Annis - Take a more balanced view

Annis,

It is easy to spin a message to change peoples opinions, but as with most things there is always a different view point.

You state we are approx £82 million in debt and present this in such a way as to infer the malaysians are at fault for not addressing this and making things worse

An alternative way of presenting this, would be to state that VT chose to risk £40 million of his own money to ensure cardiff city remained solvent and in the championship, without any guarantee he would ever get this money back, let alone additional inerest.

By all accounts he has not taken a penny from the club in interest or salary and he has no choice but to continue honouring player contracts, wages and to pay hmrc to keep the club afloat.

In return he has taken a brave (some may say misplaced decision to impose his own ideas on the club, which i personally don't agree with) decision to impose his own ideas, but lets be honest he has the right to make those decisions, whether we like it or not.

If he had borrowed money to take over the club and secured that debt against the club, I would think very differently, but you are being disingenuous by suggesting they are patently dishonest (and therefore by inference untrustworthy) when on the face of it they have little to gain but massive amounts to lose.

By any measure, £40 million is a huge sum and we should be grateful to the only person on the planet that showed any interest in bailing us out when we were on the brink of extinction or at best admin and relegation in the lower leagues.

But hey, lets keep focusing on the fact that they have changed their minds with regards to sams involvement.

Lets be honest life is about compromise and if VT had to make concessions and allow Sam an opportunity to return to the club in some capacity to secure a significantly debt settlement then I would suggest they are living in the real world and are acting in the best interests of the club, rather than being stubborn and preventing a settlement.

Oh and by the way It was not that long ago that sam was stating that the money was owed to langstone and he was just a represntative, rather than oeed to him personally. Perhaps you will agree that this too was quite frankly complete and utter lies and far more cloak and dagger than the malaysians have been.

At least the malaysians conduct their business through legitimate businesses rather than opaque shadowy shell companies created to disguise where money is being directed. What have langstone to hide? Who can blame the malaysians for employing forensic accountants to try and get some answers when such conscious efforts have been made to disguise the beneficiaries of any repayment??

The voice of reason! Thank God.

THey have put the money in ,in such a way that if they walked they could have it the money back. This has been talked about even on this board in some threads. It is true that without there money we would be in a hell of a mess and we are still not 100% in the clear now.

THey have put the money in ,in such a way that if they walked they could have it the money back. This has been talked about even on this board in some threads. It is true that without there money we would be in a hell of a mess and we are still not 100% in the clear now.

absolutely correct

Its a shame that the Malaysians do not take a balanced view of our concerns regarding the rebranding.

Annis,

It is easy to spin a message to change peoples opinions, but as with most things there is always a different view point.

You state we are approx £82 million in debt and present this in such a way as to infer the malaysians are at fault for not addressing this and making things worse

An alternative way of presenting this, would be to state that VT chose to risk £40 million of his own money to ensure cardiff city remained solvent and in the championship, without any guarantee he would ever get this money back, let alone additional inerest.

By all accounts he has not taken a penny from the club in interest or salary and he has no choice but to continue honouring player contracts, wages and to pay hmrc to keep the club afloat.

In return he has taken a brave (some may say misplaced decision to impose his own ideas on the club, which i personally don't agree with) decision to impose his own ideas, but lets be honest he has the right to make those decisions, whether we like it or not.

If he had borrowed money to take over the club and secured that debt against the club, I would think very differently, but you are being disingenuous by suggesting they are patently dishonest (and therefore by inference untrustworthy) when on the face of it they have little to gain but massive amounts to lose.

By any measure, £40 million is a huge sum and we should be grateful to the only person on the planet that showed any interest in bailing us out when we were on the brink of extinction or at best admin and relegation in the lower leagues.

But hey, lets keep focusing on the fact that they have changed their minds with regards to sams involvement.

Lets be honest life is about compromise and if VT had to make concessions and allow Sam an opportunity to return to the club in some capacity to secure a significantly debt settlement then I would suggest they are living in the real world and are acting in the best interests of the club, rather than being stubborn and preventing a settlement.

Oh and by the way It was not that long ago that sam was stating that the money was owed to langstone and he was just a represntative, rather than oeed to him personally. Perhaps you will agree that this too was quite frankly complete and utter lies and far more cloak and dagger than the malaysians have been.

At least the malaysians conduct their business through legitimate businesses rather than opaque shadowy shell companies created to disguise where money is being directed. What have langstone to hide? Who can blame the malaysians for employing forensic accountants to try and get some answers when such conscious efforts have been made to disguise the beneficiaries of any repayment??

An excellent balanced view. Unfortunately AA has an axe to grind. Only my opinion though!

It is highly unlikely they will take anything other than a huge loss if they bailed out, because thay would have to accept a pittance of an offer from any potential buyer, because they would have to accept liability for the existing debts.

The alternative would be to take the club into admin and accept a significantly reduced amount as a result of a fire sale of players or a sale of the ground.

If you think they could walk away whenever they want with their £40 million in their back pockets you are deluded

Its a shame that the Malaysians do not take a balanced view of our concerns regarding the rebranding.

I dont think anyone on this board or anyone who supports Cardiff City wants the rebranding, but the man who pays the pipper calls the tune. Lets think that while Cardiff City runs out every week to paly there games, they take our history onto the field with them. So with a chang of colour, or a change of badge our history is still there , and not just for us, but for our kids also.
Also Just a chang of badge and a chang of colour will not change Cardiff City, it may in your mined but if you think Blue no one can take that from you!

Blinkered by Sam Hammam in my opinion...

Balanced view, my arse The Malaysians are philistines and liars.

Llangain, thanks for your balanced and well thought out viewpoint.

Even if they have lied, are you in any way grateful for their £40 million lifeline when everyone else shunned us as a lost cause?

I shop at Sainsbury's......if mr Sainsbury wants to change from orange to pink....then that's his business at the end of the day, I'm a punter....I don't see any difference with ccfc.....I pay my money and I get my product ( Entertainment in this instance).

I've never taken Cardiff city to serious....I don't get emotionally attached because there's no value in it.

If the malaysians walk away we change back to blue just as easily as we,ve been forced to change to red, this on the assumption we still have a club which can change kit. No club has the right to immortality!

Putting on my balanced and well thought out hat (as much as I can anyway);

Yes, the Malaysians stabilised the club, after some difficult years. Credit there. But why are they in this? Because they like football? Because they want to make money? That's fair enough, but this 're-branding' is without precedent in English football.

Philistines, because they know the price of everything, but the value of nothing. Liars, because they lied in TG's open letter. Please don't give me the 'changed circumstances' story. A lie is a lie.

CCFC were in financial difficulties, but it is not a simple choice of red kid or no club. Few things in life are that simple. Pompey and Rangers are still with us. We would have to find new buyers. Something would turn up. When did a professional football club of our size last vanish in England? Football is not like other businesses.

Before you ask, no I don't have £70m. We have quite a few 'businessmen' and 'financial experts' on here these days. All I am saying is that the 're-branding' was not necessary.

Why should Annis take a more balanced view. No one else does when voicing their opinion, including me. Before people start having a pop at him, just remember Annis is without doubt one of Cardiffs most loyal and passionate fans. Sure he's got his faults and we certainly ain't always seen eye to eye. But f*cking hell if you slashed him his blood would be blue. You got your opinions and so has he.

Llangain,

I agree with you in that rebranding was not necessary, but VT may know something we don't. I don't believe it will make us any more marketable and i don't agree with it, but time will tell.

I also agree that the club will probably survive if VT walks away, but the damage would be huge and it would take many years or another rich benefactor to get us back to where we are now.

Liars or flexible businessman that adapt to changing circumstances. None of us truly know what has happened behind the scenes, but i'm not ready to castigate the owners for changing tack, not yet at least.

Why should Annis take a more balanced view. No one else does when voicing their opinion, including me. Before people start having a pop at him, just remember Annis is without doubt one of Cardiffs most loyal and passionate fans. Sure he's got his faults and we certainly ain't always seen eye to eye. But f*cking hell if you slashed him his blood would be blue. You got your opinions and so has he.

Well said.

Cardiff yid,

I'm not having a go at anyone for expressing their 'honest' opinions, but I think it's fair to say that Annis and others can spin messages to suit their own viewpoints or agenda at times. However His pashion for th Bluebirds will never be disputed.

I'm simply suggesting that views need to be presented in a more balanced manner taking into account all the
facts and not just snippets to suit.

Putting on my balanced and well thought out hat (as much as I can anyway);

Yes, the Malaysians stabilised the club, after some difficult years. Credit there. But why are they in this? Because they like football? Because they want to make money? That's fair enough, but this 're-branding' is without precedent in English football.

Philistines, because they know the price of everything, but the value of nothing. Liars, because they lied in TG's open letter. Please don't give me the 'changed circumstances' story. A lie is a lie.

CCFC were in financial difficulties, but it is not a simple choice of red kid or no club. Few things in life are that simple. Pompey and Rangers are still with us. We would have to find new buyers. Something would turn up. When did a professional football club of our size last vanish in England? Football is not like other businesses.

Before you ask, no I don't have £70m. We have quite a few 'businessmen' and 'financial experts' on here these days. All I am saying is that the 're-branding' was not necessary.

You're not wrong. Not wrong at all

Putting on my balanced and well thought out hat (as much as I can anyway);

Yes, the Malaysians stabilised the club, after some difficult years. Credit there. But why are they in this? Because they like football? Because they want to make money? That's fair enough, but this 're-branding' is without precedent in English football.

Philistines, because they know the price of everything, but the value of nothing. Liars, because they lied in TG's open letter. Please don't give me the 'changed circumstances' story. A lie is a lie.

CCFC were in financial difficulties, but it is not a simple choice of red kid or no club. Few things in life are that simple. Pompey and Rangers are still with us. We would have to find new buyers. Something would turn up. When did a professional football club of our size last vanish in England? Football is not like other businesses.

Before you ask, no I don't have £70m. We have quite a few 'businessmen' and 'financial experts' on here these days. All I am saying is that the 're-branding' was not necessary.

Good post.

Putting on my balanced and well thought out hat (as much as I can anyway);

Yes, the Malaysians stabilised the club, after some difficult years. Credit there. But why are they in this? Because they like football? Because they want to make money? That's fair enough, but this 're-branding' is without precedent in English football.

Philistines, because they know the price of everything, but the value of nothing. Liars, because they lied in TG's open letter. Please don't give me the 'changed circumstances' story. A lie is a lie.

CCFC were in financial difficulties, but it is not a simple choice of red kid or no club. Few things in life are that simple. Pompey and Rangers are still with us. We would have to find new buyers. Something would turn up. When did a professional football club of our size last vanish in England? Football is not like other businesses.

Before you ask, no I don't have £70m. We have quite a few 'businessmen' and 'financial experts' on here these days. All I am saying is that the 're-branding' was not necessary.

Good post.

................

If you said two years ago 'something will turn up, when was the last time a club our size went out of business' I would have shared your relaxed attitude.

However the football bubble is bursting and there are fewer and fewer willing investors showing an interest in football clubs and those that are, generally don't invest use their own money. They borrow and secure the debt against the clubs assets, which puts the club at even greater risk. I'd rather have the malaysians than the likes of venkys

Liquidation is a very real threat, although I agree it is unlikely. Even if we go into admin and avoid liquidation we certainly won't come out in a strong position.

Putting on my balanced and well thought out hat (as much as I can anyway);

Yes, the Malaysians stabilised the club, after some difficult years. Credit there. But why are they in this? Because they like football? Because they want to make money? That's fair enough, but this 're-branding' is without precedent in English football.

Philistines, because they know the price of everything, but the value of nothing. Liars, because they lied in TG's open letter. Please don't give me the 'changed circumstances' story. A lie is a lie.

CCFC were in financial difficulties, but it is not a simple choice of red kid or no club. Few things in life are that simple. Pompey and Rangers are still with us. We would have to find new buyers. Something would turn up. When did a professional football club of our size last vanish in England? Football is not like other businesses.

Before you ask, no I don't have £70m. We have quite a few 'businessmen' and 'financial experts' on here these days. All I am saying is that the 're-branding' was not necessary.

As a matter of interest just what did TG stand to gain from 'lying' to you?

I have to admit out of the rhetoric coming from those who are against the rebranding; this slur that TG had 'lied' is the one that bugs me the most.

At the time of his statement the investment was off because of the disgusting abuse (including racial) which was aimed at VT/TG. As they had called off the investment there was no need to change the home shirts for next season so we could continue to play in Blue, TG said this. We all know what happened next and they were persuaded to comeback on board. The original investment included changing the home shirt to Red, so it is quite bleeding obvious that if they were going to come on board again the shirts would again be changed to Red for next season.

TG would only be lying if he said the Blue was staying no matter what; investment or no investment.

However, if you read his statement he clearly says that they were looking for other investors or another way forward and not implementing the original plan, so yes the change of circumstances is very valid to any fair minded intelligent person would understand that.

Frankly this ‘lying’ crap is nothing short of good old shit stirring.

Why should Annis take a more balanced view. No one else does when voicing their opinion, including me. Before people start having a pop at him, just remember Annis is without doubt one of Cardiffs most loyal and passionate fans. Sure he's got his faults and we certainly ain't always seen eye to eye. But f*cking hell if you slashed him his blood would be blue. You got your opinions and so has he.

Sorry to be pedantic ,but i think you'll find that it'll be red

Why should Annis take a more balanced view. No one else does when voicing their opinion, including me. Before people start having a pop at him, just remember Annis is without doubt one of Cardiffs most loyal and passionate fans. Sure he's got his faults and we certainly ain't always seen eye to eye. But f*cking hell if you slashed him his blood would be blue. You got your opinions and so has he.

Sorry to be pedantic ,but i think you'll find that it'll be red

Sorry to even more pedantic but thats not 100% correct.
It is only red when high in oxygen.When the blood is low in oxygen and high in carbon dioxide it is in effect blue.If you are in doubt then check out the link.
http://www.childrensheartinstitute.org/ ... ue2red.htm