Please don't call me a SELL OUT!!!!!!!!

Now i know how some fans feel and personally i hate the changes especially the badge and having supported City since 1969 i have thought long and hard but i can't walk away from the Club i love, but can understand and respect the decision of others who do so.

What i would say is players, managers and owners come and go the one thing that remains consistent and loyal is the fans we are still Cardiff City and we still play in Cardiff we will always be Bluebirds.

I wish Terry Matthews at the Celtic Manor was a ardent Bluebird because he's one of the few Welsh business men who could take our Club forward however unfortunately he's not. So we are stuck with the Malaysians and let's be honest without them we would be f*cked! You only have to think back 2 years when we were in court fighting off winding up orders from HMRC, creditors were everywhere and who can forget the Motherwell Chairman popping up on TV demanding money just after we had signed Bellamy.

It's ok saying we would have gone into administration wiped our debts and taken a points deduction but the reality is we would have been liquidated and that WOULD have meant no Cardiff City FC!

Yes we could have started again but under a different name and in the Welsh League with probably no way back into the Football League because we would no longer be Cardiff City and there is no way they would allow a newly formed Welsh Club to join the English pyramid.

Faced with that grim reality we have 2 choices and that is walk or stay with the Club you have always supported and if you want to make changes then do it constructively from within.

This is just another period in our proud history and never forget the heart beat of the Club is us has fans and personally i will always be a Bluebird.

So has i said i respect and understand those that want to walk away but please don't call me a sell out

Spot on

BH you are no sell out, it is fans like you who are the real life blood of Cardiff City FC

Now i know how some fans feel and personally i hate the changes especially the badge and having supported City since 1969 i have thought long and hard but i can't walk away from the Club i love, but can understand and respect the decision of others who do so.

What i would say is players, managers and owners come and go the one thing that remains consistent and loyal is the fans we are still Cardiff City and we still play in Cardiff we will always be Bluebirds.

I wish Terry Matthews at the Celtic Manor was a ardent Bluebird because he's one of the few Welsh business men who could take our Club forward however unfortunately he's not. So we are stuck with the Malaysians and let's be honest without them we would be f*cked! You only have to think back 2 years when we were in court fighting off winding up orders from HMRC, creditors were everywhere and who can forget the Motherwell Chairman popping up on TV demanding money just after we had signed Bellamy.

It's ok saying we would have gone into administration wiped our debts and taken a points deduction but the reality is we would have been liquidated and that WOULD have meant no Cardiff City FC!

Yes we could have started again but under a different name and in the Welsh League with probably no way back into the Football League because we would no longer be Cardiff City and there is no way they would allow a newly formed Welsh Club to join the English pyramid.

Faced with that grim reality we have 2 choices and that is walk or stay with the Club you have always supported and if you want to make changes then do it constructively from within.

This is just another period in our proud history and never forget the heart beat of the Club is us has fans and personally i will always be a Bluebird.

So has i said i respect and understand those that want to walk away but please don't call me a sell out

Spot on Jeff, sell out, some blue forever would be prepared to see us go to the wall, and we the sell outs.

Now i know how some fans feel and personally i hate the changes especially the badge and having supported City since 1969 i have thought long and hard but i can't walk away from the Club i love, but can understand and respect the decision of others who do so.

What i would say is players, managers and owners come and go the one thing that remains consistent and loyal is the fans we are still Cardiff City and we still play in Cardiff we will always be Bluebirds.

I wish Terry Matthews at the Celtic Manor was a ardent Bluebird because he's one of the few Welsh business men who could take our Club forward however unfortunately he's not. So we are stuck with the Malaysians and let's be honest without them we would be f*cked! You only have to think back 2 years when we were in court fighting off winding up orders from HMRC, creditors were everywhere and who can forget the Motherwell Chairman popping up on TV demanding money just after we had signed Bellamy.

It's ok saying we would have gone into administration wiped our debts and taken a points deduction but the reality is we would have been liquidated and that WOULD have meant no Cardiff City FC!

Yes we could have started again but under a different name and in the Welsh League with probably no way back into the Football League because we would no longer be Cardiff City and there is no way they would allow a newly formed Welsh Club to join the English pyramid.

Faced with that grim reality we have 2 choices and that is walk or stay with the Club you have always supported and if you want to make changes then do it constructively from within.

This is just another period in our proud history and never forget the heart beat of the Club is us has fans and personally i will always be a Bluebird.

So has i said i respect and understand those that want to walk away but please don't call me a sell out

Spot on Jeff, sell out, some blue forever would be prepared to see us go to the wall, and we the sell outs.

To be honest Gwyn i haven't entered the debates and name calling involving numerous threads concerning yourself and your views because i know you are big enough to fight your own battles However i know personally from many, many years following the City that there ain't many fans who have done has much has you have done for Cardiff City fans and to change the perception of City fans.

Don't agree with everything you have said but what a boring world and forum it would be if we agreed on everything, however like myself you are 100% Cardiff City and we are definitely NOT SELL OUTS

Now i know how some fans feel and personally i hate the changes especially the badge and having supported City since 1969 i have thought long and hard but i can't walk away from the Club i love, but can understand and respect the decision of others who do so.

What i would say is players, managers and owners come and go the one thing that remains consistent and loyal is the fans we are still Cardiff City and we still play in Cardiff we will always be Bluebirds.

I wish Terry Matthews at the Celtic Manor was a ardent Bluebird because he's one of the few Welsh business men who could take our Club forward however unfortunately he's not. So we are stuck with the Malaysians and let's be honest without them we would be f*cked! You only have to think back 2 years when we were in court fighting off winding up orders from HMRC, creditors were everywhere and who can forget the Motherwell Chairman popping up on TV demanding money just after we had signed Bellamy.

It's ok saying we would have gone into administration wiped our debts and taken a points deduction but the reality is we would have been liquidated and that WOULD have meant no Cardiff City FC!

Yes we could have started again but under a different name and in the Welsh League with probably no way back into the Football League because we would no longer be Cardiff City and there is no way they would allow a newly formed Welsh Club to join the English pyramid.

Faced with that grim reality we have 2 choices and that is walk or stay with the Club you have always supported and if you want to make changes then do it constructively from within.

This is just another period in our proud history and never forget the heart beat of the Club is us has fans and personally i will always be a Bluebird.

So has i said i respect and understand those that want to walk away but please don't call me a sell out

Spot on Jeff, sell out, some blue forever would be prepared to see us go to the wall, and we the sell outs.

Not sure if you had seen it Gwyn but it's been said that the they weren't going to pull out so how the hell was we going to the wall?? We still losing that 1mill a month regardless of how much they invest!!

Now i know how some fans feel and personally i hate the changes especially the badge and having supported City since 1969 i have thought long and hard but i can't walk away from the Club i love, but can understand and respect the decision of others who do so.

What i would say is players, managers and owners come and go the one thing that remains consistent and loyal is the fans we are still Cardiff City and we still play in Cardiff we will always be Bluebirds.

I wish Terry Matthews at the Celtic Manor was a ardent Bluebird because he's one of the few Welsh business men who could take our Club forward however unfortunately he's not. So we are stuck with the Malaysians and let's be honest without them we would be f*cked! You only have to think back 2 years when we were in court fighting off winding up orders from HMRC, creditors were everywhere and who can forget the Motherwell Chairman popping up on TV demanding money just after we had signed Bellamy.

It's ok saying we would have gone into administration wiped our debts and taken a points deduction but the reality is we would have been liquidated and that WOULD have meant no Cardiff City FC!

Yes we could have started again but under a different name and in the Welsh League with probably no way back into the Football League because we would no longer be Cardiff City and there is no way they would allow a newly formed Welsh Club to join the English pyramid.

Faced with that grim reality we have 2 choices and that is walk or stay with the Club you have always supported and if you want to make changes then do it constructively from within.

This is just another period in our proud history and never forget the heart beat of the Club is us has fans and personally i will always be a Bluebird.

So has i said i respect and understand those that want to walk away but please don't call me a sell out

Spot on Jeff, sell out, some blue forever would be prepared to see us go to the wall, and we the sell outs.

Everyone is entitled to their own views & respect them but I am against this change

What is next
A name change?

I just cannot believe how so many supporters are deluded & naive/gullible in their support of these Malaysians.

We are a big club with a massive potential fanbase, their are other wealthy businessmen about who would recognise this & not destroy our heritage

I'm sorry but starting again in the Welsh League is a total lie!!! Did Merthyr restart in the Welsh League? No and that was because the Welsh FA left them decide their own fate. So let's cut the propaganda and talk the truth!!!

Now i know how some fans feel and personally i hate the changes especially the badge and having supported City since 1969 i have thought long and hard but i can't walk away from the Club i love, but can understand and respect the decision of others who do so.

What i would say is players, managers and owners come and go the one thing that remains consistent and loyal is the fans we are still Cardiff City and we still play in Cardiff we will always be Bluebirds.

I wish Terry Matthews at the Celtic Manor was a ardent Bluebird because he's one of the few Welsh business men who could take our Club forward however unfortunately he's not. So we are stuck with the Malaysians and let's be honest without them we would be f*cked! You only have to think back 2 years when we were in court fighting off winding up orders from HMRC, creditors were everywhere and who can forget the Motherwell Chairman popping up on TV demanding money just after we had signed Bellamy.

It's ok saying we would have gone into administration wiped our debts and taken a points deduction but the reality is we would have been liquidated and that WOULD have meant no Cardiff City FC!

Yes we could have started again but under a different name and in the Welsh League with probably no way back into the Football League because we would no longer be Cardiff City and there is no way they would allow a newly formed Welsh Club to join the English pyramid.

Faced with that grim reality we have 2 choices and that is walk or stay with the Club you have always supported and if you want to make changes then do it constructively from within.

This is just another period in our proud history and never forget the heart beat of the Club is us has fans and personally i will always be a Bluebird.

So has i said i respect and understand those that want to walk away but please don't call me a sell out

Spot on Jeff, sell out, some blue forever would be prepared to see us go to the wall, and we the sell outs.

Everyone is entitled to their own views & respect them but I am against this change

What is next
A name change?

I just cannot believe how so many supporters are deluded & naive/gullible in their support of these Malaysians.

We are a big club with a massive potential fanbase, their are other wealthy businessmen about who would recognise this & not destroy our heritage

Oh yeah And where were they when we were on the brink of administration/winding up 2 years ago when Steve Borley had to virtually beg TG and VT not to walk away after the Riddlers lies nearly did for us

Since then our debt has worsened, we're in the middle of a worldwide recession and we've lost a number of our top players, i.e. assets, (mainly due to poor contractual negotiations from the previous regime) so were not even as attractive an investment as we were then

Come on, we may all disagree on what's happened but let's at least live in the real financial world and recognise that whatever your views on Red,TG, VT, etc. without the Malaysians we are up shit street

I'm sorry but starting again in the Welsh League is a total lie!!! Did Merthyr restart in the Welsh League? No and that was because the Welsh FA left them decide their own fate. So let's cut the propaganda and talk the truth!!!

OK so if the Club went into liquidation and reformed under a new name where would we start????

I also take offence at being called a liar and i certainly ain't spreading propoganda but it is my belief that if we reformed under a new name Cardiff City 2012 or whatever we would have an hell of a job getting into the English pyramid system but if you know different the please enlighten me??

I'm sorry but starting again in the Welsh League is a total lie!!! Did Merthyr restart in the Welsh League? No and that was because the Welsh FA left them decide their own fate. So let's cut the propaganda and talk the truth!!!

OK so if the Club went into liquidation and reformed under a new name where would we start????

I also take offence at being called a liar and i certainly ain't spreading propoganda but it is my belief that if we reformed under a new name Cardiff City 2012 or whatever we would have an hell of a job getting into the English pyramid system but if you know different the please enlighten me??

Tell me something have you ever spoken to officials of the Welsh FA about this ? No ? Well I have especially when Merthyr went under. Granted a new club would start low down but to say the English FA or Welsh FA won't allow it is a complete lie. In fact what both FA's told Merthyr was that as long as you can find a league willing to accept you then that's fine. Low and behold the leagues jumped at the chance because of the added income through the gate the other clubs in their league would get!!!

So may I suggest you stick to facts rather than propaganda!!

So has i said i respect and understand those that want to walk away but please don't call me a sell out

I wouldnt be worried if they do want to call people like us sell outs. From my point of view i didnt and still dont want red but will have accepted it as its for the good of the club.

I think as well as this investment the club needs to be more financially prudent in these tough times. I know that 3 members of staff from the community department are being made redundant as there has been a drop off in the amount of bookings they have been receiving. The club has to have the balls to cut its cloth accordingly. People saying we shouldnt have taken this investment and then made cutbacks must be off their trolley as we are clearly insolvent. This was the only way forward so for now get behind the club and lets move forward, if you cant then im sure you will have the respect of alot of people for standing up for your beliefs

Now i know how some fans feel and personally i hate the changes especially the badge and having supported City since 1969 i have thought long and hard but i can't walk away from the Club i love, but can understand and respect the decision of others who do so.

What i would say is players, managers and owners come and go the one thing that remains consistent and loyal is the fans we are still Cardiff City and we still play in Cardiff we will always be Bluebirds.

I wish Terry Matthews at the Celtic Manor was a ardent Bluebird because he's one of the few Welsh business men who could take our Club forward however unfortunately he's not. So we are stuck with the Malaysians and let's be honest without them we would be f*cked! You only have to think back 2 years when we were in court fighting off winding up orders from HMRC, creditors were everywhere and who can forget the Motherwell Chairman popping up on TV demanding money just after we had signed Bellamy.

It's ok saying we would have gone into administration wiped our debts and taken a points deduction but the reality is we would have been liquidated and that WOULD have meant no Cardiff City FC!

Yes we could have started again but under a different name and in the Welsh League with probably no way back into the Football League because we would no longer be Cardiff City and there is no way they would allow a newly formed Welsh Club to join the English pyramid.

Faced with that grim reality we have 2 choices and that is walk or stay with the Club you have always supported and if you want to make changes then do it constructively from within.

This is just another period in our proud history and never forget the heart beat of the Club is us has fans and personally i will always be a Bluebird.

So has i said i respect and understand those that want to walk away but please don't call me a sell out

Spot on Jeff, sell out, some blue forever would be prepared to see us go to the wall, and we the sell outs.

Everyone is entitled to their own views & respect them but I am against this change

What is next
A name change?

I just cannot believe how so many supporters are deluded & naive/gullible in their support of these Malaysians.

We are a big club with a massive potential fanbase, their are other wealthy businessmen about who would recognise this & not destroy our heritage

Oh yeah And where were they when we were on the brink of administration/winding up 2 years ago when Steve Borley had to virtually beg TG and VT not to walk away after the Riddlers lies nearly did for us

Since then our debt has worsened, we're in the middle of a worldwide recession and we've lost a number of our top players, i.e. assets, (mainly due to poor contractual negotiations from the previous regime) so were not even as attractive an investment as we were then

Come on, we may all disagree on what's happened but let's at least live in the real financial world and recognise that whatever your views on Red,TG, VT, etc. without the Malaysians we are up shit street

Fair comment but I disagree we are a very good investment & an attractive proposition for any investor & the club could have been more proactive in seeking new investment apart from these Malaysians.

These Malaysians are of a dubious character

http://www.malaysia-today.net/index.php ... mid=100085

But t be fair not the only ones at the club though

http://www.sfo.gov.uk/press-room/latest ... sites.aspx

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-sout ... s-12782494

I'm sorry but starting again in the Welsh League is a total lie!!! Did Merthyr restart in the Welsh League? No and that was because the Welsh FA left them decide their own fate. So let's cut the propaganda and talk the truth!!!

OK so if the Club went into liquidation and reformed under a new name where would we start????

I also take offence at being called a liar and i certainly ain't spreading propoganda but it is my belief that if we reformed under a new name Cardiff City 2012 or whatever we would have an hell of a job getting into the English pyramid system but if you know different the please enlighten me??

Tell me something have you ever spoken to officials of the Welsh FA about this ? No ? Well I have especially when Merthyr went under. Granted a new club would start low down but to say the English FA or Welsh FA won't allow it is a complete lie. In fact what both FA's told Merthyr was that as long as you can find a league willing to accept you then that's fine. Low and behold the leagues jumped at the chance because of the added income through the gate the other clubs in their league would get!!!

So may I suggest you stick to facts rather than propaganda!!

Not propoganda mate and you may well have spoken to the Welsh FA about Merthyr but have you spoken to the English FA about a reformed Cardiff City NO??? Also do you really want to start all over again at the very bottom of the pyramid rather than reluctantly accept what we have now and fight constructively from inside to change it?

I definitely ain't pro red actually hate the idea and definitely will not buy the new shirts which i think are horrible but i want to see C

I'm sorry but starting again in the Welsh League is a total lie!!! Did Merthyr restart in the Welsh League? No and that was because the Welsh FA left them decide their own fate. So let's cut the propaganda and talk the truth!!!

OK so if the Club went into liquidation and reformed under a new name where would we start????

I also take offence at being called a liar and i certainly ain't spreading propoganda but it is my belief that if we reformed under a new name Cardiff City 2012 or whatever we would have an hell of a job getting into the English pyramid system but if you know different the please enlighten me??

Tell me something have you ever spoken to officials of the Welsh FA about this ? No ? Well I have especially when Merthyr went under. Granted a new club would start low down but to say the English FA or Welsh FA won't allow it is a complete lie. In fact what both FA's told Merthyr was that as long as you can find a league willing to accept you then that's fine. Low and behold the leagues jumped at the chance because of the added income through the gate the other clubs in their league would get!!!

So may I suggest you stick to facts rather than propaganda!!

Not propoganda mate and you may well have spoken to the Welsh FA about Merthyr but have you spoken to the English FA about a reformed Cardiff City NO??? Also do you really want to start all over again at the very bottom of the pyramid rather than reluctantly accept what we have now and fight constructively from inside to change it?

I definitely ain't pro red actually hate the idea and definitely will not buy the new shirts which i think are horrible but i want to see C

So you've changed your viewpoint now within minutes. From not a chance to joining a lower league!!!!

Didn't Newport County set this precedent with a court case arguing restraint of trade ? That may be why they moved to Newport when reformed after playing somewhere in England ? Not sure of facts but something in my memory tells me this.

http://eforum1.cari.com.my/archiver/?tid-278533.html

We are a big club with a massive potential fanbase, their are other wealthy businessmen about who would recognise this & not destroy our heritage

I have not seen many wealthy businessmen knocking at the door to invest.....

i'm a potential lottery winner

potential means nothing

you have to do it if you want to be big.

Trouble is - what has happenned is very uncomfortable whether you are against or for it

no one is a sell out - we just want that time - that one time when we, Cardiff City are in the premier league.

But the trade off is almost unbearable for many and down right death to some - and a lot will clock out rather than sell out

I'm sorry but starting again in the Welsh League is a total lie!!! Did Merthyr restart in the Welsh League? No and that was because the Welsh FA left them decide their own fate. So let's cut the propaganda and talk the truth!!!

OK so if the Club went into liquidation and reformed under a new name where would we start????

I also take offence at being called a liar and i certainly ain't spreading propoganda but it is my belief that if we reformed under a new name Cardiff City 2012 or whatever we would have an hell of a job getting into the English pyramid system but if you know different the please enlighten me??

Tell me something have you ever spoken to officials of the Welsh FA about this ? No ? Well I have especially when Merthyr went under. Granted a new club would start low down but to say the English FA or Welsh FA won't allow it is a complete lie. In fact what both FA's told Merthyr was that as long as you can find a league willing to accept you then that's fine. Low and behold the leagues jumped at the chance because of the added income through the gate the other clubs in their league would get!!!

So may I suggest you stick to facts rather than propaganda!!

Not propoganda mate and you may well have spoken to the Welsh FA about Merthyr but have you spoken to the English FA about a reformed Cardiff City NO??? Also do you really want to start all over again at the very bottom of the pyramid rather than reluctantly accept what we have now and fight constructively from inside to change it?

I definitely ain't pro red actually hate the idea and definitely will not buy the new shirts which i think are horrible but i want to see C

So you've changed your viewpoint now within minutes. From not a chance to joining a lower league!!!!

Not changed my view point at all mate IMO a newly formed side would have great difficulty joining the English pyramid and if it did get permission would probably have to start right at the bottom where ever that is??? You haven't answered either of my questions have you spoken to the English FA about would they allow a reformed Cardiff City into one of their leagues and do you really want that anyway???

Also noticed that the final bit of my post was missing should have read:

I definitely ain't pro red actually hate the idea and definitely will not buy the new shirts which i think are horrible but i want to see Cardiff City survive and prosper. So unless you or anyone else knows someone who will pay off all our debts and pay all our outgoings plus invest in the infrastructure and new players then we are stuck with the Malaysians and their 'vision' and we all have 2 choices.

I have made mine because i can't walk away from the Club i love but totally respect and understand if anyone has the opposite view just sad it has come to this

The reality of all this is .Sadly thats the way football and many other sports have gone.They no longer rely on the fans to pay the wages, so the fans opinions dont matter as much as they used to. Clubs are financed from our division up to the premiership by sugar daddies and TV money. If sky pulled the plug, umpteen sports and clubs would go bust in this country. Crazy players wages are financed by sky and foreign investment while clubs at the lower end of the scale are going bust and young kids cant even find decent facilities to play sport.We are all inbetween a rock and a hard place, we have to accept change, and we have to move forward because without the money to finance our club we could go the way of luton or chester.Maybe we should have done what the jacks done and go bankrupt twice to clear our debts, then start again with a limit on the finances.......but its too late for that now so we must just keep all the happy memories and move on with the manager and players hoping that the future of the club will at least be safe.For me the shirt and badge may be a different colour but the great friends and fans will be the same.
Time to move on money talks.

The reality of all this is .Sadly thats the way football and many other sports have gone.They no longer rely on the fans to pay the wages, so the fans opinions dont matter as much as they used to. Clubs are financed from our division up to the premiership by sugar daddies and TV money. If sky pulled the plug, umpteen sports and clubs would go bust in this country. Crazy players wages are financed by sky and foreign investment while clubs at the lower end of the scale are going bust and young kids cant even find decent facilities to play sport.We are all inbetween a rock and a hard place, we have to accept change, and we have to move forward because without the money to finance our club we could go the way of luton or chester.Maybe we should have done what the jacks done and go bankrupt twice to clear our debts, then start again with a limit on the finances.......but its too late for that now so we must just keep all the happy memories and move on with the manager and players hoping that the future of the club will at least be safe.For me the shirt and badge may be a different colour but the great friends and fans will be the same.
Time to move on money talks.

Very sensible post Mate and has you say football and many other sports are being taken away from the fans what is very sad about all this is how it is splitting and causing divisions in our fan base

Now i know how some fans feel and personally i hate the changes especially the badge and having supported City since 1969 i have thought long and hard but i can't walk away from the Club i love, but can understand and respect the decision of others who do so.

What i would say is players, managers and owners come and go the one thing that remains consistent and loyal is the fans we are still Cardiff City and we still play in Cardiff we will always be Bluebirds.

I wish Terry Matthews at the Celtic Manor was a ardent Bluebird because he's one of the few Welsh business men who could take our Club forward however unfortunately he's not. So we are stuck with the Malaysians and let's be honest without them we would be f*cked! You only have to think back 2 years when we were in court fighting off winding up orders from HMRC, creditors were everywhere and who can forget the Motherwell Chairman popping up on TV demanding money just after we had signed Bellamy.

It's ok saying we would have gone into administration wiped our debts and taken a points deduction but the reality is we would have been liquidated and that WOULD have meant no Cardiff City FC!

Yes we could have started again but under a different name and in the Welsh League with probably no way back into the Football League because we would no longer be Cardiff City and there is no way they would allow a newly formed Welsh Club to join the English pyramid.

Faced with that grim reality we have 2 choices and that is walk or stay with the Club you have always supported and if you want to make changes then do it constructively from within.

This is just another period in our proud history and never forget the heart beat of the Club is us has fans and personally i will always be a Bluebird.

So has i said i respect and understand those that want to walk away but please don't call me a sell out

very sensible

Great post. Angry Man dosent know what hes talking about thats quite the funny thing about reading his posts.

Great post. Angry Man dosent know what hes talking about thats quite the funny thing about reading his posts.

Thats because he's so angry