" 18,600 SEASON TICKET HOLDERS "

Should 18,600 season ticket holders of all been sent out a ballot vote by our club ?

Regarding the change of badge/colour ?

The club have known for months, so there was plenty of time.

Annis you need to go away for a few weeks.

Should 18,600 season ticket holders of all been sent out a ballot vote by our club ?

Regarding the change of badge/colour ?

The club have known for months, so there was plenty of time.

I think yes it would have been nice and would show that the fans point of view is noted. But when have you even seen a club taken much notice of the fans ? the club knows that the true fans will be there come what may. But yes it would have been nice for the fans to have some kind of input on things like this. Also may have thought that no matter what they do we would be with them cos we all knew that it was VT and his guys that was keeping us going ,and just maybe , they thought we should be grateful for that, and to a degree I guess they are right. But with conversation you can always avoid confrontation

Should 18,600 season ticket holders of all been sent out a ballot vote by our club ?

Regarding the change of badge/colour ?

The club have known for months, so there was plenty of time.

I think yes it would have been nice and would show that the fans point of view is noted. But when have you even seen a club taken much notice of the fans ? the club knows that the true fans will be there come what may. But yes it would have been nice for the fans to have some kind of input on things like this. Also may have thought that no matter what they do we would be with them cos we all knew that it was VT and his guys that was keeping us going ,and just maybe , they thought we should be grateful for that, and to a degree I guess they are right. But with conversation you can always avoid confrontation

You almost came off the fence there.

And what if the poll of season ticket holders had shown a clear majority in favour of the change?

Would those against it have accepted the result?

Or would it then be said that of the 18,600 only the hardcore 3,000 or so who were season ticket holders 10 years or so ago should be listened to because the rest are "plastics" who've only become season ticket holders since we've become "successful" or because they wanted a Wembley ticket.

Whether we like it or not, our club could not survive if it relied solely on it's supporters.

No

36m in debt 2 years ago and now 80 odd mill in debt since they been in charge,so you saying since they come here in 2 years they have amassed another 50 mill on to our debt.who comes up with these figures honestly

£36 million plus £40 million in loans is £76 million right away. Add in the other operating losses etc.

36m in debt 2 years ago and now 80 odd mill in debt since they been in charge,so you saying since they come here in 2 years they have amassed another 50 mill on to our debt.who comes up with these figures honestly

£36 million plus £40 million in loans is £76 million right away. Add in the other operating losses etc.

So if the Malaysians hadn't come on board, how much would we have owed under The Riddler's stewardship and what league would we be playing in?

Doesn't bear thinking about IMO, especially as The Riddler only took money out of the club and the Malaysians have only put money in!

36m in debt 2 years ago and now 80 odd mill in debt since they been in charge,so you saying since they come here in 2 years they have amassed another 50 mill on to our debt.who comes up with these figures honestly

£36 million plus £40 million in loans is £76 million right away. Add in the other operating losses etc.

And how do you know these figures?.. Seriously??

Should 18,600 season ticket holders of all been sent out a ballot vote by our club ?

Regarding the change of badge/colour ?

The club have known for months, so there was plenty of time.

WHY? what if they voted no to a change, what would they do about funding the club if the Malaysians pulled out, if the vote was to not accept the colour change or the investment, why wait till now, why didn't they step up to the mark two years ago when the Malaysians seemed to be the only answer to us staying in business.

What alternatives did you have Annis when we were intent on driving Ridsdale out of the club, were you hoping the season ticket holders would come up with the funds needed to keep us in business, what was your plan B?

What you on about Gwyn, did'nt Ridsdale lie to us about season ticket money to keep us afloat? Similar to our owners lying to us over the rebranding.

Yes he did lie, and that's why i led the march and was for his removal, how can that compare to what the Malaysians are doing, if they shaft us, I'll be first to turn on them.

Should 18,600 season ticket holders of all been sent out a ballot vote by our club ?

Regarding the change of badge/colour ?

The club have known for months, so there was plenty of time.

WHY? what if they voted no to a change, what would they do about funding the club if the Malaysians pulled out, if the vote was to not accept the colour change or the investment, why wait till now, why didn't they step up to the mark two years ago when the Malaysians seemed to be the only answer to us staying in business.

What alternatives did you have Annis when we were intent on driving Ridsdale out of the club, were you hoping the season ticket holders would come up with the funds needed to keep us in business, what was your plan B?

Why would they have voted no Gwynn , according to you the vast majority are for re-branding so why fear a ballot

so are we clasing the 40mill the malaysions have bank rolled as debt as well then in the last 2 years.

so are we clasing the 40mill the malaysions have bank rolled as debt as well then in the last 2 years.

Yes and they are charging 7% interest on it

Should 18,600 season ticket holders of all been sent out a ballot vote by our club ?

Regarding the change of badge/colour ?

The club have known for months, so there was plenty of time.

WHY? what if they voted no to a change, what would they do about funding the club if the Malaysians pulled out, if the vote was to not accept the colour change or the investment, why wait till now, why didn't they step up to the mark two years ago when the Malaysians seemed to be the only answer to us staying in business.

What alternatives did you have Annis when we were intent on driving Ridsdale out of the club, were you hoping the season ticket holders would come up with the funds needed to keep us in business, what was your plan B?

Why would they have voted no Gwynn , according to you the vast majority are for re-branding so why fear a ballot

Missing the point, what I asked was "what if they voted no" in fact I'll add to it "what if everyone voted no to it" we may be fans and loyal supporters, but there are quite a few clubs that have gone out of business, even though they have loyal supporters, at the end of the day, we can be as loyal and as adamant as we want to be, but that don't pay the bilss, does it?
What if we were all against change and VT said fair enough then, you clear the debts and run the club, could we?

so are we clasing the 40mill the malaysions have bank rolled as debt as well then in the last 2 years.

Yes and they are charging 7% interest on it

Should they loan it for free, as anyone else done that?

How much would a Wonga .com loan cost us?

Should 18,600 season ticket holders of all been sent out a ballot vote by our club ?

Regarding the change of badge/colour ?

The club have known for months, so there was plenty of time.

WHY? what if they voted no to a change, what would they do about funding the club if the Malaysians pulled out, if the vote was to not accept the colour change or the investment, why wait till now, why didn't they step up to the mark two years ago when the Malaysians seemed to be the only answer to us staying in business.

What alternatives did you have Annis when we were intent on driving Ridsdale out of the club, were you hoping the season ticket holders would come up with the funds needed to keep us in business, what was your plan B?

Why would they have voted no Gwynn , according to you the vast majority are for re-branding so why fear a ballot

Missing the point, what I asked was "what if they voted no" in fact I'll add to it "what if everyone voted no to it" we may be fans and loyal supporters, but there are quite a few clubs that have gone out of business, even though they have loyal supporters, at the end of the day, we can be as loyal and as adamant as we want to be, but that don't pay the bilss, does it?
What if we were all against change and VT said fair enough then, you clear the debts and run the club, could we?

I'm not missing the point , you have repeatedly said that the vast majority support rebranding so how could the no vote possibly win

36m in debt 2 years ago and now 80 odd mill in debt since they been in charge,so you saying since they come here in 2 years they have amassed another 50 mill on to our debt.who comes up with these figures honestly

£36 million plus £40 million in loans is £76 million right away. Add in the other operating losses etc.

It is not quite that simple. The club losses £1m p/m so over 2 years that is a maxium of £24m. The Malaysians have also settled some of the debts which made up the original £36m, so using a rule of thumb that is £16m ( the difference between £24m and £40m)

So £16m is being accounted twice (both in the £36m figure and the £40m figure) which is the reason why Annis is quoting an artifically high figure of £80m.

Finally if Langston is settled for £10m then a further £18m will be wiped from our debt. Add the £16m & £18m together you get £34m and when you deduct that from £80m you get a figure of around £46m which I would say is about right.

so are we clasing the 40mill the malaysions have bank rolled as debt as well then in the last 2 years.

Yes and they are charging 7% interest on it

Should they loan it for free, as anyone else done that?

How much would a Wonga .com loan cost us?

Correct Gwyn.

Beaky, if you read and understood the statements and well publicised info, you would have also noticed that the £40+ million that they have already invested, is part of the proposed £100 million. This and the historic debt will be turned into equity.

This will then clear the way for a total takeover, thus allowing them to find further investment and grow the club again to the next level.

so are we clasing the 40mill the malaysions have bank rolled as debt as well then in the last 2 years.

Yes and they are charging 7% interest on it

Weird as when I borrow money the bank pay me interest. Oh hang on a minute.,,,,,,

so are we clasing the 40mill the malaysions have bank rolled as debt as well then in the last 2 years.

Yes and they are charging 7% interest on it

Weird as when I borrow money the bank pay me interest. Oh hang on a minute.,,,,,,

Lies every football club owner give there money for free to there club and wants nothing back

so are we clasing the 40mill the malaysions have bank rolled as debt as well then in the last 2 years.

Yes and they are charging 7% interest on it

Weird as when I borrow money the bank pay me interest. Oh hang on a minute.,,,,,,

Lies every football club owner give there money for free to there club and wants nothing back

Well Sam H did. Oh hang on a minute...........

so are we clasing the 40mill the malaysions have bank rolled as debt as well then in the last 2 years.

Yes and they are charging 7% interest on it

Weird as when I borrow money the bank pay me interest. Oh hang on a minute.,,,,,,

Lies every football club owner give there money for free to there club and wants nothing back

Well Sam H did. Oh hang on a minute...........

I forgot to say, good debate yesterday, I really enjoyed it, that does not mean to say that that I am turning red any time soon though.

so are we clasing the 40mill the malaysions have bank rolled as debt as well then in the last 2 years.

Yes and they are charging 7% interest on it

Weird as when I borrow money the bank pay me interest. Oh hang on a minute.,,,,,,

Lies every football club owner give there money for free to there club and wants nothing back

Well Sam H did. Oh hang on a minute...........

I forgot to say, good debate yesterday, I really enjoyed it, that does not mean to say that that I am turning red any time soon though.

Same here fella. Have to agree to disagree at times but certainly respect opinions from all especially when portrayed in a respectful and passionate way

Should 18,600 season ticket holders of all been sent out a ballot vote by our club ?

Regarding the change of badge/colour ?

The club have known for months, so there was plenty of time.

WHY? what if they voted no to a change, what would they do about funding the club if the Malaysians pulled out, if the vote was to not accept the colour change or the investment, why wait till now, why didn't they step up to the mark two years ago when the Malaysians seemed to be the only answer to us staying in business.

What alternatives did you have Annis when we were intent on driving Ridsdale out of the club, were you hoping the season ticket holders would come up with the funds needed to keep us in business, what was your plan B?

Why would they have voted no Gwynn , according to you the vast majority are for re-branding so why fear a ballot

Missing the point, what I asked was "what if they voted no" in fact I'll add to it "what if everyone voted no to it" we may be fans and loyal supporters, but there are quite a few clubs that have gone out of business, even though they have loyal supporters, at the end of the day, we can be as loyal and as adamant as we want to be, but that don't pay the bilss, does it?
What if we were all against change and VT said fair enough then, you clear the debts and run the club, could we?

I'm not missing the point , you have repeatedly said that the vast majority support rebranding so how could the no vote possibly win

I'll try again, what i have said is the vote is irrelevant, even if it was 100% against, what I am saying is at the end of the day, it's not our decision and even if we were all opposed, if VT said fair enough, you don't want the change, then you run the club and pay the debts, would you see that as a victory for the fans or the club, especially if we went out of business.

Should 18,600 season ticket holders of all been sent out a ballot vote by our club ?

Regarding the change of badge/colour ?

The club have known for months, so there was plenty of time.

WHY? what if they voted no to a change, what would they do about funding the club if the Malaysians pulled out, if the vote was to not accept the colour change or the investment, why wait till now, why didn't they step up to the mark two years ago when the Malaysians seemed to be the only answer to us staying in business.

What alternatives did you have Annis when we were intent on driving Ridsdale out of the club, were you hoping the season ticket holders would come up with the funds needed to keep us in business, what was your plan B?

Ridsdale was not keeping our club afloat and not putting one penny in it, just taking. You led the march with me, did u have a plan B ?

Yeah but he has a point Annis, what is your plan with no Malaysians?

My first plan would be to stop us losing money, they havent in 2 years have they ?
Over 9 Cardiff City staff work over in Malaysia and guess who pays for them ?
Cardiff City is not rn properly and everyone knows it, do u honestly believe the Malaysians know whats going on at our club daily. Our debt was £36 mill when they took over, they totally run our club, so how come its over £80 mill now ?

My first plan would be to stop us losing money, they havent in 2 years have they ? How? Put whole squad up for sale....
Over 9 Cardiff City staff work over in Malaysia and guess who pays for them ? OK we sack them.....
Cardiff City is not rn properly and everyone knows it, do u honestly believe the Malaysians know whats going on at our club daily. Our debt was £36 mill when they took over, they totally run our club, so how come its over £80 mill now So what would you do?

Yes. Can't believe they used the CCSC ballot as one of the reasons for the change when only around 700 people voted.

Should 18,600 season ticket holders of all been sent out a ballot vote by our club ?

Regarding the change of badge/colour ?

The club have known for months, so there was plenty of time.

WHY? what if they voted no to a change, what would they do about funding the club if the Malaysians pulled out, if the vote was to not accept the colour change or the investment, why wait till now, why didn't they step up to the mark two years ago when the Malaysians seemed to be the only answer to us staying in business.

What alternatives did you have Annis when we were intent on driving Ridsdale out of the club, were you hoping the season ticket holders would come up with the funds needed to keep us in business, what was your plan B?

Why would they have voted no Gwynn , according to you the vast majority are for re-branding so why fear a ballot

Missing the point, what I asked was "what if they voted no" in fact I'll add to it "what if everyone voted no to it" we may be fans and loyal supporters, but there are quite a few clubs that have gone out of business, even though they have loyal supporters, at the end of the day, we can be as loyal and as adamant as we want to be, but that don't pay the bilss, does it?
What if we were all against change and VT said fair enough then, you clear the debts and run the club, could we?

I'm not missing the point , you have repeatedly said that the vast majority support rebranding so how could the no vote possibly win

I'll try again, what i have said is the vote is irrelevant, even if it was 100% against, what I am saying is at the end of the day, it's not our decision and even if we were all opposed, if VT said fair enough, you don't want the change, then you run the club and pay the debts, would you see that as a victory for the fans or the club, especially if we went out of business.

Totally agree Gwyn. That wall your banging your head against must be in bits by now. It seems some just don't want to believe the mess we would be in without the Malaysians. Keep the faith

Should 18,600 season ticket holders of all been sent out a ballot vote by our club ?

Regarding the change of badge/colour ?

The club have known for months, so there was plenty of time.

WHY? what if they voted no to a change, what would they do about funding the club if the Malaysians pulled out, if the vote was to not accept the colour change or the investment, why wait till now, why didn't they step up to the mark two years ago when the Malaysians seemed to be the only answer to us staying in business.

What alternatives did you have Annis when we were intent on driving Ridsdale out of the club, were you hoping the season ticket holders would come up with the funds needed to keep us in business, what was your plan B?

Why would they have voted no Gwynn , according to you the vast majority are for re-branding so why fear a ballot

Missing the point, what I asked was "what if they voted no" in fact I'll add to it "what if everyone voted no to it" we may be fans and loyal supporters, but there are quite a few clubs that have gone out of business, even though they have loyal supporters, at the end of the day, we can be as loyal and as adamant as we want to be, but that don't pay the bilss, does it?
What if we were all against change and VT said fair enough then, you clear the debts and run the club, could we?

I'm not missing the point , you have repeatedly said that the vast majority support rebranding so how could the no vote possibly win

I'll try again, what i have said is the vote is irrelevant, even if it was 100% against, what I am saying is at the end of the day, it's not our decision and even if we were all opposed, if VT said fair enough, you don't want the change, then you run the club and pay the debts, would you see that as a victory for the fans or the club, especially if we went out of business.

Everything the fans do or say is irrelevant from now on, our club is going to die, but as long as your mate sam gets his money hey, Gwyn?
Along with Guy, Borley, Isaacs and whoever else is on the board

Our club will flourish, not die

Should 18,600 season ticket holders of all been sent out a ballot vote by our club ?

Regarding the change of badge/colour ?

The club have known for months, so there was plenty of time.

WHY? what if they voted no to a change, what would they do about funding the club if the Malaysians pulled out, if the vote was to not accept the colour change or the investment, why wait till now, why didn't they step up to the mark two years ago when the Malaysians seemed to be the only answer to us staying in business.

What alternatives did you have Annis when we were intent on driving Ridsdale out of the club, were you hoping the season ticket holders would come up with the funds needed to keep us in business, what was your plan B?

Ridsdale was not keeping our club afloat and not putting one penny in it, just taking. You led the march with me, did u have a plan B ?

Yeah but he has a point Annis, what is your plan with no Malaysians?

My first plan would be to stop us losing money, they havent in 2 years have they ?
Over 9 Cardiff City staff work over in Malaysia and guess who pays for them ?
Cardiff City is not rn properly and everyone knows it, do u honestly believe the Malaysians know whats going on at our club daily. Our debt was £36 mill when they took over, they totally run our club, so how come its over £80 mill now ?

Why weren't you spouting this last week when you were busy trying to rally the troops that the deal was still on???

Should 18,600 season ticket holders of all been sent out a ballot vote by our club ?

Regarding the change of badge/colour ?

The club have known for months, so there was plenty of time.

WHY? what if they voted no to a change, what would they do about funding the club if the Malaysians pulled out, if the vote was to not accept the colour change or the investment, why wait till now, why didn't they step up to the mark two years ago when the Malaysians seemed to be the only answer to us staying in business.

What alternatives did you have Annis when we were intent on driving Ridsdale out of the club, were you hoping the season ticket holders would come up with the funds needed to keep us in business, what was your plan B?

Ridsdale was not keeping our club afloat and not putting one penny in it, just taking. You led the march with me, did u have a plan B ?

Yeah but he has a point Annis, what is your plan with no Malaysians?

My first plan would be to stop us losing money, they havent in 2 years have they ? That is not a plan it is a statement. How exactly would you stop the club losing money? We need details not statements of the bleeding obvious!
Over 9 Cardiff City staff work over in Malaysia and guess who pays for them ? I guess the club pays for them like they pay the other employees of the club. You and the fans do not pay for them, not even indirectly.
Cardiff City is not rn properly and everyone knows it, do u honestly believe the Malaysians know whats going on at our club daily. Our debt was £36 mill when they took over, they totally run our club, so how come its over £80 mill now ? Not run properly .... exactly how and why. What experience do you have running a fooball club? From what I understand Alan Whiteley has a great deal of experience and history with the club and he is also a very capable businessman. What would you do differently? How and why?

Annis, if you are going to put yourself out there as the guy with the answers then at least back it up with a business plan and some detail. If you don't then you have no credibility. Bumping you gums on a forum does not constitue constructive contribution. I challenge you to put together a proper detailed achievable plan B and submit it to the Board on behalf of the fans.