why did sam allegedely want the malaysians

to be backed.....was it for his payment?...or am i missing something

to be backed.....was it for his payment?...or am i missing something

Was thinking the same.

Surely it was so he'll get some of his money back ?

Although, he did have a similar idea sonme time back.

On the other hand perhaps he thinks that will finally ruin us, and he'll either get his revenge (he did once threaten to close the club) or retake ownership.

Whichever way its all a bit bizarre.

Its pretty obvious

Wasn't there a thread on here the other day saying that Sam didn't understand why the Malaysians were implementing the changes. I believe this was after accusations that he was behind the rebranding.

But then Annis says that Sam was trying to gain support for the Malaysians and the proposed changes. So what is the truth?

the exact reason why we've turned red, so they/he can get his money back!

to be backed.....was it for his payment?...or am i missing something

Annis can baxk this up with truth now that his head is clear

On the Tuesday when the news broke and a meeting was called, we were all gob smacked, none of us there club staff included wanted the changes, but the options or lack of them were made fairly clear.
My opinion from the start and Annis and Carl will back this up, and even others who were there and are hardly friendly to me or my viewpoint will admit the true situation.

From the very start of being made aware my major concern was that we get the investment and not drive VT away with negative actions, most others present, but not all were dead against it and didn't care if he went and took his money with him basically.

The next meeting was called two days later, we were expecting good news to be honest and thought VT had backed down but was still going to invest, how wrong were we.

When we were read the statement, I'll be honest I did lose it a bit, I thought we as fans had fucked up and driven Vt and the investment away, hearing things like we are sorry for the upset, we wont enforce the change, but we wont be going ahead with our original plan to invest, they did go on to say they would try and help the club seek investment from other investors and possibly look to others to buy the club, now to me and a few others that was as good as saying. OK we offered, you refused we are out of here, but we will try and get some of our investment back and look to get new investors in, (yeh OK bet there's loads waiting)

Now at this time even Annis who was totally against blue started to mellow and said he didn't want to harm the club and he didn't think it would get to this and if it meant saving the club he would reluctantly accept red, all true ask Carl and I'm sure Annis will even back it up.

The rest you know about, press goes mad and it everywhere, Sam H rings me next day, don't know if he rang Annis or Carl first but again they can back up what he said.

Now this isn't betraying a confidence because it wasn't told as such, Sam's words more or less to me are " Gwyn what is wrong with the fans are they mad, why are they protesting now, why not wait until he's invested and tied himself into the club, if they want to protest, get his money first, buy the players you need, build the training ground expand the stadium and then protest" I did say that was my original view anyway so he didn't have to convince me or ask me to do anything on his behalf, the world had seen my reaction for themselves.

These are my views and whilst some may not agree with them I can assure you I haven't taken these views to please anyone other than myself.

Does anyone who really knows me, think for a second I would change my opinion to something that could harm the club for a bribe or a back hander, I will be upset if people that know me take that view, the others can do what they want to.
It's ironic that Sam would want the same thing as many people on the club board as most of us see these as is adversary's such as Alan Whiteley, Steve Borley and Michael Isaac, they were all singing off the same hymn sheet, why wouldn't we want the 100 million pounds on offer, if someone wants to give me a back hander for having the same view, then by all means send it over, i'll put it in the Scotts Young Guns charity.

Back to Sam, of course he would love VT to invest, coz he got more chance of any return with a billionaire owning the club, but as I said to Sam, there is no way VT will turn his investment into full equity whilst the Langston thing is ongoing, because if he did, then SAM would be straight in demanding the money owed in full and he finally would have someone who actually owned the club and who would have to take responsibility for it.

Surely this is the reason VT has never taken control of more than 50% of the shares up till this moment, lot's of us wondered why, but most of us can see why now.

How do they resolve it, ain't got a clue, they offer they adjust they negotiate but it just goes on and on, however it does look as if we are getting the investment regardless, but it wont be turned into equity until it's settled.

So as I see it in my simple view, the more VT invests, the deeper in that he is and the more chance we got of getting him to take on board our views, if however whilst this is going on, and the new re branding proves successful money wise, then perhaps we will have to say fair play VT your vision was right and we have to accept that.
Until that moment, why risk upsetting him and causing major friction, the risks are to high in my opinion.

Well said Gwyn

Excellent point

Well reasoned Gwyn

Where in the statement did it say the Malaysians wouldn't be investing anymore or would be looking to sell the club?

to be backed.....was it for his payment?...or am i missing something

Annis can baxk this up with truth now that his head is clear

On the Tuesday when the news broke and a meeting was called, we were all gob smacked, none of us there club staff included wanted the changes, but the options or lack of them were made fairly clear.
My opinion from the start and Annis and Carl will back this up, and even others who were there and are hardly friendly to me or my viewpoint will admit the true situation.

From the very start of being made aware my major concern was that we get the investment and not drive VT away with negative actions, most others present, but not all were dead against it and didn't care if he went and took his money with him basically.

The next meeting was called two days later, we were expecting good news to be honest and thought VT had backed down but was still going to invest, how wrong were we.

When we were read the statement, I'll be honest I did lose it a bit, I thought we as fans had fucked up and driven Vt and the investment away, hearing things like we are sorry for the upset, we wont enforce the change, but we wont be going ahead with our original plan to invest, they did go on to say they would try and help the club seek investment from other investors and possibly look to others to buy the club, now to me and a few others that was as good as saying. OK we offered, you refused we are out of here, but we will try and get some of our investment back and look to get new investors in, (yeh OK bet there's loads waiting)

Now at this time even Annis who was totally against blue started to mellow and said he didn't want to harm the club and he didn't think it would get to this and if it meant saving the club he would reluctantly accept red, all true ask Carl and I'm sure Annis will even back it up.

The rest you know about, press goes mad and it everywhere, Sam H rings me next day, don't know if he rang Annis or Carl first but again they can back up what he said.

Now this isn't betraying a confidence because it wasn't told as such, Sam's words more or less to me are " Gwyn what is wrong with the fans are they mad, why are they protesting now, why not wait until he's invested and tied himself into the club, if they want to protest, get his money first, buy the players you need, build the training ground expand the stadium and then protest" I did say that was my original view anyway so he didn't have to convince me or ask me to do anything on his behalf, the world had seen my reaction for themselves.

These are my views and whilst some may not agree with them I can assure you I haven't taken these views to please anyone other than myself.

Does anyone who really knows me, think for a second I would change my opinion to something that could harm the club for a bribe or a back hander, I will be upset if people that know me take that view, the others can do what they want to.
It's ironic that Sam would want the same thing as many people on the club board as most of us see these as is adversary's such as Alan Whiteley, Steve Borley and Michael Isaac, they were all singing off the same hymn sheet, why wouldn't we want the 100 million pounds on offer, if someone wants to give me a back hander for having the same view, then by all means send it over, i'll put it in the Scotts Young Guns charity.

Back to Sam, of course he would love VT to invest, coz he got more chance of any return with a billionaire owning the club, but as I said to Sam, there is no way VT will turn his investment into full equity whilst the Langston thing is ongoing, because if he did, then SAM would be straight in demanding the money owed in full and he finally would have someone who actually owned the club and who would have to take responsibility for it.

Surely this is the reason VT has never taken control of more than 50% of the shares up till this moment, lot's of us wondered why, but most of us can see why now.

How do they resolve it, ain't got a clue, they offer they adjust they negotiate but it just goes on and on, however it does look as if we are getting the investment regardless, but it wont be turned into equity until it's settled.

So as I see it in my simple view, the more VT invests, the deeper in that he is and the more chance we got of getting him to take on board our views, if however whilst this is going on, and the new re branding proves successful money wise, then perhaps we will have to say fair play VT your vision was right and we have to accept that.
Until that moment, why risk upsetting him and causing major friction, the risks are to high in my opinion.

So it took you around 4 hours to get that together Gwyn.

Finally the truth is out!!!

Annis has been roughed up by Gwyn and his cage fighting minions. Our own little bit of Chinese Democracy in the Valleys, courtesy of Mighty Joe Young.

Gwyn I have copied a small bit of your post regading you phone call from Sam here " Gwyn what is wrong with the fans are they mad, why are they protesting now, why not wait until he's invested and tied himself into the club, if they want to protest, get his money first, buy the players you need, build the training ground expand the stadium and then protest"
Will you agree with me that Sam is far from being honourable as he is suggesting that we keep quiet until the money is in the bank and then we protest. Do you not think that his statement gives you an insight into an untrustworthy man yet you seem to hold him in high esteem?

Gwyn I have copied a small bit of your post regading you phone call from Sam here " Gwyn what is wrong with the fans are they mad, why are they protesting now, why not wait until he's invested and tied himself into the club, if they want to protest, get his money first, buy the players you need, build the training ground expand the stadium and then protest"
Will you agree with me that Sam is far from being honourable as he is suggesting that we keep quiet until the money is in the bank and then we protest. Do you not think that his statement gives you an insight into an untrustworthy man yet you seem to hold him in high esteem?

Let people make their own minds up, but either way as far as I see it, if people want to protest then it make sense to keep their powder dry when they are in a position to achieve something and the investors have to deal with it by negotiation and more communication with the fans, at the moment i would say we are over a barrel, but when the investment is in and VT is totally tied into the club, I think he'll be far more responsive to fan power then.

to be backed.....was it for his payment?...or am i missing something

Annis can baxk this up with truth now that his head is clear

On the Tuesday when the news broke and a meeting was called, we were all gob smacked, none of us there club staff included wanted the changes, but the options or lack of them were made fairly clear.
My opinion from the start and Annis and Carl will back this up, and even others who were there and are hardly friendly to me or my viewpoint will admit the true situation.

From the very start of being made aware my major concern was that we get the investment and not drive VT away with negative actions, most others present, but not all were dead against it and didn't care if he went and took his money with him basically.

The next meeting was called two days later, we were expecting good news to be honest and thought VT had backed down but was still going to invest, how wrong were we.

When we were read the statement, I'll be honest I did lose it a bit, I thought we as fans had fucked up and driven Vt and the investment away, hearing things like we are sorry for the upset, we wont enforce the change, but we wont be going ahead with our original plan to invest, they did go on to say they would try and help the club seek investment from other investors and possibly look to others to buy the club, now to me and a few others that was as good as saying. OK we offered, you refused we are out of here, but we will try and get some of our investment back and look to get new investors in, (yeh OK bet there's loads waiting)

Now at this time even Annis who was totally against blue started to mellow and said he didn't want to harm the club and he didn't think it would get to this and if it meant saving the club he would reluctantly accept red, all true ask Carl and I'm sure Annis will even back it up.

The rest you know about, press goes mad and it everywhere, Sam H rings me next day, don't know if he rang Annis or Carl first but again they can back up what he said.

Now this isn't betraying a confidence because it wasn't told as such, Sam's words more or less to me are " Gwyn what is wrong with the fans are they mad, why are they protesting now, why not wait until he's invested and tied himself into the club, if they want to protest, get his money first, buy the players you need, build the training ground expand the stadium and then protest" I did say that was my original view anyway so he didn't have to convince me or ask me to do anything on his behalf, the world had seen my reaction for themselves.

These are my views and whilst some may not agree with them I can assure you I haven't taken these views to please anyone other than myself.

Does anyone who really knows me, think for a second I would change my opinion to something that could harm the club for a bribe or a back hander, I will be upset if people that know me take that view, the others can do what they want to.
It's ironic that Sam would want the same thing as many people on the club board as most of us see these as is adversary's such as Alan Whiteley, Steve Borley and Michael Isaac, they were all singing off the same hymn sheet, why wouldn't we want the 100 million pounds on offer, if someone wants to give me a back hander for having the same view, then by all means send it over, i'll put it in the Scotts Young Guns charity.

Back to Sam, of course he would love VT to invest, coz he got more chance of any return with a billionaire owning the club, but as I said to Sam, there is no way VT will turn his investment into full equity whilst the Langston thing is ongoing, because if he did, then SAM would be straight in demanding the money owed in full and he finally would have someone who actually owned the club and who would have to take responsibility for it.

Surely this is the reason VT has never taken control of more than 50% of the shares up till this moment, lot's of us wondered why, but most of us can see why now.

How do they resolve it, ain't got a clue, they offer they adjust they negotiate but it just goes on and on, however it does look as if we are getting the investment regardless, but it wont be turned into equity until it's settled.

So as I see it in my simple view, the more VT invests, the deeper in that he is and the more chance we got of getting him to take on board our views, if however whilst this is going on, and the new re branding proves successful money wise, then perhaps we will have to say fair play VT your vision was right and we have to accept that.
Until that moment, why risk upsetting him and causing major friction, the risks are to high in my opinion.

So it took you around 4 hours to get that together Gwyn.

Finally the truth is out!!!

Four hours, there is a life outside message boards for f**k sake, this ain't my full time job.

Where in the statement did it say the Malaysians wouldn't be investing anymore or would be looking to sell the club?

Look back at the original statement and the one Alan Whiteley put out this week, you will see the sections where the Malaysians say they will stay at the club and help to look for other investors because they would not be providing the investment that went along with the rebrand now. WHAT DOES THAT SAY TO YOU.

T.G. also states they would look to see if they could attract new potential buyers of the club, now does that sound like a quote from people fully committed and with a long term plan to stay at the club?

to be backed.....was it for his payment?...or am i missing something

Annis can baxk this up with truth now that his head is clear

On the Tuesday when the news broke and a meeting was called, we were all gob smacked, none of us there club staff included wanted the changes, but the options or lack of them were made fairly clear.
My opinion from the start and Annis and Carl will back this up, and even others who were there and are hardly friendly to me or my viewpoint will admit the true situation.

From the very start of being made aware my major concern was that we get the investment and not drive VT away with negative actions, most others present, but not all were dead against it and didn't care if he went and took his money with him basically.

The next meeting was called two days later, we were expecting good news to be honest and thought VT had backed down but was still going to invest, how wrong were we.

When we were read the statement, I'll be honest I did lose it a bit, I thought we as fans had fucked up and driven Vt and the investment away, hearing things like we are sorry for the upset, we wont enforce the change, but we wont be going ahead with our original plan to invest, they did go on to say they would try and help the club seek investment from other investors and possibly look to others to buy the club, now to me and a few others that was as good as saying. OK we offered, you refused we are out of here, but we will try and get some of our investment back and look to get new investors in, (yeh OK bet there's loads waiting)

Now at this time even Annis who was totally against blue started to mellow and said he didn't want to harm the club and he didn't think it would get to this and if it meant saving the club he would reluctantly accept red, all true ask Carl and I'm sure Annis will even back it up.

The rest you know about, press goes mad and it everywhere, Sam H rings me next day, don't know if he rang Annis or Carl first but again they can back up what he said.

Now this isn't betraying a confidence because it wasn't told as such, Sam's words more or less to me are " Gwyn what is wrong with the fans are they mad, why are they protesting now, why not wait until he's invested and tied himself into the club, if they want to protest, get his money first, buy the players you need, build the training ground expand the stadium and then protest" I did say that was my original view anyway so he didn't have to convince me or ask me to do anything on his behalf, the world had seen my reaction for themselves.

These are my views and whilst some may not agree with them I can assure you I haven't taken these views to please anyone other than myself.

Does anyone who really knows me, think for a second I would change my opinion to something that could harm the club for a bribe or a back hander, I will be upset if people that know me take that view, the others can do what they want to.
It's ironic that Sam would want the same thing as many people on the club board as most of us see these as is adversary's such as Alan Whiteley, Steve Borley and Michael Isaac, they were all singing off the same hymn sheet, why wouldn't we want the 100 million pounds on offer, if someone wants to give me a back hander for having the same view, then by all means send it over, i'll put it in the Scotts Young Guns charity.

Back to Sam, of course he would love VT to invest, coz he got more chance of any return with a billionaire owning the club, but as I said to Sam, there is no way VT will turn his investment into full equity whilst the Langston thing is ongoing, because if he did, then SAM would be straight in demanding the money owed in full and he finally would have someone who actually owned the club and who would have to take responsibility for it.

Surely this is the reason VT has never taken control of more than 50% of the shares up till this moment, lot's of us wondered why, but most of us can see why now.

How do they resolve it, ain't got a clue, they offer they adjust they negotiate but it just goes on and on, however it does look as if we are getting the investment regardless, but it wont be turned into equity until it's settled.

So as I see it in my simple view, the more VT invests, the deeper in that he is and the more chance we got of getting him to take on board our views, if however whilst this is going on, and the new re branding proves successful money wise, then perhaps we will have to say fair play VT your vision was right and we have to accept that.
Until that moment, why risk upsetting him and causing major friction, the risks are to high in my opinion.

So it took you around 4 hours to get that together Gwyn.

Finally the truth is out!!!

Four hours, there is a life outside message boards for f**k sake, this ain't my full time job.

Gwyn you were online when it was all kicking off and in fact were the only Mod online when the threads got taken down!!!! However it took you 4 hours to come up with an excuse!!!

Gwyn I have copied a small bit of your post regading you phone call from Sam here " Gwyn what is wrong with the fans are they mad, why are they protesting now, why not wait until he's invested and tied himself into the club, if they want to protest, get his money first, buy the players you need, build the training ground expand the stadium and then protest"
Will you agree with me that Sam is far from being honourable as he is suggesting that we keep quiet until the money is in the bank and then we protest. Do you not think that his statement gives you an insight into an untrustworthy man yet you seem to hold him in high esteem?

Let people make their own minds up, but either way as far as I see it, if people want to protest then it make sense to keep their powder dry when they are in a position to achieve something and the investors have to deal with it by negotiation and more communication with the fans, at the moment i would say we are over a barrel, but when the investment is in and VT is totally tied into the club, I think he'll be far more responsive to fan power then.

Great VT and TG ( hello both) will be reading this, I wonder how they are feeling after reading this?

I

[Igovernor]

Gwyn good post, but didn't the statement say they would be looking for new investors not buyers?

PS Gwyn remove the post now as we don't want VT and TG reading that we don't trust them and would do something as underhand as what Sam suggested

Last edited by Igovernor on Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

to be backed.....was it for his payment?...or am i missing something

Annis can baxk this up with truth now that his head is clear

On the Tuesday when the news broke and a meeting was called, we were all gob smacked, none of us there club staff included wanted the changes, but the options or lack of them were made fairly clear.
My opinion from the start and Annis and Carl will back this up, and even others who were there and are hardly friendly to me or my viewpoint will admit the true situation.

From the very start of being made aware my major concern was that we get the investment and not drive VT away with negative actions, most others present, but not all were dead against it and didn't care if he went and took his money with him basically.

The next meeting was called two days later, we were expecting good news to be honest and thought VT had backed down but was still going to invest, how wrong were we.

When we were read the statement, I'll be honest I did lose it a bit, I thought we as fans had fucked up and driven Vt and the investment away, hearing things like we are sorry for the upset, we wont enforce the change, but we wont be going ahead with our original plan to invest, they did go on to say they would try and help the club seek investment from other investors and possibly look to others to buy the club, now to me and a few others that was as good as saying. OK we offered, you refused we are out of here, but we will try and get some of our investment back and look to get new investors in, (yeh OK bet there's loads waiting)

Now at this time even Annis who was totally against blue started to mellow and said he didn't want to harm the club and he didn't think it would get to this and if it meant saving the club he would reluctantly accept red, all true ask Carl and I'm sure Annis will even back it up.

The rest you know about, press goes mad and it everywhere, Sam H rings me next day, don't know if he rang Annis or Carl first but again they can back up what he said.

Now this isn't betraying a confidence because it wasn't told as such, Sam's words more or less to me are " Gwyn what is wrong with the fans are they mad, why are they protesting now, why not wait until he's invested and tied himself into the club, if they want to protest, get his money first, buy the players you need, build the training ground expand the stadium and then protest" I did say that was my original view anyway so he didn't have to convince me or ask me to do anything on his behalf, the world had seen my reaction for themselves.

These are my views and whilst some may not agree with them I can assure you I haven't taken these views to please anyone other than myself.

Does anyone who really knows me, think for a second I would change my opinion to something that could harm the club for a bribe or a back hander, I will be upset if people that know me take that view, the others can do what they want to.
It's ironic that Sam would want the same thing as many people on the club board as most of us see these as is adversary's such as Alan Whiteley, Steve Borley and Michael Isaac, they were all singing off the same hymn sheet, why wouldn't we want the 100 million pounds on offer, if someone wants to give me a back hander for having the same view, then by all means send it over, i'll put it in the Scotts Young Guns charity.

Back to Sam, of course he would love VT to invest, coz he got more chance of any return with a billionaire owning the club, but as I said to Sam, there is no way VT will turn his investment into full equity whilst the Langston thing is ongoing, because if he did, then SAM would be straight in demanding the money owed in full and he finally would have someone who actually owned the club and who would have to take responsibility for it.

Surely this is the reason VT has never taken control of more than 50% of the shares up till this moment, lot's of us wondered why, but most of us can see why now.

How do they resolve it, ain't got a clue, they offer they adjust they negotiate but it just goes on and on, however it does look as if we are getting the investment regardless, but it wont be turned into equity until it's settled.

So as I see it in my simple view, the more VT invests, the deeper in that he is and the more chance we got of getting him to take on board our views, if however whilst this is going on, and the new re branding proves successful money wise, then perhaps we will have to say fair play VT your vision was right and we have to accept that.
Until that moment, why risk upsetting him and causing major friction, the risks are to high in my opinion.

So it took you around 4 hours to get that together Gwyn.

Finally the truth is out!!!

Four hours, there is a life outside message boards for f**k sake, this ain't my full time job.

Gwyn you were online when it was all kicking off and in fact were the only Mod online when the threads got taken down!!!! However it took you 4 hours to come up with an excuse!!!

I'm on line most of the time, my computer will show I was online all night, but I was sleeping in my bed, for f**k sake it's windows, i'm also on line on face book etc but it don't mean i'm sitting there hovering, it just means my computer is logged in, can't see sense in logging in and logging out, rarely knock my computer off, takes ten minutes to re boot up.
Isn't that what most people do, and as for deleting posts etc, ask the other mods to tell you who deleted what posts, I am the least active delete or banner on here, to be honest, I don't know how half the things such as logs etc work.

Adam you dont have to be ''on show'' we can be on stealth mode i missed it all i was travelling home from my alluminium log cabin

damn and blast i missed it all!!!

What I stated was Sam rang Myself, Gwyn and Carl and asked us to support VT and the Malaysians and not to frighten them off, I refused and Sam stopped phoning me for 2 weeks, Carl said he would make his own mind up and Gwyn in my opinion has changed from hating them to supporting them.



On the Thursday I said to Gwyn in the meeting uve changed your tune, you use to hate the Malaysians are u doing this for Sam ?

Daya then said there were texts sent around, which I dont know about.

But thats what did happen, end off.

Why does Sam not want us to frighten them off, because he wants his deal sorted out and the Malaysians backed in to a corner.
We have our own minds/beliefs/opinions and u decide what badge/colour u want.

I am Blue end off.

Adam you dont have to be ''on show'' we can be on stealth mode i missed it all i was travelling home from my alluminium log cabin

damn and blast i missed it all!!!

Gwyn good post, but didn't the statement say they would be looking for new investors not buyers?

PS Gwyn remove the post now as we don't want VT and TG reading that we don't trust them and would do something as underhand as what Sam suggested

Yes that's what was in the statement read out in the meeting and later in the press, but I have read something in the press from Alan Whitely stating they would look for other investors and they did mention that if someone came in with a view to buy the club, they would look at it, all a bit of reading between lines me think. Did you get my pm about call?

What I stated was Sam rang Myself, Gwyn and Carl and asked us to support VT and the Malaysians and not to frighten them off, I refused and Sam stopped phoning me for 2 weeks, Carl said he would make his own mind up and Gwyn in my opinion has changed from hating them to supporting them.


Not disputing this, but as we all know, this call came after the first two meetings at the club, and everyone knew how i felt from the start, I haven' had to change my views or opinions to suit anyone, right or wrong?


On the Thursday I said to Gwyn in the meeting uve changed your tune, you use to hate the Malaysians are u doing this for Sam ?

You also said that you would accept the red rebranding because you thought it was the best deal for the club? and as for hating the Malaysians, I've never met them, like many others I have wished they simply gave us the funding we all wanted to buy the players we new we needed, but as for hating them, why? they did save us at the end of the day.
Can't see up until now, what they have done wrong for anyone to hate them, I can understand a few might say that now, but hate is a very powerful word.


Daya then said there were texts sent around, which I dont know about.

Well Dayo reckons you do, so what texts is he on about, who sent them and who had them or is it just him stirring again with no evidence?

But thats what did happen, end off.

Why does Sam not want us to frighten them off, because he wants his deal sorted out and the Malaysians backed in to a corner.

And yes that may suit Sam, but it suits us more if the investment move us forward and the langston and PMG thing can finally be put to bed. f**k me, the next rumour wuill be I'm getting back handers off PMG and ray Ransom soon, if you see me suddenly posting from a holiday home in Jamaica, then it may be extra proof.

We have our own minds/beliefs/opinions and u decide what badge/colour u want.

Yes, but some of us haven't change our minds,and stuck to our guns, yes or no?

I am Blue end off.

Personally I wouldnt trust Hammam with anything he says (most of it's usually double bluff) that also goes for any of his 'trusted' inner circle chums - there is so much smoke and mirrors - there is no point wasting your time and effort.

If Hammam comes anywhere the club again that is my line in the sand - I'll never give him any of my very hard earned money again

Personally I wouldnt trust Hammam with anything he says (most of it's usually double bluff) that also goes for any of his 'trusted' inner circle chums - there is so much smoke and mirrors - there is no point wasting your time and effort.

If Hammam comes anywhere the club again that is my line in the sand - I'll never give him any of my very hard earned money again

Involvement with CCFC will at best have cost Sam Hammam/Langston £14m of his/their hard earned cash. So at that price I would speculate Sam Hammam is not that keen to return either.

Gwyn I have copied a small bit of your post regading you phone call from Sam here " Gwyn what is wrong with the fans are they mad, why are they protesting now, why not wait until he's invested and tied himself into the club, if they want to protest, get his money first, buy the players you need, build the training ground expand the stadium and then protest"
Will you agree with me that Sam is far from being honourable as he is suggesting that we keep quiet until the money is in the bank and then we protest. Do you not think that his statement gives you an insight into an untrustworthy man yet you seem to hold him in high esteem?

Let people make their own minds up, but either way as far as I see it, if people want to protest then it make sense to keep their powder dry when they are in a position to achieve something and the investors have to deal with it by negotiation and more communication with the fans, at the moment i would say we are over a barrel, but when the investment is in and VT is totally tied into the club, I think he'll be far more responsive to fan power then.

Gwyn, I can see where you are coming from and although I agree that it is a tactic, its not exactly being honest is it. Its like we are setting a trap for VT by expecting him to commit to us and when we are certain he has committed sufficiently to not be in a position to walk away then we start to protest against him. You have spent the past few weeks telling us that we should not upset VT and to not protest against him yet it would be ok to upset him once we are in a position to exploit him. I am again confused with your suggestion that we keep our powder dry until we are in a position to negotiate because you have been telling us that we did not have this right and who did we think we were for asking for it. So can you confirm that once we have got VT to commit, it is only then that you will support negotiations or opposition towards him?

Protesting against VT after he has fully committed to us will surely cause him to walk away for sure which is the very thing you are telling us to avoid at present. Although I am against the rebranding, I still think that this tactic would be the totally wrong thing to do. I think that we would have far more credibility if we tackled him head on now and lay our cards firmly on the table. At least that way we would be acting with integrity and honesty which would be the correct way to negotiate. I do find the suggestion to lay off VT until we have him firmly hooked a distasteful concept which is far more dangerous than opposing his rebranding presently.

to be backed.....was it for his payment?...or am i missing something

Annis can baxk this up with truth now that his head is clear

On the Tuesday when the news broke and a meeting was called, we were all gob smacked, none of us there club staff included wanted the changes, but the options or lack of them were made fairly clear.
My opinion from the start and Annis and Carl will back this up, and even others who were there and are hardly friendly to me or my viewpoint will admit the true situation.

From the very start of being made aware my major concern was that we get the investment and not drive VT away with negative actions, most others present, but not all were dead against it and didn't care if he went and took his money with him basically.

The next meeting was called two days later, we were expecting good news to be honest and thought VT had backed down but was still going to invest, how wrong were we.

When we were read the statement, I'll be honest I did lose it a bit, I thought we as fans had fucked up and driven Vt and the investment away, hearing things like we are sorry for the upset, we wont enforce the change, but we wont be going ahead with our original plan to invest, they did go on to say they would try and help the club seek investment from other investors and possibly look to others to buy the club, now to me and a few others that was as good as saying. OK we offered, you refused we are out of here, but we will try and get some of our investment back and look to get new investors in, (yeh OK bet there's loads waiting)

Now at this time even Annis who was totally against blue started to mellow and said he didn't want to harm the club and he didn't think it would get to this and if it meant saving the club he would reluctantly accept red, all true ask Carl and I'm sure Annis will even back it up.

The rest you know about, press goes mad and it everywhere, Sam H rings me next day, don't know if he rang Annis or Carl first but again they can back up what he said.

Now this isn't betraying a confidence because it wasn't told as such, Sam's words more or less to me are " Gwyn what is wrong with the fans are they mad, why are they protesting now, why not wait until he's invested and tied himself into the club, if they want to protest, get his money first, buy the players you need, build the training ground expand the stadium and then protest" I did say that was my original view anyway so he didn't have to convince me or ask me to do anything on his behalf, the world had seen my reaction for themselves.

These are my views and whilst some may not agree with them I can assure you I haven't taken these views to please anyone other than myself.

Does anyone who really knows me, think for a second I would change my opinion to something that could harm the club for a bribe or a back hander, I will be upset if people that know me take that view, the others can do what they want to.
It's ironic that Sam would want the same thing as many people on the club board as most of us see these as is adversary's such as Alan Whiteley, Steve Borley and Michael Isaac, they were all singing off the same hymn sheet, why wouldn't we want the 100 million pounds on offer, if someone wants to give me a back hander for having the same view, then by all means send it over, i'll put it in the Scotts Young Guns charity.

Back to Sam, of course he would love VT to invest, coz he got more chance of any return with a billionaire owning the club, but as I said to Sam, there is no way VT will turn his investment into full equity whilst the Langston thing is ongoing, because if he did, then SAM would be straight in demanding the money owed in full and he finally would have someone who actually owned the club and who would have to take responsibility for it.

Surely this is the reason VT has never taken control of more than 50% of the shares up till this moment, lot's of us wondered why, but most of us can see why now.

How do they resolve it, ain't got a clue, they offer they adjust they negotiate but it just goes on and on, however it does look as if we are getting the investment regardless, but it wont be turned into equity until it's settled.

So as I see it in my simple view, the more VT invests, the deeper in that he is and the more chance we got of getting him to take on board our views, if however whilst this is going on, and the new re branding proves successful money wise, then perhaps we will have to say fair play VT your vision was right and we have to accept that.
Until that moment, why risk upsetting him and causing major friction, the risks are to high in my opinion.

I can totally respect & accept that, thank you Gwyn.

to be backed.....was it for his payment?...or am i missing something

Annis can baxk this up with truth now that his head is clear

On the Tuesday when the news broke and a meeting was called, we were all gob smacked, none of us there club staff included wanted the changes, but the options or lack of them were made fairly clear.
My opinion from the start and Annis and Carl will back this up, and even others who were there and are hardly friendly to me or my viewpoint will admit the true situation.

From the very start of being made aware my major concern was that we get the investment and not drive VT away with negative actions, most others present, but not all were dead against it and didn't care if he went and took his money with him basically.

The next meeting was called two days later, we were expecting good news to be honest and thought VT had backed down but was still going to invest, how wrong were we.

When we were read the statement, I'll be honest I did lose it a bit, I thought we as fans had fucked up and driven Vt and the investment away, hearing things like we are sorry for the upset, we wont enforce the change, but we wont be going ahead with our original plan to invest, they did go on to say they would try and help the club seek investment from other investors and possibly look to others to buy the club, now to me and a few others that was as good as saying. OK we offered, you refused we are out of here, but we will try and get some of our investment back and look to get new investors in, (yeh OK bet there's loads waiting)

Now at this time even Annis who was totally against blue started to mellow and said he didn't want to harm the club and he didn't think it would get to this and if it meant saving the club he would reluctantly accept red, all true ask Carl and I'm sure Annis will even back it up.

The rest you know about, press goes mad and it everywhere, Sam H rings me next day, don't know if he rang Annis or Carl first but again they can back up what he said.

Now this isn't betraying a confidence because it wasn't told as such, Sam's words more or less to me are " Gwyn what is wrong with the fans are they mad, why are they protesting now, why not wait until he's invested and tied himself into the club, if they want to protest, get his money first, buy the players you need, build the training ground expand the stadium and then protest" I did say that was my original view anyway so he didn't have to convince me or ask me to do anything on his behalf, the world had seen my reaction for themselves.

These are my views and whilst some may not agree with them I can assure you I haven't taken these views to please anyone other than myself.

Does anyone who really knows me, think for a second I would change my opinion to something that could harm the club for a bribe or a back hander, I will be upset if people that know me take that view, the others can do what they want to.
It's ironic that Sam would want the same thing as many people on the club board as most of us see these as is adversary's such as Alan Whiteley, Steve Borley and Michael Isaac, they were all singing off the same hymn sheet, why wouldn't we want the 100 million pounds on offer, if someone wants to give me a back hander for having the same view, then by all means send it over, i'll put it in the Scotts Young Guns charity.

Back to Sam, of course he would love VT to invest, coz he got more chance of any return with a billionaire owning the club, but as I said to Sam, there is no way VT will turn his investment into full equity whilst the Langston thing is ongoing, because if he did, then SAM would be straight in demanding the money owed in full and he finally would have someone who actually owned the club and who would have to take responsibility for it.

Surely this is the reason VT has never taken control of more than 50% of the shares up till this moment, lot's of us wondered why, but most of us can see why now.

How do they resolve it, ain't got a clue, they offer they adjust they negotiate but it just goes on and on, however it does look as if we are getting the investment regardless, but it wont be turned into equity until it's settled.

So as I see it in my simple view, the more VT invests, the deeper in that he is and the more chance we got of getting him to take on board our views, if however whilst this is going on, and the new re branding proves successful money wise, then perhaps we will have to say fair play VT your vision was right and we have to accept that.
Until that moment, why risk upsetting him and causing major friction, the risks are to high in my opinion.

I can totally respect & accept that, thank you Gwyn.

What even this bit? : "Gwyn what is wrong with the fans are they mad, why are they protesting now, why not wait until he's invested and tied himself into the club, if they want to protest, get his money first, buy the players you need, build the training ground expand the stadium and then protest" I did say that was my original view anyway .