" HOW QPR SEE IT " SO HERES THE STATE OF PLAY.

John Qpr Bowdler
So heres the state of play. Its a 3 horse race. We need 6 points to gurantee promotion. Only Cardiff and Norwich ( if they win ALL 4 ) can overtake us. Win monday and only need a draw at cardiff to be promoted. If not, win at home to Hull in 9 days time and we are Champions.

no mention of the QPR points deduction then ??

Hull's away form is impressive should be a good game

I cannot see any prospect of a sufficient points deduction to oust them from top 2 spots.

The reason IMO the decision is so late is to see where they are in the league, and then they could deduct some points but not affecting their final top 2 position just so they can be seen to have given QPR some punishment.

John Qpr Bowdler
So heres the state of play. Its a 3 horse race. We need 6 points to gurantee promotion. Only Cardiff and Norwich ( if they win ALL 4 ) can overtake us. Win monday and only need a draw at cardiff to be promoted. If not, win at home to Hull in 9 days time and we are Champions.

No mention of Reading or a possible points deduction then that may comeback to bite him on the backside.

I cannot see any prospect of a sufficient points deduction to oust them from top 2 spots.

The reason IMO the decision is so late is to see where they are in the league, and then they could deduct some points but not affecting their final top 2 position just so they can be seen to have given QPR some punishment.

This lad has it spot on in my opinion.

I cannot see any prospect of a sufficient points deduction to oust them from top 2 spots.

The reason IMO the decision is so late is to see where they are in the league, and then they could deduct some points but not affecting their final top 2 position just so they can be seen to have given QPR some punishment.

QPR are charged with using or attempting to use an unlicensed agent which if found guilty brings a punishment of 10 points deduction. That if applied today would put QPR behind Reading and the very threat of that is why StanQPR has been saying for weeks NW will be going all out to get as many points as possible.

Friday 6th May could very well see the whole promotion issue thrown wide open again.

very odd that the decision is so late in the season though.

If QPR say for example are 10 points clear of 3rd place then they will docked 6 points max in my opinion ??

I thought that the FA were leaving it as late as possible to deduct points so that it would not stop QPR going up, but my other train of thought is that they are leaving it late so as to deduct points to stop them going up, but then again, it's probably my first thought

If QPR say for example are 10 points clear of 3rd place then they will docked 6 points max in my opinion ??

The "Standard " punishment for using an unlicensed agent is a 10 point deduction and if they are found guilty I can see that being applied absolutely no doubt about that. QPR are also facing a more serious allegation regarding the contracts submitted to the FA regarding the player.

FA regulations are that any payment to a club or a players agent MUST be included in the players contract and in the case involving and overseas player, as this is, these monies MUST be paid directly into the FA designated bank account and distributed from there.

I have no doubt QPR are guilty because the language from the club is that is was an honest mistake or there was no deliberate attempt to mislead the FA. This suggests the documents submitted were wrong and if that is the case QPR will be found guilty and the club will be punished.

Is it fair probably not because in the worst case scenario the club could even be deducted so many points they will be relegated, but the only people who suffer in that case are the fans. Imagine how we would feel if it was us thats why I think the best punishment is to give lifetime bans to everyone involved at the club whose fingerprints are on the false documents.

That way QPR,the team and the fans can take their rightful place in the PL but we are dealing with the FA here and if they find the club guilty they wont worry about the fans they will hit the club.

Absolutely no doubt about that.

so you are saying that IF they are found guilty then they WILL suffer a 10 point deduction prior to their home game with Leeds Utd ?

so you are saying that IF they are found guilty then they WILL suffer a 10 point deduction prior to their home game with Leeds Utd ?

Absolutely no doubt in my mind but like I said I think a better punishment will be life bans to those involved like Paliadini who submitted the alledged false documentation.

But we are dealing with the FA and IMO they WILL give a points deduction it's just the way they think.

If QPR say for example are 10 points clear of 3rd place then they will docked 6 points max in my opinion ??

The "Standard " punishment for using an unlicensed agent is a 10 point deduction and if they are found guilty I can see that being applied absolutely no doubt about that. QPR are also facing a more serious allegation regarding the contracts submitted to the FA regarding the player.

FA regulations are that any payment to a club or a players agent MUST be included in the players contract and in the case involving and overseas player, as this is, these monies MUST be paid directly into the FA designated bank account and distributed from there.

I have no doubt QPR are guilty because the language from the club is that is was an honest mistake or there was no deliberate attempt to mislead the FA. This suggests the documents submitted were wrong and if that is the case QPR will be found guilty and the club will be punished.

Is it fair probably not because in the worst case scenario the club could even be deducted so many points they will be relegated, but the only people who suffer in that case are the fans. Imagine how we would feel if it was us thats why I think the best punishment is to give lifetime bans to everyone involved at the club whose fingerprints are on the false documents.

That way QPR,the team and the fans can take their rightful place in the PL but we are dealing with the FA here and if they find the club guilty they wont worry about the fans they will hit the club.

Absolutely no doubt about that.

As a matter of interest Castle do you have a link to the actual wording of the regulations?

If QPR say for example are 10 points clear of 3rd place then they will docked 6 points max in my opinion ??

The "Standard " punishment for using an unlicensed agent is a 10 point deduction and if they are found guilty I can see that being applied absolutely no doubt about that. QPR are also facing a more serious allegation regarding the contracts submitted to the FA regarding the player.

FA regulations are that any payment to a club or a players agent MUST be included in the players contract and in the case involving and overseas player, as this is, these monies MUST be paid directly into the FA designated bank account and distributed from there.

I have no doubt QPR are guilty because the language from the club is that is was an honest mistake or there was no deliberate attempt to mislead the FA. This suggests the documents submitted were wrong and if that is the case QPR will be found guilty and the club will be punished.

Is it fair probably not because in the worst case scenario the club could even be deducted so many points they will be relegated, but the only people who suffer in that case are the fans. Imagine how we would feel if it was us thats why I think the best punishment is to give lifetime bans to everyone involved at the club whose fingerprints are on the false documents.

That way QPR,the team and the fans can take their rightful place in the PL but we are dealing with the FA here and if they find the club guilty they wont worry about the fans they will hit the club.

Absolutely no doubt about that.

As a matter of interest Castle do you have a link to the actual wording of the regulations?

Tony;

Here are the FA regulations on 3rd Party Ownership of Players

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/~/media/File ... 0FINAL.pdf

These regulations were put in place in June 2009 and are still current. They should be looked at in conjunction with other FA regulations relating to player registration and registered agents where QPR are charged with submitting false documents and using or attempting to use an unlicensed agent. These regulations can be found at thefa.com

QPR are charged with all sorts here abd precedent for using an unlicensed agent is now a 10 point deduction, submitting false documents to cover up 3rd party ownership, failing to pay all monies into the fa bank account and submitting a false player contract are untested in this respect so it could be anything from a fine, fine and point deduction and bans to the individuals involved.

But the FA have set up a compliance unit because they are determined to have transparancy and to maintain a level playing field so I really don't think a guilty verdict will see a rap across the knuckles.

If QPR are found guilty of course.

Wouldnt they just start in the Prem -10 points ?

Tony;

Here are the FA regulations on 3rd Party Ownership of Players

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/~/media/File ... 0FINAL.pdf

These regulations were put in place in June 2009 and are still current. They should be looked at in conjunction with other FA regulations relating to player registration and registered agents where QPR are charged with submitting false documents and using or attempting to use an unlicensed agent. These regulations can be found at thefa.com

QPR are charged with all sorts here abd precedent for using an unlicensed agent is now a 10 point deduction, submitting false documents to cover up 3rd party ownership, failing to pay all monies into the fa bank account and submitting a false player contract are untested in this respect so it could be anything from a fine, fine and point deduction and bans to the individuals involved.

But the FA have set up a compliance unit because they are determined to have transparancy and to maintain a level playing field so I really don't think a guilty verdict will see a rap across the knuckles.

If QPR are found guilty of course.

Thanks for that Castle and to use the legal term "Prima facie" (at first sight) QPR would seem to have seriously breached the regulations.

However, I was talking to someone who explained that while the 'FA' Rules apply to 'all clubs' (i.e. Premier League, Football League, Non-league and even Sunday league teams ) when it comes to implementing a sanction or punishment the waters become very murky.

If QPR were a PL team then they could be deducted points, as any team who copied the Tevez/West Ham debacle would now because the PL rules allow for that. But QPR are a 'Football League' team and their rules do-not directly refer to 'Third Party Ownership' in the same way as the FA or PL rules do.

This is the loophole under which QPR could escape a points deduction (certainly one big enough to affect their promotion to the PL) because FL rules/punishments must take precedent when deciding the size or nature of the punishment for breaching the FA rules.

Therefore it is hugely debatable whether the FL has the power to deduct points because their own rules do-not allow them to do so they can only impose a fine.

I'm not saying the above is correct but having checked I can't find any regulation which allows the FL to deduct points for the breaches that QPR seemingly are guilty of.

I cannot see any prospect of a sufficient points deduction to oust them from top 2 spots.

The reason IMO the decision is so late is to see where they are in the league, and then they could deduct some points but not affecting their final top 2 position just so they can be seen to have given QPR some punishment.

This lad has it spot on in my opinion.

The reason its being left so late is that qpr will have no time left to appeal the judgement.
If they were docked 10 points and it dropped them into the playoffs they would have no real choice other than to compete in the play offs to try and gain promotion.
I am also sure the football league would make it clear that an appeal or legal challenge could result in a harsher penalty if the appeal is rejected.
I am sure that because the offence was committed over a long period that there will be some form of points deduction bearing in mind that clubs are getting 3 point deductions for fielding ineligible players in one game.

Thanks for that Castle and to use the legal term "Prima facie" (at first sight) QPR would seem to have seriously breached the regulations.

However, I was talking to someone who explained that while the 'FA' Rules apply to 'all clubs' (i.e. Premier League, Football League, Non-league and even Sunday league teams ) when it comes to implementing a sanction or punishment the waters become very murky.

If QPR were a PL team then they could be deducted points, as any team who copied the Tevez/West Ham debacle would now because the PL rules allow for that. But QPR are a 'Football League' team and their rules do-not directly refer to 'Third Party Ownership' in the same way as the FA or PL rules do.

This is the loophole under which QPR could escape a points deduction (certainly one big enough to affect their promotion to the PL) because FL rules/punishments must take precedent when deciding the size or nature of the punishment for breaching the FA rules.

Therefore it is hugely debatable whether the FL has the power to deduct points because their own rules do-not allow them to do so they can only impose a fine.

I'm not saying the above is correct but having checked I can't find any regulation which allows the FL to deduct points for the breaches that QPR seemingly are guilty of.

Tony;

I agree QPR are a FL club at the moment but so were Luton Town when the FA deducted 10 points from them when they were found guilty of using an unregistered agent a few years back. In that case the FL then hit them with a further 20 point deduction relating to their failure to exit administration.

As I see this if QPR are found guilty of submitting false registration documents FA rules clearly state that will effectively cancel the players registration. If that is the case the FL are free to impose their own sanction because the player will then be ineligible to play in ANY league match. The FL sanction for that is a 3 point deduction for every game in which the player appeared, I think Hereford Utd were done under this rules a few weeks ago.

http://www.football-league.co.uk/regula ... 2125731#38

The relevent FL rules are 40.1 & 40.2 and if you look closely at FA regulations they say that in bringing sanction against a club they can consider the rules of a relevent competition. So yes the FA can very much consider FL rules when deciding on any punishment should the club be found guilty.

As I say QPR could well be in serious trouble IF they are found guilty I have a lot of experience of football administration and I really believe thats how the FA will see this.

If you remember the FA left the Tevez situation to the PL and they messed up and the whole thing dragged on for years, I don't think the FA will mess up if they find QPR guilty. I really think they will bring out the big barbed stick to beat them with

they could buy themselves out.The FA are a bit empty at the moment so any extra boost will do them well.Hopefully they'll come down on them hard,pitty you don't see them going for man utd only wrexham and so on.

I cannot see any prospect of a sufficient points deduction to oust them from top 2 spots.

The reason IMO the decision is so late is to see where they are in the league, and then they could deduct some points but not affecting their final top 2 position just so they can be seen to have given QPR some punishment.

This lad has it spot on in my opinion.

The reason its being left so late is that qpr will have no time left to appeal the judgement.
If they were docked 10 points and it dropped them into the playoffs they would have no real choice other than to compete in the play offs to try and gain promotion.
I am also sure the football league would make it clear that an appeal or legal challenge could result in a harsher penalty if the appeal is rejected.
I am sure that because the offence was committed over a long period that there will be some form of points deduction bearing in mind that clubs are getting 3 point deductions for fielding ineligible players in one game.

I think we are talking a points deduction here the QPR case sort of echoes the Tevez case there was no points deduction on that occasion but an expensive lengthy court case which resulted in a hefty fine and compensation to Sheffield united who funnily enough were managed at the time by that man Warnock

I have nothing against QPR as a club or their fans personally,Warnock is a f*cking tosser and that about as far as it goes..
For Warnock, the shoe is very much on the other foot now (and despite what he claims, it is on the contary, VERY similar to the Tevez scandal, 3rd party ownership) and for all the fuss he made regarding Tevez-gate, I would love to see a 10 point deduction or more for the obivous breach of rules.
QPR and Warnock can say there was "nothing intentional" etc etc but at the end of the day, they have broken the rules and deserve to be punished regardless of their league position. We were slammed by all corners of football for Bellamy coming here having not broken a single FA rule.

Do the crime, do the time. end of.

PS Sorry Stan.

He wasnt an unlicenced agent though was he.

He was licenced with FIFA, but only UNREGISTERED with the EFA?

Personally I see only a fine as Stan has already said. I cant see them deducting any points what so ever.

He wasnt an unlicenced agent though was he.

He was licenced with FIFA, but only UNREGISTERED with the EFA?

Personally I see only a fine as Stan has already said. I cant see them deducting any points what so ever.

To be a licenced agent in England to you to pass an examination and the guy named in the case has not passed the examination, he was also listed by the FA as unregistered and the list was circulated to all clubs including QPR. To represent players in England ALL agents must pass the test and that has been agreed with FIFA.

guarantee if we'd done the same every club in the championship would be calling for us to get slammed with a points deduction.

I can see the fa deducting enough to put them into the playoffs.

if we win our last 4 games could anyone really see the fa deducting them enough points to make us champions (thats why there leaving it so late) i think not

Tony;

I agree QPR are a FL club at the moment but so were Luton Town when the FA deducted 10 points from them when they were found guilty of using an unregistered agent a few years back. In that case the FL then hit them with a further 20 point deduction relating to their failure to exit administration.

As I see this if QPR are found guilty of submitting false registration documents FA rules clearly state that will effectively cancel the players registration. If that is the case the FL are free to impose their own sanction because the player will then be ineligible to play in ANY league match. The FL sanction for that is a 3 point deduction for every game in which the player appeared, I think Hereford Utd were done under this rules a few weeks ago.

http://www.football-league.co.uk/regula ... 2125731#38

The relevent FL rules are 40.1 & 40.2 and if you look closely at FA regulations they say that in bringing sanction against a club they can consider the rules of a relevent competition. So yes the FA can very much consider FL rules when deciding on any punishment should the club be found guilty.

As I say QPR could well be in serious trouble IF they are found guilty I have a lot of experience of football administration and I really believe thats how the FA will see this.

If you remember the FA left the Tevez situation to the PL and they messed up and the whole thing dragged on for years, I don't think the FA will mess up if they find QPR guilty. I really think they will bring out the big barbed stick to beat them with

Castle I was referring to third party ownership in my reply but you seem to have given an answer on whether the player’s registration was legitimate. Therefore the references to Luton Town and Hereford United are not really direct comparisons to the point I made.

That said you are quite right to bring up the subject of legitimate registration as I think QPR could be facing such a charge if they are found to have concealed documentation, although whether that has happened is unclear.

However, I would totally accept your conclusion that if they were found guilty then it would seem very likely they would have to have points deducted because a precedent has been set with previous clubs.

Of course this will all come down to whether there was a third party arrangement in place and how it was registered with the Football League.

People who say its late in the day should have a look at the swindon case.
they won a play off final against sunderland.
they were then found guilty of serious charges and were reergated to division 3,on appeal that was
they were relergated to division 2.
so the FA can be preety ruthless

no mention of the QPR points deduction then ??

they wont get deducted mart, the fa are a bunch of money grabbing, no bollux faggots it will be a 2-3 million fine, bang on

IF they are found guilty & there is a precedent of 10 points deductions for the same offence, the FA in my opinion will apply the letter of the law. If a 10 points deduction would put another team into automatic or a play off positions, the FA could face legal action from that team if the show QPR mercy. Ater all the Premier League promises £90m+, worth a legal flutter if the FA are weak!