I still dont understand ?

Can some one please explain to me ?

some decent answers please and honest debate.

First how come we are £82 mill in debt ?

How will we get out of this debt ?

By changing our badge, what have we achieved ?

By changing our colour what have we achieved ?

Who is paying the 7% interest ?

So are the Red lovers now saying we are debt free and no more debt ?

Where has the figure of £82 million come from?

Where has the figure of 82 million come from?

Its approx £82 mill.

Dai, If its a mill out, thats not the point, can u honestly answer the questions.

Can some one please explain to me ?

some decent answers please and honest debate.

First how come we are £82 mill in debt ?

How will we get out of this debt ?

By changing our badge, what have we achieved ?

By changing our colour what have we achieved ?

So are the Red lovers now saying we are debt free and no more debt ?

The only way I can see is if all debt owed to the Malaysians is converted into shares. The only way for them to recoup their money should they sell those shares is for the share price to go up. This would only realistically happen if we make the Premiership. Not saying I agree, but you asked the question.

As for the 82 million. God knows.

There will be more debt if we fail to win Promotion over the next few season's.

The greater debt the more interest has to be paid!

There will be more debt if we fail to win Promotion over the next few season's.

Its a formality now we play in red though surely?

We are now 82m in debt cos they, or the doughnuts they leave in charge over here, do not know how to run a football club.

We are paying PL wages to average footballers.

How are we 82m in debt

Langstone 24m
PMG, Ray Ranson and others 18m
VT investment in club 40m

that gives you 82m

There will be more debt if we fail to win Promotion over the next few season's.

Its a formality now we play in red though surely?

How could I forget ......A red kit playing in a blue stadium.....we're going to be laughing stocks.

its £40m to the malaysians £10m to Sam ( if agreed) £3.5m to ray ranson and around £5.5m to PMG that makes it around £59m when they have paid this off they will then convert this money into shares making them the outright owners and no debt at that point

its £40m to the malaysians £10m to Sam ( if agreed) £3.5m to ray ranson and around £5.5m to PMG that makes it around £59m when they have paid this off they will then convert this money into shares making them the outright owners and no debt at that point

I don't know the actual figures on the debt, but the figures on the accounts are much higher than what we will actually pay. I think langstone is quoted at £24m.

annis,the red lovers have their heads in the sand all because of there pathetic premier league dream and their belief that vt is gonna spend big on players ...no chance cant see it ,hes hoping we go up ,the guy doesnt realise how hard it is to get out of this league.....hate all this red shit ,even my 6 year old asked "why are the shirts red we play in blue "....on top of that my 2 year old will never see the bluebirds,other than some team in red....still fuming !!

Yes but as Annis has said, Sam is willing to accept £10m so, Annis's figures are in reality if they pay Sam off £14m lower than the £82m which give us the figure I quoted above, of around £59m

annis,the red lovers have their heads in the sand all because of there pathetic premier league dream and their belief that vt is gonna spend big on players ...no chance cant see it ,hes hoping we go up ,the guy doesnt realise how hard it is to get out of this league.....hate all this red shit ,even my 6 year old asked "why are the shirts red we play in blue "....on top of that my 2 year old will never see the bluebirds,other than some team in red....still fuming !!

Im having difficulty explaining to my kid why the bluebirds now play in red.

Can some one please explain to me ?

some decent answers please and honest debate.

First how come we are £82 mill in debt ?

How will we get out of this debt ?

By changing our badge, what have we achieved ?

By changing our colour what have we achieved ?

Who is paying the 7% interest ?

So are the Red lovers now saying we are debt free and no more debt ?

I don't understand how we will get out of debt apart from paying it?
And I still don't understand this colour change. How is playing in Red going to get more people to buy it
We all have different views on our favorite colours
So the people in Malaysian must as well not just Pro Red

So how much more red shirts are we going to sell in Asia compared to Blue?
4? 10?

ITS RIDICULOUS IDEA AND JUST SLAMS US LOYAL FANS IN THE FACE!

Its one of the stupidest ideas ever but have felt I have to accept it because of our debt that they wasn't going to pay off
The safety of the club is priority yet I still hate them for changing us for a quick buck where no one actually cares about us!

I can see how they would make money in the future if we reach the premier league and we have Malaysia on our shirts
But first they will need to reel some good signings and I also reckon that the badge and colour change wouldn't of affected sales at all!

I really don't understand how changing our badge or colour is going to achieve anything

I really don't get it

If someone can explain how a badge and colour change will get us out of debt and fire us to the Premier league then I would be grateful of the answer, because I'm fuckin baffled.

Yes I will still be there come rain or shine, Red or Blue and support the BLUEBIRDS....but I'm not happy about the Badge change one bit

Can some one please explain to me ?

some decent answers please and honest debate.

First how come we are £82 mill in debt ?

How will we get out of this debt ?

By changing our badge, what have we achieved ?

By changing our colour what have we achieved ?

So are the Red lovers now saying we are debt free and no more debt ?

I though the debt was in the region of 70 million - so another 12 million is worrying, if that is the case.

On the points you raise :

If £100 million is put in, I see it as follows :

1. £10 million to Langston - that wipes 24 Million off the debt, so if my figure of 70 million is correct, then it brings the debt down to 46 million, and 90 million left

2. £40 million to cover the other debts we've accrued - leaving £50 million left

3. That amount will then be there for :
(i) extending the stadium ,which we definitely need if we were to be promoted, as the Jacks have missed a trick with having more demand than supply, and we need to capitalise on that if we get up and get most of South Wales CCFC
(ii) the new training facilities
(iii) squad strengthening

Now, the amount may not be 100 million - I don't think I've seen that figure officially anywhere, but I think its likely to be somewhere in that region to do all of the above.

The key thing is that Langston is paid off, and the above debts are turned into equity - if that happens, I will be happy. Personally, if Sam were to come back and work with the Malaysians in some capacity, taht would be the icing on the cake for me, as I've always loved Sam and that would be a dream come true (which after last summer's statement about the forensic accountants, I didn't think would happen, but if it can, great )

The reasons why the colour change and Dragon badge were necessary is still unkown, but it may be that VT (and possibly other investors) see this as a way of getting massive support for us in China, which is where all the richest teams in the world are trying to get into, as that's the burgeoning market. We'll have to wait to see to be certain, but I think that's very likely personally.

I'm trying to look at this as logically as possible here, and if there was no ultimate benefit here why would VT want to do this? If we end up being poor on the pitch for a long time, what benefit will VT get out of that - the only way he can realise any profit from us is by getting us up to the Premiership - he may not be doing it for the love of CCFC, but if his ambitions financially mean we become a good (possible even great) team on th pitch, doesn't that mean we're both winners?

I do however have real sympathy with everybody who feels really strongly about the change to red - I'm possibly in a very small minority that wanted it when Sam mentioned it about a decade ago, but I know the vast majority of fans are not with me on that one.

The gloating and name callings I absolutely hate, and I will not engage like that, as its my fellow fans here who are going through agonies over this issue.

I still however think we have more that unite us than divides us, and I believe we will get through this in the end.

I'm not sure if I'm right on all the above Annis, but these are just me genuine views on the issue.

Yes but as Annis has said, Sam is willing to accept £10m so, Annis's figures are in reality if they pay Sam off £14m lower than the £82m which give us the figure I quoted above, of around £59m

I agree, the £82m is like the original price of a DFS sofa before the sale, but for account purposes they can justify them.

I don't think there are any genuine red lovers. I do think that there are fans who are very concerned that if the investors did choose to walk away we would be finished as a club that strives to move forward.

Can some one please explain to me ?

some decent answers please and honest debate.

First how come we are £82 mill in debt ?

How will we get out of this debt ?

By changing our badge, what have we achieved ?

By changing our colour what have we achieved ?

Who is paying the 7% interest ?

So are the Red lovers now saying we are debt free and no more debt ?

I don't know the breakdown of our debt in full surely when accounts published we will know more for certain, what is certain is the owners have been funding us month on month to ensure bills, players, tax man is paid. Any business would not just donate this month on month it is clearly investment that needs to be classed as a negative on our balance sheet. What were the alternatives, sell all our value players and dramatically reduce the wage bill to ensure we get closer to income against expenditure being out of the red!

How will we get out of debt? Well perhaps I have mis-read something but this investment was supposed to do this in the form of equity shares. Assuming a deal with Langstone is settled in the short term then my expectations is the Malaysian debt will be converted into shares.

The debt to PMG is due to be cleared in the next 18 months according to club officials.

In regards to then colour and badge change, it has clearly not achieved anything at this early stage and like most have said we are unsure what it will achieve, however, VT and TG believe it will so only time will tell. My instincts are telling me that VT is a billionaire with some considerable links and contacts throughout Asia, if we are marketed (dragons and all) then there might be a gap in China/Asia for us? This is extremely long term thinking as we are not going to make in roads overseas for a few years, premiership is a must to even make a start I would suggest!

7% well again I don't know much about the finances, assume the owners are covering the debts as they have done and will be converted to equity (when this is I would like to know but this wont happen overnight)

I don't think "Red Lovers" is a great way to refer to fans. I am certain we have less than 1% who are "Red Lovers" as you put it. I would suggest the polls in which are supporting the re-branding are solely for the investment and safe future of Cardiff City. I have been a die hard city fan since I saw us draw 1-1 with Blackpool in 1992, Blue is very much my favourite colour but I have learnt to go with change in my work in the last few years so my company can prosper in the long term. Clearly city is more emotional business to us fans but I am willing to give our owners a chance. If investment does not happen as they have agreed you will find the majority of fans will turn on them quite quickly but at this stage I have no reason to doubt them!

Hope this comes across as a constructive response to your post? We all love the city but people are different, the 2-3000 fans who supported us in division 3 are small in comparison to the fans we now get. I was one of them small minority in the 90's home and away but these proposals would suggest the club for the first time financially will be secure with no danger of going under!

Blooooobirds

The Malaysians who have a proven business acumen have come up with a proposition which may or may not work, what is your solution to solving the debt?

The Malaysians who have a proven business acumen have come up with a proposition which may or may not work, what is your solution to solving the debt?

Their business acumen hasnt served them very well in football so far.

Acrued 40m of extra debt in just over 2 years. hmmmm.

The Malaysians who have a proven business acumen have come up with a proposition which may or may not work, what is your solution to solving the debt?

Their business acumen hasnt served them very well in football so far.

Acrued 40m of extra debt in just over 2 years. hmmmm.

£29m of that is only the running cost over the last 24 months if we are working with a monthly expenditure of £1.2m

So they have invested £10m elsewhere etc etc.

Once the Langston Debt is settled, and they convert their debt into Equity (shares) I really don't see the problem. (Apart from the fact that this is what they are telling us they will do at the moment) saying and doing though are quite different.

Can some one please explain to me ?

some decent answers please and honest debate.

First how come we are £82 mill in debt ?

I think some would dispute 82 million, The debt to Langston is anything up to thirty million, but that may be settled for a lot less, since the Malaysian have come in, they have spent around 40 million which at present is owed to them. They have had limited income s many income sources such as bar and food takings, rental from retail park, playre sales etc as been taken by others due to deals done by PR, they have also had to settle many outsanding debts that we all new about tax etc.

How will we get out of this debt ?

By letting them turn their investment into equity, easy, they own the club the club, the debt is theirs, it's like buying a house, if you have a mortgage you owe the mortgage company hence debt, if you pay off the mortgage, you own the house, hence no debt.

By changing our badge, what have we achieved ?

The fusion of our club with what they see as the power of the dragon which means a lot out east and also the stronger link and identity with Wales (incidentally, I hate the badge)what we have achieved is the massive investment and support of a billionaire backer.

By changing our colour what have we achieved ?

[color=#BF00FF]Red is a colour that signifies something in the east, to do again with power and success, I also think it's to do with a Welsh link again, also who knows if VT has backers lined up who's image and identity is linked to Red, like a MacDonalds etc.what we have achieved is the massive investment and support of a billionaire backer.

Who is paying the 7% interest ?

[color=#BF00FF]The club are, any debt new or historical at the club is set at this level, could be a lot worse, if you are desperate for a loan you will pay a much higher intereste than this, that's how companies like Wonga exist.Once they turn the investment into equity, there will be no interest to pay, because there will be no loan, save us millions.
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So are the Red lovers now saying we are debt free and no more debt ?

I don't think anyone has come out saying they are red lovers? most of us are club lovers who will accept red if it brings about the benefits and stability that goes along with change.
Hope this answers the questions.

The Malaysians who have a proven business acumen have come up with a proposition which may or may not work, what is your solution to solving the debt?

Their business acumen hasnt served them very well in football so far.

Acrued 40m of extra debt in just over 2 years. hmmmm.

how naive, they have purchased a club that was losing millions a month, just because they arrive doesnt mean the club stops losing money. it has been losing money from previous regimes and that takes time to adjust and balance. id say we are opperating on a pretty low expeniture for a club our size but unfortunatly our income streams are no where near big enough to support us hence VT wanting to promote us in the far east.

Also has it ever occured to anyone that the money is not coming from VT but an asian investoer and that wearing red was a request from that person. i dont think the 100mil is from VT becuase if it was he would of pumped it in months ago

Can some one please explain to me ?

some decent answers please and honest debate.

First how come we are £82 mill in debt ?

I think some would dispute 82 million, The debt to Langston is anything up to thirty million, but that may be settled for a lot less, since the Malaysian have come in, they have spent around 40 million which at present is owed to them. They have had limited income s many income sources such as bar and food takings, rental from retail park, playre sales etc as been taken by others due to deals done by PR, they have also had to settle many outsanding debts that we all new about tax etc.

How will we get out of this debt ?

By letting them turn their investment into equity, easy, they own the club the club, the debt is theirs, it's like buying a house, if you have a mortgage you owe the mortgage company hence debt, if you pay off the mortgage, you own the house, hence no debt.

By changing our badge, what have we achieved ?

The fusion of our club with what they see as the power of the dragon which means a lot out east and also the stronger link and identity with Wales (incidentally, I hate the badge)what we have achieved is the massive investment and support of a billionaire backer.

By changing our colour what have we achieved ?

[color=#BF00FF]Red is a colour that signifies something in the east, to do again with power and success, I also think it's to do with a Welsh link again, also who knows if VT has backers lined up who's image and identity is linked to Red, like a MacDonalds etc.what we have achieved is the massive investment and support of a billionaire backer.

Who is paying the 7% interest ?

[color=#BF00FF]The club are, any debt new or historical at the club is set at this level, could be a lot worse, if you are desperate for a loan you will pay a much higher intereste than this, that's how companies like Wonga exist.Once they turn the investment into equity, there will be no interest to pay, because there will be no loan, save us millions.
[/color]
So are the Red lovers now saying we are debt free and no more debt ?

I don't think anyone has come out saying they are red lovers? most of us are club lovers who will accept red if it brings about the benefits and stability that goes along with change.
Hope this answers the questions.

This

7% is what sam/Langston charged on their loan.

7% is what sam/Langston charged on their loan.

And it is what VT is charging on his current loans.

7% of £40m could get us a new striker

7% is what sam/Langston charged on their loan.

And it is what VT is charging on his current loans. NEVER

7% of £40m could get us a new striker