" Dave Jones VS Malky Mackay "
Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:50 pm
I know to a good degree this has already been done and a lot of people are not happy with drawing on comparisons between the two, but lately i've been thinking about their strengths and weaknesses and this is by no means and exhaustive study of the two and i'm very much open for people to add and take away from it but i just thought it would be interesting. (again, maybe i'm wrong)
Firstly, i'll start with Dave Jones. Despite his many critics, on the whole i think his time here was a success. He came at a time when though we were on an upward curve, managers like Gould, Cork and Lawrence left a lot of room for improvement. In his first few years as manager i thought he did a grand job and has to be credited for many great signings. Loovens, Johnson, Chopra, Mccormack, Koumas, Bothroyd, Whitts just to name a few were cracking acquisitions of the quality i thought i'd never see at this club. Dont get me wrong there were some duds even in the early days, Jason Byrne, Eddie, Dennehy etc but on the whole his signings were very much above average IMO.
Tactically Dave Jones was always a little suspect to say the least. 4-4-2 was often the only system he knew and when he did go 4-5-1 he didnt seem able to change it back during a game. His substitutions never seemed to have any impact on the game if they came at all. (and i'll never forgive him for bringing on etuhu in the play off final while mccormack was on the bench!)
When it comes to budget, in truth i think when people talk about how much money jones spent it has been greatly over exaggerated. Granted he had far more money than malky but in turn he had nowhere near the money West Ham and Leicester have spent this year. The only player i can remember Jones spending really big on was Chopra (excluding signing on fees for Fowler, JFH etc which i believe was down to the riddler!)
When it comes to motivation, i think Jones is down the league table with Sven and Roy hodgson and it's fair to say he's hardly Bill Shankly.
Dave Jones biggest problem as far as i'm concerned was his stubborness, arrogance and failure to see the importance of getting the fans on board. He failed to adapt to modern football and his rigid belief in himself (not in a good way) were often the things that tripped him up. He didnt seem able to leave a grudge in the past and maybe if he could the inclusion of Gerrard and Mccormack in the play off final would have seen us playing premier league football. His disregard of the fans is something i cant get my head around. Would it have really hurt to say now and then "Cardiff fans are the most passionate i've ever seen" or "beating Swansea is imperative for the fans and players etc" despite what we may think, i'm sure malky plays up to the fans a bit and i dont blame him cos it works and us fans will forgive a lot if we think the manager appreciates us.
On the whole i think Jones started well but definitely seemed to get lazy the longer he was here. i went to watch the players train a few times in the last 2 years and believe me it was quite embarrassing and honestly no different to your average welsh league training session!
When it comes to Malky i think it's fair to say we are still in the honeymoon period but nevertheless the job he has done so far is nothing short of extraordinary.
It has been well documented how little he had here in terms of players when he arrived but that article in todays sunday mail highlights how much really needed to be done. Jones went along way, pushing for us to get proper training facilities but obviously nowhere near far enough.
The quick but thorough revamp of the recruitment and sport science along with a overhaul of the first team has unbelievable and just underlines how hard he and his team are working to succeed.
Tactically we have seen more in 5 months than we saw in 6 years from jones. We have seen flat 4-4-2, 4-4-2 daimond, 4-5-1,
4-3-3. Our midfield has been incredibly fluid and it seems like every game different players are asked told while others support Kenny. His substitutions have often bore fruit. (most notably rudy vs west ham)
When it comes to motivation it truly does seem like the players are willing to run through walls for the blue shirt this year and again this is in complete contrast to last year. The never say die atitude and failure to know when they are beat are credit to both malky's recruitment policy as well as his motivational skills. When you listen to Malky's interviews it does seem that it's impossible not to be inspired by him. Everything he says seems to fill me with confidence.
When it comes to his relationship with the fans, this is perhaps the biggest contrast with his predecessor. Again in 5 months there is more of a bond between malky and the fans than there ever was between jones and us!
Another big change is training. I have watched training and everything is modern and the intensity is incredible and nothing is left to chance.
When it comes to weaknesses it's hard to find many so far in malky. Perhaps some could argue his refusal to sign players with a bit of attitude will always leaving us lacking those players with that x factor.
Watford fans spoke about his inability to make substitutions and though yesterday i was craving to see him bring on earnshaw at 2-2 he proved me wrong yet again.
Perhaps my biggest fear is that one day he will do to us what he did to Watford and take everybody including the tea lady on to his next club but time will tell.
Summing up i think Dave Jones wasn't as bad as some would lead us to believe but without doubt (in my mind) Malky is a manager on a whole new level.
Firstly, i'll start with Dave Jones. Despite his many critics, on the whole i think his time here was a success. He came at a time when though we were on an upward curve, managers like Gould, Cork and Lawrence left a lot of room for improvement. In his first few years as manager i thought he did a grand job and has to be credited for many great signings. Loovens, Johnson, Chopra, Mccormack, Koumas, Bothroyd, Whitts just to name a few were cracking acquisitions of the quality i thought i'd never see at this club. Dont get me wrong there were some duds even in the early days, Jason Byrne, Eddie, Dennehy etc but on the whole his signings were very much above average IMO.
Tactically Dave Jones was always a little suspect to say the least. 4-4-2 was often the only system he knew and when he did go 4-5-1 he didnt seem able to change it back during a game. His substitutions never seemed to have any impact on the game if they came at all. (and i'll never forgive him for bringing on etuhu in the play off final while mccormack was on the bench!)
When it comes to budget, in truth i think when people talk about how much money jones spent it has been greatly over exaggerated. Granted he had far more money than malky but in turn he had nowhere near the money West Ham and Leicester have spent this year. The only player i can remember Jones spending really big on was Chopra (excluding signing on fees for Fowler, JFH etc which i believe was down to the riddler!)
When it comes to motivation, i think Jones is down the league table with Sven and Roy hodgson and it's fair to say he's hardly Bill Shankly.
Dave Jones biggest problem as far as i'm concerned was his stubborness, arrogance and failure to see the importance of getting the fans on board. He failed to adapt to modern football and his rigid belief in himself (not in a good way) were often the things that tripped him up. He didnt seem able to leave a grudge in the past and maybe if he could the inclusion of Gerrard and Mccormack in the play off final would have seen us playing premier league football. His disregard of the fans is something i cant get my head around. Would it have really hurt to say now and then "Cardiff fans are the most passionate i've ever seen" or "beating Swansea is imperative for the fans and players etc" despite what we may think, i'm sure malky plays up to the fans a bit and i dont blame him cos it works and us fans will forgive a lot if we think the manager appreciates us.
On the whole i think Jones started well but definitely seemed to get lazy the longer he was here. i went to watch the players train a few times in the last 2 years and believe me it was quite embarrassing and honestly no different to your average welsh league training session!
When it comes to Malky i think it's fair to say we are still in the honeymoon period but nevertheless the job he has done so far is nothing short of extraordinary.
It has been well documented how little he had here in terms of players when he arrived but that article in todays sunday mail highlights how much really needed to be done. Jones went along way, pushing for us to get proper training facilities but obviously nowhere near far enough.
The quick but thorough revamp of the recruitment and sport science along with a overhaul of the first team has unbelievable and just underlines how hard he and his team are working to succeed.
Tactically we have seen more in 5 months than we saw in 6 years from jones. We have seen flat 4-4-2, 4-4-2 daimond, 4-5-1,
4-3-3. Our midfield has been incredibly fluid and it seems like every game different players are asked told while others support Kenny. His substitutions have often bore fruit. (most notably rudy vs west ham)
When it comes to motivation it truly does seem like the players are willing to run through walls for the blue shirt this year and again this is in complete contrast to last year. The never say die atitude and failure to know when they are beat are credit to both malky's recruitment policy as well as his motivational skills. When you listen to Malky's interviews it does seem that it's impossible not to be inspired by him. Everything he says seems to fill me with confidence.
When it comes to his relationship with the fans, this is perhaps the biggest contrast with his predecessor. Again in 5 months there is more of a bond between malky and the fans than there ever was between jones and us!
Another big change is training. I have watched training and everything is modern and the intensity is incredible and nothing is left to chance.
When it comes to weaknesses it's hard to find many so far in malky. Perhaps some could argue his refusal to sign players with a bit of attitude will always leaving us lacking those players with that x factor.
Watford fans spoke about his inability to make substitutions and though yesterday i was craving to see him bring on earnshaw at 2-2 he proved me wrong yet again.
Perhaps my biggest fear is that one day he will do to us what he did to Watford and take everybody including the tea lady on to his next club but time will tell.
Summing up i think Dave Jones wasn't as bad as some would lead us to believe but without doubt (in my mind) Malky is a manager on a whole new level.
Re: " Dave Jones VS Malky Mackay "
Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:59 pm
Why can't people leave Dave Jones in the past?? 
Re: " Dave Jones VS Malky Mackay "
Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:08 pm
Bluebird99 wrote:Why can't people leave Dave Jones in the past??
What is a football club without its past.......
Re: " Dave Jones VS Malky Mackay "
Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:11 pm
Bluebird99 wrote:Why can't people leave Dave Jones in the past??
It wasn't intended to be a dig at jones, but more an appreciation of malky
Re: " Dave Jones VS Malky Mackay "
Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:21 pm
Good reflection that is fair play and to you that posted about leaving DJ in the past, everyone are entitled to their own thoughts and opinions no matter what it concerns, this is a football board and more to the point a Cardiff City board and this post is Cardiff City related.
In honesty though, there is no comparing DJ to Malky, Malky is 100000 times better, has a plan B when Plan A don't work, tries a different setup if things don't work out from time to time, where as with DJ it was a simple 4-4-2 and certain players weren't playing well but still playing nevertheless week in week out I.E Mcphail at Ninian Park, although this player in particular in my opinion has come on leaps and bounds, bad performances under Malky mean a chance for someone else to step in despite us not having the biggest of squads.
MALKY'S BLUE AND WHITE ARMY
In honesty though, there is no comparing DJ to Malky, Malky is 100000 times better, has a plan B when Plan A don't work, tries a different setup if things don't work out from time to time, where as with DJ it was a simple 4-4-2 and certain players weren't playing well but still playing nevertheless week in week out I.E Mcphail at Ninian Park, although this player in particular in my opinion has come on leaps and bounds, bad performances under Malky mean a chance for someone else to step in despite us not having the biggest of squads.
MALKY'S BLUE AND WHITE ARMY
Re: " Dave Jones VS Malky Mackay "
Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:25 pm
Bluebird99 wrote:Why can't people leave Dave Jones in the past??
How can you possibly leave the fat prick in the past when the club are CURRENTLY paying the tw*t £20,000 a week!!
Come on Steve, we can debate this til the cows come home mate, especially when poor Malky is suffering to get funds for transfers whilst getting paid less than what half of what jones IS on!!!
Re: " Dave Jones VS Malky Mackay "
Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:31 pm
Merlin wrote:Bluebird99 wrote:Why can't people leave Dave Jones in the past??
How can you possibly leave the fat prick in the past when the club are CURRENTLY paying the tw*t £20,000 a week!!
Come on Steve, we can debate this til the cows come home mate, especially when poor Malky is suffering to get funds for transfers whilst getting paid less than what half of what jones IS on!!!
Shocking we're still paying DJ, especially in a short space of time the job Malky has done, he's created such a bond with the fans though and you can tell that he loves us as much as we love him in my opinion, he's a football man and in my opinion he's here because he loves the club/fans and everything that goes with that, unlike DJ who couldn't give a shit about the fans, never ever did I see DJ with the passion Malky has. He's not here for the money!
Re: " Dave Jones VS Malky Mackay "
Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:20 pm
Seeing as everyone is having a Jones v Malky battle I thought i'd throw this one in here as well.
Something Dai Towler of MTDB had a quick word with Psycho about!
JASON PERRY ON DAVE JONES:
Tactically, I thought he was naive, many games you would see that the opposition was on top, and the substitutions were alike! Which is different to Malky. But you have to say, a certain level he was very successful and he bought a decent side, so I think If he should walk onto the pitch, then Cardiff fans should give him a reception to thank him for what he's done - But he's not my cup of tea.
JASON PERRY ON MALKY MACKAY:
Yes, he kicks every ball, but he is at a level where he is in control. He doesn't get hysterical so that he cant see the bigger picture, and he's isn't down beat where he can't get into his team. What he does extremely well is encourage his players to press and encourages them to do things that they work hard at on the training field. He sees what's happening in front of him, he sees the bigger picture and spots the weaknesses in the opposition and he knows where he needs to make changes in his side so he can take advantage of that.
Something Dai Towler of MTDB had a quick word with Psycho about!
JASON PERRY ON DAVE JONES:
Tactically, I thought he was naive, many games you would see that the opposition was on top, and the substitutions were alike! Which is different to Malky. But you have to say, a certain level he was very successful and he bought a decent side, so I think If he should walk onto the pitch, then Cardiff fans should give him a reception to thank him for what he's done - But he's not my cup of tea.
JASON PERRY ON MALKY MACKAY:
Yes, he kicks every ball, but he is at a level where he is in control. He doesn't get hysterical so that he cant see the bigger picture, and he's isn't down beat where he can't get into his team. What he does extremely well is encourage his players to press and encourages them to do things that they work hard at on the training field. He sees what's happening in front of him, he sees the bigger picture and spots the weaknesses in the opposition and he knows where he needs to make changes in his side so he can take advantage of that.
Re: " Dave Jones VS Malky Mackay "
Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:17 pm
^I got this info from the CCFCST leaflet at the stadium! It cost me £1 the robbing bastards!^ 
Re: " Dave Jones VS Malky Mackay "
Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:19 pm
I think it's silly to try and judge them now.
Let's see in 6 years time.
In the end it was time for DJ to move on and the right manager brought in.
Let's see in 6 years time.
In the end it was time for DJ to move on and the right manager brought in.