a criminal, because that is another violent incident.

You also twist the response around to have a go at the Trust again (no surprise there then!). Firstly , you say I am a "supposedly appointed" fans group board member. Unlike a lot of other groups , I wasn`t aware there was a "supposedly" about it - I was elected and can be unelected every time I stand for re-election every two years if that`s what the members want . Why are you so against this democratic process? Secondly , what is my personal response to your post to do with the Trust anyway - I am not allowed to express a personal opinion without your say so now? Or is it now a prerequisite to be big and shout a lot to be able to have a view that counts?

Yes I will have a go at the Trust, especially when a voted representative of a group supposedly looking out for fans takes such a stand, just like the lack of support for the train lads . wasn't it you who said you had no ideas for dealing with hooligans other than the big stick and banning orders, disgusting really from a fans leader in my opinion.

f**k me gwyn even keiths on your back now, what is this everyone pop some off at gwyn week, i know you thrive on this shit on the forum

Genuine question here - it says on the first link that I got too on the Planet Swans that they all pleaded guilty

- so what are they pleading guilty to ?

- and I know money,etc comes into this, but if you're innocent why plead guilty?

Damn. I feel for them. That's going to put a huge dent in their ticket sales.

Fook me written by a 24 stone 6.6 guy in a man kini
A serious subject that is even ridiculed by a Swansea Fan as well as our own
Saying it will effect there attendances when they sell out every game is

But now anyone that goes and knows even slightly what goes on will tell you everything Gwyn says is spot on and what I find wrong with this forum at the moment there are people with personal scores trying to settle them on here and it isn't right sort them else where. I don't agree with Gwyn on re branding one bit but there are still things he does that has my total respect.

This whole banning order is wrong and must be illegal and I am convinced somewhere down the line that those given banning orders without any conviction will get compensation as it is not democratic, or anyone can possibly agree with who believes in our democratic way of life. If they can't lock up suspected terrorists and have to release them and pay compo to them IE Guatamano bay then they will be cleared as they are being branded criminals even though they are clearly not.

Genuine question here - it says on the first link that I got too on the Planet Swans that they all pleaded guilty

- so what are they pleading guilty to ?

- and I know money,etc comes into this, but if you're innocent why plead guilty?

Thats my thoughts in a nutshell to be honest I would never plead guilty to something I hadn't done no matter what.

Genuine question here - it says on the first link that I got too on the Planet Swans that they all pleaded guilty

- so what are they pleading guilty to ?

- and I know money,etc comes into this, but if you're innocent why plead guilty?

This wasn't a trial and they haven't been charged, if they pleaded guilty, its to being in the raea where trouble occurred, and that's very different.

There's nothing in the article on the BBC indicating what they pleaded guilty to.

If it was a case of "just being in the area", I somehow suspect they'd not have pleaded guilty?

There's nothing in the article on the BBC indicating what they pleaded guilty to.

If it was a case of "just being in the area", I somehow suspect they'd not have pleaded guilty?

Join the FSF and look on there for the legal position, it's not a criminal trial, they haven' committed a crime.

Four Jack fans banned today from all grounds in the UK for three years, no charges, no crime, no conviction, just banned.
This is just the start of things, the police are now asking for banning orders without any arrest or incident, if they think your dodgy then they can put in for a ban.

They may as well star giving out speeding fines and points even if you aren't using your car, because they think you may speed in the future, because you look like the type that would and fit into the category of possible speedrs,

Only in f*cking football, treated worse than terrorists.

Three Jacks banned for stinking????

There will be 16000 (that's all they get ) more next home match then

Say what you like bout Gwynny Id rather him on my side as a supporter than some of you goodie two shoes snobs.

Here's the link from the original jack poster
http://www.ukwirednews.com/news.php/143 ... onvictions
Never heard of the site,so if anyone has a more kosher link e.g. BBC or such I'll have a read.As I say I'm interested in the case for any football fans sake. But it does say in the report

all pleaded guilty at Swansea Magistrates Court on Tuesday. Haven't put their names in obviously

Here's the link from the original jack poster
http://www.ukwirednews.com/news.php/143 ... onvictions
Never heard of the site,so if anyone has a more kosher link e.g. BBC or such I'll have a read.As I say I'm interested in the case for any football fans sake. But it does say in the report

all pleaded guilty at Swansea Magistrates Court on Tuesday. Haven't put their names in obviously

Yes they pleaded guilty to being there, simple as that and they had to because they had footage of them there, but they committed no criminal act, that's what people are missing, they have been banned under a civil matter not a criminal one.

Basically the police are making up laws that are not criminally based, get ready for the floodgates.,