" GREAT MALAYSIAN STATEMENT "

Well done to the Malaysian's, fully trust them to tackle the debts and take this club forward

I Hope this a genuine move with all parties, I am a concerned that the Malaysians seem to have a tad too much faith relying on people that should have followed Mr Jones out the door, I must also point out that its taken nearly two years to bring in forensics of bacteriologic scientists that can see or find any deliberately coded figures that no accountant or normal person could find, Sorry but its almost that funny a joke. Be honorable pay the bill and lets move on, Because in Lay-mans terms it looks like Jenkins and Co have the Malaysians looking like a couple of KNOCKERS looking for an excuse not to pay, Surely the Malaysians must know what the rest of the Board are about by now? Not Totally bought sorry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_accountant

definition of forensic accountants!!!!!!!!!

All the right noises being made from the club which is good news for us.

My concerns are we haven't got a football man at the club so how are they going to get the right manager in ?

I cant see us breaking the bank on transfers but that's about right to stabilize the club.

Hay all the right noises from the Malaysian are being said and they stick to there word and its nice to have em here .

We need a football man here at the club they cant run the club from afar can they that's my only concern at the moment.

Looking forward to the new season now bring it on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_accountant

definition of forensic accountants!!!!!!!!!

May be We should hire a Forensic Accountant to go over the books for the last two years alone , Now that be funny, at worse
interesting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At least its a step towards getting the monkey off the clubs back.

Sick of hearing about it, the whole situation must be unsettling for staff, players and fans alike and I look forward to the day when the club is stable and we know EXACTLY where we stand.

The debt could be £60m or £6m this time next year. I hope its the lower.

the statement isnt what sam wanted to hear at all

its what I wanted to hear though

It was a great move by the club and the Malaysians putting this positive statement out.

Credit to them.

Sam Hammam almost succeeded in sinking 2 football clubs. I hope he doesn't get his money back as his dealings with us do not deserve it.

We are so lucky that the club is still going.

Oh and of course I say "his money" very loosely, as it never really was his money that he put into Cardiff City.

Just as bad as Hicks & Gillett were at Liverpool.

The Malaysian slicer is out - Sam wont get nothing unless he takes it to court , if he did these Malaysians would just bung it into Admin, they have already threatened that too privately.

No promotion - no bonus - bring out the slicer and carve everyone up.

Statement = Malaysian bullshit and treachery . But you lot love em because you seem them as saviours how wrong you are - buts that the beauty of the free world !

The Malaysian slicer is out - Sam wont get nothing unless he takes it to court , if he did these Malaysians would just bung it into Admin, they have already threatened that too privately.

No promotion - no bonus - bring out the slicer and carve everyone up.

Statement = Malaysian bullshit and treachery . But you lot love em because you seem them as saviours how wrong you are - buts that the beauty of the free world !

so Steve , whats your personal thoughts on all this then and what do you see unfolding at CCFC over the coming months / season ?

what they should do is :-

Identify the exact amount of real money invested by Hammam - as in show them the receipts, then apply the average rate of interest (not Hammams rate of interest) - and pay him that. He then has 2 choices - accept or go to court.

Sam needs to realise he is playing with Billionaires here , not millionaires and certainly not a 2nd hand scrap metal dealer.

If Sam starts to play up - then go straight into Admin, Hammam gets 1p in the pound (which is probably what he invested anyway) , and we can wipe the slate and start again. Sometimes if you gangrene in your leg - you need to cut it off - same applies here.

Off the top of my head I can think of £3.5m paid by Sam to buy Cardiff in 2000, £1.7m for Thorne, £800,000 for Gabbidon, £500,000 for Gavin Gordon £1m for Kavanagh, £500,000 for Rhys Weston and £600,000 for Chris Barker.

That's £8.6m without factoring other transfer fees I forgotten about or wages over a 5 year period. I would a figure of £10m would easily be obtainable and probably a lot higher if you consider all the money spent on youth delevopment and stadium planning.

What about all the gate money and season ticket money during 2000-2005, or are you forgetting that? you are assumig that just because we spent money we did not have money coming in, which is of course nonsense.

The £24m loan is basically £4m per annum each and every year from 2000-2006.

If Sam starts to play up - then go straight into Admin, Hammam gets 1p in the pound (which is probably what he invested anyway) , and we can wipe the slate and start again. Sometimes if you gangrene in your leg - you need to cut it off - same applies here.

Hammam would get zip as an unsecured creditor, surely?

If Sam starts to play up - then go straight into Admin, Hammam gets 1p in the pound (which is probably what he invested anyway) , and we can wipe the slate and start again. Sometimes if you gangrene in your leg - you need to cut it off - same applies here.

Hammam would get zip as an unsecured creditor, surely?

a CVA would need to be agreed by 75% of all creditors, meaning that Langston could get something. Hammam would not get anything, as apparently, he is not owed anything by the club.

If Sam starts to play up - then go straight into Admin, Hammam gets 1p in the pound (which is probably what he invested anyway) , and we can wipe the slate and start again. Sometimes if you gangrene in your leg - you need to cut it off - same applies here.

Hammam would get zip as an unsecured creditor, surely?

a CVA would need to be agreed by 75% of all creditors, meaning that Langston could get something. Hammam would not get anything, as apparently, he is not owed anything by the club.

Thought it was 75% of secured creditors; probably got that one wrong. Almost certainly got it wrong, tbh.

If it is 75% weighted by debt value, then Langston would have a say in that CVA - hence I don't believe admin is on the cards.

What I do suspect is the Malaysians may feel the whole Langton deal is fishy to begin with and are thus trawling through everything Hammam did to find evidence to that end. Maybe they already have some of that evidence and are using third party FA's for it to be able to be entered as evidence in any case.

Either way, the fact remains that the statement made by the club is almost certainly a declaration of war. Interesting times...

The Malaysian slicer is out - Sam wont get nothing unless he takes it to court , if he did these Malaysians would just bung it into Admin, they have already threatened that too privately.

No promotion - no bonus - bring out the slicer and carve everyone up.

Statement = Malaysian bullshit and treachery . But you lot love em because you seem them as saviours how wrong you are - buts that the beauty of the free world !

Is this "true" in the same way QPR were getting docked points and John Ryan was on the panel for it?

The Malaysian slicer is out - Sam wont get nothing unless he takes it to court , if he did these Malaysians would just bung it into Admin, they have already threatened that too privately.

No promotion - no bonus - bring out the slicer and carve everyone up.

Statement = Malaysian bullshit and treachery . But you lot love em because you seem them as saviours how wrong you are - buts that the beauty of the free world !

Is this "true" in the same way QPR were getting docked points and John Ryan was on the panel for it?

That wasn't Steve's fault - Beyonce gave him duff info.

Off the top of my head I can think of £3.5m paid by Sam to buy Cardiff in 2000, £1.7m for Thorne, £800,000 for Gabbidon, £500,000 for Gavin Gordon £1m for Kavanagh, £500,000 for Rhys Weston and £600,000 for Chris Barker.

That's £8.6m without factoring other transfer fees I forgotten about or wages over a 5 year period. I would a figure of £10m would easily be obtainable and probably a lot higher if you consider all the money spent on youth delevopment and stadium planning.

What about all the gate money and season ticket money during 2000-2005, or are you forgetting that? you are assumig that just because we spent money we did not have money coming in, which is of course nonsense.

The £24m loan is basically £4m per annum each and every year from 2000-2006.

With respect Feedback you will have to do much better than that. I can remember in 2005 we brought in £1m in season ticket sales a drop in the ocean for a club who were paying 105% of turnover in wages alone.

Other transfers BTW

Leo Fortune West £300,000
David Hughes £450,000
Lee Bullock £100,000
Andy Campbell £950,000
Spencer Prior £700,000
Richard Langley £200,000
Alan Lee £850,000
Paul Parry £75,000
Glen Loovens £250,000
Darren Purse £750,000
Steve Thompson £250,000

That little lot comes to £4.9m added to the £8.1m earlier identified you have £13m just in transfer fees and God knows what else in agent fees wages and signing on fees.

I Hope this a genuine move with all parties, I am a concerned that the Malaysians seem to have a tad too much faith relying on people that should have followed Mr Jones out the door, I must also point out that its taken nearly two years to bring in forensics of bacteriologic scientists that can see or find any deliberately coded figures that no accountant or normal person could find, Sorry but its almost that funny a joke. Be honorable pay the bill and lets move on, Because in Lay-mans terms it looks like Jenkins and Co have the Malaysians looking like a couple of KNOCKERS looking for an excuse not to pay, Surely the Malaysians must know what the rest of the Board are about by now? Not Totally bought sorry.

Genuine move...all parties? It's war.

Just got a horrible feeling this is going to get very nasty. I would not worry about the forensic stuff, we are not going to hear anytihng from it. The only inkling we will get if soething is wrong is when one party takes the other to court. I've got a feeling that will be Sam.

I Hope this a genuine move with all parties, I am a concerned that the Malaysians seem to have a tad too much faith relying on people that should have followed Mr Jones out the door, I must also point out that its taken nearly two years to bring in forensics of bacteriologic scientists that can see or find any deliberately coded figures that no accountant or normal person could find, Sorry but its almost that funny a joke. Be honorable pay the bill and lets move on, Because in Lay-mans terms it looks like Jenkins and Co have the Malaysians looking like a couple of KNOCKERS looking for an excuse not to pay, Surely the Malaysians must know what the rest of the Board are about by now? Not Totally bought sorry.

Genuine move...all parties? It's war.

Just got a horrible feeling this is going to get very nasty. I would not worry about the forensic stuff, we are not going to hear anytihng from it. The only inkling we will get if soething is wrong is when one party takes the other to court. I've got a feeling that will be Sam.

Think they might be looking at wages coming out.

Only a guess at what they might be looking at but there was talk of Sam's brother getting paid by the club while he was here, and I can remember it being brought up as one of the final severence issues, whether its true or not we'll probably never find out.
Maybe there were other 'consultants' , which might explain why a 3rd division club could have a £10m wage bill.

At the end of the day I just want it sorted and if it means Sam getting nothing/next to nothing then so be it. He made £80m out of Wimbledon and lost £20m at Cardiff. Still not bad going for something as risky as football.

I Hope this a genuine move with all parties, I am a concerned that the Malaysians seem to have a tad too much faith relying on people that should have followed Mr Jones out the door, I must also point out that its taken nearly two years to bring in forensics of bacteriologic scientists that can see or find any deliberately coded figures that no accountant or normal person could find, Sorry but its almost that funny a joke. Be honorable pay the bill and lets move on, Because in Lay-mans terms it looks like Jenkins and Co have the Malaysians looking like a couple of KNOCKERS looking for an excuse not to pay, Surely the Malaysians must know what the rest of the Board are about by now? Not Totally bought sorry.

Genuine move...all parties? It's war.

Just got a horrible feeling this is going to get very nasty. I would not worry about the forensic stuff, we are not going to hear anytihng from it. The only inkling we will get if soething is wrong is when one party takes the other to court. I've got a feeling that will be Sam.

I'd be amazed if Sam went to court, given the lengths taken to ensure the secrecy of whom Langston actually are. I'd suggest legal action would be the last thing Langston would want ( summary judgment aside ) because a full trial could very well hinge upon the true identity of Langston, which could turn out to be somewhat embarassing. Certainly the identity would become public knowledge.

Equally, would someone wanting only 40% of a debt paid if paid by a certain time be fully confident they'd get a verdict in their favour. I'd suggest not.

I Hope this a genuine move with all parties, I am a concerned that the Malaysians seem to have a tad too much faith relying on people that should have followed Mr Jones out the door, I must also point out that its taken nearly two years to bring in forensics of bacteriologic scientists that can see or find any deliberately coded figures that no accountant or normal person could find, Sorry but its almost that funny a joke. Be honorable pay the bill and lets move on, Because in Lay-mans terms it looks like Jenkins and Co have the Malaysians looking like a couple of KNOCKERS looking for an excuse not to pay, Surely the Malaysians must know what the rest of the Board are about by now? Not Totally bought sorry.

Genuine move...all parties? It's war.

Just got a horrible feeling this is going to get very nasty. I would not worry about the forensic stuff, we are not going to hear anytihng from it. The only inkling we will get if soething is wrong is when one party takes the other to court. I've got a feeling that will be Sam.

I'd be amazed if Sam went to court, given the lengths taken to ensure the secrecy of whom Langston actually are. I'd suggest legal action would be the last thing Langston would want ( summary judgment aside ) because a full trial could very well hinge upon the true identity of Langston, which could turn out to be somewhat embarassing. Certainly the identity would become public knowledge.

Equally, would someone wanting only 40% of a debt paid if paid by a certain time be fully confident they'd get a verdict in their favour. I'd suggest not.

the other main issue is that if it is found that langston and sam are the same it can quickly become a financial regulations matter because an owner of one company cannot lend money to another company he owns and charge interest
he was also paying himself out of that lent money in consultancy fee's etc.
all this in my opinion has been found out by the malaysians.
having said that i have always said they should do a deal and pay him back what he is owed and 10 million is about right as far as im concerned.

With respect Feedback you will have to do much better than that. I can remember in 2005 we brought in £1m in season ticket sales a drop in the ocean for a club who were paying 105% of turnover in wages alone.

Other transfers BTW

Leo Fortune West £300,000
David Hughes £450,000
Lee Bullock £100,000
Andy Campbell £950,000
Spencer Prior £700,000
Richard Langley £200,000
Alan Lee £850,000
Paul Parry £75,000
Glen Loovens £250,000
Darren Purse £750,000
Steve Thompson £250,000

That little lot comes to £4.9m added to the £8.1m earlier identified you have £13m just in transfer fees and God knows what else in agent fees wages and signing on fees.

TBW

if there are £13m + agent fees and signing on fees then you also have to deduct from that monies received for transfers. From what i can remember

Kavanagh = £300k
Earnshaw £3m
Gabbidon and Collins = £3.5m

so there is nearly £7m on that alone, there was probably more. The result is that no more than £6m net was spent on transfers during 2000-2005.

In that period we had an average attendance of about 11,000. If we played only 23 home games per season and the average price was say £20 then each season would have netted us about £5m in gate receipts. This is probably on the low side of what it actually was. Add on merchandise, match day sales, commercial revenue from being in the league and appearing on TV, gate money from cup runs not included and suddenly we are very near the £10m annual wage bill.

The only other cost would really be development of the bob bank and grange end, i have no idea how much that would be.

so we have a deficit of £6m or less on transfers and annual revenues that just about cover the wage bill, if not slightly less. We spend £2m on the ground at best....so where is all this extra expenditure that justifies a loan note of £24m?

Has anyone got a full list of players bought and sold during this period?

I'm sure we also bought Jobi Macnuff (excuse spelling), but also sold him.

Sam also spent a bit of money with the stadium design and planning.

Off the top of my head I can think of £3.5m paid by Sam to buy Cardiff in 2000, £1.7m for Thorne, £800,000 for Gabbidon, £500,000 for Gavin Gordon £1m for Kavanagh, £500,000 for Rhys Weston and £600,000 for Chris Barker.

That's £8.6m without factoring other transfer fees I forgotten about or wages over a 5 year period. I would a figure of £10m would easily be obtainable and probably a lot higher if you consider all the money spent on youth delevopment and stadium planning.

you cannot nclude the £3.5m Hammam paid for the club, he purchased the shares so he owned them. That could never be included as money he lent the club as the club cannot buy its own shares, unless it is a buy back. Since we did not see a reduction in share capital, we can assume there was no such buy back. Therefore, the whole £3.5m was cash Hammam used to purchase the shares. Thus this cannot ever be included in money loaned to the club.

Gave me a bit of a lift to see some positive moves. Get the right man in now and build.his own.squad. I'm sure Sam will be pleased to hear they are finally going to deal with the debts,hopefully the forensic accounting wont take to long and we can pay the bill and.finally move on, see this as a real positive that they finally taking full control, so lets push on, hopefully with a top class manager and a realistic budget for him to work with,Gethin appears to be handling the pressure well and perhaps he deserves a bit of credit, be a lot mor releaved when the bills are paid apd here's hoping for a settled future.

What happened here with your Malaysian friends Gwyn,this is May 2011 ?

Gave me a bit of a lift to see some positive moves. Get the right man in now and build.his own.squad. I'm sure Sam will be pleased to hear they are finally going to deal with the debts,hopefully the forensic accounting wont take to long and we can pay the bill and.finally move on, see this as a real positive that they finally taking full control, so lets push on, hopefully with a top class manager and a realistic budget for him to work with,Gethin appears to be handling the pressure well and perhaps he deserves a bit of credit, be a lot mor releaved when the bills are paid apd here's hoping for a settled future.

What happened here with your Malaysian friends Gwyn,this is May 2011 ?

Gave me a bit of a lift to see some positive moves. Get the right man in now and build.his own.squad. I'm sure Sam will be pleased to hear they are finally going to deal with the debts,hopefully the forensic accounting wont take to long and we can pay the bill and.finally move on, see this as a real positive that they finally taking full control, so lets push on, hopefully with a top class manager and a realistic budget for him to work with,Gethin appears to be handling the pressure well and perhaps he deserves a bit of credit, be a lot mor releaved when the bills are paid apd here's hoping for a settled future.

What happened here with your Malaysian friends Gwyn,this is May 2011 ?

Other than Gethin being moved out, what else is not as original statement? Malky's got a budget, the forensic accountants have found nowt, the deal with Langston is being worked on but it takes two sides to make agreement, we aren't hearing about court appearances and debtors asking for payment as before, surely even the most blinkered fan can see some positives and a rosy future ahead.

Once the Langston thing is done then they will be able to take full control, we all know until it's done they can't do anymore than they are doing.