OUR WAR

what a fantastic programe it is, and everyone of those lads is a bloody hero....end of !

it is very sad cause we shouldnt even be there! .... i watched that programme about afghan last night and not long after the war started the taliban wanted to broker a deal and more or less surender but the good old usa turned it down! it was a massive mistake! .... its an unwinable war and if i was a youngster i`d never ever join up to fight for this country cause this country is run by fools who dont give too f**ks for soldiers lifes. all they care about is oil and money!

it is very sad cause we shouldnt even be there! .... i watched that programme about afghan last night and not long after the war started the taliban wanted to broker a deal and more or less surender but the good old usa turned it down! it was a massive mistake! .... its an unwinable war and if i was a youngster i`d never ever join up to fight for this country cause this country is run by fools who dont give too f**ks for soldiers lifes. all they care about is oil and money!

This explains exactly how I feel.

I joined the military in the 70s mainly because I needed a trade. Then I had full confidence in our politicians that when it came to war we would do the right thing, the Falklands war being a good example of that. I feel for the young today who NEED to join up be it for thier country or just get a trade like myself. Our policitians today are selfish idiots, expensives scandal is just one issue, and just cannot be trusted. Most of my ex military collegues I keep in touch with today would never join up if they had their time again. Most believe Tony Blair should be done for war crimes of which I am one of them. The Afghan and Irag wars we are going to pay the price for a long long time thanks to these pathetic politicans.

Very sad indeed.

it is very sad cause we shouldnt even be there! .... i watched that programme about afghan last night and not long after the war started the taliban wanted to broker a deal and more or less surender but the good old usa turned it down! it was a massive mistake! .... its an unwinable war and if i was a youngster i`d never ever join up to fight for this country cause this country is run by fools who dont give too f**ks for soldiers lifes. all they care about is oil and money!

This explains exactly how I feel.

I joined the military in the 70s mainly because I needed a trade. Then I had full confidence in our politicians that when it came to war we would do the right thing, the Falklands war being a good example of that. I feel for the young today who NEED to join up be it for thier country or just get a trade like myself. Our policitians today are selfish idiots, expensives scandal is just one issue, and just cannot be trusted. Most of my ex military collegues I keep in touch with today would never join up if they had their time again. Most believe Tony Blair should be done for war crimes of which I am one of them. The Afghan and Irag wars we are going to pay the price for a long long time thanks to these pathetic politicans.

Very sad indeed.

i feel very sad that i cant find it within myself to support our troops in the middle east! ... yes i know they are only following orders but it still doesnt make it right in my eyes! ... and the thing is the british public is so brainwashed by it all that if people speak out about it, you get called a traitor! ... which really annoys me because thats just a pile of shit! ... and yes the falklands was a war we needed to fight because theres british people living there but in all honesty id never even heard of the place before that war started! ... seems a bit strange to me how we own an island so far away and right next to argentina!

it is very sad cause we shouldnt even be there! .... i watched that programme about afghan last night and not long after the war started the taliban wanted to broker a deal and more or less surender but the good old usa turned it down! it was a massive mistake! .... its an unwinable war and if i was a youngster i`d never ever join up to fight for this country cause this country is run by fools who dont give too f**ks for soldiers lifes. all they care about is oil and money!

This explains exactly how I feel.

I joined the military in the 70s mainly because I needed a trade. Then I had full confidence in our politicians that when it came to war we would do the right thing, the Falklands war being a good example of that. I feel for the young today who NEED to join up be it for thier country or just get a trade like myself. Our policitians today are selfish idiots, expensives scandal is just one issue, and just cannot be trusted. Most of my ex military collegues I keep in touch with today would never join up if they had their time again. Most believe Tony Blair should be done for war crimes of which I am one of them. The Afghan and Irag wars we are going to pay the price for a long long time thanks to these pathetic politicans.

Very sad indeed.

i feel very sad that i cant find it within myself to support our troops in the middle east! ... yes i know they are only following orders but it still doesnt make it right in my eyes! ... and the thing is the british public is so brainwashed by it all that if people speak out about it, you get called a traitor! ... which really annoys me because thats just a pile of shit! ... and yes the falklands was a war we needed to fight because theres british people living there but in all honesty id never even heard of the place before that war started! ... seems a bit strange to me how we own an island so far away and right next to argentina!

Plenty of people speak out about it?

I do, and my son is out there.

Like every other country in the world, lads join the Military, once they do
that they cannot pick and choose where and when they go. THATS why
the vast majority of people in Britain support the TROOPS. You do what
you like feller, free country.

f**k me, there's a lad round the corner to me HATES the British Army cos
of Ireland etc (fair enough, up to him) yet claims to be fiercely anti-fascist???

How does that work, when Ireland supported Hitler during the War?

Funny old world

it is very sad cause we shouldnt even be there! .... i watched that programme about afghan last night and not long after the war started the taliban wanted to broker a deal and more or less surender but the good old usa turned it down! it was a massive mistake! .... its an unwinable war and if i was a youngster i`d never ever join up to fight for this country cause this country is run by fools who dont give too f**ks for soldiers lifes. all they care about is oil and money!

This explains exactly how I feel.

I joined the military in the 70s mainly because I needed a trade. Then I had full confidence in our politicians that when it came to war we would do the right thing, the Falklands war being a good example of that. I feel for the young today who NEED to join up be it for thier country or just get a trade like myself. Our policitians today are selfish idiots, expensives scandal is just one issue, and just cannot be trusted. Most of my ex military collegues I keep in touch with today would never join up if they had their time again. Most believe Tony Blair should be done for war crimes of which I am one of them. The Afghan and Irag wars we are going to pay the price for a long long time thanks to these pathetic politicans.

Very sad indeed.

i feel very sad that i cant find it within myself to support our troops in the middle east! ... yes i know they are only following orders but it still doesnt make it right in my eyes! ... and the thing is the british public is so brainwashed by it all that if people speak out about it, you get called a traitor! ... which really annoys me because thats just a pile of shit! ... and yes the falklands was a war we needed to fight because theres british people living there but in all honesty id never even heard of the place before that war started! ... seems a bit strange to me how we own an island so far away and right next to argentina!

You think the british public are brainwashed? Quite the opposite I think, the american public on the other hand, they are brainwashed, (not all as some hate their government)

it is very sad cause we shouldnt even be there! .... i watched that programme about afghan last night and not long after the war started the taliban wanted to broker a deal and more or less surender but the good old usa turned it down! it was a massive mistake! .... its an unwinable war and if i was a youngster i`d never ever join up to fight for this country cause this country is run by fools who dont give too f**ks for soldiers lifes. all they care about is oil and money! [/quote]


This explains exactly how I feel.

I joined the military in the 70s mainly because I needed a trade. Then I had full confidence in our politicians that when it came to war we would do the right thing, the Falklands war being a good example of that. I feel for the young today who NEED to join up be it for thier country or just get a trade like myself. Our policitians today are selfish idiots, expensives scandal is just one issue, and just cannot be trusted. Most of my ex military collegues I keep in touch with today would never join up if they had their time again. Most believe Tony Blair should be done for war crimes of which I am one of them. The Afghan and Irag wars we are going to pay the price for a long long time thanks to these pathetic politicans.

Very sad indeed.[/quote]
i feel very sad that i cant find it within myself to support our troops in the middle east! ... yes i know they are only following orders but it still doesnt make it right in my eyes! ... and the thing is the british public is so brainwashed by it all that if people speak out about it, you get called a traitor! ... which really annoys me because thats just a pile of shit! ... and yes the falklands was a war we needed to fight because theres british people living there but in all honesty id never even heard of the place before that war started! ... seems a bit strange to me how we own an island so far away and right next to argentina![/quote]

Plenty of people speak out about it?

I do, and my son is out there.

Like every other country in the world, lads join the Military, once they do
that they cannot pick and choose where and when they go. THATS why
the vast majority of people in Britain support the TROOPS. You do what
you like feller, free country.

f**k me, there's a lad round the corner to me HATES the British Army cos
of Ireland etc (fair enough, up to him) yet claims to be fiercely anti-fascist???

How does that work, when Ireland supported Hitler during the War?

Funny old world[/quote]


trouble is with threads like this taffyapple and even conversations at work and stuff, is that you have to be careful of not upsetting people like yourself that have children out there! .. its a very sensitive subject!

it is very sad cause we shouldnt even be there! .... i watched that programme about afghan last night and not long after the war started the taliban wanted to broker a deal and more or less surender but the good old usa turned it down! it was a massive mistake! .... its an unwinable war and if i was a youngster i`d never ever join up to fight for this country cause this country is run by fools who dont give too f**ks for soldiers lifes. all they care about is oil and money!

This explains exactly how I feel.

I joined the military in the 70s mainly because I needed a trade. Then I had full confidence in our politicians that when it came to war we would do the right thing, the Falklands war being a good example of that. I feel for the young today who NEED to join up be it for thier country or just get a trade like myself. Our policitians today are selfish idiots, expensives scandal is just one issue, and just cannot be trusted. Most of my ex military collegues I keep in touch with today would never join up if they had their time again. Most believe Tony Blair should be done for war crimes of which I am one of them. The Afghan and Irag wars we are going to pay the price for a long long time thanks to these pathetic politicans.

Very sad indeed.[/quote]
i feel very sad that i cant find it within myself to support our troops in the middle east! ... yes i know they are only following orders but it still doesnt make it right in my eyes! ... and the thing is the british public is so brainwashed by it all that if people speak out about it, you get called a traitor! ... which really annoys me because thats just a pile of shit! ... and yes the falklands was a war we needed to fight because theres british people living there but in all honesty id never even heard of the place before that war started! ... seems a bit strange to me how we own an island so far away and right next to argentina![/quote]

Plenty of people speak out about it?

I do, and my son is out there.

Like every other country in the world, lads join the Military, once they do
that they cannot pick and choose where and when they go. THATS why
the vast majority of people in Britain support the TROOPS. You do what
you like feller, free country.

f**k me, there's a lad round the corner to me HATES the British Army cos
of Ireland etc (fair enough, up to him) yet claims to be fiercely anti-fascist???

How does that work, when Ireland supported Hitler during the War?

Funny old world[/quote]


trouble is with threads like this taffyapple and even conversations at work and stuff, is that you have to be careful of not upsetting people like yourself that have children out there! .. its a very sensitive subject![/quote]

I dont get upset

If your saying that we shouldnt be out there, I agree, let them kill each
other, its the national pastime anyway. Muslim (the religion of peace)
is split right down the middle between shi'ite and sunni who kill each
other on sight.. We should leave them the f**k alone, let them wallow
in their stone age lives... its not our fight. But thats MY opinion. There
are plenty agree with being over there ref: Al Qu'aida etc etc etc

But I support our troops over there 100% ... they do not pick and choose
where and when they fight. In the future we may be involved in a conflict
closer to home that we ALL believe in, the British Public realises this.

When i see thousands of parcels getting sent over there every week by
complete strangers to soldiers they do not even know, i dont see it as
support for the War... I see it as a mark of respect for lads who's only
real choice if they arent happy is to get the f**k out the forces. Of course
there will be people who disagree with me. But they arent going to get
dragged out into the streets and publicly flogged/beheaded or jailed...

Why?

Because we have an Armed Forces that is there ultimately to protect their
very right to call them cunts if they so wish

it is very sad cause we shouldnt even be there! .... i watched that programme about afghan last night and not long after the war started the taliban wanted to broker a deal and more or less surender but the good old usa turned it down! it was a massive mistake! .... its an unwinable war and if i was a youngster i`d never ever join up to fight for this country cause this country is run by fools who dont give too f**ks for soldiers lifes. all they care about is oil and money!

This explains exactly how I feel.

I joined the military in the 70s mainly because I needed a trade. Then I had full confidence in our politicians that when it came to war we would do the right thing, the Falklands war being a good example of that. I feel for the young today who NEED to join up be it for thier country or just get a trade like myself. Our policitians today are selfish idiots, expensives scandal is just one issue, and just cannot be trusted. Most of my ex military collegues I keep in touch with today would never join up if they had their time again. Most believe Tony Blair should be done for war crimes of which I am one of them. The Afghan and Irag wars we are going to pay the price for a long long time thanks to these pathetic politicans.

Very sad indeed.

i feel very sad that i cant find it within myself to support our troops in the middle east! ... yes i know they are only following orders but it still doesnt make it right in my eyes! ... and the thing is the british public is so brainwashed by it all that if people speak out about it, you get called a traitor! ... which really annoys me because thats just a pile of shit! ... and yes the falklands was a war we needed to fight because theres british people living there but in all honesty id never even heard of the place before that war started! ... seems a bit strange to me how we own an island so far away and right next to argentina![/quote]

Plenty of people speak out about it?

I do, and my son is out there.

Like every other country in the world, lads join the Military, once they do
that they cannot pick and choose where and when they go. THATS why
the vast majority of people in Britain support the TROOPS. You do what
you like feller, free country.

f**k me, there's a lad round the corner to me HATES the British Army cos
of Ireland etc (fair enough, up to him) yet claims to be fiercely anti-fascist???

How does that work, when Ireland supported Hitler during the War?

Funny old world[/quote]


trouble is with threads like this taffyapple and even conversations at work and stuff, is that you have to be careful of not upsetting people like yourself that have children out there! .. its a very sensitive subject![/quote]

I dont get upset

If your saying that we shouldnt be out there, I agree, let them kill each
other, its the national pastime anyway. Muslim (the religion of peace)
is split right down the middle between shi'ite and sunni who kill each
other on sight.. We should leave them the f**k alone, let them wallow
in their stone age lives... its not our fight. But thats MY opinion. There
are plenty agree with being over there ref: Al Qu'aida etc etc etc

But I support our troops over there 100% ... they do not pick and choose
where and when they fight. In the future we may be involved in a conflict
closer to home that we ALL believe in, the British Public realises this.

When i see thousands of parcels getting sent over there every week by
complete strangers to soldiers they do not even know, i dont see it as
support for the War... I see it as a mark of respect for lads who's only
real choice if they arent happy is to get the f**k out the forces. Of course
there will be people who disagree with me. But they arent going to get
dragged out into the streets and publicly flogged/beheaded or jailed...

Why?

Because we have an Armed Forces that is there ultimately to protect their
very right to call them cunts if they so wish[/quote]

Taffy well said mate

Slightly diverting and I mean slightly what about the subject "war of conscience".

That is a solder who refused to fight in a conflict because he or she does not agree with if come say religious grounds or humanitarian facts.

This subject came to fruitition with me during the Afghan war. By now I was out of the military, I left in 86, put I supported our government for the 1st Iraq war in 91ish. Then along came the Afghan war that as we all know was the result of the Taliban housing Bin Laden who became no 1 enemy after 9/11. I actually supported our governments move for that war although I did recognise it was in support of the USA and some people felt it was an American war which we should have not got involved. However my conscience was clear as I felt the 9/11 was more of an attack on the free world of which we lived in. It is another subject that we could debate all night but the arguments are there to oppose our involvement without doubt. So when I saw on TV a solder getting arrested, in military terms it is called close arrest, for refusing to fight the subject "war of conscience" came ot the fore front.

I had no problem with the afghan war but I certainly do with the second Iraq war. If I was still serving would I fight in that war? My conscience would have been put to the test.

Opinions guys.

Slightly diverting and I mean slightly what about the subject "war of conscience".

That is a solder who refused to fight in a conflict because he or she does not agree with if come say religious grounds or humanitarian facts.

This subject came to fruitition with me during the Afghan war. By now I was out of the military, I left in 86, put I supported our government for the 1st Iraq war in 91ish. Then along came the Afghan war that as we all know was the result of the Taliban housing Bin Laden who became no 1 enemy after 9/11. I actually supported our governments move for that war although I did recognise it was in support of the USA and some people felt it was an American war which we should have not got involved. However my conscience was clear as I felt the 9/11 was more of an attack on the free world of which we lived in. It is another subject that we could debate all night but the arguments are there to oppose our involvement without doubt. So when I saw on TV a solder getting arrested, in military terms it is called close arrest, for refusing to fight the subject "war of conscience" came ot the fore front.

I had no problem with the afghan war but I certainly do with the second Iraq war. If I was still serving would I fight in that war? My conscience would have been put to the test.

Opinions guys.

war of conscience is an absoloute mine field excuse the pun. Were all trained to fight in wars and we are all trained to recognise what is right and what is wrong and we should act accordingly, these ideals are all very good in theory but in practice are very difficult to implement, it takes a very brave serviceman to refuse orders on the grounds of his religious or political beliefs and can get into alot of trouble and this works right through the ranks from non-commisioned officers right through to our commisioned officers. I cant vouch for the army or air force but in the navy a sailor has never been in trouble for following his captains orders but you refuse them your talking mutiny still a very serious charge in the navy. The forces dont have a union something i believe should be implemented, so you refuse orders you only have yourself to back yourself up its alot of pressure to put on yourself.

Slightly diverting and I mean slightly what about the subject "war of conscience".

That is a solder who refused to fight in a conflict because he or she does not agree with if come say religious grounds or humanitarian facts.

This subject came to fruitition with me during the Afghan war. By now I was out of the military, I left in 86, put I supported our government for the 1st Iraq war in 91ish. Then along came the Afghan war that as we all know was the result of the Taliban housing Bin Laden who became no 1 enemy after 9/11. I actually supported our governments move for that war although I did recognise it was in support of the USA and some people felt it was an American war which we should have not got involved. However my conscience was clear as I felt the 9/11 was more of an attack on the free world of which we lived in. It is another subject that we could debate all night but the arguments are there to oppose our involvement without doubt. So when I saw on TV a solder getting arrested, in military terms it is called close arrest, for refusing to fight the subject "war of conscience" came ot the fore front.

I had no problem with the afghan war but I certainly do with the second Iraq war. If I was still serving would I fight in that war? My conscience would have been put to the test.

Opinions guys.

There is always room to question any Military conflict. Afghanistan? was Osama
really there or in Pakistan? Did America really think they were going to catch him
or was it just a ploy to put boots on the ground in a strategically key area???

Iraq? There are still those that believe we were right to go in there. I for one
thought Tony Blair shamed our country by falling in like a puppy behind Bush!!

But if an individual feels that strongly that they would disobey orders and refuse
to fight, i would not jump straight in and call them a coward. However, they
signed up and took the 'queens shilling' as it were. So if the consequences of refusing
to obey orders results in a prison sentence then they cannot really complain.