Tony Frenandez and Vinvent Tan

Just a Thought and I don't know how Malaysian Culture Works.

As Tony Fenandez has just pledged millions to QPR.Will that prod Vincent Tan into spending his money ?

Malaysian One Upmanship as it were,

Fernandez was on the radio this morning saying that QPR would have to leave Loftus Road to maintain his ambition.

Any thoughts from anybody (even Daya if he's not banned)

Thing is qpr are already promoted and they hvent spent. So ferandes can spend that income and look like a savour.

We are in massive debt and IMO we must stick to our budget. Haven't we learned after Sam and PR, however it's spent we will still owe that money.

Totally agree 2blue

and no matter how much we claw back,

we will always be in debt,

hamman opened a black hole

Most clubs are in debt but If we stick to a budget unlike under sam and PR then the debt is manageable.

The land Loftus road is on is worth a fortune. Fernandez may splash the cash on players to look like a saviour (despite admitting that he is a West Ham nut) and then sell the ground, cash in then sell the club which would be in Staines by this time.

I hope Tan has a massive ego though and donates us 50 mil to spend on players without adding tot he debt of our f*cking magic club. I remember when we were in the fourth division (IOM) and not uinderstanding how the likes of Shrewsbury and Tranmere could be in Division Two (IOM) yet a city the size of Cardiff could only manage a team in the basement. How times have changed. I love being in the Championship and although I would like to see us in the Premiership, I am still happy to watch us play good football against good team in the Championship without going bust or getting relegated embarrasingly from the premiership like Swansea who will end up conceding over a hundred goals and fail to win more than 30 league points.

The land Loftus road is on is worth a fortune. Fernandez may splash the cash on players to look like a saviour (despite admitting that he is a West Ham nut) and then sell the ground, cash in then sell the club which would be in Staines by this time.

I hope Tan has a massive ego though and donates us 50 mil to spend on players without adding tot he debt of our f*cking magic club. I remember when we were in the fourth division (IOM) and not uinderstanding how the likes of Shrewsbury and Tranmere could be in Division Two (IOM) yet a city the size of Cardiff could only manage a team in the basement. How times have changed. I love being in the Championship and although I would like to see us in the Premiership, I am still happy to watch us play good football against good team in the Championship without going bust or getting relegated embarrasingly from the premiership like Swansea who will end up conceding over a hundred goals and fail to win more than 30 league points.

Yeah, after all spending OTT money of wages, assembling individuals really worked for DJ. Why it soared us on to win the CL...

Of course, Tan et al will give us 50m wanting nothing in return. It's how sucessful businessmen remain successful. Or become bankrupt, one of the two...

Nerd, did you really think that I was under the impression that he would give us 50 mill for free? I wasn't happy with spending money on wages that we didn't have. I am against going into debt and risking the club. Although I love seeing us in the Championship I still enjoyed watching us in the basement. I'd rather be shit with a safe and secure future than in the Premier League paying for players we cannot afford. My who point of my sarcy post was to have a bit of a dig at local multimillionares for not loving our club as much as we do and refusing to help us out. For fucks sake, even when we were in the basement nobody gave a shit apart from the likes of Borley who was a cardiff fan.

Most foreign investment ends in debt and/or tears. I am hopeful that these Malasians are top businessmen and will makie a profitable business out fo Cardiff City and that we can eventually manage to run within our means but at a higher level playing entertaining football. If Stoke can do it then surely we can. Not that I'm saying they play great football or anything, they just seem to spend quite wisely and peform quite well. I don't know their debt situation though.

Nerd, did you really think that I was under the impression that he would give us 50 mill for free? I wasn't happy with spending money on wages that we didn't have. I am against going into debt and risking the club. Although I love seeing us in the Championship I still enjoyed watching us in the basement. I'd rather be shit with a safe and secure future than in the Premier League paying for players we cannot afford. My who point of my sarcy post was to have a bit of a dig at local multimillionares for not loving our club as much as we do and refusing to help us out. For fucks sake, even when we were in the basement nobody gave a shit apart from the likes of Borley who was a cardiff fan.

Why should local multimillionaires love our club - it's their individual choice. Why should they bail out a private enterprise?
I'd rather we worked within our wage budget, but you know the scor - you then get people whining at not spending squillions on players. Amazing how easy running football finances are when people spend others money...

Most foreign investment ends in debt and/or tears. I am hopeful that these Malasians are top businessmen and will makie a profitable business out fo Cardiff City and that we can eventually manage to run within our means but at a higher level playing entertaining football. If Stoke can do it then surely we can. Not that I'm saying they play great football or anything, they just seem to spend quite wisely and peform quite well. I don't know their debt situation though.

Malaysians interests at the moment mirror ours. When they diverge then the problems begin.

So far priorities seem to be advertising in Malaysia and more worryingly using the club as a vehcial to promote Cosway/eCosway.

Not moaning at all. I want us to live within our means.

Having worked for a Far East Multinaional, I have seen how egos work.

They have a new head office, we have a new head office and so on, so if egos take over it becomes an expensive race.

My Companies UK Head Office was built at a cost of millions 6 years ago for 300+ staff. Now 55 of us rattle around it!

On another note the 2million plus we had for Goodwillie did it exist or was that spent on KM (WHO WILL COME GOOD)?

Or Tan could just do what the owners of Chelsea, Man City do use some of his own money. There would be no debt then.

It is always easy to spend someone else's money

Playing devil's advocate VT might answer by saying why don't you supporters spend more of YOUR money on CCFC if you wish to see multi-million pound signings.

For starters season tickets could go up by scrapping the price freeze and making a standard seat £500 per season? Or we could buy Cardiff City Player for £40 a season or all 3 playing kits for £120?

It is nice to think there is a free ride out there but the truth is there never is.

Or Tan could just do what the owners of Chelsea, Man City do use some of his own money. There would be no debt then.

Might want to look at Chelsea's debt burden. Far higher than it was when they nearly went under, due to Ken Bates.

If you believe Abramovich is using all of his own money without ever wanting to get anything back, I'l a bridge in London I can sell you...

Bulid a winning team and season ticket and shirt sales would go up.

It works both ways.

Also, an investment of 10 million on players and wages could see a much bigger return IF we were able to make it to the Prem.

You gotta spend money to make money!

Or Tan could just do what the owners of Chelsea, Man City do use some of his own money. There would be no debt then.

Might want to look at Chelsea's debt burden. Far higher than it was when they nearly went under, due to Ken Bates.

If you believe Abramovich is using all of his own money without ever wanting to get anything back, I'l a bridge in London I can sell you...

Chelsea are in no danager at all of going broke.

And Roman is still pumping money into the club.

Many in the media believe that he funds the big transfers that Chelsea still make.

Sunderland would be another example.

And no one is saying he we should be on par with Chelse, Man City or even Sunderland.

I don't think 10 million is OTT when you compare the money that could be brought in IF we made it to the Prem.

Show some faith in MM.

Or Tan could just do what the owners of Chelsea, Man City do use some of his own money. There would be no debt then.

Might want to look at Chelsea's debt burden. Far higher than it was when they nearly went under, due to Ken Bates.

If you believe Abramovich is using all of his own money without ever wanting to get anything back, I'l a bridge in London I can sell you...

Chelsea are in no danager at all of going broke.

And Roman is still pumping money into the club.

Many in the media believe that he funds the big transfers that Chelsea still make.

Sunderland would be another example.

Nope, you're still not getting it.

Chelsea have massive debts. Chelsea are utterly reliant upon Abramovich funding them. Abramovich isn't stupid, the loans at the club aren't against his name.

Abramovich loses interest, dies, Chelsea are utterly screwed. We're not talking admin, we're talking liquidation.

Are Chelsea in imminent danger of going under? No. Once the process starts, if it starts, there's no chance of recovery.

And Roman can't just walk away.

He would need to find a buyer.

He owns Chelsea.

But that's not going to happen.

Samething with Man City and Sunderland.

Even Mike Ashley has put over 100 million of his own money into Newcastle Utd.

And Roman can't just walk away.

He would need to find a buyer.

He owns Chelsea.

But that's not going to happen.

Samething with Man City and Sunderland.

Even Mike Ashley has put over 100 million of his own money into Newcastle Utd.

And if Abramovich has organised the financing of the club, hidden behind company facades so there's no comeback on him personally should Chelsea go under, you're still confident he can't simply walk away? Abramovich can walk away and write off the money he's invested should he want to. Sadly, people believe Chelsea are 100% financed by Abramovich - they aren't. He's been fairly clever about that. Should he go, liquidation will occur fairly soon after, a firesale wouldn't get close to clearing the debt.

Ashley? The guy is a fan and a class A idiot.

Anyway, I'm onlt talking about an investent of 10 million on fees and wages - 3 million less then Chelsea spent on getting their new manager.

And a 10 million investment that could see a return on IF we were able to get in the Prem.

We will talk about Chelsea, Man City IF we are fighting it out to get in the top 4.

Malaysians invested heavily over the past few seasons.

Having been burnt on that, they'll spend within a defined budget...

Anyway, I'm onlt talking about an investent of 10 million on fees and wages - 3 million less then Chelsea spent on getting their new manager.

And a 10 million investment that could see a return on IF we were able to get in the Prem.

We will talk about Chelsea, Man City IF we are fighting it out to get in the top 4.

I would point out that 'only' £10m is more than half our annual turnover

What happens if the gamble doesn't come off, who loses £10m?

Then we haven't got the right manager in place.

If you have faith in MM then you back him.

Look what he has done with next to no budget at all?

Give him some money and trust him not to sign over the hills players or duds.

Then we haven't got the right manager in place.

If you have faith in MM then you back him.

Look what he has done with next to no budget at all?

Give him some money and trust him not to sign over the hills players or duds.

That doesn't answer the question of who pays if the gamble doesn't come off? What you are advocating is the same nonsense that Sam started and was then taken onto another level by Ridsdale.

It is flawed because when the gamble fails we are left with debts that someone has to pay eventually or we go into administration.

To add to that even if the gamble pays off, we start life in the Premiership handicapped by a £10m debt, which obviously could be covered by Premiership income, but it is still a sizable amount which is bound to affect our ability to build a team capable of surviving in that league.

It's not the same as Tan has the funds to cover a 10 million investment.

It would be his money - He wouldn't need to borrow it.

But why should Tan use his own money?

Tan would see a return IF we got to the Prem.

Mike Ashley is seeing a return already on the 100 million he put into Newcastle Utd.

It's not the same as Tan has the funds to cover a 10 million investment.

It would be his money - He wouldn't need to borrow it.

But why should Tan use his own money?

Tan would see a return IF we got to the Prem.

Mike Ashley is seeing a return already on the 100 million he put into Newcastle Utd.

So your long answer is Vincent Tan is the man who would take the £10m hit if the gamble didn't pay off? I'm sure he will be delighted to hear that you think such a successful businessman would be prepared to lose such a vast amount on a football club.

Sorry BBM I like your optomism but as I said earlier it is easy to spend someone else's money and not your own. Basically your idea that VT should put such a vast amount in without strings is never going to happen. VT might convert some of the money already spent eventually into shares but any future investments of the size you mentioned would almost certainly be loans i.e. debt.

PS I think you will find Mike Ashley has spent near to £400m on Newcastle and even the most optomistic accountant would challenge whether he has made a return or is ever likely to.

Ashley did not pay 400 millon for the club.

The 100 million was used to clear the clubs debts.

Newcastle Utd is now running at profit. Ashely takes between 15-20 million out of the club per year.

If Tan wants to see a return like Ashley then he is going to put his hand in his pocket.

Or should Tan see a Ashley return without spending any money? Should it all be profit without taking any risk?

Ashley did not pay 400 millon for the club.

£134 was the initial cost. After that he injected at least another £100m.

The 100 million was used to clear the clubs debts.

Which doesn't mean it's turning a profit...

Newcastle Utd is now running at profit. Ashely takes between 15-20 million out of the club per year.

Fact? Given there are other shareholders, I'd be amazed if the mighty Toon were making at least 15-20m profit a year.

If Tan wants to see a return like Ashley then he is going to put his hand in his pocket.

Or should Tan see a Ashley return without spending any money? Should it all be profit without taking any risk?

Really? You're failing in that you're viewing the club as the overriding priority to Tan.

Club marketed in Malaysia. May not be Prem side, but still the Malaysian links will pick up some support and sales. Club heavily promoting Cosway/eCosway in Britain. Assuming it's kosher, I'd suggest that could bring in more money to Berjaya than a Prem club.

With their currnet set up Newcastle Utd are turning a profit.

Factor in the Andy Carrol sale and Ashley is taking even more than 15-20 million out of the club.

Cardiff have a lot in common with Newcastle Utd.

Both are a one club city.

Sir John Hall made a huge amount of money on his investment during the first run under Keegan.

You gotta spend money to make money.

With their currnet set up Newcastle Utd are turning a profit.

Are they? Are they really? I'd assume the documents filed with Companies House would be available for you to confirm that view.

Factor in the Andy Carrol sale and Ashley is taking even more than 15-20 million out of the club.

Is Ashley taking that out of the club? Is he really? Salary, determined by board plus dividends from PROFITS. Legit expenses. Well, they'd have to be making a staggering profit for Ashley to be getting the money you're claiming he is. That or sell an overpriced player for 35m each season.

Cardiff have a lot in common with Newcastle Utd.

Not really, no.

Sir John Hall made a huge amount of money on his investment during the first run under Keegan.

And where did they end up? And what was the debt?

You gotta spend money to make money.

No, you have to spend money responsibly to make money. Massive difference.