How will you be voting today? Yes or No?

This vote is not about Nick Clegg, but a way forward on electoral reform. The majority of Labour politicos get it, some Tories get it, UKIP gets it. The only politicos who don't seem to get it are those who like the comfy old system that exchanges power between the Labour and Conservatives on a regular basis - a mixture of the Conservative establishment and old Labour war horses it would seem.

I don't think anybody is saying that AV is the holy grail, but it is considerably more democratic than the crock of shit we currently have. Vote against AV and the Tories will argue that nation has voted against electoral reform full stop. They will say that FPTP may not be perfect, but that it is what the people of Britain (in their wisdom) want. Any debate on the subject will be dead for another 20-30 years.

FPTP is an outdated electoral system for two-party politics and represents an outdated approach to democracy.

Sorry this has absolutely everything to do with Nick Clegg do you really believe for one second that if he hadn't decided to get into bed with David Cameron we would even be having this debate

He discarded any political principal he ever held in doing this and why to get this vote, at sometime in the future he will understand his new bed partner will do for his political career what Norman Scott did for Jeremy Thorpe.

Trust me on that one.

The reason that there is a vote on the subject is because the outcome of the last election did not fit with the design of an election system intended for two parties. That is not about Nick Clegg. The other point to highlight is that Labour also offered the Lib Dems electoral reform.

36% of the nation voted for the Conservatives at the last election and a similar number didn't vote for either the Conservatives or Labour.

The majority of the Labour Party, including their leader, are behind electoral reform. UKIP and their leader Nick Farage are behind electoral reform. The only hardcore political support for FPTP is from within the Old Establishment and the Conservative Party.

I agree some want it because they may gain from it others dont want it because they may lose out because of it.

Trust me at the end of the day its all a crook of shit

i voted no even though the party i vote for ukip wanted a 'yes' vote

Looks like I might change my vote for YES.

There's been some good debate here, and I've been pursuaded otherwise

Good for you Dafydd I always knew you were a clever lad.

I think Uccello Azzurro has spelt it out best that this referendum is not a vote about Nick Clegg's (who BTW is a complete wanker) performance as Deputy Prime Minster, but a test of opinion on changing an old fashioned out of date voting system.

We need to change attitudes about participating in democratic voting and keeping FPTP is simply going to make the apathy to General Elections far worse.

I would also add this vote is very important to both Ed Milliband and David Cameron. Although Clegg has taken the limelight, it is the first direct clash between the two main party leaders and I would love Milliband to come out on top and set a trend towards the next General Election.

If you vote for the alternative vote, you are voting for the lib dems, BNP etc.,

Vote for democracy and keep the first past the post

If you vote for the alternative vote, you are voting for the lib dems, BNP etc.,

Vote for democracy and keep the first past the post

Which is the BNP are saying NO to AV!

Looks like I might change my vote for YES.

There's been some good debate here, and I've been pursuaded otherwise

You know it makes sense! Sadly, a decent public debate has been snuffed out by the negative approach of the No campaign.

The only people that want a NO vote are the politicians who are in staunch Labour or Conservative seats with an under 50% 'majority'. You shouldnt be voting on central Govt personalities - you should be voting on whether it's a good or bad thing.
I think AV is a better process / system than FPTP.

I have to say I am somewhat surprised by the support this AV system is getting in this debate people who read my posts on a regular basis would hopefully know that I'm no idiot, I am actually fully behind reform of the electoral system but by offering AV and only AV David Cameron has attempted the give Nick Clegg the very least he could to keep him on board and thereby keep him in government.

If I thought that AV truely represented an improvement over the FPTP system then I would fully support it and as I have said previously in my opinion it doesn't it FPTP with a different name. Thats actually not just my opinion but the opinion of the Independant Electoral Commission "The Alternative Vote (AV) is very much like First-Past-the-Post (FPTP)."

This whole referendum is a fudge a crook of shit intended only to offer the most modest change to the FPTP system that will make it almost impossible to detect the difference. Electoral reform my arse but if anyone wants to believe it carry on.

Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrates have become so totally overwhelmed with their own personal importance they have missed the biggest opportunity, probably since women were given the vote, to make a serious and meaninful change to the electoral system in this country. Without Nick Clegg the Conservatives could not survive in power and for David Cameron power is everything Nick Clegg should have used this to ensure the referendum was on the AV+ System that would have been the real and meaningful change people want in this country. Nick Clegg should have walked away from David Cameron and brought his government down in the process but he didn't he fully accepted the political ideology of the Tories and given them free reign for a vote on AV, sorry guys this is very much about Nick Clegg his weakness above all else.

For those interested AV+ according to the Electoral Commission is

The Alternative Vote Plus (AV+) was invented by the 1998 Independent Commission on the Voting System, commonly known as the Jenkins Commission. The Commission was asked to recommend a voting system that fulfilled (or best fulfilled) four criteria:
•The maintenance of a geographical link between MP and constituency
•The need for stable government
•The desire for broad proportionality
•An extension of voter choice

The Commission described the system as a "limited" form of AMS aimed at achieving a balance between the requirements of "broad proportionality" and "stable government".

AV+ was created with the intention of being the alternative to First-Past-the-Post (FPTP) in Labour's promised referendum on the voting system for the House of Commons. The referendum never came and AV+ has, for now, been confined to the parliamentary archives.

AV+ was always the true alternative to FPTP it was always intended to make everyone vote mean something because at least 150 parliamentary seats would be held back and awarded on a proportional basis to ALL votes cast. Yes it would mean redrawing the consitituency boundaries but as the Electoral Commission say;

•Nearly every elector would have at least one vote that would have an effect on the overall election result.
•Parties would have an incentive to campaign across the whole country, and not just in the marginals.
•The final result will be fairer, with parties having a share of MPs based on their support among the electorate, rather than on electoral arithmetic and geographical oddities.
•AV+ will produce majority governments when the voters express a desire for one, but will force them to work together when the electorate choose not to give any one party a clear majority.
•Tactical voting is no longer necessary.

Thats the true electoral reform that I think the majority of people want will be achieved so I say vote NO do not accept more of the same but under a different name. Don't allow yourself to be fooled into accepting a crook of shit and believe me thats exactly what AV is.

I have to say I am somewhat surprised by the support this AV system is getting in this debate people who read my posts on a regular basis would hopefully know that I'm no idiot, I am actually fully behind reform of the electoral system but by offering AV and only AV David Cameron has attempted the give Nick Clegg the very least he could to keep him on board and thereby keep him in government.

If I thought that AV truely represented an improvement over the FPTP system then I would fully support it and as I have said previously in my opinion it doesn't it FPTP with a different name. Thats actually not just my opinion but the opinion of the Independant Electoral Commission "The Alternative Vote (AV) is very much like First-Past-the-Post (FPTP)."

This whole referendum is a fudge a crook of shit intended only to offer the most modest change to the FPTP system that will make it almost impossible to detect the difference. Electoral reform my arse but if anyone wants to believe it carry on.

Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrates have become so totally overwhelmed with their own personal importance they have missed the biggest opportunity, probably since women were given the vote, to make a serious and meaninful change to the electoral system in this country. Without Nick Clegg the Conservatives could not survive in power and for David Cameron power is everything Nick Clegg should have used this to ensure the referendum was on the AV+ System that would have been the real and meaningful change people want in this country. Nick Clegg should have walked away from David Cameron and brought his government down in the process but he didn't he fully accepted the political ideology of the Tories and given them free reign for a vote on AV, sorry guys this is very much about Nick Clegg his weakness above all else.

For those interested AV+ according to the Electoral Commission is

The Alternative Vote Plus (AV+) was invented by the 1998 Independent Commission on the Voting System, commonly known as the Jenkins Commission. The Commission was asked to recommend a voting system that fulfilled (or best fulfilled) four criteria:
•The maintenance of a geographical link between MP and constituency
•The need for stable government
•The desire for broad proportionality
•An extension of voter choice

The Commission described the system as a "limited" form of AMS aimed at achieving a balance between the requirements of "broad proportionality" and "stable government".

AV+ was created with the intention of being the alternative to First-Past-the-Post (FPTP) in Labour's promised referendum on the voting system for the House of Commons. The referendum never came and AV+ has, for now, been confined to the parliamentary archives.

AV+ was always the true alternative to FPTP it was always intended to make everyone vote mean something because at least 150 parliamentary seats would be held back and awarded on a proportional basis to ALL votes cast. Yes it would mean redrawing the consitituency boundaries but as the Electoral Commission say;

•Nearly every elector would have at least one vote that would have an effect on the overall election result.
•Parties would have an incentive to campaign across the whole country, and not just in the marginals.
•The final result will be fairer, with parties having a share of MPs based on their support among the electorate, rather than on electoral arithmetic and geographical oddities.
•AV+ will produce majority governments when the voters express a desire for one, but will force them to work together when the electorate choose not to give any one party a clear majority.
•Tactical voting is no longer necessary.

Thats the true electoral reform that I think the majority of people want will be achieved so I say vote NO do not accept more of the same but under a different name. Don't allow yourself to be fooled into accepting a crook of shit and believe me thats exactly what AV is.

AV is an improvement on FPTP even if it is not the holy grail of electoral systems. If the nation says no to AV, they can kiss goodbye to any chance of electoral reform for another 20-30 years. The Conservatives knew what they were doing when they proposed AV for a referendum. VOTE YES TO AV.

I have to say I am somewhat surprised by the support this AV system is getting in this debate people who read my posts on a regular basis would hopefully know that I'm no idiot, I am actually fully behind reform of the electoral system but by offering AV and only AV David Cameron has attempted the give Nick Clegg the very least he could to keep him on board and thereby keep him in government.

If I thought that AV truely represented an improvement over the FPTP system then I would fully support it and as I have said previously in my opinion it doesn't it FPTP with a different name. Thats actually not just my opinion but the opinion of the Independant Electoral Commission "The Alternative Vote (AV) is very much like First-Past-the-Post (FPTP)."

This whole referendum is a fudge a crook of shit intended only to offer the most modest change to the FPTP system that will make it almost impossible to detect the difference. Electoral reform my arse but if anyone wants to believe it carry on.

Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrates have become so totally overwhelmed with their own personal importance they have missed the biggest opportunity, probably since women were given the vote, to make a serious and meaninful change to the electoral system in this country. Without Nick Clegg the Conservatives could not survive in power and for David Cameron power is everything Nick Clegg should have used this to ensure the referendum was on the AV+ System that would have been the real and meaningful change people want in this country. Nick Clegg should have walked away from David Cameron and brought his government down in the process but he didn't he fully accepted the political ideology of the Tories and given them free reign for a vote on AV, sorry guys this is very much about Nick Clegg his weakness above all else.

For those interested AV+ according to the Electoral Commission is

The Alternative Vote Plus (AV+) was invented by the 1998 Independent Commission on the Voting System, commonly known as the Jenkins Commission. The Commission was asked to recommend a voting system that fulfilled (or best fulfilled) four criteria:
•The maintenance of a geographical link between MP and constituency
•The need for stable government
•The desire for broad proportionality
•An extension of voter choice

The Commission described the system as a "limited" form of AMS aimed at achieving a balance between the requirements of "broad proportionality" and "stable government".

AV+ was created with the intention of being the alternative to First-Past-the-Post (FPTP) in Labour's promised referendum on the voting system for the House of Commons. The referendum never came and AV+ has, for now, been confined to the parliamentary archives.

AV+ was always the true alternative to FPTP it was always intended to make everyone vote mean something because at least 150 parliamentary seats would be held back and awarded on a proportional basis to ALL votes cast. Yes it would mean redrawing the consitituency boundaries but as the Electoral Commission say;

•Nearly every elector would have at least one vote that would have an effect on the overall election result.
•Parties would have an incentive to campaign across the whole country, and not just in the marginals.
•The final result will be fairer, with parties having a share of MPs based on their support among the electorate, rather than on electoral arithmetic and geographical oddities.
•AV+ will produce majority governments when the voters express a desire for one, but will force them to work together when the electorate choose not to give any one party a clear majority.
•Tactical voting is no longer necessary.

Thats the true electoral reform that I think the majority of people want will be achieved so I say vote NO do not accept more of the same but under a different name. Don't allow yourself to be fooled into accepting a crook of shit and believe me thats exactly what AV is.

AV is an improvement on FPTP even if it is not the holy grail of electoral systems. If the nation says no to AV, they can kiss goodbye to any chance of electoral reform for another 20-30 years. The Conservatives knew what they were doing when they proposed AV for a referendum. VOTE YES TO AV.

I disagree absolutely and as such I have voted NO and have done so happily.

Looks like I might change my vote for YES.

There's been some good debate here, and I've been pursuaded otherwise

You know it makes sense! Sadly, a decent public debate has been snuffed out by the negative approach of the No campaign.

Too true

I have to say I am somewhat surprised by the support this AV system is getting in this debate people who read my posts on a regular basis would hopefully know that I'm no idiot, I am actually fully behind reform of the electoral system but by offering AV and only AV David Cameron has attempted the give Nick Clegg the very least he could to keep him on board and thereby keep him in government.

If I thought that AV truely represented an improvement over the FPTP system then I would fully support it and as I have said previously in my opinion it doesn't it FPTP with a different name. Thats actually not just my opinion but the opinion of the Independant Electoral Commission "The Alternative Vote (AV) is very much like First-Past-the-Post (FPTP)."

This whole referendum is a fudge a crook of shit intended only to offer the most modest change to the FPTP system that will make it almost impossible to detect the difference. Electoral reform my arse but if anyone wants to believe it carry on.

Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrates have become so totally overwhelmed with their own personal importance they have missed the biggest opportunity, probably since women were given the vote, to make a serious and meaninful change to the electoral system in this country. Without Nick Clegg the Conservatives could not survive in power and for David Cameron power is everything Nick Clegg should have used this to ensure the referendum was on the AV+ System that would have been the real and meaningful change people want in this country. Nick Clegg should have walked away from David Cameron and brought his government down in the process but he didn't he fully accepted the political ideology of the Tories and given them free reign for a vote on AV, sorry guys this is very much about Nick Clegg his weakness above all else.

For those interested AV+ according to the Electoral Commission is

The Alternative Vote Plus (AV+) was invented by the 1998 Independent Commission on the Voting System, commonly known as the Jenkins Commission. The Commission was asked to recommend a voting system that fulfilled (or best fulfilled) four criteria:
•The maintenance of a geographical link between MP and constituency
•The need for stable government
•The desire for broad proportionality
•An extension of voter choice

The Commission described the system as a "limited" form of AMS aimed at achieving a balance between the requirements of "broad proportionality" and "stable government".

AV+ was created with the intention of being the alternative to First-Past-the-Post (FPTP) in Labour's promised referendum on the voting system for the House of Commons. The referendum never came and AV+ has, for now, been confined to the parliamentary archives.

AV+ was always the true alternative to FPTP it was always intended to make everyone vote mean something because at least 150 parliamentary seats would be held back and awarded on a proportional basis to ALL votes cast. Yes it would mean redrawing the consitituency boundaries but as the Electoral Commission say;

•Nearly every elector would have at least one vote that would have an effect on the overall election result.
•Parties would have an incentive to campaign across the whole country, and not just in the marginals.
•The final result will be fairer, with parties having a share of MPs based on their support among the electorate, rather than on electoral arithmetic and geographical oddities.
•AV+ will produce majority governments when the voters express a desire for one, but will force them to work together when the electorate choose not to give any one party a clear majority.
•Tactical voting is no longer necessary.

Thats the true electoral reform that I think the majority of people want will be achieved so I say vote NO do not accept more of the same but under a different name. Don't allow yourself to be fooled into accepting a crook of shit and believe me thats exactly what AV is.

Completely agree with everything you say there Castle.

Especially this bit - Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrates have become so totally overwhelmed with their own personal importance they have missed the biggest opportunity, probably since women were given the vote, to make a serious and meaninful change to the electoral system in this country.

I will also vote No.

Voting Yes.
FPTP favours a two party system, which results in both Labour and the Conservatives constantly waiting for the other to f**k up before walking into power, happy to collect 34% of the vote but claim 100% of the power.
It results in zero change whatsoever.

Most people voting no just don't understand AV. Or they don't like Nick Clegg. That's just pathetic. Base AV on it's own merit, not on some wanker who everyone would've forgotten about in 15 years.
All 3 major parties use it to elect their own leader, so why isn't it good enough to use on a national scale?

No, AV isn't perfect, but it's far better than FPTP. Too many wasted votes, and it allows MPs be elected with a mere 30% of the vote. Meaning 70% of people didn't want them there.

It doesn't support the BNP or radical parties. That's bullshit propaganda.

If we vote no on AV, we vote no on electoral reform. They'll assume the country doesn't want it and we;ll be stuck with a broken, outdated method for the nest 50 years or more.

I voted No

The only people that want a NO vote are the politicians who are in staunch Labour or Conservative seats with an under 50% 'majority'. You shouldnt be voting on central Govt personalities - you should be voting on whether it's a good or bad thing.
I think AV is a better process / system than FPTP.

My thoughts exactly, too many on both sides politicised it

"Wouldn't it be great to piss Cameron off"

"Lets crush Clegg's only hope"

etc.

This isn't Right V Left, it's fair vs unfair. AV makes your MP require 50% of the constituency to want them in one sense or another, whereas now, they only need 25% sometimes. It's a better system and a more honest approach. AV will lose, which is sad because I truly believe in it.

Voted yes.
The way I see it, its just wrong that MP's can be elected on such low percentages as it is now.
While AV isn't the best we could want, it certainly is better than FPTP and goes someway to ensuring MP's have more support in their constituency than 30% or whatever.

Sorry, I was wrong. For some reason I thought Germany used it. Australia I'd the only big nation who use it. And its been working well for them!

Sorry Lass but it hasn't worked well in fact it has been a disaster as no one likes the new set up as the one with the most votes does not get elected so voting reached an all time low. Which then forced the government to make voting compulsory even if it meant you go and spoil your voting slip. Its a DISASTER