I still dont understand ?

As i've said, others have spent less, went up & stayed up. There is no glaring flaw in running a business properly. Don't spend money you haven't got. I've said it for years, so while I may not have complained at all those big games you mention it doesn't mean I was happy at the way the club was being run financially.

Changing the colour/crest is not going to make a difference.

in your opinion....

but how about if by changing it to red, in order to tie a deal with a chinese businessman who can like it to his business which may also be read, they then see it as a massive marketing opportunity....this then incourages the 100mil investment

i would highly argue that it makes a massive difference. point is you dont know just like anyone else so get behind your club

Like any other business, to take advantage of the market, you cannot disclose exactly what your plans are or someone else will go and do the same thing. It's very hard for owners of football clubs as the fans constantly want to know what is going on and when a club changes its colour and badge then a proportion insist that they insist on full explanations.

To me its very simple. VT is a very successful businessman and I am very happy for him to try and change the fortunes of my football club. If he fails then it's simple to change the shirt and badge back. I honestly don't understand why people such as Annis are all of a sudden panicking about issues like size of current debt etc when nothing has changed financially than it was the case before the investment.

A plan is put forward to rid of us of all debts and within days VT is being blamed for allowing the debts to increase by the owner of this site. I can't emphasise enough how much I am disappointed in Annis for the scaremongering that he is causing right now which is damaging the relationship between longstanding friends. It wouldn't surprise me if fights broke out between people wearing red shirts and blue shirts at the first game of the season if this keeps up. Thank god we have enough time before then for the Malysians to prove themselves

Like any other business, to take advantage of the market, you cannot disclose exactly what your plans are or someone else will go and do the same thing. It's very hard for owners of football clubs as the fans constantly want to know what is going on and when a club changes its colour and badge then a proportion insist that they insist on full explanations.

To me its very simple. VT is a very successful businessman and I am very happy for him to try and change the fortunes of my football club. If he fails then it's simple to change the shirt and badge back. I honestly don't understand why people such as Annis are all of a sudden panicking about issues like size of current debt etc when nothing has changed financially than it was the case before the investment.

A plan is put forward to rid of us of all debts and within days VT is being blamed for allowing the debts to increase by the owner of this site. I can't emphasise enough how much I am disappointed in Annis for the scaremongering that he is causing right now which is damaging the relationship between longstanding friends. It wouldn't surprise me if fights broke out between people wearing red shirts and blue shirts at the first game of the season if this keeps up. Thank god we have enough time before then for the Malysians to prove themselves

superb post

I think one of the biggest problems with this whole rebranding debate is that it has been badly mismanaged by the club and by that I mean communicating the rationale behind the reasons why rebranding is required.

One of the biggest misconceptions in my opinion is that changing colours and the club badge will bring enough shirt sales in Asia to leave the club debt free. This is clearly nonsense and in fairness to the club, TG in particular, this has never been said in any formal communication by the club but is repeated and repeated again and again on this board as if it's fact. It's not and never will be.

The rationale as communicated by TG has always been about " Exploiting and maximising commercial revenues in international markets, which it is hoped in turn will bring success to the club locally, whilst attracting new partners and investors"

To me it's crystal clear that any new revenues received as a result of rebranding be it from commercial sales, sponsership (new partners) or new investments would help reduce monthly operating losses and nothing else.

The monies to clear historic debts are currently coming from one source, Vincent Tan, and make absolutely no mistake about that. Currently any funds required to build a new training ground owned by the club, the development of the ground and the team are also coming from Vincent Tan. All of this with the promise that any loans will be converted to equityor shares in the company and not held on the balance sheet as debt. The only fly in the ointment is Langston as that has to be finalised to secure this investment from VT.

In the 47 years I have been watching the Bluebirds I have never known an owner who is prepared to put this much money into our club and with the bank balance to back up his promises.

This is why I can accept his proposals to rebrand, and believe me I would love to see the club continue in Blue, but unless some local businessman can come up with this level of financial commitment where are the options.

In my opinion it will take at least 2 years before we see the financial benefits of this rebranding on the balance sheet and at the end of the day that will be more important than any headline signings in this transfer window.

How many of our fans will be prepared to wait and keep faith in the process sadly not many because as football fans we all want success today.

The first thing is ensuring the club continues to trade. This deal ensures that, in my view.

I'm not that concerned about immediate results on the pitch - I'm much more concerned about the longer term, and I firmly believe we will see the debts sorted out in the years to come and with that will come success on the pitch.

I've waited decades for us to become a relly big club - I'm more than happy to wait another few years for such success on the pitch

As i've said, others have spent less, went up & stayed up. There is no glaring flaw in running a business properly. Don't spend money you haven't got. I've said it for years, so while I may not have complained at all those big games you mention it doesn't mean I was happy at the way the club was being run financially.

Changing the colour/crest is not going to make a difference.

in your opinion....

but how about if by changing it to red, in order to tie a deal with a chinese businessman who can like it to his business which may also be read, they then see it as a massive marketing opportunity....this then incourages the 100mil investment

i would highly argue that it makes a massive difference. point is you dont know just like anyone else so get behind your club

And what if it doesn't? Swings and roundabouts. Maybe they should try reaching out to the people on the doorstep than people in China who in reality couldn't give a fuck about a Welsh team playing in the second tieer of English football.

Just over a year ago Craig Whyte waltzed into Glasgow Rangers, ready to pay off the debt, big transfer kitty and the future was going to be perfect. Glasgow Rangers are now in administration and Whyte and his cronies have made a fortune out of it.. The club now face going out the game or being demoted to the bottom tier.

Businessmen are in business for a reason, and it doesn't need to be a succesful business for them to make a packet out of it.

I'm behind the players and the manager, that's who I support. The rest can take a fuck to themselves because they couldn't care less about the fans or the well being of the club as long as their own pockets are bulging.

Can some one please explain to me ?

some decent answers please and honest debate.

First how come we are £82 mill in debt ?

How will we get out of this debt ?

By changing our badge, what have we achieved ?

By changing our colour what have we achieved ?

Who is paying the 7% interest ?

So are the Red lovers now saying we are debt free and no more debt ?

You left a question out....

What's the alternative?

I think one of the biggest problems with this whole rebranding debate is that it has been badly mismanaged by the club and by that I mean communicating the rationale behind the reasons why rebranding is required.

One of the biggest misconceptions in my opinion is that changing colours and the club badge will bring enough shirt sales in Asia to leave the club debt free. This is clearly nonsense and in fairness to the club, TG in particular, this has never been said in any formal communication by the club but is repeated and repeated again and again on this board as if it's fact. It's not and never will be.

The rationale as communicated by TG has always been about " Exploiting and maximising commercial revenues in international markets, which it is hoped in turn will bring success to the club locally, whilst attracting new partners and investors"

To me it's crystal clear that any new revenues received as a result of rebranding be it from commercial sales, sponsership (new partners) or new investments would help reduce monthly operating losses and nothing else.

The monies to clear historic debts are currently coming from one source, Vincent Tan, and make absolutely no mistake about that. Currently any funds required to build a new training ground owned by the club, the development of the ground and the team are also coming from Vincent Tan. All of this with the promise that any loans will be converted to equityor shares in the company and not held on the balance sheet as debt. The only fly in the ointment is Langston as that has to be finalised to secure this investment from VT.

In the 47 years I have been watching the Bluebirds I have never known an owner who is prepared to put this much money into our club and with the bank balance to back up his promises.

This is why I can accept his proposals to rebrand, and believe me I would love to see the club continue in Blue, but unless some local businessman can come up with this level of financial commitment where are the options.

In my opinion it will take at least 2 years before we see the financial benefits of this rebranding on the balance sheet and at the end of the day that will be more important than any headline signings in this transfer window.

How many of our fans will be prepared to wait and keep faith in the process sadly not many because as football fans we all want success today.

The first thing is ensuring the club continues to trade. This deal ensures that, in my view.

I'm not that concerned about immediate results on the pitch - I'm much more concerned about the longer term, and I firmly believe we will see the debts sorted out in the years to come and with that will come success on the pitch.

I've waited decades for us to become a relly big club - I'm more than happy to wait another few years for such success on the pitch

If you are saying we are in so much debt why were you slagging the club for not spending in January???

Some of your posts are like political rants by the opposition parties, plenty of criticism but nowt constructive.

Im also confused as ur opinion of VT and TG changes week by week.

Ask urself this why would VT bring in such a change if he didn't have a legitimate reason??

If you are saying we are in so much debt why were you slagging the club for not spending in January???

Some of your posts are like political rants by the opposition parties, plenty of criticism but nowt constructive.

Im also confused as ur opinion of VT and TG changes week by week.

Ask urself this why would VT bring in such a change if he didn't have a legitimate reason??

Do you evet go to the bookies?

If you are saying we are in so much debt why were you slagging the club for not spending in January???

Some of your posts are like political rants by the opposition parties, plenty of criticism but nowt constructive.

Im also confused as ur opinion of VT and TG changes week by week.

Ask urself this why would VT bring in such a change if he didn't have a legitimate reason??

Do you evet go to the bookies?

??????

As i've said, others have spent less, went up & stayed up. There is no glaring flaw in running a business properly. Don't spend money you haven't got. I've said it for years, so while I may not have complained at all those big games you mention it doesn't mean I was happy at the way the club was being run financially.

Changing the colour/crest is not going to make a difference.

Swansea lost nearly £11m the year they won the Play off lottery.

If you go to the bookies you will know the asians are crazy and like to gamble.

Red is Tans lucky colour.

This is one huge gamble and I doubt there is a legitimate reason for it.

As i've said, others have spent less, went up & stayed up. There is no glaring flaw in running a business properly. Don't spend money you haven't got. I've said it for years, so while I may not have complained at all those big games you mention it doesn't mean I was happy at the way the club was being run financially.

Changing the colour/crest is not going to make a difference.

Swansea lost nearly £11m the year they won the Play off lottery.

Rubbish

As i've said, others have spent less, went up & stayed up. There is no glaring flaw in running a business properly. Don't spend money you haven't got. I've said it for years, so while I may not have complained at all those big games you mention it doesn't mean I was happy at the way the club was being run financially.

Changing the colour/crest is not going to make a difference.

Swansea lost nearly £11m the year they won the Play off lottery.

Rubbish

Fact

As i've said, others have spent less, went up & stayed up. There is no glaring flaw in running a business properly. Don't spend money you haven't got. I've said it for years, so while I may not have complained at all those big games you mention it doesn't mean I was happy at the way the club was being run financially.

Changing the colour/crest is not going to make a difference.

Swansea lost nearly £11m the year they won the Play off lottery.

Rubbish

Fact

Prove it

Ah right so VT is as wealthy as he is because its all luck, right of course it is.

No business knowledge, connections just plain old gambles and luck.

Ah right so VT is as wealthy as he is because its all luck, right of course it is.

No business knowledge, connections just plain old gambles and luck.

Perhaps he likes to gamble in business. I would imagine to get that level.of wealth some risks would have been taken. Not all gambles pay off.

As i've said, others have spent less, went up & stayed up. There is no glaring flaw in running a business properly. Don't spend money you haven't got. I've said it for years, so while I may not have complained at all those big games you mention it doesn't mean I was happy at the way the club was being run financially.

Changing the colour/crest is not going to make a difference.

Swansea lost nearly £11m the year they won the Play off lottery.

Rubbish

Fact

Prove it

We posted a loss of over £8 million last year, they put all of the play off bonuses into last year's accounts, no idea why they done that, but yes, the Swans posted a big loss.

As i've said, others have spent less, went up & stayed up. There is no glaring flaw in running a business properly. Don't spend money you haven't got. I've said it for years, so while I may not have complained at all those big games you mention it doesn't mean I was happy at the way the club was being run financially.

Changing the colour/crest is not going to make a difference.

Swansea lost nearly £11m the year they won the Play off lottery.

Rubbish

Fact

Sorry £8.2m

BBC news Swansea lost £8.2 million last year
by Bluebina » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:26 pm

Could be fun if they do get relegated, let's hope so
Bluebina

Posts: 2100
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:32 am

Business is a risk yes but what is proposed is a business package not a gamble.

As i've said, others have spent less, went up & stayed up. There is no glaring flaw in running a business properly. Don't spend money you haven't got. I've said it for years, so while I may not have complained at all those big games you mention it doesn't mean I was happy at the way the club was being run financially.

Changing the colour/crest is not going to make a difference.

Swansea lost nearly £11m the year they won the Play off lottery.

Rubbish

Fact

Prove it

We posted a loss of over £8 million last year, they put all of the play off bonuses into last year's accounts, no idea why they done that, but yes, the Swans posted a big loss.

The accounts were up to may and play off bonuses wouldn't be paid until june

As i've said, others have spent less, went up & stayed up. There is no glaring flaw in running a business properly. Don't spend money you haven't got. I've said it for years, so while I may not have complained at all those big games you mention it doesn't mean I was happy at the way the club was being run financially.

Changing the colour/crest is not going to make a difference.

Swansea lost nearly £11m the year they won the Play off lottery.

Rubbish

Fact

Prove it

Proof enough for you

We posted a loss of over £8 million last year, they put all of the play off bonuses into last year's accounts, no idea why they done that, but yes, the Swans posted a big loss.

The accounts were up to may and play off bonuses wouldn't be paid until june

You would've thought so, but I can remember the accounts being published and they had managed to include all the bonuses hence the big loss. As I said, I have no idea why they squeezed them in on the last day of May? Can't see the difference between taking the loss one year or the next? I'm in no way an expert on these things.

We posted a loss of over £8 million last year, they put all of the play off bonuses into last year's accounts, no idea why they done that, but yes, the Swans posted a big loss.

The accounts were up to may and play off bonuses wouldn't be paid until june

You would've thought so, but I can remember the accounts being published and they had managed to include all the bonuses hence the big loss. As I said, I have no idea why they squeezed them in on the last day of May? Can't see the difference between taking the loss one year or the next? I'm in no way an expert on these things.

did it say how much they paid in bonuses, would be suprised if more than £250,000 plus

We posted a loss of over £8 million last year, they put all of the play off bonuses into last year's accounts, no idea why they done that, but yes, the Swans posted a big loss.

The accounts were up to may and play off bonuses wouldn't be paid until june

You would've thought so, but I can remember the accounts being published and they had managed to include all the bonuses hence the big loss. As I said, I have no idea why they squeezed them in on the last day of May? Can't see the difference between taking the loss one year or the next? I'm in no way an expert on these things.

did it say how much they paid in bonuses, would be suprised if more than £250,000 plus

To be honest, I would imagine that players at the Swans are on lower wages than most, but then they have bigger performance related bonuses to even things out. For example, (only a rumour) Rodgers apparently made nearly £1m last season for keeping us up, mostly made up in bonuses.

We posted a loss of over £8 million last year, they put all of the play off bonuses into last year's accounts, no idea why they done that, but yes, the Swans posted a big loss.

The accounts were up to may and play off bonuses wouldn't be paid until june

You would've thought so, but I can remember the accounts being published and they had managed to include all the bonuses hence the big loss. As I said, I have no idea why they squeezed them in on the last day of May? Can't see the difference between taking the loss one year or the next? I'm in no way an expert on these things.

It doesn't matter when you actually make the payments it's about when the liability becomes real. So as the bonuses related to the year end up to may, you recognise that amount in the accounts. It's accounting standards and basically law

As i've said, others have spent less, went up & stayed up. There is no glaring flaw in running a business properly. Don't spend money you haven't got. I've said it for years, so while I may not have complained at all those big games you mention it doesn't mean I was happy at the way the club was being run financially.

Changing the colour/crest is not going to make a difference.

Swansea lost nearly £11m the year they won the Play off lottery.

Rubbish

Fact

Prove it

Proof enough for you

You didnt prove they lost 11m do your statement was rubbish

We posted a loss of over £8 million last year, they put all of the play off bonuses into last year's accounts, no idea why they done that, but yes, the Swans posted a big loss.

The accounts were up to may and play off bonuses wouldn't be paid until june

You would've thought so, but I can remember the accounts being published and they had managed to include all the bonuses hence the big loss. As I said, I have no idea why they squeezed them in on the last day of May? Can't see the difference between taking the loss one year or the next? I'm in no way an expert on these things.

did it say how much they paid in bonuses, would be suprised if more than £250,000 plus

Less than 10k a man bonus for getting a 90m windfall

Im glad your noty boss

Like any other business, to take advantage of the market, you cannot disclose exactly what your plans are or someone else will go and do the same thing. It's very hard for owners of football clubs as the fans constantly want to know what is going on and when a club changes its colour and badge then a proportion insist that they insist on full explanations.

To me its very simple. VT is a very successful businessman and I am very happy for him to try and change the fortunes of my football club. If he fails then it's simple to change the shirt and badge back. I honestly don't understand why people such as Annis are all of a sudden panicking about issues like size of current debt etc when nothing has changed financially than it was the case before the investment.

A plan is put forward to rid of us of all debts and within days VT is being blamed for allowing the debts to increase by the owner of this site. I can't emphasise enough how much I am disappointed in Annis for the scaremongering that he is causing right now which is damaging the relationship between longstanding friends. It wouldn't surprise me if fights broke out between people wearing red shirts and blue shirts at the first game of the season if this keeps up. Thank god we have enough time before then for the Malysians to prove themselves

Excellent post !

your right I apologise my statement was rubbish Swansea only lost £8.2m