The Armed Forces - The Parents moaning.

I love our Armed Forces.

I have total respect for what they do, I dont buy in to the why are they in Afghan etc. People dont think it effects them, but indirectly it well and truly does.

When lads die fighting for their country im gutted, I honestly feel sad, just like I do when I feel sad for lads who lost their lives fighting the Nazis.

The only thing that pisses me off is when you get the parents of the soldiers, airmen, seamen going mental and trying to have a pop saying, why are we here, why are we there etc.

Why was my boy in Afghanistan, why was my boy in Iraq, why was my boy in the Falklands.

Your boy or daughter was there because they signed up!, thats the risk, its not play school, its war!

When you see these parents on the TV going mental saying 'why was my son in Iraq etc,' I feel like they are doing their kids a diservice.

Iv had proper mates who have served, 1 lad who the whole village came out for when he came home from the Falklands, one lad who served in the first Gulf War and the Balkans and is now locked up in wormwood scrubs.. , 2 lads who have been to both Iraq and Afghan and one who who did 3 years but never realy went anywhere apart from Germany and they all say the same as Im saying.

I have every sympathy for parents who's children die in the line of duty, but they start to get on my tits when they start moaning about why their kid was there in the first place.

They didnt sign up for a 9-5 Admin job, they effectivly signed up for War, whether or not you agree with the War is not important, you cant join the army, pick up the wage and then maon if you get shot?

Like I said, all my mates who have served agree.

Thoughts?

Spot on mate. Assuming I get in the TA's and get sent out to afghan, I will tell my parents that, I signed up knowing the consequences of joining the armed forces, I'm fully aware that I could get killed in action etc. It's not the armed forces fault. If they have anyone to blame it would be the government, I'm not blaming the Tories for his one so any Tories please don't slate me.

Totally agree Mate and if you talk to any squaddie they will tell you the same thing they know the risks when they sign up.

I have total respect for all our soldiers and have coached lads who are now in the army and they all realise never mind who is n Goverment and whether they agree with it or not they have to go and fight wherever they are sent that's the job and that's their duty

RIP To each and every Soldier who have lost their lives and condolences to all their Families

At the end of the day the pain for parents who lose their children must be huge and sometimes in life people need to blame someone.

Thats my problem right there mate.

How can you blame someone when you know exactly what your signing up for.

Nobody forced a gun to their head and said your joining the forces.

If the parents were that against it, they should have stopped their sons and daughters signing up in the first place?

I love our Armed Forces.

I have total respect for what they do, I dont buy in to the why are they in Afghan etc. People dont think it effects them, but indirectly it well and truly does.

When lads die fighting for their country im gutted, I honestly feel sad, just like I do when I feel sad for lads who lost their lives fighting the Nazis.

The only thing that pisses me off is when you get the parents of the soldiers, airmen, seamen going mental and trying to have a pop saying, why are we here, why are we there etc.

Why was my boy in Afghanistan, why was my boy in Iraq, why was my boy in the Falklands.

Your boy or daughter was there because they signed up!, thats the risk, its not play school, its war!

When you see these parents on the TV going mental saying 'why was my son in Iraq etc,' I feel like they are doing their kids a diservice.

Iv had proper mates who have served, 1 lad who the whole village came out for when he came home from the Falklands, one lad who served in the first Gulf War and the Balkans and is now locked up in wormwood scrubs.. , 2 lads who have been to both Iraq and Afghan and one who who did 3 years but never realy went anywhere apart from Germany and they all say the same as Im saying.

I have every sympathy for parents who's children die in the line of duty, but they start to get on my tits when they start moaning about why their kid was there in the first place.

They didnt sign up for a 9-5 Admin job, they effectivly signed up for War, whether or not you agree with the War is not important, you cant join the army, pick up the wage and then maon if you get shot?

Like I said, all my mates who have served agree.

Thoughts?

its an interesting topic one that bemuses me at times watching parents of servicemen go from being the proudest people on the planet to hating everything the military stand for and the government. Its not something servicemen will understand I suppose as they are aware of the risks they take when joining up. I put the sudden change in parents on pure worry for their loved ones and grief striken responses when finding out their little innocent boy or girl has been lost in the line of duty. When you lose someone you love you have to blame someone, be it the hospital that didnt care for them properly or your GP who didnt diagnose your illness quickly enough, but when it comes to the military, accepting that your son and daughter went into this life voluntarily can be hard and its easier to blame a faceless organisation which inevitably the military and the government will turn into. Some parents wont blame the military some will, those who do may change their mind in time others will continue a crusade against the military and government for years. One thing I would say is you dont know how you will react to these situations and people will grieve and worry in their own way. My advice would be if hating the government and our armed forces helps you deal with the loss of your son and daughter go for it, because this country has taken something away from you that can never be replaced.

Might I add that the parents would be very distressed at the time.

Might I add that the parents would be very distressed at the time.

Of course mate, I echo that.

Im not talking about someone being angry straight after, everyone acts differently to a bereavement.

Might I add that the parents would be very distressed at the time.

Of course mate, I echo that.

Im not talking about someone being angry straight after, everyone acts differently to a bereavement.

I agree. Ahwell let them.

Reg Keys the father of Lance Corporal Tom Keys even stood against Tony Blair in the 2005 General Election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reg_Keys

What and absolute idiot, not you MG, Reg Keys.

'Keys is a founder member of the campaign group Military Families Against the War'

Yet he let his son join the army, who incidently fight in wars.

Is this man a bit thick or what?

How old was his son when he joined?

Reg Keys the father of Lance Corporal Tom Keys even stood against Tony Blair in the 2005 General Election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reg_Keys

What and absolute idiot, not you MG, Reg Keys.

'Keys is a founder member of the campaign group Military Families Against the War'

Yet he let his son join the army, who incidently fight in wars.

Is this man a bit thick or what?

no not really read the name of his group 'Military Families Againt THE War' he campaigned against the war in Iraq and that the Government went into that war under false pretences, in his campaign he never once belittled the military nor did he say he was against his son joing the army, in fact he was spot on about the war not being about WMD and more about regime change and he was more opposed to our country joining an illegal war, which now we know it was. His son was one of 6 RMP's who died in Iraq with improper and insufficent equipment to perfom their duties and at the time shocked the country, I share this mans ideas not only did they send his son off to an illegal war they couldnt be bothered to give him the correct equipment to fight with and before you think im anti-military i seved in Basra with the Navy.

Reg Keys the father of Lance Corporal Tom Keys even stood against Tony Blair in the 2005 General Election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reg_Keys

What and absolute idiot, not you MG, Reg Keys.

'Keys is a founder member of the campaign group Military Families Against the War'

Yet he let his son join the army, who incidently fight in wars.

Is this man a bit thick or what?

no not really read the name of his group 'Military Families Againt THE War' he campaigned against the war in Iraq and that the Government went into that war under false pretences, in his campaign he never once belittled the military nor did he say he was against his son joing the army, in fact he was spot on about the war not being about WMD and more about regime change and he was more opposed to our country joining an illegal war, which now we know it was. His son was one of 6 RMP's who died in Iraq with improper and insufficent equipment to perfom their duties and at the time shocked the country, I share this mans ideas not only did they send his son off to an illegal war they couldnt be bothered to give him the correct equipment to fight with and before you think im anti-military i seved in Basra with the Navy.

Which is excatly my point about the dodgy document produced by Blair and Campbell.

I joined the military in the early 80s before the Falklands war. I was a trainee at the time of the war so was no go to anyone but if by chance I had to go I would have. Why because it would have been the right thing to do in the fact that it was against a dictator, the Argentine junta, who invaded our land. My conscience was clear for that war and for the rest of my military career as we stood against a bigger dictator called communism.

I had no probelm joining the military then but today I would hesitate which is worry. Before the Iraq war our governments. labour and tory, had a perfect record and had always done the right thing when it went to going to war. The Iragi war changed all that as far as I'm concerned and I would be reluctant to join up today if I had my time over again. While Labour are still a major force in our politics and until they denounce what Blair did then I would not encourage my children to sign up.

I'm not anti military, there is a great need for a fighting force in our country. I support our troop wherever they are regardless if we should be there or not. As far as I am concerned the buck stops with the politicians and unlike the 80s where I was comfortable with them, the politicans that is, today I simply dont trust them to make the right decision when it comes to going to war.

When I went to Afghanistan I said to my parents should anything happen to me I do not want the Forces or the government slated and that I am a volunteer and could leave anytime I want. I also asked them to keep my sisters away from press as they are more likely to say something silly.

AS other people have stated we are not forced to join up. I disagree with what is going on in Libya but I have to support it because I am told to.

Reg Keys the father of Lance Corporal Tom Keys even stood against Tony Blair in the 2005 General Election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reg_Keys

What and absolute idiot, not you MG, Reg Keys.

'Keys is a founder member of the campaign group Military Families Against the War'

Yet he let his son join the army, who incidently fight in wars.

Is this man a bit thick or what?

no not really read the name of his group 'Military Families Againt THE War' he campaigned against the war in Iraq and that the Government went into that war under false pretences, in his campaign he never once belittled the military nor did he say he was against his son joing the army, in fact he was spot on about the war not being about WMD and more about regime change and he was more opposed to our country joining an illegal war, which now we know it was. His son was one of 6 RMP's who died in Iraq with improper and insufficent equipment to perfom their duties and at the time shocked the country, I share this mans ideas not only did they send his son off to an illegal war they couldnt be bothered to give him the correct equipment to fight with and before you think im anti-military i seved in Basra with the Navy.

Which is excatly my point about the dodgy document produced by Blair and Campbell.

Lads, with respect ,lhats a seperate debate.

The point is, it doesnt matter if the War was right or not or whether you agree with it or not, or whether they had the right equipment or not.

The fact remains, if you join the Forces that is what you sign up for.

You can have a go at the lack of funding, the lack of equipment etc and I will not argue with you, but if you sign up for the Army, RAF or the Navy you sign up to go where you are put, whether that be the Falklands, Iraq, Afghanistan, The Balkans, Lybia or whereever in the world. If you dont agree, you shouldnt sign up, and if the parents dont agree they should try and talk their kids out of joining before, not set up crusades afterwards.

My Father was in the army in the 50's and 60's served in Aden (horrible), Cyprus, Germany over 10 years.

Loved every minute of it. Aden was similar in a way to Afghenistan, hot, fighting a war you'll never win against a cowardly enemy who wouldn't fight face to face and who knw the terrain far far better. in a place where they weren't wanted. On the other hand he as well paid (considering his background and education) to train for years in Germany, and help 'keep the peace' in beautiful Cyprus. wIn some lose some.

In those days though they just did the job and kept out of the politics.

He went into the army as a rough-arsed Splott lad and came out a complete man trained, skilled and disciplined. It was the basis for him making a real success of his life after, as a parent, husband and eventually a businessman.

Two of my uncles followed him after, one into the RAF, where again he had a great time and came out with skills and discipline, and another who is now a high ranked officer in the Signals.

Point is, its a lottery, you could earn decent money with all your bills paid, whilst training and keeping fit for 10-20-30 years or you could end up fighting a war you don't understand and will never win in a hell-hole. Thing is, you and your parents (and I suppose you can't blame them for airing their greif) know the score the day you sign up.

I was tempted, but I was lucky and did well in school and got into a decent Uni. My mother was horrified I even considered it mind

Reg Keys the father of Lance Corporal Tom Keys even stood against Tony Blair in the 2005 General Election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reg_Keys

What and absolute idiot, not you MG, Reg Keys.

'Keys is a founder member of the campaign group Military Families Against the War'

Yet he let his son join the army, who incidently fight in wars.

Is this man a bit thick or what?

no not really read the name of his group 'Military Families Againt THE War' he campaigned against the war in Iraq and that the Government went into that war under false pretences, in his campaign he never once belittled the military nor did he say he was against his son joing the army, in fact he was spot on about the war not being about WMD and more about regime change and he was more opposed to our country joining an illegal war, which now we know it was. His son was one of 6 RMP's who died in Iraq with improper and insufficent equipment to perfom their duties and at the time shocked the country, I share this mans ideas not only did they send his son off to an illegal war they couldnt be bothered to give him the correct equipment to fight with and before you think im anti-military i seved in Basra with the Navy.

Which is excatly my point about the dodgy document produced by Blair and Campbell.

Lads, with respect ,lhats a seperate debate.

The point is, it doesnt matter if the War was right or not or whether you agree with it or not, or whether they had the right equipment or not.

The fact remains, if you join the Forces that is what you sign up for.

You can have a go at the lack of funding, the lack of equipment etc and I will not argue with you, but if you sign up for the Army, RAF or the Navy you sign up to go where you are put, whether that be the Falklands, Iraq, Afghanistan, The Balkans, Lybia or whereever in the world. If you dont agree, you shouldnt sign up, and if the parents dont agree they should try and talk their kids out of joining before, not set up crusades afterwards.

Yes that is what you sign up for no argument off me, its what i signed up for and my parents accepted it, my father only asked one thing off me was not to be an infantryman because he wanted me to have a trade bit of a daft statement to make as i was joining the navy. During my time in the navy i had good times and bad times, some experiences i will talk about all night and others ill take to my grave. The issue is and i mean this as inoffensive as possible but what gives you the right to tell a parent how to feel, I dont have that right neither does any other serviceman or civilian. As a seviceman you fore go the right to question what your government wants to do in a theatre of war because whether you agree with it or not your fighting there anyway, but your parents and loved ones havent. When I was in the navy I had the respect and support from home that I needed to keep me going as im sure every seviceman has aswell, but it didnt stop them from having opinions which didnt exactly agree all the time with what we were doing. My second point to call Reg Keys stupid and thick is very disrespectful, this man rocked Tony Blair in one speech, he has a lot of support from sevicemen up and down the country, this man fully supported his son joining the army and was fully aware of the risks involved, he knew when he waved his son off before being posted to iraq that, that might be the last time he sees him, but he expected the army to protect him as much as possible and when his 19 year old son dies with no grenades, no morphine, only 50 rounds of ammunition and no reliable form of communication to call in support dont tell me he hasnt got the right to feel that this government let his son down.

Reg Keys the father of Lance Corporal Tom Keys even stood against Tony Blair in the 2005 General Election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reg_Keys

What and absolute idiot, not you MG, Reg Keys.

'Keys is a founder member of the campaign group Military Families Against the War'

Yet he let his son join the army, who incidently fight in wars.

Is this man a bit thick or what?

no not really read the name of his group 'Military Families Againt THE War' he campaigned against the war in Iraq and that the Government went into that war under false pretences, in his campaign he never once belittled the military nor did he say he was against his son joing the army, in fact he was spot on about the war not being about WMD and more about regime change and he was more opposed to our country joining an illegal war, which now we know it was. His son was one of 6 RMP's who died in Iraq with improper and insufficent equipment to perfom their duties and at the time shocked the country, I share this mans ideas not only did they send his son off to an illegal war they couldnt be bothered to give him the correct equipment to fight with and before you think im anti-military i seved in Basra with the Navy.

Which is excatly my point about the dodgy document produced by Blair and Campbell.

Lads, with respect ,lhats a seperate debate.

The point is, it doesnt matter if the War was right or not or whether you agree with it or not, or whether they had the right equipment or not.

The fact remains, if you join the Forces that is what you sign up for.

You can have a go at the lack of funding, the lack of equipment etc and I will not argue with you, but if you sign up for the Army, RAF or the Navy you sign up to go where you are put, whether that be the Falklands, Iraq, Afghanistan, The Balkans, Lybia or whereever in the world. If you dont agree, you shouldnt sign up, and if the parents dont agree they should try and talk their kids out of joining before, not set up crusades afterwards.

Yes that is what you sign up for no argument off me, its what i signed up for and my parents accepted it, my father only asked one thing off me was not to be an infantryman because he wanted me to have a trade bit of a daft statement to make as i was joining the navy. During my time in the navy i had good times and bad times, some experiences i will talk about all night and others ill take to my grave. The issue is and i mean this as inoffensive as possible but what gives you the right to tell a parent how to feel, I dont have that right neither does any other serviceman or civilian. As a seviceman you fore go the right to question what your government wants to do in a theatre of war because whether you agree with it or not your fighting there anyway, but your parents and loved ones havent. When I was in the navy I had the respect and support from home that I needed to keep me going as im sure every seviceman has aswell, but it didnt stop them from having opinions which didnt exactly agree all the time with what we were doing. My second point to call Reg Keys stupid and thick is very disrespectful, this man rocked Tony Blair in one speech, he has a lot of support from sevicemen up and down the country, this man fully supported his son joining the army and was fully aware of the risks involved, he knew when he waved his son off before being posted to iraq that, that might be the last time he sees him, but he expected the army to protect him as much as possible and when his 19 year old son dies with no grenades, no morphine, only 50 rounds of ammunition and no reliable form of communication to call in support dont tell me he hasnt got the right to feel that this government let his son down.

You are right about my comments about Mr Keys, and I fully appologise for the words that I used. To say what I did was indeed disrespectful and I take it back.

I also fully agree with you that nobody has the right to tell another parent how to feel when they lose a child, or when anyone loses a loved one for that matter. I fully accept that everyone reacts differently to a bereavment and whatever helps that person deal with their loss, within reason is fine.

I obviously didnt know enough about that individual case and of course Mr Keys has every right to be angry that his son was put in a position where he wasnt fully equiped.

I stand by my original comments in the OP though, its just a personal opinion that obviously some people share and some people disagre with and that is that it is a bit crazy when you see parents sending their lads off to join the forces, proudly presenting their pictures on the walls of their homes, and then turning full circle and saying they should never have been there if, god forbid, anything should happen to them.

I dont mean any disrespect and I hope nobody takes my comments the wrong way. As I said, Iv spoken about this with plenty of people, servicemen and non servicemen and Iv never had anyone disagre with me.

Tony Blair spoke to Rupert Murdoch three times in the 10 days before the outbreak of the Iraq war.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 57825.html

These guys should be in prison.

Reg Keys the father of Lance Corporal Tom Keys even stood against Tony Blair in the 2005 General Election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reg_Keys

What and absolute idiot, not you MG, Reg Keys.

'Keys is a founder member of the campaign group Military Families Against the War'

Yet he let his son join the army, who incidently fight in wars.

Is this man a bit thick or what?

no not really read the name of his group 'Military Families Againt THE War' he campaigned against the war in Iraq and that the Government went into that war under false pretences, in his campaign he never once belittled the military nor did he say he was against his son joing the army, in fact he was spot on about the war not being about WMD and more about regime change and he was more opposed to our country joining an illegal war, which now we know it was. His son was one of 6 RMP's who died in Iraq with improper and insufficent equipment to perfom their duties and at the time shocked the country, I share this mans ideas not only did they send his son off to an illegal war they couldnt be bothered to give him the correct equipment to fight with and before you think im anti-military i seved in Basra with the Navy.

Which is excatly my point about the dodgy document produced by Blair and Campbell.

Lads, with respect ,lhats a seperate debate.

The point is, it doesnt matter if the War was right or not or whether you agree with it or not, or whether they had the right equipment or not.

The fact remains, if you join the Forces that is what you sign up for.

You can have a go at the lack of funding, the lack of equipment etc and I will not argue with you, but if you sign up for the Army, RAF or the Navy you sign up to go where you are put, whether that be the Falklands, Iraq, Afghanistan, The Balkans, Lybia or whereever in the world. If you dont agree, you shouldnt sign up, and if the parents dont agree they should try and talk their kids out of joining before, not set up crusades afterwards.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 10727.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 73585.html

Just two examples.

In a lot of cases, the MOD are absolutely 100% guilty of selling our lads short
and in these circumstances, as a parent... id go to my grave looking for justice!!

Its called the Military Covenant. You put your life on the line for your Country, you
accept it, its the job...But in turn the government are LEGALLY bound to ensure
THEY do all they can to protect and safeguard the lads doing the fighting.

AND their families..... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... pline.html