" Proposed changes the truth as I seen it "

Thank you all for your support and comments on here I am truly humbled. You the supporters give me the energy and desire to help the fans in whatever way I can I think you are all fantastic, I am in work at the moment so have to log off and get out and make sure the lads haven't sneaked home yet from site

Thanks for taking the time to write that Vince. Very informative and clearly shows that VT and TG were concerned that they did not want to upset anyone whilst, at the same time, try to take the club forward as best they can.

I have previously nailed my colours to the mast and posed the question "What is the point in having a history if you have no future?" I do not like the idea of playing in red. However that said, for me, it is a small price to pay for the ongoing success of our club.

The reason I took this view was simple.

At the present time we play 50% of our games in Blue. Going forward, if we change our home kit to red, we would still play 50% of our games in Blue - albeit at away grounds. Now I dont know whether others share my view on this but far more supporters wear their kits to away matches. When I am looking around the CCS I see the vast majority in their normal clothes.

The Bluebird is a name that will always stay with us and, as long as we have a Bluebird on our badge in some shape of form, we can continue to call ourselves the Bluebirds.

My final thought related to costs. Many of us are experiencing tough times financially. These are difficult times and very few know when it is going to get better. A club with no debt does not have to increase admission prices to break even - and therefore this could be a financial benefit for us as well.

Thanks again Vince.

Excellent, honest post Vince.

In a perfect world it would stay as us plus the 100m! As its not then I feel we have to roll with it. The way I reconcile it is that I first went to watch Cardiff City and they happened to play in blue. i didnt decide i wanted to support a team in blue and then looked for who was out there. The colour was irrelevant but of course the connection develops over time. Surely that will happen again with whatever colour we wear and the youngsters coming through will know no difference. With this deal the Club will outlast us all. Without it im not so sure.

I'll be honest and I have come to the same kind of conclusion.

Initially I was in utter disbelief, I never really believed it could happen. The main problem is the way this news was put out and then the awful statement from the club that said nothing.

I am against the change of colour and logo as a preference, however it's clear to see that this is now the only way for the club to go forward.

I'm for it. Yes we are Cardiff not Malaysia but our owner is Malaysian. He wouldn't just do it for the sake of it. Look at the Far East. Biggest support for Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal. All red kits. It's not a coincidence is it?

can you think of another reason they might be the biggest clubs out there ? i'll give you a clue, its not because they dont wear blue

Liverpool who haven't won anything for a while, arsenal even longer. Why aren't chelsea popular out there? They love red out there. It symbolises so many things to them.

Vince. That's a superb post. Many thanks. I agree with other posters in wondering how much or how well you could use your influence In communicating with Alan whitely and all that if needs must the Malaysians can do as proposed. Like you say, our identity remains the same and so does our history. Its how we go forward from this and let the Malaysians know we want this because we trust them.

I wonder if you can get any assembly member to speak on behalf of us to the board or local MP, someone with a profile or even welsh celebrity.....anyone really that will out the Malaysians back onside with us.

I think you should have resisted the temptation to consult with anyone until the plans for revamping of the club became public knowledge,quite frankly your inability to sleep at nights is neither here or there

Thanks for your post
Sometimes it can be a thankless task, especially spending many hours of your own time organising things for the benefit of us fans.
Just remember we all appreciate the work you put in for us

See Annis where in the past i have only bought the home kit i will now buy the home and away kit and quite frankly i could not be happier doing so.

Please show the board this kit design. It blew my mind. Best design ever. compromise that suits all.

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Thanks Vince.....that clarifys the situation of how it all come about.

I love the bluebirds, and our nickname means a lot to me, but I'm a great believer of rebranding out with the old and in with the new so to speak....I worked in fashion for years and things change (thank god).

I remember when Chelsea Girl rebranded and became River Island and it worked...I wonder what would have happened if Woolworths would have rebranded..

This has been a very eventful few days and hopefully not to damaging to the football club.

There has been a lot of debate during this period from the hysterical to almost docile views. Thankfully this appears to have calmed down now and supporters are debating in a civil manner.

I was informed of the proposed changes before many weeks ago here are the facts of how this news unfolded.

At the end of March I received a phone call from the football club asking if I could meet with a couple of them after work as they wanted to run some things by me to gauge my opinion as a fan not in my supporters club capacity. This was not unusual for me as I have been asked to do similar on several occasions in the past due to the fact if I am told to keep it a secret I do.

I turned up at the club late that evening to be met by Wayne Nash & Alan Whitley and then was told the following:

Vincent Tan was looking to move the club forward and wanted to invest heavy as he was now here for the long term. The investment would then lead him to be the major shareholder in the club which would rid the club of its debt, and he wanted to invest the money in the following ways:

• Rid the club of its historical debt agreeing settlements with its large creditors including PMG and langstone
• Increase the stadium capacity to 35,000 by adding a tier on the Ninian Stand
• Brand new state of the art training facilities to match the best in the world
• Increase funding to strengthen the playing squad to allow Malky to have a go at promotion to the premiership
• All the investment made to the club would then be turned into equity rather than saddle the club with debt (ala Man Utd, Chelsea) the investment would amount to around £100 million

So I asked what’s the catch?

• The kit would be changed from blue to Red
• The bluebird would be replaced by a dragon and also changed red
• The away kit would then be blue

Alan said those changes were fundamental to Vincent Tan investing into the club otherwise there would be no deal. I asked why? I was told that he sees the colour Red as a fusion of both cultures. The Red and Red dragon of Wales and the symbolic meaning of the colour red in Asia, accompanied with the possibility of major commercial advantages in the future for the football club were we successful regards merchandise sales in that region. If we did not agree to these changes he could not invest the money in the club which would leave us in a very precarious position.

After a deep breath and long pause I said don’t think you got anywhere to go with this I don’t like the change, I don’t want the change, but see no alternative the survival of the club always comes first. I was asked how I thought fans would take the news; I said there would be uproar from some quarters, and would probably lead to the odd petition and demonstration. Alan said they were looking to avoid that by managing how the news was broken so they outlined the clubs strategy as Follows:
• Already senior staff and board members had been told of the proposed changes
• Vincent Tan to conclude the deal with Langstone
• At the end of the season when ever that was going to be; firstly staff would be told of the proposed changes, then supporter groups, and then press

This information was going to be presented by TG himself along with board and senior club employees, with artist impressions and designs of the new stand, and training facilities where architects have already been employed to draw up the plans.

I was told to keep it to myself as it was still work in progress and the club were still looking to get some concession from Vincent Tan regards the changes to help soften the blow for supporters like retaining the bluebird on the badge. I asked about name changes, and Alan informed me that Vincent Tan had no desire to change the name or the nickname of the club either now or in the future.

I went away that evening and I couldn’t sleep I felt like if I agreed to this change I would be letting the club down, but then I would think well if we didn’t agree we would have no club to let down what comes first the future or the past? It was doing my head in, at one point I text Wayne Nash really angry and said sod it lets take the 15 points administration and start again, but as the hours tick past a more balanced view came through. I thought! Nobody can erase the history of the football club it’s always there! We’ve made changes before, and changed back a few years later why couldn’t that happen? Although it appeared to be at first a complete re-brand it wasn’t! We weren’t changing our name, our base! I grew to see the benefits and why we needed this investment to survive and compete with new football league rules coming in over wage caps to match the football income. Vincent Tan needed the kit to change to red; this was how he was going to re-coup his money in the Asian markets, and demonstrates to the football league income streams which would allow us to compete with the premier teams when relegated to the championship with their £40 million parachute payments in attracting good players to the club, instead of cutting wages by selling your top players and signing lesser players on lower wages. He was also not looking to saddle us with millions of pounds of debt like previous owners, like owners at other clubs also. I have also had the pleasure of meeting TG on several occasions and Vincent Tan on one occasion, and both are very honourable men who are very successful in business. After meeting them I said instantly I trust them to fellow supporters and colleagues. Unlike other owners of football clubs all their business can easily be found and recognised, they have been men of their word, I guess what I am trying to say they are real business’s we can identify every day of the week, so my position softened towards the change upon reflection of the above.

As time went on, and the launch date approached the burden got so much I spoke to the club and said I needed to share that burden and gauge the reaction of my colleagues on the supporter’s club committee. At a committee meeting the Wednesday before the home game of the West Ham play off semi final, against my better judgement (I’ve always been renowned for keeping a secret) I felt I needed to share this burden which was causing me to lose sleep, so I informed my committee member colleagues in confidence of the pending proposed investment, and changes. I said this information was not for the public domain, and needed to be kept between us because it was still work in progress, but the club were looking to propose to the supporters sometime after the play offs. The reaction of the committee was split one or two against any change, a couple in favour and said it bring it on, and the majority like myself by this time didn’t particular want to change the colour, and badge but would accept it for the future good of the club. So just like many of the supporters differing views about the proposed changes. The main reason I found it hard to carry that burden was the worry once the news was broken I would be on my own trying to keep supporters calm to encourage a period of reflection, and thought before making a judgement,. I could see many people reacting like I did when I was first told, which could lead to infighting and extreme rationale if it we didn’t try and manage supporter’s reactions, and guide them through with strong leadership carnage could prevail.

Unfortunately someone decided to leak the news straight after the final whistle at the return leg of the play off semi final against West Ham, which led to a very unsavoury 48hrs which is what I wanted to avoid. I do not seek to blame the person who leaked it as they thought they were doing it for the good of the club, but if they could have just resisted 2 weeks its my belief this would have all been dealt with in a more civil manner.

I apologise I couldn’t spend more time on the Messageboards, social media sites during the past 72hours trying to calm things down, but those of you who know me personally know I have been working 14-16 hour days, 7 days a week to get a new Health centre and Community centre completed for handover in Butetown this coming Monday. I did try but got abused the first evening although that was around midnight when I got home so perhaps one or two had been on the sauce so I forgive them.

Where we stand today is anyone guess! The only thing that is certain is the uncertainty. I re-iterate again in my opinion these are honourable men, they have sunk all that money in and not taken a penny out! They have real Business’s, what they are offering this football club is huge, and don’t come along everyday, many football clubs have changed badges and colours over the years, I was talking to a York City Fan they have had 3 colour changes in his time of supporting them, he also mentioned Salzburg who changed their kit to the sponsors colour Red Bull. Is it worth losing the football club for? They are asking for a colour change to the Home Kit and a badge change ask your self is that worth losing the club for?

• We are still Cardiff City FC the Bluebirds no identity change
• We still play in Cardiff no place change
• Nobody can erase our history ever

I hated it when CDs threatened Vinyl, I argued the case for months eventually I succumbed, now I listen to my music in all sorts of fashion, but I still have my history, my vinyl records limited colour editions, and LPs (albums to the youngsters) 7” and 12” pink vinyl squeeze single cool for cats, My red vinyl Damned etc occasionally give them an airing, along with my Cardiff city DVDs off past glories. I am a traditionalist, I hate everything football has become, I don’t like what the premier league is about, but I know the majority of you want to see us compete in the premier league at the highest level, and after reflection which I had the benefit of many of you didn’t, this was our best opportunity and my personal view would be to embrace this deal.

On such an emotional and emotive subject there is no way I could make the above comments on behalf of our 3000 members of the supporters club without having proper consultation first. These proposals were not a subject for any committee member to make public comments on behalf of its membership, and we from a committee perspective have steered cleared to date of doing that until we have all our ballot papers back. However you may have read quotes and posts from several of us giving our personal view as supporters. How could we give leadership and direction when the committee itself was split in opinion? We are elected to represent the supporters views and will do in a professional manner once our ballot is complete regardless of our own personal viewpoint.

I would like to thank you all for listening to us and calming down it has been much more pleasant reading on all the sites, we are a broad church and need to respect everyone view point even though it may differ from ours.


There is an old saying in war “you live to fight another day even if that means making sacrifices you don’t like” I am not saying this is a war but we need to survive.

Thank you once again

Grate post Vince, I am with you 100% on this, no one wants change for the sake of change, but what we are talking about here is our future, and our survival as a football club, this is an oppertunity to good to miss, and if we do, I fear we will regret it, as you pointed out, in a few years time it could all change back to where it is now, just hope that the damage isn't allready done
Vince Alm

As you know Vince, we both deep down feel the same way.

I accept that we have to have change other wise, we lose our investment which as we are £72 mill in debt we desperately need.

But that does not mean I agreed with all the original proposed changes and in my heart still dont with the new ones.

I never agreed with Sam on his badge change.

I am glad I spoke out about our Bluebird being taken off and loosing our nickname.

I am glad I spoke out against our colour change.

I want our Club to move forward, but I as a fan I can have my opinion. I will only be buying the away kits and thats my preference, I will continue to Support my club at matches home and away, that I will always do. I want the investment if it helps our club go to the Premiership.

Certain people are not letting people say their true feelings and we all should be allowed.
Please stop the name calling and belittling, we are all fans and should be allowed to say how we feel.

Now Annis that is the way to use your influence, well done!

Vince, never met you, but you seem to be a top guy and let's move forward

As you know Vince, we both deep down feel the same way.

I accept that we have to have change other wise, we lose our investment which as we are £72 mill in debt we desperately need.

But that does not mean I agreed with all the original proposed changes and in my heart still dont with the new ones.

I never agreed with Sam on his badge change.

I am glad I spoke out about our Bluebird being taken off and loosing our nickname.

I am glad I spoke out against our colour change.

I want our Club to move forward, but I as a fan I can have my opinion. I will only be buying the away kits and thats my preference, I will continue to Support my club at matches home and away, that I will always do. I want the investment if it helps our club go to the Premiership.

Certain people are not letting people say their true feelings and we all should be allowed.
Please stop the name calling and belittling, we are all fans and should be allowed to say how we feel.

I'm confused. What's the NEW proposals??

Never can i support the Club under the proposals given. And that they are Honorable well that is open to opinion. And your story is why i am 100% against fans leaders. You don't represent me only your own opinions.
But thanks for sharing what went on.

All I can say is it was really hard reading all those posts on my phone

Thank you Vince for sharing your views

I have to say I felt physically sick when I heard it, you change the nickname, traditional kit colour & badge effectivley you become a franchise. You may be able to do this with a non league side but a legue club with a proud history such as ourselves it is just not possible and not acceptable in my opinion

There is no way that I would ever purchase a red home shirt but I would never turn my back on the club I have supported since 1977 and season ticket holder for 18 years then the answer is no.

Football is an emotional game, a game of opinions not everyone is going to agree and the events earlier this week split the fans in away I have never seen before. It was a great shame that certain sections of our fans overstepped the mark resorting to abuse & threats.

Thankfully things have calmed down and we remain in blue, The news that Vincent Tan is paying the remaining £15000 to complete the long overdue Fred Keenor statue is hardly the action the man of looking to walk away. Hopefully next week we will have some positive news in relation to further investment.

Thankfully things have calmed down and we remain in blue

But do we remain in blue? Some people on this thread are talking about new proposals where things are up in the air again? What exactly is going on?

Thankfully things have calmed down and we remain in blue

But do we remain in blue? Some people on this thread are talking about new proposals where things are up in the air again? What exactly is going on?

Are We? I am going on the official statement from the club on Thursday that this red nonsence had been shelved

Annis' post said there were new proposals

Loose Lips sink Ships. ........

Loose Lips sink Ships. ........

Not spotting the Ice Berg sinks ships Chief

Those who want change are not sellouts. Just keep the same badge. and compromise. Bang heads together and brainstorm.
Don't bury your heads in the sand.

See the future and be bold and reasonable with ideas.

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Times they are changing!!!

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Thanks Vince, I think that the Malaysians need to be told we want our club to be secure and should that mean a colour change etc then so be it. It's a small price to pay for a massive investment and the future of our beloved club. Like many members on here, I remember the cold winter evenings on the bob bank in the 80's and 90's with a crowd of no more than 2000 watching teams like mansfield etc. Even though they are memories I want to keep, our club can not go back there and must accept the Malaysians offer.

I'm for it. Yes we are Cardiff not Malaysia but our owner is Malaysian. He wouldn't just do it for the sake of it. Look at the Far East. Biggest support for Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal. All red kits. It's not a coincidence is it?

can you think of another reason they might be the biggest clubs out there ? i'll give you a clue, its not because they dont wear blue

Liverpool who haven't won anything for a while, arsenal even longer. Why aren't chelsea popular out there? They love red out there. It symbolises so many things to them.

they are historically the most successful clubs

if man city win the league the next 10 years they'll sell loads of blue shirts in asia and everywhere else in the world

A compromise is needed in the meeting this week..No decision should be forced on any side. Any decision should be agreed by all parties that represent the view of the majority of the fans. This is the only way to move our club forward.

Jack in peace gents, (my old man is an exiled Bluebird ST holder) this is a horrible situation you have been put in and whilst it may be stating the obvious I feel that with level headed individuals like your man Vince I think you'll be fine, you really do all need to be singing from the same hymn sheet so to speak though. I remember going on the anti Tony Petty march and although many won't admit it now, at the time there were plenty of us who thought there wouldn't be a club to support, sorry for the sentimentality boys (i've had a few) but regardless of the rivalry we're all football fans and I wish you all the best. Here's to plenty more derby days in the future.

I'm for it. Yes we are Cardiff not Malaysia but our owner is Malaysian. He wouldn't just do it for the sake of it. Look at the Far East. Biggest support for Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal. All red kits. It's not a coincidence is it?

can you think of another reason they might be the biggest clubs out there ? i'll give you a clue, its not because they dont wear blue

Liverpool who haven't won anything for a while, arsenal even longer. Why aren't chelsea popular out there? They love red out there. It symbolises so many things to them.

they are historically the most successful clubs

if man city win the league the next 10 years they'll sell loads of blue shirts in asia and everywhere else in the world

Of course. Like many Cardiff Dragons Malaysia FC supporters, most middle class plastics just look glory. Before long they football league will be like the Super League and everyone will have daft names and franchises will move where the fans are and the by then Dragons FC will be rebranded Croydon Dragons FC and lots of people will look like sell-outs.