Actual discussion on red tops selling in Asia

Tonight I was walking with my neighbor who does a lot of business in China and is married to a Chinese woman. I brought up the topic of red shirts and dragon imagery in the context of rebranding my favorite "soccer" club. He immediately said that red shirts would sell much better than blue. The dragon would also be a popular draw, much more so than in any non-Asian country. Interestingly, he said the next thing they will start doing is putting the number 8 on everything since that is lucky in many parts of Asia.

I was surprised at how sure he was that the rebranding would be a success. This guy is not a fan of the game and gave an impartial take on how the rebranding would be received in Asia should the club decide to do so. He seemed genuinely excited about the potential of this rebranding and this guy didn't even know that Cardiff City existed until I told him what was going on. Maybe our billionaire business man owner knows a thing or two about making money...

Not taking sides or picking a fight, just thought I'd share the unbiased opinion of somebody who is knowledgeable in Asian culture and business.

I was talking to a Chinese customer earlier today and he said pretty much exactly what you said. Also having spent a fair bit of time in the far east it's obvious what an important cultural symbol the dragon is, far far more important than in Wales. It seems to me that VT has got his head screwed firmly on and can see that potential benefits for the club, it's just a shame that the leak prevented the club from properly presenting the idea to the fans.

Like most I would still much prefer blue, but we have to compromise and hope they will for the good of the club.

I was talking to a Chinese customer earlier today and he said pretty much exactly what you said. Also having spent a fair bit of time in the far east it's obvious what an important cultural symbol the dragon is, far far more important than in Wales. It seems to me that VT has got his head screwed firmly on and can see that potential benefits for the club, it's just a shame that the leak prevented the club from properly presenting the idea to the fans.

Like most I would still much prefer blue, but we have to compromise and hope they will for the good of the club.

TG and VT are megga rich for a reason.

I also spoke to a chinese man today, very pleasant man but he burnt my king prawns

if it was only as easy as this -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... tures.html

Easy? The American owners have changed the badge back to retro liver bird, and dropped the 2 justice flames which honour hillsborough victims. Liverpool fans going ape about it.

They haven't announced plans to play in blue yet though

The flames are still there, back of the collar fella.

Easy? The American owners have changed the badge back to retro liver bird, and dropped the 2 justice flames which honour hillsborough victims. Liverpool fans going ape about it.

They haven't announced plans to play in blue yet though

Liverpool sell 900,000 tops world wide We would be daft not to TRY and get a bit of that cash. We boviously won't get near that many but a doubling of sales may be possible with success.

Eye test time i think., i thought it said on sale in asda

I also spoke to a chinese man today, very pleasant man but he burnt my king prawns

hahaha

im all in favour for the change but i was thinking .... we will paying £40 for a shirt that would cost all of 20p to make in china

Easy? The American owners have changed the badge back to retro liver bird, and dropped the 2 justice flames which honour hillsborough victims. Liverpool fans going ape about it.

They haven't announced plans to play in blue yet though

Liverpool sell 900,000 tops world wide We would be daft not to TRY and get a bit of that cash. We boviously won't get near that many but a doubling of sales may be possible with success.

Some people are so deluded its untrue!

Football clubs make 25% margin on football jerseys with the rest going back to the supplier/manufacturer. We sell around 8,000 jerseys per year, netting us 160k profit - that is in a country that know who we are, have a major fan base in and regularly watch us play.

Why the hell would a Malaysian football fan decide not to support Man Utd and Liverpool and wait for a 2nd tier club that he has never heard of, cant watch, has never seen and decide to support them instead??! its f*cking deluded. If Dragons and red meant success then Wales would shift thousands of jerseys over there, how many asians have you seen wearing a wales top?

We would struggle to sell 5,000 over there and even if we did, which would be incredible, it would only net us 50k. THIS is why the business model makes no sense and there is far more to Tans interest than this - THAT is why we should be concerned.

Easy? The American owners have changed the badge back to retro liver bird, and dropped the 2 justice flames which honour hillsborough victims. Liverpool fans going ape about it.

They haven't announced plans to play in blue yet though

Liverpool sell 900,000 tops world wide We would be daft not to TRY and get a bit of that cash. We boviously won't get near that many but a doubling of sales may be possible with success.

Some people are so deluded its untrue!

Football clubs make 25% margin on football jerseys with the rest going back to the supplier/manufacturer. We sell around 8,000 jerseys per year, netting us 160k profit - that is in a country that know who we are, have a major fan base in and regularly watch us play.

Why the hell would a Malaysian football fan decide not to support Man Utd and Liverpool and wait for a 2nd tier club that he has never heard of, cant watch, has never seen and decide to support them instead??! its f*cking deluded. If Dragons and red meant success then Wales would shift thousands of jerseys over there, how many asians have you seen wearing a wales top?

We would struggle to sell 5,000 over there and even if we did, which would be incredible, it would only net us 50k. THIS is why the business model makes no sense and there is far more to Tans interest than this - THAT is why we should be concerned.

This is far and away the best post I have seen on the subject.

Should make it a thread of its own and made a sticky.

So deluded its untrue,

Not to mention the fact that the Malaysian home kit is yellow and black and the away one is blue and white with a miniscule amount of red on it....

Easy? The American owners have changed the badge back to retro liver bird, and dropped the 2 justice flames which honour hillsborough victims. Liverpool fans going ape about it.

They haven't announced plans to play in blue yet though

Liverpool sell 900,000 tops world wide We would be daft not to TRY and get a bit of that cash. We boviously won't get near that many but a doubling of sales may be possible with success.

Some people are so deluded its untrue!

Football clubs make 25% margin on football jerseys with the rest going back to the supplier/manufacturer. We sell around 8,000 jerseys per year, netting us 160k profit - that is in a country that know who we are, have a major fan base in and regularly watch us play.

Why the hell would a Malaysian football fan decide not to support Man Utd and Liverpool and wait for a 2nd tier club that he has never heard of, cant watch, has never seen and decide to support them instead??! its f*cking deluded. If Dragons and red meant success then Wales would shift thousands of jerseys over there, how many asians have you seen wearing a wales top?

We would struggle to sell 5,000 over there and even if we did, which would be incredible, it would only net us 50k. THIS is why the business model makes no sense and there is far more to Tans interest than this - THAT is why we should be concerned.

I disagree, VT wants us in the Premiership where we'll get a Hell of a lot more coverage in Asia and if Cardiff do well then sales of our shirts will shoot up over there. Common sense really.

Liverpool sell 350,000 shirts in Asia per year, thats on the back of them being world famous with a famous hostory including 5 champions league wins and are normaly up there challenging in the top 4.... that still only nets them 3.5 million. Its hardly a gold mine.

IF we get promoted, we will still be a side that pretty much nobody would have heard of. even if we get 10% that switch from Liverpool to us (still ridiculou figure buy hey lets go with it) then thats 35,000 sales - thats still only 350k profit.

It doesnt make sense. Sorry but it doesnt.

The scary thing is, the board is sold on this. They must think we are idots, and clearly the majority are without a business braincell between them.

Yet our club is being sold on it.

terrifying

Easy? The American owners have changed the badge back to retro liver bird, and dropped the 2 justice flames which honour hillsborough victims. Liverpool fans going ape about it.

They haven't announced plans to play in blue yet though

Liverpool sell 900,000 tops world wide We would be daft not to TRY and get a bit of that cash. We boviously won't get near that many but a doubling of sales may be possible with success.

Some people are so deluded its untrue!

Football clubs make 25% margin on football jerseys with the rest going back to the supplier/manufacturer. We sell around 8,000 jerseys per year, netting us 160k profit - that is in a country that know who we are, have a major fan base in and regularly watch us play.

Why the hell would a Malaysian football fan decide not to support Man Utd and Liverpool and wait for a 2nd tier club that he has never heard of, cant watch, has never seen and decide to support them instead??! its f*cking deluded. If Dragons and red meant success then Wales would shift thousands of jerseys over there, how many asians have you seen wearing a wales top?

We would struggle to sell 5,000 over there and even if we did, which would be incredible, it would only net us 50k. THIS is why the business model makes no sense and there is far more to Tans interest than this - THAT is why we should be concerned.

This sounds like a good post but it's just a load of guess work.

not guess work at all, I work in marketing.

It's a great post, but how do we know that the Malaysian's are only looking at the profit from shirt sales??? I think you have completely missed the point, I don't think it's all about the shirt colour.

I think you need to look at the bigger picture..I think Tan has all sorts revenue stream ideas on the back of the red dragon brand.

Liverpool sell 350,000 shirts in Asia per year, thats on the back of them being world famous with a famous hostory including 5 champions league wins and are normaly up there challenging in the top 4.... that still only nets them 3.5 million. Its hardly a gold mine.

IF we get promoted, we will still be a side that pretty much nobody would have heard of. even if we get 10% that switch from Liverpool to us (still ridiculou figure buy hey lets go with it) then thats 35,000 sales - thats still only 350k profit.

It doesnt make sense. Sorry but it doesnt.

Exactly and its for that very reason I am so excited about all this. This whole process can only be successful if we are not simply in the Premiership to make up the numbers but challenging for honours. There are a lot of people in Malaysia and that will be our main audience because we will be owned by Malaysians but China is a longer term aim. We have seen on our streets with more and more kids wearing City shirts rather than Liverpool and Man Utd shirts what effect success can bring. Success on a higher level is of course needed to change that overseas and VT is fully aware of that

We are one of two clubs owned by Malaysians, I think we are getting ahead of ourselves a bit. I think establishing a slice of the Malaysian market is what our owners are after.

It's a great post, but how do we know that the Malaysian's are only looking at the profit from shirt sales??? I think you have completely missed the point, I don't think it's all about the shirt colour.

I think you need to look at the bigger picture..I think Tan has all sorts revenue stream ideas on the back of the red dragon brand.

Think about it............ he is investing £100 million in a club that loses over a million a month, £13 million per year..... With the increased expenditure in players then im sure the wage bill will also go up if we are to get players of the quality to see us challenge, and anything above what we are paying this year in terms of wages goes straight on top of the shortfall so we could be looking at a shortfall of £17-£20 million + per year and that is just in the Championship.

Tan is a businessman and this business is not viable. Even if we get promotion and get the £40 million per year, it is still a horrible money losing business. Remember we are £20 million short per year anyway and thats without the cost of promotion in terms of bonuses, clauses in purchases contracts etc (usually around £8 million, that was the figure from both Swansea and Blackpool) that leaves £12 million which is what Swansea spent this year and is the average spend for a side outside the top 10, you have to spend that just to compete.... which then leaves us with nothing and at break even point.

Then we get to wages... the average wage bill outside the top 10 is around £25 million per annum which means anything above what we were paying the Championship then becomes pure loss which will leave us making a £15-£20 million loss per annum - we will be no better off and still heamoraging money.

Tan has an alterior motive and im not sure what it is, but im very worried.

Although its probably best to ignore this and continue giving our club away without even giving it a second thought, after all we are going to be massive and the biggest club in Asia and playing in the Champs league soon.

No wonder our board get shafted time after time, not a business brain between them. its embarassing, our fans I can sort of forgive. But our directors work for our club, its their job to understand these things but they clearly dont.

But hey lets all wear red, make signs and form an orderly queue to kiss Mr Tans picture being resurected as we speak in the CCS carpark

We deserve all we get.

Although its probably best to ignore this and continue giving our club away without even giving it a second thought, after all we are going to be massive and the biggest club in Asia and playing in the Champs league soon.

No wonder our board get shafted time after time, not a business brain between them. its embarassing, our fans I can sort of forgive. But our directors work for our club, its their job to understand these things but they clearly dont.

But hey lets all wear red, make signs and form an orderly queue to kiss Mr Tans picture being resurected as we speak in the CCS carpark

We deserve all we get.

Go on then

Give us your alternative plan.

Although its probably best to ignore this and continue giving our club away without even giving it a second thought, after all we are going to be massive and the biggest club in Asia and playing in the Champs league soon.

No wonder our board get shafted time after time, not a business brain between them. its embarassing, our fans I can sort of forgive. But our directors work for our club, its their job to understand these things but they clearly dont.

But hey lets all wear red, make signs and form an orderly queue to kiss Mr Tans picture being resurected as we speak in the CCS carpark

We deserve all we get.

Go on then

Give us your alternative plan.

Well first of all we must stop making a loss, we need to cut expenditure by £1 million a month. Get Whittingham, Earnie, Miller off the books which would cut it by 200k per month. With the transfer fee we get for them pay it straight off our debt meaning the repayments are smaller. Call in the players and explain the situation to them and try and get them to re-negotiate their contacts with a lower wage but with a promotion bonus exceeding any shortfall. This has been done at a few clubs and makes sense considering the players will know if they refuse then they risk getting nothing. There are many many ways to cut losses.

One is certianly not blowing all our investment on things we dont need and then going to get players commanding even bigger wages, nothing will change we will just keep making more and more losses and piling more and more debt on.

Unfortunately the problem with the sensible way is we will probably not b e challenging for promotion right away we would have to start from scratch and live within our means like Swansea, Bunley and Blackpool have done in recent years. Its a safe way forward, but as this week has shown our fans care more about the Premier League than Cardiff City.

No interest? Doesnt suprise me, wheres the fun if we arent gambling our future away right?

educated into silence it seems.

pathetic the amount of fans hiding behind the financial security of the club as a reason to support the Malaysians completely ignoring the fact that it will be worse and ore precarious.

The power of the plastic fan eh? Glimpses of superstars in exchange for future death of the club.

Although its probably best to ignore this and continue giving our club away without even giving it a second thought, after all we are going to be massive and the biggest club in Asia and playing in the Champs league soon.

No wonder our board get shafted time after time, not a business brain between them. its embarassing, our fans I can sort of forgive. But our directors work for our club, its their job to understand these things but they clearly dont.

But hey lets all wear red, make signs and form an orderly queue to kiss Mr Tans picture being resurected as we speak in the CCS carpark

We deserve all we get.

you are in marketing yes? well explain why he is going to put all money he as put in after paying sam ect about 100ml hes turning that into equity corect? well if my take on this is right he stands to lose 100ml as it is his debt not clubs! so you are right must be something else in mind but you dont know what it is and so you are scare mungering indecating he will do this do that without having a clue what his intentions are also do you know as much about marketing as he does particulaly in asia? nooooooo so keep to subjects you do have knowledge about, and dont start speculating that he wil destroy city because you dont have any idea what will happen, all you do know is city cannot trade in way they are doing so but then even i know that! guess you would rather city went into admin play in some god forgotten league and watch from afar saying this is great isnt it!!