BACK HIM OR SACK HIM!!!

I'm grateful up to now for TG/VT and co for stabilising our off field problems, but i'm getting concerned at what i'm hearing. The fact they don't want to pay out the terms of DJ's contract (which he is entitled to ) and they are prepared to let him stay on but not back him finacially, whats the point in that?? Surely that is just making us fans suffer yet again! The way i see it they have 3 options:

1) Sack him (my preferred choice)
2) Back him (with real transfer money)
3) Force him to resign!!

They can put him on gardening leave, still pay his wages but he's unable to work for anyone else while we get a new manager in....i hope it doesnt come to this, DJ get some self respect and do the decent thing, ive backed you till now but time for a fresh start for the both of us.

All this talk of Sam lately has got me worried as his history with us is erratic to say the least, but one thing you could bet on, he would not put up with this!!! DJ would be dust by now.

It will cost £800K to sack him which is money that CCFC havnt got !

It will cost £800K to sack him which is money that CCFC havnt got !

Under the terms of his contract yes but the club could make a case regarding the performance of his duties as manager i.e. failing to control players (lashgate), failing to adequately discipline players involved in lashgate.

All of this would affect his entitlement under his contract because it could be argued he contributed to his own downfall, eventually both parties would reach a compromise position and I would bet it would be less than 1/2 of that £800k figure.

The club should just get on and sack him if he won't resign.

Castle I think Jones is a very astute bloke and in the same mold as Ridsdale ........ dynamite wont shift him from CCFC at the moment !

Castle I think Jones is a very astute bloke and in the same mold as Ridsdale ........ dynamite wont shift him from CCFC at the moment !

You're more than likely right about the dynamite but with DJ I would replace astute with stubborn he must know his number is up at the club and surely the club realise that at sometime either now or in the future this situation must be dealt with.

To me the cleanest option is to give him his £800k and get him out of the club but if the club don't want to do it give him his 1 years notice. As DJ has always said about players running their contracts down they need to be playing at the top of their game to attract offers from other clubs, giving him notice would mean in his own words he will need to be at the top of his game to attract other clubs. The club also needs to see these rolling contracts as being beneficial only to the emplyee not the employer.

My gut feeling is he will see his notice for what it is a vote of no confidence and as stubborn as he is he will have his agent looking for a new job.

And thats the most central point here if he were to leave what compensation would the club be expected to receive I would bet it won't be £800k that being the case why should he expect it

When does Jones's current contract expire then , is it June 2012 ?

When does Jones's current contract expire then , is it June 2012 ?

Today it expires on 25/5/2012 tomorrow it would expire on 26/5/2012 hence its a years ROLLING contract

My overall point is we shoild not be left in limbo!! Its us that end up suffering AGAIN!

It will cost £800K to sack him which is money that CCFC havnt got !

Which confirms my concern of their commitment and ambition, are they just going to sit back next season because they have already got the season ticket figures and let DJ just get frees or transfers from the lower divisions and consolidate next season. Again I would question their long term commitment if they are content to settle with Jonesy for another year just to save the club £800k

It will cost £800K to sack him which is money that CCFC havnt got !

Under the terms of his contract yes but the club could make a case regarding the performance of his duties as manager i.e. failing to control players (lashgate), failing to adequately discipline players involved in lashgate.

All of this would affect his entitlement under his contract because it could be argued he contributed to his own downfall, eventually both parties would reach a compromise position and I would bet it would be less than 1/2 of that £800k figure.

The club should just get on and sack him if he won't resign.

It could be of course that DJ discussed the disciplinary measures he took with these players with Gethin Jenkins.In fact In would be surprised if he hadn't. If Gethin agreed with the measures taken he can hardly discipline DJ can he. Unless TG and VT discipline both of them. Oh and if TG knew VT could discipline all three. Not sure where the club could go if VT knew as well!!

And how pray is he meant to able to adequately control 20 adults and stop them going out in their own time.

Pretty poor case I think.

When does Jones's current contract expire then , is it June 2012 ?

No it just keeps on rolling by 12 months for every day that goes by so if they gave him his notice today he would leave the club on 24th May 2012. If he stays until the end of next season his notice period will run until May 2013.

Thats why I say it has to be dealt with at sometime and the sooner the better if you ask me.

It could be of course that DJ discussed the disciplinary measures he took with these players with Gethin Jenkins.In fact In would be surprised if he hadn't. If Gethin agreed with the measures taken he can hardly discipline DJ can he. Unless TG and VT discipline both of them. Oh and if TG knew VT could discipline all three. Not sure where the club could go if VT knew as well!!

And how pray is he meant to able to adequately control 20 adults and stop them going out in their own time.

Pretty poor case I think.

Sorry I think your wrong DJ is the head of all football activities at a professional football and central to that would be the physical condition of the players. Cardiff City FC is also a business and under UK employment law are required to have a grievance procedure so initially DJ is responsible to discipline, then GJ but only as the next route of appeal against any decision made by DJ and so on up the line. GJ, TG, VT even the kitman may be aware of the actions DJ has taken but only one person is responsible and that is DJ himself.

Poor case absolutely no way.

It could be of course that DJ discussed the disciplinary measures he took with these players with Gethin Jenkins.In fact In would be surprised if he hadn't. If Gethin agreed with the measures taken he can hardly discipline DJ can he. Unless TG and VT discipline both of them. Oh and if TG knew VT could discipline all three. Not sure where the club could go if VT knew as well!!

And how pray is he meant to able to adequately control 20 adults and stop them going out in their own time.

Pretty poor case I think.

Sorry I think your wrong DJ is the head of all football activities at a professional football and central to that would be the physical condition of the players. Cardiff City FC is also a business and under UK employment law are required to have a grievance procedure so initially DJ is responsible to discipline, then GJ but only as the next route of appeal against any decision made by DJ and so on up the line. GJ, TG, VT even the kitman may be aware of the actions DJ has taken but only one person is responsible and that is DJ himself.

Poor case absolutely no way.

I think you're cluthcing at straws.

And you didn't answer my question. How can he stop 20 adults all living at separate addresses going out in their own time

By commanding respect!

By commanding respect!

Not necessarily.

I've know managers where I've worked who were greatly respected by their staff and peers and still some idiots abused their trust.

No matter how good the manager you'll stil get problems like this in any workplace.

Sorry I think your wrong DJ is the head of all football activities at a professional football and central to that would be the physical condition of the players. Cardiff City FC is also a business and under UK employment law are required to have a grievance procedure so initially DJ is responsible to discipline, then GJ but only as the next route of appeal against any decision made by DJ and so on up the line. GJ, TG, VT even the kitman may be aware of the actions DJ has taken but only one person is responsible and that is DJ himself.

Poor case absolutely no way.

I think you're cluthcing at straws.

And you didn't answer my question. How can he stop 20 adults all living at separate addresses going out in their own time

It's called maintaining discipline and as manager DJ hasn't and it doesn't get any simpler than that. The players are not only professional sportsman they are employees of Cardiff City Football Club and quite simply it can only be seen as a breach of club discipline, it has been widely reported that DJ instructed then to go home after the player of the year bash but 5 players decided to do their own thing - thats a breach of club discipline.

You control this by discipling the players a bit like Luke Flecther at Notts CCC who has just been suspended for 2 weeks for breaching club discipline. DJ promised the guilty players would be dealt with in a manner which amongst others the fanswould expect.

Rather than suspend the guilty players he continued to select them thats enough in my opinion to use this against him.

By commanding respect!

Absolutely right and DJ namby pamby attitude to his precious players is not acceptable at any level let alone a professional sports club.

Lets face it these players went on the lash directly against his instruction, the players have a responsibility to do everything to maintain their physical condition and when they don't they get pulled up for it.

Unless they have a namby pamby manager like DJ.

Sorry I think your wrong DJ is the head of all football activities at a professional football and central to that would be the physical condition of the players. Cardiff City FC is also a business and under UK employment law are required to have a grievance procedure so initially DJ is responsible to discipline, then GJ but only as the next route of appeal against any decision made by DJ and so on up the line. GJ, TG, VT even the kitman may be aware of the actions DJ has taken but only one person is responsible and that is DJ himself.

Poor case absolutely no way.

I think you're cluthcing at straws.

And you didn't answer my question. How can he stop 20 adults all living at separate addresses going out in their own time

It's called maintaining discipline and as manager DJ hasn't and it doesn't get any simpler than that. The players are not only professional sportsman they are employees of Cardiff City Football Club and quite simply it can only be seen as a breach of club discipline, it has been widely reported that DJ instructed then to go home after the player of the year bash but 5 players decided to do their own thing - thats a breach of club discipline.

You control this by discipling the players a bit like Luke Flecther at Notts CCC who has just been suspended for 2 weeks for breaching club discipline. DJ promised the guilty players would be dealt with in a manner which amongst others the fanswould expect.

Rather than suspend the guilty players he continued to select them thats enough in my opinion to use this against him.

Even if you are right, and I still have issues with your views, I hardly see it as being enough to say he has breached his contract. And I think if they did try to stop his payment for this a decent lawyer would shred them at a tribunal.

Probably at most a warning from his bosses to be tougher in future

Sorry I think your wrong DJ is the head of all football activities at a professional football and central to that would be the physical condition of the players. Cardiff City FC is also a business and under UK employment law are required to have a grievance procedure so initially DJ is responsible to discipline, then GJ but only as the next route of appeal against any decision made by DJ and so on up the line. GJ, TG, VT even the kitman may be aware of the actions DJ has taken but only one person is responsible and that is DJ himself.

Poor case absolutely no way.

I think you're cluthcing at straws.

And you didn't answer my question. How can he stop 20 adults all living at separate addresses going out in their own time

It's called maintaining discipline and as manager DJ hasn't and it doesn't get any simpler than that. The players are not only professional sportsman they are employees of Cardiff City Football Club and quite simply it can only be seen as a breach of club discipline, it has been widely reported that DJ instructed then to go home after the player of the year bash but 5 players decided to do their own thing - thats a breach of club discipline.

You control this by discipling the players a bit like Luke Flecther at Notts CCC who has just been suspended for 2 weeks for breaching club discipline. DJ promised the guilty players would be dealt with in a manner which amongst others the fanswould expect.

Rather than suspend the guilty players he continued to select them thats enough in my opinion to use this against him.

Even if you are right, and I still have issues with your views, I hardly see it as being enough to say he has breached his contract. And I think if they did try to stop his payment for this a decent lawyer would shred them at a tribunal.

Probably at most a warning from his bosses to be tougher in future

I think you're cluthcing at straws.

And you didn't answer my question. How can he stop 20 adults all living at separate addresses going out in their own time[/quote][/quote][/quote]
You cant Chief in short. But one they are highly paid and Professional sportsmen and they should be disciplined to look after themselves. They should have respect for the Manager and the Club and its supporters. But in short the players should be aware of a code of conduct set up by the manager / club. And they should be aware of this as happens with other Clubs. And they should know the consequences if they act like school kids. Its not rocket science or difficult to implement. If you get paid handsomely by the club to follow strict guidelines then they should abide by them or face the disciplinary procedure of the Club. Which under Jones they got away with Murder.

It's called maintaining discipline and as manager DJ hasn't and it doesn't get any simpler than that. The players are not only professional sportsman they are employees of Cardiff City Football Club and quite simply it can only be seen as a breach of club discipline, it has been widely reported that DJ instructed then to go home after the player of the year bash but 5 players decided to do their own thing - thats a breach of club discipline.

You control this by discipling the players a bit like Luke Flecther at Notts CCC who has just been suspended for 2 weeks for breaching club discipline. DJ promised the guilty players would be dealt with in a manner which amongst others the fanswould expect.

Rather than suspend the guilty players he continued to select them thats enough in my opinion to use this against him.

Even if you are right, and I still have issues with your views, I hardly see it as being enough to say he has breached his contract. And I think if they did try to stop his payment for this a decent lawyer would shred them at a tribunal.

Probably at most a warning from his bosses to be tougher in future

I never said anywhere use this as a breach of contract issue all I said is the club could use it to argue a poor performance situation which means he contributed to his own downfall.

All I said was the club may be able to use a situation like this to negotiate down the full £800k, in this day and age it's called a compromise agreement and sooner or later thats exactly what both parties will have to do - reach a compromise.

Castle I think Jones is a very astute bloke and in the same mold as Ridsdale ........ dynamite wont shift him from CCFC at the moment !

You're more than likely right about the dynamite but with DJ I would replace astute with stubborn he must know his number is up at the club and surely the club realise that at sometime either now or in the future this situation must be dealt with.

To me the cleanest option is to give him his £800k and get him out of the club but if the club don't want to do it give him his 1 years notice. As DJ has always said about players running their contracts down they need to be playing at the top of their game to attract offers from other clubs, giving him notice would mean in his own words he will need to be at the top of his game to attract other clubs. The club also needs to see these rolling contracts as being beneficial only to the emplyee not the employer.

My gut feeling is he will see his notice for what it is a vote of no confidence and as stubborn as he is he will have his agent looking for a new job.

I share the same view, he wont be in such demand next year with a year out of the game and if other clubs see how stubborn he's been over money, what message would that send out.

And thats the most central point here if he were to leave what compensation would the club be expected to receive I would bet it won't be £800k that being the case why should he expect it