People article re poss QPR points deduction

If they thought they were in real danger wouldn't they have stopped playing the guy?

If they thought they were in real danger wouldn't they have stopped playing the guy?

I dont understand it all but apparently the charges only relate to the first 6 games of this season for whatever reason

If they thought they were in real danger wouldn't they have stopped playing the guy?

surely if they stopped playing him , that would show they know they are guilty.
Personally i think it will be a heavy fine or pts deduction which puts them 7th , therby not causing chaos for the playoffs .

They'd appeal though still causing a problem,

I think it'll be a fine, if it was anything else the hearing would have happened by now.

They'd appeal though still causing a problem,

I think it'll be a fine, if it was anything else the hearing would have happened by now.

true , the FA are damned if they do or damned if they don't , there will be a court case from qpr or 3rd/7th place

I think that the whole case could actually open up a whole can of worms not only in this country but football as a whole and it is interesting to note that the barrister appointed by QPR is one of the very top human rights bods in the UK. The eligibility of Faurlin is not in question and the first six games thing is a red herring, especially given that he also played a large chunk f last season. It is the involvement of a third party and the ownership of his 'economic rights', which is where the human rights issue in my view could come into question, which frankly shoves a large one up FIFA. And with regards to Juve, Christ ths s not in the same league at all. Juve were caught bang to rights for bribing referees in order to win football matches, a charge which if it was my club I would be thoroughly ashamed of and would have ceased supporting them.

But again I come back to the timing of this story, which appeared in one tabloid, and not a very good one as standards go either. Now if there was real substance to this story don't you think that papers like the NOTW would have run it in their later editions, I mean not even the People's stable mate bothered to run with it. Just poor and lazy shit stirring from a useless hack who would like to run with a story whereby he would get guaranteed print or months to come. Nah, non-starter, and as I said before such 'insider' leaks would be viewed as sub-judicial which could make the whole process collapse.

Whatever punishment "IF ANY" QPR get handed down the club has a right of appeal and that appeal must be submitted within I believe 14 days of the club being informed. The FA would then has to set up a panel to hear the appeal and that would take a few weeks at best although I believe the FA would pull out all the stops to get the matter dealt with as quickly as possible.

One thing for me is a certainty and that is if QPR are found guilty of using or attempting to use an unlicensed agent they WILL absolutely be deducted 10 points. To bring this charge the FA have IMO evidence that this did happen and the language coming out of QPR about not Intentionally doing anything wrong is as good as admitting guilt. Since the FA have taken responsibility for agents operating in England they have published a list of "Agents" who are unlicensed as far as the FA are concerned. I have actually seen a copy of the document and when it was first published Mark Aizlewood was on it but thats another thing, each club in England & Wales was given a copy and each club has the access codes to go online at the FA to check the lastest updated list. Any club now being found guilty therefore has no defense ask Luton Town who were the first club to be found guilty under the new regulations resulting in a 10 point deduction.

If QPR are found guilty minus 10 points and you can put money on it.

As regards 3rd party ownership of players clubs are actually allowed to sign players in this situation but the documents submitted on registering the player must include FULL disclosure of who the 3rd party is and what agreement is in place to buy out the 3rd party interest. Any agreement must be completed in FULL within the term of the contract and ALL monies must be paid directly to the FA who will complete the payment.

It appears that the matter of 3rd partry ownership only came to light when the player signed a contract extension I think in October, I think at that time the player had appeared 6 times for QPR. If the club (QPR) had withheld details of 3rd party ownership in the original contract under FL rules that would nullify his registration and make him ineligible to play. FL rules are that any club playing and unregistered player will have 3 points deducted for each game the player appeared in. If 3rd party ownership is proven and the details are not included in the contract expect an 18 point deduction.

By far the most serious charge is the one regarding submitting false documentation after the FA Compliance Unit requested further information. If QPR are found guilty of this expect any form of punishment upto and including relegation as FA rules state that disciplinary panels can hand out ANY punishment it deems fit.

That could include allowing QPR to be promoted an then immediately relegated it would then be a matter of the PL deciding if it only relegates 2 clubs allowing those to be replaced by the 2nd placed team in the Championship plus the playoff winners. If anyone doubts the FA have the balls to do it just ask Swindon Town they have been on the smelly end of the stick.

May 6th is going to be a very interesting day and not just for clubs in the Championship but also the team 3rd from bottom of the PL.

The human rights claim is a spurious one at best. If that's the best defence Paladini has...

The whole sub judice issue hasn't stopped QPR spinning within their local media.

The fact is, nobody knows precisely what the false documentation charge refers to. If, as rumoured, that charge relates to the FA having told QPR to buy out the third party, Paladini gave false documents claiming that had happened, that would show clear and unarguable evidence that Paladini deliberately covered up events. In which case, expecting leniency when you;'ve been given the chance to correct things would be foolish.

Tis all very interesting,

Just had a text from a friend whos dad is a QPR fan, and he`s worried!!!!!!!!! seriously worried.

And wasnt it the People newspaper that published the revelations about Swindon.

DWQPR, I don't believe shoving a large one up FIFA is going to help your club's cause

I think that the whole case could actually open up a whole can of worms not only in this country but football as a whole and it is interesting to note that the barrister appointed by QPR is one of the very top human rights bods in the UK. The eligibility of Faurlin is not in question and the first six games thing is a red herring, especially given that he also played a large chunk f last season. It is the involvement of a third party and the ownership of his 'economic rights', which is where the human rights issue in my view could come into question, which frankly shoves a large one up FIFA. And with regards to Juve, Christ ths s not in the same league at all. Juve were caught bang to rights for bribing referees in order to win football matches, a charge which if it was my club I would be thoroughly ashamed of and would have ceased supporting them.

But again I come back to the timing of this story, which appeared in one tabloid, and not a very good one as standards go either. Now if there was real substance to this story don't you think that papers like the NOTW would have run it in their later editions, I mean not even the People's stable mate bothered to run with it. Just poor and lazy shit stirring from a useless hack who would like to run with a story whereby he would get guaranteed print or months to come. Nah, non-starter, and as I said before such 'insider' leaks would be viewed as sub-judicial which could make the whole process collapse.

I don't doubt you when you say QPR have employed a barrister who is an expert in Human Rights legislation but on the basis the FA have set up an independant tribunal where is Chairman is a QC and expert in Football Rules & Regulations relating to player contracts well the HR angle is IMO no more than a Hail Mary and will fail. I'm now even more convinced then ever that QPR are deep in the brown smelly stuff if that is their defence.

I mentioned Juventus earlier because you said QPR are prepared to bury the FA in months of litigation if they are prevented from being promoted to the PL. Juventus had just won Serie A in Italy but were still relegated stopped from taking part in the PL decisions which cost them millions but they took no legal action against the Italian FA because to do so would have resulted in FIFA suspending the club from ALL activity in football.

Do you really think that QPR would risk losing their FL status and having to apply to the lowest level of the English pyramid system, I really don't think so and believe me any rhetoric about doing it is just that.

At the end of the day QPR are innocent until such time they are proven guilty but I absolutely believe that if they are found guilty the FA will bring out the barbed stick and beat the club with it. BIG TIME

Actually, castle, it's the other way around.

The FA, based upon their information, have levelled charges against QPR.

It's up to QPR to respond to those charges - if QPR kept shtum and said "prove it", I think we know what the result would be.

Actually, castle, it's the other way around.

The FA, based upon their information, have levelled charges against QPR.

It's up to QPR to respond to those charges - if QPR kept shtum and said "prove it", I think we know what the result would be.

What you have said does makes sense but this is football and believe me when the FA submitted the 7 charges against QPR the club had 2 options accept the charges or request a personal hearing. In football and trust me on this silence would be considered as an admission of guilt.

The club know and understand this which is why it has decided to try and defend it's position.

I don't think the FA will have the balls to deduct points due to the total chaos it will cause as outlined in The People article. Just a fine IMO

What about the chaos for the FA if QPR go up with no points deductions and the resulting actions for the 3rd placed team going to court over these circumstances?

thing is though merlin if they go up with no deductions everything goes on as normal i.e playoffs.The F.A would then face the appeals buisiness next season and probably squirm out of it in their typical anti welsh way.

I think if the Fa were hoping this matter goes away then the People newspaper may of put a spanner in their works.
Interesting to see Carl's comments and wonder whether his optimism was based on his inside information on this matter ?

Absolutely no direct quotes as usual.

All old re hashed lines we heard 2 months ago & the implications for the F.A. alone are enough to realise a fine is the only option.

The Sunday People the very newspaper that brought us the potential blockbuster signings for QPR of Zinedine Zidane & Luis Figo!! Yawnnnn!


Fine will suffice & nothing will be affected.

It should definitely be points if we had done the same you and Warnock would be playing holly hell, I would be very worried if I was you...........

They won't get a point deduction, it'll be a fine.

I said that but now I'm not so sure....

Carl is not known for publishing comments/articles that are wholly incorrect, so I am of the opinion that there MUST be something in the air and the Championships top 7 sides (and 3rd in particular) will be watching with great interest....

Let's hope it's NOT us by getting 2nd place outright and being the ONLY assured side for the Premiership KO in August and then we can let the 'legals' sort it all out immune from its effects!!

Does anybody know the 7 charges? Can't seek them getting off all 7. I still feel sorry for the genuine fan, but as a club us, more than anyone know what damage a dodgy chairman (pr) can do.

Excellent thread this and it does seem as though QPR are in a bit of a hole. I really can't see where the Human Rights thing is going, as the HRA only states that their must be a "right to a fair trial in administrative proceedings"

Providing the FL give QPR a fair hearing and follow their own internal disaplinary proceedures, then the matter will be decided on the evidence avaiable and it would seem hard for them to prove that their Human Rights had been breached.

I noted that the Football League programme seemed pretty certain that the Tevez precedent would be followed because the FL had backed themselves into a corner with the timing of their decision.

I have to say I feel the same, that QPR will be promoted but receive a heavy fine and the thrid place club (only) will have the oppotunity to chase QPR through the courts for compensation, which in the case of Tevez was £15m (I think?) IF they are not the winners of the play-off competition.

I think people are focusing on the wrong thing here, the Human rights/third party is somewhat irrelevant. QPR may be found guilty of that charge and the FL have set a precedent with a fine in the West Ham case (although we know that they paid out about £25 million to Sheff Utd to keep that away from the courts). However this is only one charge of seven, the two biggest concerns i would have would if i was a QPR fan would be these.

1) Playing an ineligible player. FL rules are published as follows: BREACH OF CONDITIONS OF REGISTRATION

40.1 Failure to comply with any of the conditions relating to a registration will render the Player ineligible to play for the Club concerned as not being a Registered Player.

40.2 Any Club playing an unregistered Player in a League Match may have three points deducted from its score and/or be liable to such other penalty as the Board may decide.

The FL informed QPR there was an issue with the players registration and requested them to sort it out within a specific deadline, it appears that they did this, however when the paperwork arrived it highlighted issues with the third party ownership and the agent. When this came to light and clarification was asked for by the FL new documents appeared that seem to correct the errors, however it was discovered that the documents were false. So the player could not be registered hence why the FL are only citing a six game non registration on this charge. If they are found guilty then the published punishment is an 18 point deduction.This then raises the next major issue.

2) Falsification Of FL documentation: FL rules are published as follows: 74. INVESTIGATIONS

74.1 The League shall have the power, and will exercise such power through the Executive, to investigate any of the following:

74.1.1 alleged breaches of any of these Regulations; and/or

74.1.2 any complaint or allegation of financial or other irregularity; and/or

74.1.3 misconduct by any Club, Agent, Official or Player.

QPR have been charged with misconduct as an official of the club apparently amended or lied on an official FL registration document to cover up a known rule violation. The Penalty for this is limitless, from a simple fine to expulsion from the FL and everything in-between. If they are found guilty of this charge which in my opinion is by the far the most serious, the should fully expect a heavy fine, points deduction or even relegation.

The other thing everyone is going on about is the problems it will cause with the appeals, lawsuits etc. Again another thing that will need to be considered is that under published FL guidelines: APPEALS

80.1 A party may only appeal against an order of the FDC on the grounds that either:

80.1.1 based on findings of fact made, the order of the FDC is obviously wrong; and/or

80.1.2 there has been a serious irregularity in the conduct of the proceedings before the FDC; and/or

You can only appeal against FACT or if someone messed up technically at the proceedings, if the FACTS are known prior to the hearing they will not and cannot change, therefor there is no case for appeal. You can appeal if you deem the punishment to great for the the crime, however in at least one of the charges the punishment has already been prescribed (18 points for fielding a non registered player), there would only be grey area around the falsification of documents.

It would be shame for QPR not to be promoted they have earned it and have played some great football this season, i also would feel for their fans who showed again yesterday how passionate they are for their club. However for those who think this is a minor complication that can be just swept under the carpet with a fine, think about this.

If they are found guilty and only fine QPR and they are promoted, whoever finishes third so be it Vincent Tan, Delia Smith, John Majeski or whoever, is going to take the FL to court and all the ammunition they need to win the case is published on the FL website. The compensation they would expect would be the value of the promotion an estimated £70 million, additionally if the seventh placed side is within 18 points of QPR, another lawsuit will ensue for the same estimated value, could the FL gamble on a £150 millions lawsuit?? It could bankrupt them

Some difficult decisions will need to be made and again in my opinion after reading the rules and regulations a couple of times, i think QPR will find themselves in the playoffs, i just hope they win.

I would be very worried if I was you...........

I'm really not.

Naturally something hanging over a club on the verge of promotion would bother anyone but I have heard enough good things from legal people, Neil Warnock, newspapers, bookies that all point to a fine so that's good enough for me.

I'm more worried about missing The only way is Essex tonight if I'm honest

Good write up, as this is your first post I expect you have another username.

Let's win our remaining 3 games and see where we are. Would hate to be promoted via a court case.

I think people are focusing on the wrong thing here, the Human rights/third party is somewhat irrelevant. QPR may be found guilty of that charge and the FL have set a precedent with a fine in the West Ham case (although we know that they paid out about £25 million to Sheff Utd to keep that away from the courts). However this is only one charge of seven, the two biggest concerns i would have would if i was a QPR fan would be these.

1) Playing an ineligible player. FL rules are published as follows: BREACH OF CONDITIONS OF REGISTRATION

40.1 Failure to comply with any of the conditions relating to a registration will render the Player ineligible to play for the Club concerned as not being a Registered Player.

40.2 Any Club playing an unregistered Player in a League Match may have three points deducted from its score and/or be liable to such other penalty as the Board may decide.

The FL informed QPR there was an issue with the players registration and requested them to sort it out within a specific deadline, it appears that they did this, however when the paperwork arrived it highlighted issues with the third party ownership and the agent. When this came to light and clarification was asked for by the FL new documents appeared that seem to correct the errors, however it was discovered that the documents were false. So the player could not be registered hence why the FL are only citing a six game non registration on this charge. If they are found guilty then the published punishment is an 18 point deduction.This then raises the next major issue.

2) Falsification Of FL documentation: FL rules are published as follows: 74. INVESTIGATIONS

74.1 The League shall have the power, and will exercise such power through the Executive, to investigate any of the following:

74.1.1 alleged breaches of any of these Regulations; and/or

74.1.2 any complaint or allegation of financial or other irregularity; and/or

74.1.3 misconduct by any Club, Agent, Official or Player.

QPR have been charged with misconduct as an official of the club apparently amended or lied on an official FL registration document to cover up a known rule violation. The Penalty for this is limitless, from a simple fine to expulsion from the FL and everything in-between. If they are found guilty of this charge which in my opinion is by the far the most serious, the should fully expect a heavy fine, points deduction or even relegation.

The other thing everyone is going on about is the problems it will cause with the appeals, lawsuits etc. Again another thing that will need to be considered is that under published FL guidelines: APPEALS

80.1 A party may only appeal against an order of the FDC on the grounds that either:

80.1.1 based on findings of fact made, the order of the FDC is obviously wrong; and/or

80.1.2 there has been a serious irregularity in the conduct of the proceedings before the FDC; and/or

You can only appeal against FACT or if someone messed up technically at the proceedings, if the FACTS are known prior to the hearing they will not and cannot change, therefor there is no case for appeal. You can appeal if you deem the punishment to great for the the crime, however in at least one of the charges the punishment has already been prescribed (18 points for fielding a non registered player), there would only be grey area around the falsification of documents.

It would be shame for QPR not to be promoted they have earned it and have played some great football this season, i also would feel for their fans who showed again yesterday how passionate they are for their club. However for those who think this is a minor complication that can be just swept under the carpet with a fine, think about this.

If they are found guilty and only fine QPR and they are promoted, whoever finishes third so be it Vincent Tan, Delia Smith, John Majeski or whoever, is going to take the FL to court and all the ammunition they need to win the case is published on the FL website. The compensation they would expect would be the value of the promotion an estimated £70 million, additionally if the seventh placed side is within 18 points of QPR, another lawsuit will ensue for the same estimated value, could the FL gamble on a £150 millions lawsuit?? It could bankrupt them

Some difficult decisions will need to be made and again in my opinion after reading the rules and regulations a couple of times, i think QPR will find themselves in the playoffs, i just hope they win.

The 1927club an interesting post, but just a few questions why if the player was ineligible for 6 games this season was he not ineligible for all the games he played last season?

Surely on a matter of this seriousness the FL would have to be retrospective and consider deducting 3 points for every game last season to?

That's the problem I have with points deduction on this matter because any team affected by a massive possible points deduction from last season (i.e. the relegated clubs) could then open up their own legal claims, if points were deducted for this season only.

Also why would the 3rd placed club sue the Football League and not QPR? Sheffield United sued West Ham not the Premier League as WHU were the ones who broke the rules not the governing body who simply adjudicated on the matter.

First post so hope i came across OK.

As i understand it, last year, he was registered OK and the third party ownership had not come to light, so they may get an increased fine but no more.

This year he was not registered correctly they were given time to correct this, in their attempts to resolve the issue the other discrepancies came to light. When QPR admitted to the third party ownership they were then allowed to register the player, this was after six games of the season, hence why they are pursuing them for six games only.

This is my understanding anyway

First post so hope i came across OK.

As i understand it, last year, he was registered OK and the third party ownership had not come to light, so they may get an increased fine but no more.

This year he was not registered correctly they were given time to correct this, in their attempts to resolve the issue the other discrepancies came to light. When QPR admitted to the third party ownership they were then allowed to register the player, this was after six games of the season, hence why they are pursuing them for six games only.

This is my understanding anyway

But that still wouldn't explain why he was not ineligible for last season. Surely the whole third party ownership thing is central to why he is potentially ineligible for those 6 games?

So logically if the FL believe he was ineligible for 6 games this season then he has to be ineligible for ALL of last season. As far as I can gather from the likes of Castle the bodged attempt to register him this season (the dodgy documents) are being dealt with seperately under other charges.

As i said previously it is not about the third party, it's about registration of players. The issues are separate and should be treated as such

As i said previously it is not about the third party, it's about registration of players. The issues are separate and should be treated as such

So you can register a player with false documentation (because the previous season's must have been) provided the FL don't pick it up?

I'm sorry but the 2 situations seem exactly the same to me, the only difference being the FL didn't pick it up the first time.

This is only from recollection rather than hard fact so I may stand corrected, last year I think the player was in loan rather than on a permanent transfer. This would make the difference in registration documentation and where third party would not have come into it.

Tony forgot to answer this question from you

"Also why would the 3rd placed club sue the Football League and not QPR? Sheffield United sued West Ham not the Premier League as WHU were the ones who broke the rules not the governing body who simply adjudicated on the matter."

From a legal point of view if the FL find them guilty over player registration then the must enforce the 18 point deduction, otherwise they are in breech of their own rules and why you would sue the FL. You would probably bring a separate case for loss of earnings against QPR, we know the is a precedent already in place for this with WHU v Sheff Utd case.