" SURELY IT CANNOT CONTINUE AS IT IS? "

thank you steve borley for coming on here this thread is a f*cking disgrace get a life and let the people at the club run the club.....

Carl how about the money coming in? I'm talking revenue (not VT's pocket) surely this will lower the mentioned debt?

I believe that when Sam got us into this mess in the first place, the club should have bitten the bullet and gone into administration to wipe out the debt, to once and for all get Sam off our back he is a leach who bled the club dry. That is my opinion

The top and bottom of it is that VT and TG are continuing to invest in our club and have said they are in it for the long haul. Why are they continuing to invest? who knows? They obviously know why, because they continue to bankroll us. Somewhere along the way they see a return on their investment coming back to them. Where that return is who knows? However I suspect it may have something to do with the gambling industry. Their profit will not be made over here with our football club but back in Malaysia and the far east. VT has quit as chairman of his multi billion pound empire (Berjaya) to concentrate on Cardiff City that should tell everyone all they need to know. This genius of a businessman obviously sees a massive opportunity.

Not one of the statements regarding VT stepping down is CCFC mentioned. He is stepping down to concentrate on charitable projects. He also announced he will be giving away half of his fortune.

carl are you saying that your inside info you have been posting for months has been coming from steve davies via steve borley?? or am i getting confused

carl are you saying that your inside info you have been posting for months has been coming from steve davies via steve borley?? or am i getting confused

Not one of the statements regarding VT stepping down is CCFC mentioned. He is stepping down to concentrate on charitable projects. He also announced he will be giving away half of his fortune.

Watch this space then, see what happens shortly

If anyone else had asked this question i don't think it would have got more than one or two page reply's, but because Carl asked it , most people are baying for his blood, I wonder in after thought Carl wished he had never brought it up. but doesn't he have the right to ask questions like anybody else, OK the timing was wrong, but that is a mistake not a hanging offence, give the guy a break , we have all enjoyed his up dates on here, whether they turn out to be the way we want them or not, if he dissapeared off the Forum he would hace criicism for that, so lets just calm down we don;t need to be arguing amongst each other after sunday, lets just get it on for Sunday.

carl are you saying that your inside info you have been posting for months has been coming from steve davies via steve borley?? or am i getting confused

Well not too sure if that is the path but reading this thread it seems to me that Steve Davies told Carl about the £1.2 million every month fact. Well I know Carl and he is a guy that would not lie so although I take his updates with a pinch of salt I can well believe this fact.

So now we know this fact as fact I will return to the pinch of salt mode. I am having difficulty believing this £1.2 million value. Our wage bill is £20 million, that is well believeable, most likely includes a few other costs. So this extra £1.2 million is knocking our operating costs up to £35 million. That I am struggling to believe.

So my question to Steve Davies are these:

1. Did you tell Carl this £1.2 million fact?

2. If you did then how come it is that high when we have got rid of a number of our high wages?

Your missing the piont, the £24million due to sam will never be paid, the rest of the cash will be paid off, if and when we get to the premiership. other debts will also be reduced or Writen off over time.

The problem with that is of course, if you ever get to the Prem, your outgoings will shoot up massively thereby negating most of the increases in income.

You only have to look at the financial plight of many Prem clubs to see it's not the golden egg laying goose it's made out to be.

100% agree with this. The only way you can make money from the prem is if you're a club that had no visions of getting promotion and has been working as a lower championship/higher league 1 club and didn't bother putting prem clauses into the player contracts.

well atleast you now know how to do it, when you go out of business make sure you tell your new club this.

Well to start off with, I regularly follow this forum, however I have never posted due to it seeming as though a persons opinion is not really welcome here unless it is of the opinion that the updates etc are all spot on!

The Fact that one of our directors has had to come on here to defend himself here due to this thread is completely outrageous. At the end of the day we are all mere football supporters, so posting a topic so disheartening and putting the dampers on everything just days after one of the best performance I've ever whitnessed from our lads.

Carl, why cant you just celebrate like the rest of us on our acheivement? I would agree, that IF and only IF these figures were 100% fact, then it would be a cause for concern but after reading this thread, it seems that these claims are mere hearsay, nothing more nothing less.

Was there any specific reason for posting a thread like this with supposed "Facts" on the debt amounts a day before the accounts were released?

Your going on about the debt but I havent seen any ideas on solutions? As I said, we are mere football fans, I have every faith in the Malaysians, I have no reason to doubt them, Im sure they know exactly what the situation is at our club, and are doing everything they can, I really cant see that our costs are as high as this thread suggests to be honest. Time will tell.

For know, I, like most of us bluebirds, will just enjoy the ride!

We can all bury our heads in the sand all we like - Carl is right to bring this up as it is a massive worry. It's no good SB blaming the tooth fairy, just answer plain YES or f*cking NO.

The way I see it is that 'investment' is still lending and I've no doubt that we are much deeper in the shit today than we were before the Malaysians showed up as we are still living beyond our means - the fact that they are not winding us up is only due to them wanting a return on us eventually getting to the Premier League.

They are business men who do not give money away - much the same as the much maligned (by some) Sam Hamman who once save the club from oblivion??

For me, another Wembley day out, ultimately ending in defeat, does not gloss over how perilous our predicament is. A foreigner in a City Scarf is a worry to me has he can get on a plane at any time and disappear.

We can all bury our heads in the sand all we like - Carl is right to bring this up as it is a massive worry. It's no good SB blaming the tooth fairy, just answer plain YES or f*cking NO.

The way I see it is that 'investment' is still lending and I've no doubt that we are much deeper in the shit today than we were before the Malaysians showed up as we are still living beyond our means - the fact that they are not winding us up is only due to them wanting a return on us eventually getting to the Premier League.

They are business men who do not give money away - much the same as the much maligned (by some) Sam Hamman who once save the club from oblivion??

For me, another Wembley day out, ultimately ending in defeat, does not gloss over how perilous our predicament is. A foreigner in a City Scarf is a worry to me has he can get on a plane at any time and disappear.

Much sense in here.

I don't doubt Steve Borley's intentions towards CCFC - could anybody? There are questions that need answered though, just like when Ridsdale was at the top table and as when Sam was too.

If SB did say such things then it is clear to me why he would deny it. I'm not saying he did say them, just that you can see why he would take such a stance if he had.

I like to think I know Carl well enough to know that he wouldn't come on here and say such things without substance. It would be good if Steve davies could come on and put the record straight from his point of view.

People can argue the toss over the timing of this or anything else, but it is clear there is a lot of financial questions hanging over the club that need answered.

To be honest i have just read the whole thread currently 7 pages and after all that all i am interested in is 3 points Sunday and hopefully another 14 performances like we put in against Liverpool and potential promotion

Am i concerned about our finances........... yes but there's nothing i can do about it and at the moment i don't see any other option to the Malaysians who IMHO seem to be doing a pretty good job but if there is a Billionaire out there who loves Cardiff City and wants to wipe all our debts out and invest millions into the Club then i will welcome him with open arms

To be honest i have just read the whole thread currently 7 pages and after all that all i am interested in is 3 points Sunday and hopefully another 14 performances like we put in against Liverpool and potential promotion

Am i concerned about our finances........... yes but there's nothing i can do about it and at the moment i don't see any other option to the Malaysians who IMHO seem to be doing a pretty good job but if there is a Billionaire out there who loves Cardiff City and wants to wipe all our debts out and invest millions into the Club then i will welcome him with open arms

Spot on Blueheaven as fans we should be looking to affect what when can and as fans that means supporting the team.

Ultimately the rest will take care of itself.

People are flabagasted that Steve Borley came onto this forum to disagree on certain things with Carl, but should we be that surprised these days, this forum is similar to twitter in many respects, in that it gives our club the opportunity to see what's it fans are discussing and what their opinions are on various topics.

Now I know that last night was an extreme example of the above, but obviously some things discussed are gonna touch a nerve with someone and warrant a response. Maybe Carl's comments were not best timed but as for the board communicating with the fans via this forum....I'm not that surprised, it's the way life's going.


STEVE BORLEY REPLIES THE FOLLOWING DAY
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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73627

Carl

in case you missed it first time round, do you think the clubs running costs are £35m per annum? I have arrived at this figure using an estimate of £20m turnover and the £15m you reckon VT needs to put in to cover the shortfall each year.

Damien,this is from VT's statement today :

'Going forward, Cardiff City is expecting a cash injection in the amount of £35 million to meet its financial obligations for the period from now until May 2013'

Is that the answer you wanted from me, better still you got it from the man himself !

You could not borrow enough to buy a tripe supper on the security of a certain piece of paper

That's one expensive trip supper Steve, VT is offering £10m to buy it.

This thread is from the end of February in case anyone has not noticed or remembers it.

Footnall club has debt shocker

I think youl Find that most clubs have large debt

I prefer to look at it as equity Release

THe club is probably worth 70 million and we owe 72 million
If we get to teh Premier and build the club in Europe and Asia -38000 regulars in eth premier --then it sworth 150 million

Im just not sweating --if the Malaysians pull out some other johny foreigners will buy the club and take on the debt

Footnall club has debt shocker

I think youl Find that most clubs have large debt

I prefer to look at it as equity Release

THe club is probably worth 70 million and we owe 72 million
If we get to teh Premier and build the club in Europe and Asia -38000 regulars in eth premier --then it sworth 150 million

Im just not sweating --if the Malaysians pull out some other johny foreigners will buy the club and take on the debt

a very simplistic view It's how they manage the debt is the key, to say someone else will come in just like that ,who? look at the Venkys at Blackburn

Footnall club has debt shocker

I think youl Find that most clubs have large debt

I prefer to look at it as equity Release

THe club is probably worth 70 million and we owe 72 million
If we get to teh Premier and build the club in Europe and Asia -38000 regulars in eth premier --then it sworth 150 million

Im just not sweating --if the Malaysians pull out some other johny foreigners will buy the club and take on the debt

You need to be more realistic, lad.

So the club needs to find another 13000 plastics if we get to the Premier League.. , wages go through the roof and so does the cost of players the club needs to buy to stay in the Prem.

Its widely reported that getting promoted to the Premier League earns a club £90 million even if the club gets relegated in a year. CCFC would need to get there and stay there for 2-3 years just to wipe the debt out. The consequences of failing to get promoted each season are horrendous.......

Carl

May I say 'well done' for bringing this up. I have constantly been banging the drum about this issue because I am so worried but people take it like a pinch of salt which is even more concerning.

Like it or not the debt has multiplied in recent times due to bad management and using the financial mindset of Ed Balls which is 'borrow and spend' is simply wrong!!!

The well run clubs at this level all have a wage cap in place and 'some' have still got promoted so why can't that be put in place here..? Millar £25k per week, Earnie £13k per week and it goes on!!! Plain and simple bad management and someone should take responsibility for it.

Once again 'WELL DONE CARL!!!!'

Carl

May I say 'well done' for bringing this up. I have constantly been banging the drum about this issue because I am so worried but people take it like a pinch of salt which is even more concerning.

Like it or not the debt has multiplied in recent times due to bad management and using the financial mindset of Ed Balls which is 'borrow and spend' is simply wrong!!!

The well run clubs at this level all have a wage cap in place and 'some' have still got promoted so why can't that be put in place here..? Millar £25k per week, Earnie £13k per week and it goes on!!! Plain and simple bad management and someone should take responsibility for it.

Once again 'WELL DONE CARL!!!!'

Sometimes Adam it takes time for truth to come out and in this thread two people in particular questioned the figures I was using but just a few months on and it is there confirmed by accounts and Vincent Tan.

Some may feel a little embarrassed right now, especially those who are the closet to the club, imagine saying the paper it is written on couldnt raise enough money to buy a tripe supper, then your boss offers £10m and a life presidency with a warm welcome to buy that 'certain bit of paper'.

Classic moment

But we are still carrying on carl the same as your thread headline nothings changed, we still bumping up loans

I wouldn't rob a bank

Jinks, sometimes you have to bite back.

Did you notice how quick Steve Borley appeared on this thread.

on one hand you say you need to bite back, but then you question why SB would appear on this thread defending what he believes to be incorrect statements. Your position is an oxymoron.

No need for personal insults

But we are still carrying on carl the same as your thread headline nothings changed, we still bumping up loans

Ah but there is a plan, I was saying in Feb we couldnt continue as we are, now there are plans to settle Langston and then turn all debt to equity, in Feb we never knew of this plan.

But we are still carrying on carl the same as your thread headline nothings changed, we still bumping up loans

Ah but there is a plan, I was saying in Feb we couldnt continue as we are, now there are plans to settle Langston and then turn all debt to equity, in Feb we never knew of this plan.

I would like to think theres always been a plan tbh, The way i see it is we are no better off, we have done a full rebrand which will come sooner or later with seats ect for more loans as we stand rite now. We was told the investment will go on after LANGSTON was settled then VT will turn it in to equity but now we are being proped up with loans again. Does not make any sence.

But we are still carrying on carl the same as your thread headline nothings changed, we still bumping up loans

Ah but there is a plan, I was saying in Feb we couldnt continue as we are, now there are plans to settle Langston and then turn all debt to equity, in Feb we never knew of this plan.

This is something that is slightly baffling. By this time next year you'll be debt to the Malaysians to the tune of £75m if you don't include the training ground & extra seating.

They bought 40% of the club for £6m. Why would they need, or for that matter want, to turn all that debt into equity? They don't need to in order to gain complete control of the club.

In fact, they only need to turn a small amount of it into equity to gain complete control and keep the rest as debt and charge the club 7% interest on it which would be a nice little earner.

Unless I'm missing something which if I am, I'm sure you'll point out.